Steve Thomas
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Posts posted by Steve Thomas
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Remind me never to go to Iowa.
I might want to walk my dog or go bird watching or some other kind of constitutional activity.
The police have the right to stop and beat me over the head with a club or shoot me with tear gas. I could just turn violent at the drop of a hat, you know.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/politics/congress-republican-reaction-trump-church/index.html
"Sen. Chuck Grassley, the most senior Republican in the Senate, told CNN that peaceful protesters have the right to demonstrate but he didn't know the extent to which the "police might expect violence from some of the people -- maybe 5% of the people -- and that could be a potential problem, the answer would be, it's OK" to clear them out with force.
Asked about the fact that the protesters were acting peacefully, Grassley said: "It's all assumed to be peaceful until someone that's got a terrorist activity or a rioting activity, you don't know that until it happens. So I don't know if they could have known that.""
So much for the 1st Amendment.
That's "The Killing of America".
Steve Thomas
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I just read that the Republicans have figured out to stop all this violence we're seeing.
Give billionaires a tax cut.
Steve Thomas
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I never dreamed this would go global.
What was it we used to chant back in the 60's? "The Whole World is Watching" "The Whole World is Watching".
"Thousands now chanting “black lives matter” in front of the US Embassy in Berlin #GeorgeFloyd""Global Protests for George Floyd Staged in Berlin, London and Toronto
https://variety.com/2020/politics/global/george-floyd-protests-berlin-toronto-london-black-lives-matter-1234621350/Steve Thomas
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There is an interesting dichotomy shaping up I think.
July 4th is a national holiday celebrating freedom and independence.
Donald Trump wants to change it to a glorification of the military, at the same time he wants to deploy the military into American cities.
Pentagon considering military flyovers, bands for July 4 celebration
Pentagon Puts Military Police on Standby to Head to Minneapolis
https://www.thedailybeast.com/pentagon-puts-military-police-on-standby-to-head-to-minneapolis
No good is going to come of this. You watch.
Steve Thomas
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2 hours ago, John Butler said:
If I have missed some of the mentions of Harvey Lee Oswald, please add to the record.
John,
Probably the most famous one is the cable that was sent out in the evening of 11/22/63.
6.There have been references on several threads about a cable sent on the evening of 11/22 from Fort Sam Houston to Strike Command, McDill AFB in Florida. In the cable, reference was made to information obtained by Detective Don Stringfellow of the Dallas Police Department. I managed to locate a copy of the cable, which you can find here:
https://archive.org/details/nsia-ArmyIntelligenceJFK
I think this is in the Weisberg collection.
L.D. Stringfellow was a Detective in the Dallas Police Department's Special Service Bureau.
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf
1) Note the reference in this military intelligence file's cable to Harvey Lee Oswald
Steve Thomas
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1 hour ago, John Butler said:
He was paid the same salary as the factory director. For what reason would the Soviets do that?
John,
Propaganda.
Steve Thomas
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Huffingtom Post 05/25/2020
"President Donald Trump’s senior economic adviser, Kevin Hassett, presented a cold view of the U.S. economic system Sunday, referring to American workers as “human capital stock.”
In a Sunday interview on CNN, Hassett predicted that business would pick up again soon.
“Our human capital stock is ready to get back to work,” he said...",
That just about says it all, doesn't it?
Gives me warm and fuzzy feelings all over.
Steve Thomas
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2 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:
But it is clear to me there is something to Harvey & Lee. I believe now that there was indeed some sort of organized government Oswald Project that likely dated back several years and quite possibly a decade or more... It's impossible for me to believe that the use of "Harvey Lee Oswald" on a government document post-assassination would be a simple clerical error, yet I think it was meant to be explained away as a simple error should any questions ever arise.
Denny
9. OSWALD CASE-REFERENCE IS MADE TO THE ATTACHED C
COPY OF AN INCOMING STATE DEPARTMENT TELEGRAM DATED 19 DECEMBER 1963, IN CONNECTION WITH THE HARVEY LEE OSWALD CASE
To: Chief/Research Branch/SRS/OS Date: December 30, 1963
From: M.D. Stevens
Subject: Oswald Case
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Reference is made to the attached copy of an incoming State Department telegram dated 19 December 1963, in conjunction with the Harvey Lee Oswald case (see Tab A). This telegram concerns a Mr. and Mrs. DeMohrenschildt who appear to have lived in Dallas, Texas, but on 2 June 1963 went to Haiti and have not since returned to the United States.
