Steve Thomas

2 hours ago, Ed LeDoux said:

Hosty was not in the interrogation when Fritz started with Oz. Hosty makes it appear like he was there the whole time.

Oswald was brought in for questioning at 2:20

Hosty didn't arrive at DPD Headquarters until 3:15.

(almost an hour later)

Mr. BALL. You said just a few minutes, what did you mean by that, 15, 20, 25?
Mr. FRITZ. It would be pretty hard to guess at a time like that because we weren't even quitting for lunch so I don't even know, time didn't mean much right at that time. For a few minutes, you would think 30 or 40 minutes the first time.
Mr. BALL. Thirty or forty minutes?
Mr. FRITZ. I am guessing at that time.

Mr. BALL. Did you ask him anything about his address or did he volunteer the address?
Mr. FRITZ. He volunteered the address at Beckley?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. FRITZ. Well, I will tell you, whether we asked him or told him one, he never did deny it, he never did deny the Beckley Street address at all. The only thing was he didn't know whether it was north or south.
Mr. BALL. Did you ask him whether it was north or south?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, but he didn't know.

Oswald wasn't asked where he lived. He was presented with a fact, and didn't deny it.

I can see a situation where Oswald was told he lived on Beckley, and Oswald shrugging and saying, "If you say so".

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/fritz1.htm

Mr. BALL. How long a time did you sit with Oswald and question him this first time?
Mr. FRITZ. The first time, not but a few minutes.
Mr. BALL. That was the time Hosty and Bookhout were there?
Mr. FRITZ. That is right. But sometimes when I would leave the office to do something else, it is hard to imagine how many things we had happening at the one time or how many different officers we had doing different things without seeing it but we were terribly busy.
I had called all my officers back on duty and had every one of them assigned to something, so going back and forth kept me pretty busy running back and forth at the time of questioning.
I don't know when I would leave, I suppose Mr. Bookhout and Mr. Hosty asked him a few questions, but I don't believe they questioned him a great deal while I was gone.

Who knows what Bookhout and Hosty talked to Oswald about while Fritz was out the room?... the weather? the price of rice in China?

Steve Thomas

2 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

One detective for each block on massive crowd Main street?

Joe,

On December 11, 1963, Lieutenant Erich Kaminsky wrote a memo to Captain Gannaway of the Special Service Bureau.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190029/m1/1/

In that memo he wrote,

“Sir: On November 22, 1963, the following Special Service men where(sic) assigned to work the Presidential motorcade. All the men had assignments on Main St. The following is a list of the men and the locations they worked:

B.K. Carroll 1100 block Main

K.E. Lyon 1700 block Main (who also wound up  in that car carrying Oswald back from the Theater).

H.R. Arnold was supposed to have been in the 700 block per Kaminsky's memo. No report of his duties on the 22^nd are in the DPD Archives, and he did not testify to the WC.

When Bob Carroll testified to the WC on April 3, 1964, he told them:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/carroll.htm

Mr. BALL. What job was assigned to you that day?
Mr. CARROLL. I was assigned to the 700 block of Main Street.
Mr. BALL. Along the curb - did you stand along the sidewalk?
Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir; to be there, and, of course, there were uniform officers also assigned in that block, but I think they had one detective for each block.

The 700 block in Carroll's WC testimony is not a mistake, because he told WC Counsel Joseph Ball that this was three to four blocks from the intersection of Main and Houston.

Whatever happened to H.R. Armold, and who took over the 1100 block when Carroll moved over to the 700's?

Or, did Carroll abandon his post?

Steve Thomas

14 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Manpower to place men on the building rooftops even at that number should never have been a problem.

Agent Hill says they couldn't do this because of manpower shortages?

Heck, you could easily find an extra 100 men from the local police and sheriff departments and even other agencies.

Same with men on the ground scanning all the open higher building windows with binoculars starting a few minutes before and up until JFK passed under these?

 

Joe,

I, myself, am quite fond of this one:

Lt. Erich Kaminsky of the DPD's Special Service Bureau assigned 14 Detectives from that Bureau as security along Main St.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190029/m1/1/

(One for each block mind you, where crowds were 7 - 10 deep in some places).

Bob Carroll (he who escorted Oswald back downtown from the Texas Theater) was one of them.

What was Carroll doing while JFK was being shot?

He was sitting in a bar.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/carroll.htm

Mr. CARROLL. I had walked around to a tavern around the corner. I was walking down the street and I passed this person I know and I stepped in this tavern to speak to him and I heard it - they turned on the TV just as I walked in the door and I heard it on the TV set.

Gotta love it.

Steve Thomas

On 1/29/2020 at 3:17 AM, Anthony Mugan said:

 On balance the odds go for a photo taken later in 1962, but it remains an open question in my mind.

Deleted

Steve Thomas

On 1/29/2020 at 6:14 PM, Ty Carpenter said:

Any guesses what the "dark rumour" may be?

Ty,

Johnson references this "dark rumor" on pp. 5 and 6 of his answers to W. Tracy Parnell here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jBlEUC1sWxs1MzBXWPnqTZNfDWZKcH0U/view

Frankly, I can't make heads or tails of it. Something to with black mob violence and race wars and 1921 Tulsa race riots.

(But, it's only a rumor mind you. Johnson says that, "Dark rumor" is "descriptive enough".).

etc.

Steve Thomas

From DPF's Portal tab posted 1/23/20:

"We just wanted to let everyone know that we will be moving the forum to new forum software. It is a big move and we want to do it right so we don't lose any images or attachments. So, if the forum is locked down and unaccesible this will be what is happening. We will try to be as quick as possible. At the moment we are working behind the scenes setting up the new databases and optimising files so it is not immediate. Sorry for any inconvenience in advance."

Steve Thomas

On 1/26/2020 at 2:59 AM, Andrej Stancak said:

Can anyone answer the point raised by Steve about Lee Oswald himself saying during his very first interrogation  that he had lived at 1026 North Beckley . This statement was captured  by FBI agent James Hosty and written by his own hand on a sheet carrying a DPD banner.

Andrej,

Hosty wasn't present during Oswald's first interrogation.

Oswald was brought in for questioning at 2:20.

The police were dispatched to 1026 N. Beckley at 2:40.

The police arrived at Beckley at 3:00.

Hosty entered Fritz's office at 3:15.

I'm not sure why it took the police 20 minutes to get from downtown Dallas to N. Beckley, but that's another story.

Fritz told the Warren Commission that before he went in to talk to Oswald, and officer, whose name he could not remember, stopped him in the hall and told him that Oswald lived on N. Beckley. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/fritz1.htm Later in his testimony, he said to the Commission,

"Mr. BALL. Was there anything said about where he lived?
Mr. FRITZ. Where he lived? Right at that time?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. FRITZ. Mr. FRITZ. I am sure I had no way of asking him where he lived but I am not too sure about that--just how quick he told me because he corrected me, I thought he lived in Irving and he told me he didn't live in Irving. He lived on Beckley as the officer had told me outside.

That part puzzles me. What did Fritz mean when he said, "I am sure I had no way of asking him where he lived"?

That doesn't make any sense.

And, if he didn't "have any way of asking Oswald where he lived", how could Oswald have corrected him?

This last line of questioning occurs after Hosty has entered the room, but the police had already been dispatched to Beckley some 35 minutes earlier.

Steve Thomas

2 hours ago, Ed LeDoux said:

But I believe the holster is on the floor at dpd.

https://servimg.com/view/17602890/1355

Ah, Okay. I see it now.

Thanks.

Steve Thomas

On 1/27/2020 at 12:02 AM, Ed LeDoux said:

Do you think Oswald walked all the streets of Oak Cliff looking to spot For Rent signs? Laughable to imagine Oswald going from Beckley all the way to Marsalis

Lee didnt pack up his belongings Monday and head into Oak Cliff praying he found a rental... wandering around with his sea bag and valise.

Perhaps you'll thrill us with forensic evidence from the scene or any pictures of a holster in the tiny room....