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(Tab A is not included with this memo)
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The Harvey Lee Oswald name can't be attributed to a simple inversion, or a mistake, or a typo. It appears in too many places. You have it showing up in CIA files, Secret Service Files, Military Intelligence files, Army and Navy files, FBI files, and local law enforcement files. I believe that a dossier on a Harvey Lee Oswald was circulated or shared across many different intelligence agencies. Now when that dossier was started, and by whom and for what purpose, are open questions.
I agree with Peter Dales Scott when he wrote, "
This "Harvey Lee Oswald" reference is no accidental anomaly, but part of an organized pattern, widely dispersed, that suggests an official intelligence deception (and possible dual filing system). Serial 02296-E of 27 Jun 60 is the earliest Harvey Lee Oswald reference we now possess of over two dozen, from the files of ONI, FBI, CIA, Army Intelligence, the Secret Service, the Mexican Secret Police (DFS), and the Dallas Police.9
9 . For a discussion and incomplete list, see Peter Dale Scott, Deep Politics Two, 80, 85-89, 118-19, 142-49.
Steve Thomas
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Reference is made to the attached copy of an incoming State Department telegram dated 19 December 1963, in conjunction with the Harvey Lee Oswald case (see Tab A). This telegram concerns a Mr. and Mrs. DeMohrenschildt who appear to have lived in Dallas, Texas, but on 2 June 1963 went to Haiti and have not since returned to the United States.
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2 hours ago, John Butler said:
Thanks Steve,
I'll look into this later when I am not so sugar deprived. When the blood sugar is low is often the time of confusion and mistakes. This is what I am looking for.
John,
9. Commission Document 498 - SS Rowley Memorandum of 13 Mar 1964 Forwarding Reports
pp. 37-38.
The Report is titled, Harvey Lee Oswald.
SS Protective Research Report by Kenneth J. Weisman of an interview with Billy Joe Lord, who traveled to Europe with Oswald aboard the SS Marion Lykes. Lord constantly refers to “Harvey Lee Oswald” whom he found to be “unfriendly, standoffish, and that the two of them “didn't hit off”. (p. 38.)
The Report was written by Weisman on February 28, 1964 and approved by a Jose (?)(Benavides?)(sic?) on March 2, 1964.
The name, Harvey Lee Oswald is used seven times in the same document.
Steve Thomas
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1 hour ago, John Butler said:
30 references to Harvey Lee Oswald. Do these references have dates attached. And, if possible could you share those 30 incidents with folks. I just posted 7 references found in the Hardy and Lee.PDF.
The rest would be nice to have.
John,
To me, this is one of the more interesting ones:
27. MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD: SUBJECT - HARVEY LEE OSWALD
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=18291&search="Harvey_Lee+Oswald"#relPageId=2&tab=page
The author of this memorandum is unknown. The subject of the memo is Harvey Lee Oswald. It looks like it dates from 1972.
“The DC/CI (counterintelligence) advised me that the Director had relayed via the DDP (Deputy Director of Plans) the injunction that the Agency was not, under any circumstances, to make inquiries or ask questions of any source or defector about Oswald.”
1. Sheriff Decker's file on the assassination, given to the Warren Commission list the assailant's name as "Harvey Lee Oswald"
(12H51) (CE 5323) Deposition of Sheriff Decker dark brown heavy folder with a label on the outside: Harvey Lee Oswald.
Steve Thomas
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1 hour ago, John Butler said:
30 references to Harvey Lee Oswald. Do these references have dates attached. And, if possible could you share those 30 incidents with folks. I just posted 7 references found in the Hardy and Lee.PDF.
The rest would be nice to have.