Deleted

Steve Thomas

SAN FRANCISCO — Gov. Jerry Brown is questioning a Sotheby's selloff of rare JFK papers tied to his late father, Gov. Edmund G. "Pat" Brown, and wonders why they aren't part of the public archives.

"I'd sure like to know why the seller is claiming anonymity — and why these documents aren't at the UC Berkeley archives with the rest of my father's papers,’’ Brown told POLITICO in a statement Friday.

Sotheby’s New York officials said that they estimate the lot of material, which includes original letters from President John F. Kennedy and from Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy and President Lyndon Baines Johnson, could bring in as much as $30,000 at a Monday auction. Additional materials include an original AP wire sent directly to the governor's office on Nov. 22, 1963 at 12:39 EST announcing Kennedy had been shot.

https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2020/01/24/jerry-brown-concerned-by-sothebys-auction-of-his-dads-rare-jfk-papers-1255369

Steve Thomas

On 1/24/2020 at 2:42 PM, Dan Troyer said:

  A search of that address brought up FBI document record number: 124-10198-10304.

FBI was checking leads Santo Trafficante  was trying to purchase the Pan Am Exterminating business. 

Deleted

Steve Thomas

9 minutes ago, David Boylan said:

Interesting doc on the CAC and the coordination between the Army and CIA. Shackley, Chief, talked in glowing terms of the two Army officers assigned to work with him. That would be Bradley Ayers and Edward Roderick.

Shackley also wanted one Seal team to train the exile Cubans.

David,

The Colonel Haig he speaks of; that's Alexander Haig isn't it?

Steve Thomas

On 1/24/2020 at 12:09 PM, Steve Thomas said:

deleted

Steve Thomas

 

 

deleted

Steve Thomas

2 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Not exactly a correction - just an observation...  that's Ken Croy on the right with Markham I believe - at the Tippit scene....

Did each of the men have 2 hats in case they were to be working Traffic?  If not, why would he be wearing white?

Ken Croy was a Reserve Police Sergeant...  despite it being mentioned there was paperwork that shows which assignments were given to all participants, Croy is not mentioned...
 

David,

Croy told the WC that he was in uniform that day (the 22nd), so it could very well be him in the picture you posted.

As a Sergeant in the Reserves, I don't know what Division he had been assigned to.

I was going from memory from a long time ago when I was trying to identify the policemen in the Three Tramps photos.

I remembered what Greg Burnham said in this Education Forum post from 2011:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/17707-hat-badge-man/

<QUOTE>

"I have not confirmed this, but I was told by J Harrison (now deceased) formerly of the Dallas Police Department, that "white hats"

It appears that the City of Dallas Police Department's, JFK Collection link http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/index.html  is no longer valid.

You are now instructed to go to the Portal of Texas History. Access to the Police Department's records can be found here:

https://texashistory.unt.edu/explore/collections/JFKAM/browse/?start=0

Steve Thomas

1 hour ago, Ed LeDoux said:

We would also not have at least four totally different stories about how the address was obtained.

Ed,

Hosty told the WC that as early as November 1st, he knew that LHO worked at the TSBD, but that he didn't live at 2515 W. 5th St. in Irving. Why, if he was so hot to locate Oswald, didn't he tail him home from work one day in those three weeks before 11/22?

I once wrote an essay on How Did the Police First Learn of 1026 N. Beckley?

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/2331-how-did-the-police-first-learn-of-1026-n-beckley/

I concluded that the information most likely came from military intelligence.

My guess these days is that the policeman who told Fritz out in the hall that Oswald lived there was B.L. Senkel, who rode in the Pilot Car with George Lumpkin and George Whitmeyer, and who was sent to 1026 N. Beckley at 2:40 PM by Captain Fritz. I believe that there was a file or a dossier of a Harvey Lee Oswald in MI files, and that's why the police were asking for a person by that name when they got to Beckley as Earlene Roberts twice said.

Steve Thomas

2 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

The photo brings up more questions.  Who is the cop in the cap to sunglasses right, our left?  Who is the cop to sunglasses to his left, in the Motorcycle Helmet?  Why a Motorcycle Cop at a limited conclave of this sort inside Parkland at this time? 