John,
You might want to look at this Forum thread:
Harvey Lee Oswald
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/24392-harvey-lee-oswald/
Steve Thomas
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46 minutes ago, Denny Zartman said:
Kittrell also makes an interesting observation that an American passing through Minsk probably wouldn't immediately be offered a job. If the information in the earlier posts of this thread is true and Oswald was the only American staying in Minsk as opposed to passing through as a tourist, that would also be noteworthy.
Denny,
Oswald wasn't "passing through" Minsk.
He was sent there.
From, “Lee Harvey Oswald in His Own Words: The "Historic Diary"”
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/historicdiary.htm
Jan 4 (1960). “I am called to passsport office and finally given a Soviet document, not the soviet citizenship as I so wanted, only a Residence document, not even for foreigners but a paper called, "for those without citizenship." Still I am happy. The official says they are sending me to the city of "Minsk."
Jan. 11." I visit Minsk radio factory where I shall work."
Steve Thomas
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16 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:
There are a number of other references to “Harvey Lee Oswald” in U.S. documents. Since the juxtaposition of two first names seems possible in such a large database, this all may have little real significance, but it is interesting how often it occurs.
Jim,
I've found 30 of them so far.
Steve Thomas
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Jeremy,
You wrote, "
Steve,
The word гражданин here means citizen in the sense of someone who is permitted to live in a particular place. The document refers to Oswald's legal residence in the Soviet Union, and does not imply that he possessed Soviet citizenship in the usual sense of the word.
A pedant writes: гражданин is pronounced 'grazh-da-nin', not 'grach-da-nin' ('zh' as in Dr Zhivago)."
Thanks. I had that letter mixed up with the X that would be pronounced like :Loch Ness Monster, or the German word, Achtung!
I have a lot to learn.
The word "Citizen" is defined as, a native or naturalized member of a state or nation who owes allegiance to its government and is entitled to its protection (distinguished from alien).
In my mind, a "Citizen" conveys something stronger than just permitting someone to live there. Just granting Oswald the right to live in the USSR was the whole purpose for his "non-citizen alien identity card".
But, like you say, maybe I've been reading too much into it.
Steve Thomas
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8 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:
Steve,
We’ve been talking about this for a while, but I’m just beginning to appreciate how weird it is. If we assume that the reversing of “Lee Harvey” and “Harvey Lee” was just an error by Soviet bureaucrats, then must we also assume that the formal rejection of “Lee Harvey Oswald’s” Russian citizenship request was made not only a year and a half after he left the Soviet Union, but also nearly two weeks after he was shot dead in Dallas police headquarters by Jack Ruby?
If we assume that references to “Lee Harvey” and “Harvey Lee” are, in fact, references to two different people in the USSR in the early 1960s, what are we to make of that? Does it take us back to Michael Eddowes’ theory that “Khrushchev Killed Kennedy” and that the man killed by Jack Ruby was a Russian agent sent to the U.S. in 1961?
Can you make any more sense of this?
Jim,
The statement from Dobrynin in December, 1963 is only an explanation for the Soviet's rejection of Oswald's application. Like I said, we don't have the actual application, nor any paperwork relating to the Soviet's rejection.
It's interesting, I said that the negative character reference memo from the Minsk Radio factory in CE 985, p. 433 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&relPageId=447&search=%22Harvey_Lee%20Oswald%22 is dated December 11, 1961 and refers to “Citizen” Harvey Lee Oswald.
But that's not how the Russian rejection letter on page 434 reads. It calls him, "Oswald Lee Harvey".
in both places.
It looks like either the translator, or the typist screwed up; or the transposing of names was deliberate.
In all places in the character reference, it uses the Russian for for "Citizen" when it refers to Oswald.
(Гражданин).
(That's pronounced, Graach/da/neen)
Why they would be calling him a Citizen in 1961, and then explaining in 1963 why they rejected his citizenship application is beyond me. Maybe I'm missing something.
Steve Thomas
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30 minutes ago, John Butler said:
Does anyone know why the Russians were using the name Harvey Lee Oswald? They did so more than once so this is probably not an error.
John,
You've asked the $64,000 question.
Steve Thomas
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1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:
The Russian-speaking LHO WAS in Russia on both 7/15/61 and 1/1/60, though on the ‘61 date it is a little murky whether he was in Minsk or Moscow.