Ron,

The policeman's white cap tells me he was a member of the Traffic Division.

Larry Sneed's No More Silence contains interviews with a number of the motorcycle cops. Maybe one of them talks about standing guard in a Parkland hallway.

Logicically, it would seem that the motorcycle cop is one of the motorcycle jockeys in the parade escort who arrived d at Parkland before anyone else, and were stationed in the hallways to restrict access to places like the trauma rooms.

Steve Thomas

On 1/20/2020 at 4:36 AM, Steve Thomas said:

If he had "credentials", how could he be "unidentified?

Steve Thomas

 

Secret Service: On the Knoll and Beyond:

“I pulled my pistol from my holster, and I thought, this is silly, I don't know who I am looking for, and I put it back. Just as I did, he showed me that he was a Secret Service agent”. Warren Commission Counsel, Wesley Liebeler asked Officer Smith if he had accosted this man. Joe Smith replied, “Well, he saw me coming with my pistol and right away he showed me who he was”

“Perhaps Officer Smith’s recollection could have been tainted by his “physical and emotional strain”, except for two things. First, he said that the Secret Service agent “showed me that he was a Secret Service agent”. The question arises, had Officer Smith ever seen Secret Service credentials? As a matter of fact, Smith told author Anthony Summers that he had. As he said to Summers, “The man, this character produced credentials from his hip pocket which showed him to be Secret Service. I have seen those credentials before, and they satisfied me and the deputy sheriff.”

Well, "who was he"?

Smith, "I dunno"

Steve Thomas

13 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Actually I was thinking of the Special Activities Staff.....as related to Des Fitzgerald's Cuba assignment circa 1963

Larry,

Thanks for the info.

I really don't know much about the CIA.

Steve Thomas

1 hour ago, David Josephs said:

Vince - the man in the glasses - 45, 6'2", 185-190, Grey hair.... ???

This person looks like none of these.  Also says the Mystery FBI man never showed credentials....

How/when does this man become CIA ??

 

David,

He doesn't.

Berger was talking about two different people.

Steve Thomas

Matt,

I don't think it's the same person as the unidentified Parkland Hospital man.. The ears are all wrong, and I don't think the jawline is the same.

Steve Thomas

3 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Steve, could you refresh me on how we know this was Army training at Fort Benning?  Perhaps David could help but I would have assumed it was CIA special training for SAS either at JMWAVE or at the farm/Langley?  

Larry,

We don't.

Or, I should more correctly say, I don't. That was presumptuous on my part. I realized that just as I hit the send button.

(Damn computers).

I've got it in my head that the people who killed JFK were trained snipers, and who does training better than the military?

When I see CIA, I think more in terms of hit and run commando type raids, or sometimes long term insertion teams that were tasked with gathering intel. CIA assassinations seemed to be more up close and personal like poisons and car bombs than long range snipers - but I could be wrong.

As an aside, when you use SAS, you're talking about Special Affairs Section, right?

When I see SAS, I have to force myself not to think of British Special Forces.

Steve Thomas

On 1/20/2020 at 7:14 PM, Stu Wexler said:

Any chance we can find out who attended these "training" sessions?  Disturbing to say the least.

Stu,

If you go here"

List of Participants of the Bay of Pigs Invasion

https://cuban-exile.com/doc_026-050/doc0035.html

and start scrolling down through the list of people who were assigned to Fort Benning in Georgia, I think you'll get a pretty good idea.

Steve Thomas

On 1/19/2020 at 1:42 PM, Vince Palamara said:

 

Unidentified male in sunglasses (inside the hospital wearing sunglasses?) that some people want to believe is a Secret Service agent. I do NOT recognize him at all (and I am much aware of what all the agents from the Dallas field office and White House Detail look like):

 

deleted

Steve Thomas

3 hours ago, David Andrews said:

Yeah, but see the Bezos material above.

David,

Stay away from WhatsApp. Avoid it like the plague.

Steve Thomas