That does seem weird. Is it possible that these are, again, translation issues? Do you know if there was any kind of distinction between Soviet “citizens” and “comrades?”
I can't remember. Did Classic Oswald® specifically say that he never applied for Soviet or Russian citizenship?Jim,
To me, there is a very clear distinction between Comrade and Citizen. The Soviets took this very seriously, especially during the height of the Cold War.
There are others who do not think the distinction is very great.
Here's a portion of the Soviet's explanation for rejecting the citizenship application of Harvey Lee Oswald.
We do not have Oswald's original citizenship application, nor the Soviet's written rejection of that application.
This is only an "explanation" of why some Oswald's application was rejected.
In this letter, it says that Harvey Lee Oswald's request for USSR Citizenship was denied. It doesn't say when he applied for that citizenship, but the negative character reference memo from the Minsk Radio factory in CE 985, p. 433 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&relPageId=447&search=%22Harvey_Lee%20Oswald%22 is dated December 11, 1961 and refers to “Citizen” Harvey Lee Oswald.
(We're back to the surly and non-social Oswald here)
As early as February, 1961, Oswald was trying to get back to the U.S. The U.S. told him he would have to appear at the U.S. Embassy in Moscow in person. He didn't have permission to travel to Moscow, but in July, he showed up there and appeared at the Embassy on July 8th. He told the Embassy staff there that he had never actually applied for Soviet Citizenship, but was living in Russia as a non-resident alien and showed them his non-citizen alien identity card as proof.
In his letter of resignation addressed to the Director of the Minsk Plant dated May 18, 1962, LHO identified himself as, “The Locksmith of the Experimental Plant.”
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317#relPageId=516&tab=page
p. 486
In his employee workbook, LHO gave his job title as “Adjuster”
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317#relPageId=95&tab=page
p. 65.
So far, I've seen him called an Assembler, a Regulator, an Adjuster, and a Locksmith.
You asked, "You do point out some interesting anomalies in the Russian data. Do you have a theory to explain this?"
I think the Harvey Lee Oswald persona was created long before we knew it to be, but by who or why or how, I don't know.
Steve Thomas
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3 hours ago, Bill Simpich said:
The center of his argument, which I have not yet fully studied, is that "(Edwin) Walker joined other disgruntled former military officers and oversaw a plot to assassinate a large number of people in power positions in the government and in industry.
Bill,
Did you run across the name J. Carlin Brandt?
From Weisberg's collection:
"4. J. CARLIN BRANDT, chief, accounting clerk for Mobil Oil, moved from 601 N. Ewing St. in 1963 to 223 S. Ewing, Jack Ruby’s apartment house. Brandt is the name of the prime suspect in the Minute Man recruitment effort in the Matamorros bar six weeks before the assassination who told Alan Dale’s informant that the Minute Men had a contract to kill JFK. The latter Brandt - one John Brandt, combination gunsmith and Minute Man from the Ray Brantley circle in Dallas, a former employee of Brantley’s, dropped out of directory listings after the assassination, and Penn Jones advises via Mary now that John Brandt is living covertly at 2960 Colfing Green, Farmers Branch, Texas, another widely recognized residential area of Dallas, which was a hot-bed of anti-castro speeches and activities prior to the assassination. At the time of the killing, JOHN 3RANDT was living at 801 Rindie, Irving. He was given a job by LING-TEMPCO-VAUGHT, than disappeared about a year ago, ostensibly for an operation, and went into his present hiding in Farmers Branch."
Mac Wallace went to work for LTV too.
Steve Thomas
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2 hours ago, John Butler said:
I thought it very interesting that the Oswald (I assume was Harvey) talking about working in an electronics factory in MInsk where he assembled electronic parts and little pieces of metal. It's as if he caught himself and did not want to speak about what he actually was assembling. Could it have been radar equipment sufficient to easily track a U2? Could it be part of a guidance system that could shoot down a U2?
John,
For some more funny business going on...
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=444&tab=page
On page 430 of CE 985, there is a Certificate dated July 15, 1961 that “Comrade”, Lee Harvey Oswald was employed as an assembler at the Minsk Radio Plant. The date January 1, 1960 is typed on the Certificate.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=447&tab=page
On page 433 of that CE Exhibit (CE 985), it says that “Citizen” Harvey Lee Oswald was hired as a regulator at the Minsk Radio Plant on January 13, 1960.
"Comrade" Lee Harvey Oswald is hired January 1, 1960 as an assembler.
Two weeks later, "Citizen" Harvey Lee Oswald is hired on January 13, 1960 as a regulator.
If I have this right, a regulator was someone connected with quality control.
It wasn't until 10 days after that first Certificate is dated, on January 11, 1960, that Lee H. Oswald submitted an application for employment at the Minsk Radio and TV plant. On his application, he wrote that his parents were dead, and he had no brothers or sisters. (pp. 426-427).
Maybe he was appointed or hired as of January 1st, but didn't officially fill out an application until January 11th.
PS: Lee Harvey Oswald maintained until the day he died that he had not applied for citizenship in the USSR, and he was right.
It was Harvey Lee Oswald who was denied citizenship.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=7986&relPageId=111&search=Dobrynin_December 11, 1963
Funny business going on over there in that ol' Russia.
Steve Thomas
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This is a direct quote from Donald Trump:
"We're going after Virginia, with your crazy governor. We're going after Virginia.
They want to take your Second Amendment away. You'll have nobody guarding your potatoes."
The Governor told him to stop taking the hydroxychloroquine.
Steve Thomas
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58 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:
It is almost funny to think how Boris and Natasha, I mean Lee HARVEY Oswald and Marina Prusakova, may well have been hiding from each other their knowledge of each other’s languages. What language was their pillow talk? I wish I could have more confidence in Marina’s testimony.
Jim,
Boris and Natasha... that's funny 🙂
You know, I've often wondered if LHO knew, or suspected Marina of being a "honey pot: agent, and brought her over here anyway. Did he leave her alone to carry out her own agenda?
It seems like they spent an awful lot of time apart from each other in the fall of 1962 once they got back to the Unites States.. He completely disappears for two weeks, and she's flitting around between the Mellers and the Fords and what not.
Steve Thomas
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56 minutes ago, James Norwood said:
What do you think Offstein may have been hiding?
James,
I don't know, but the idea that somebody who spent a stretch in the Army Security Agency, and was stationed in a location that intercepted Russian and East German military traffic at the height of the Cold War didn't know what microdots were, just strains my credulity.
Steve Thomas
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33 minutes ago, James Norwood said:
John,
Offstein still struggled after a year of intensive Russian language study at the Monterey institute.James,
I would only add a note of caution about that. To the best of my knowledge, we only have Ofstein's word on that, and I think I've picked up a couple of instances where he was less than truthful shall we say; such as not remembering Crigler's last name, even after visiting in their respective homes on at least three different occasions.
Steve Thomas
in both places.
(
The Killing Of America
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
https://www.thedailybeast.com/pentagon-tries-to-retreat-from-trumps-call-to-dominate-protests
“These Pentagon officials added that it was the White House, not the Defense Department, that was pushing for active military might in the streets. A senior DOD official said it was the White House that requested military helicopters fly low over protesters in D.C. and that it was part of a broader request from the Trump team that the national guard ramp up its presence in the city. The Associated Press was the first to report about the military flyover being connected to a request from President Trump.
Additionally, the president has pressed aides and Pentagon officials for graphic details on the kind of armored vehicles, military units, aircraft, and even “tanks” that they could potentially send to maintain order in U.S. areas rocked by protests and rioting, according to two people familiar with recent discussions.”
“In rare occurrences in this country has civil unrest resulted in the deployment of active duty military personnel. It has caused huge challenges because those individuals aren’t trained and equipped to deal with quelling civil disorder. And it can cause operational confusion,” said John Cohen, the former deputy under secretary for intelligence and analysis at the Department of Homeland Security. “The military also operates under very different rules of engagement than police. Their job is basically to identify an enemy, engage that enemy and potentially kill that enemy. That’s not necessarily that philosophy you want individuals operating under when they are in the situation we’re in today.”
Steve Thomas