Steve Thomas
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“None of us has any idea what Angleton did with the diary while it was in his possession,” Bradlee wrote in his memoir."
The JFK Mistress Gunned Down in Cold Blood
editors' note: This article was updated on at 9:30 a.m. EST, 21 January 2020, to correct the spelling of the names of Wistar Janney and Dovey Johnson Roundtree, and to add further material about the missing diary or diaries.
Steve Thomas
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On 1/17/2020 at 4:31 PM, Greg Kooyman said:
Hi David,
You mention that Alfonso Rodriguez was questioned as to why he showed the Z film during a CIA training class. That is absolutely intriguing to me. Do you have a source you can share where you found this?
Deleted
Steve Thomas
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14 hours ago, Vince Palamara said:
18 H 795: Secret Service agent Andy Berger---writes in his SS report that "AN UNIDENTIFIED CIA AGENT" who had "CREDENTIALS" made himself available at Parkland while JFK was there
Vince,
Did employees of the CIA carry "credentials" identifying them as such?
If he had "credentials", how could he be "unidentified?
Steve Thomas
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On 1/18/2020 at 2:58 PM, Ed LeDoux said:
The rest of the series may help Paul.
Cheers, Ed
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Steve Thomas
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1 hour ago, Joseph McBride said:Letter to the Editor, New York Times, January 16, 2020, protesting the United States' latest assassination:"The administration recently announced that, on orders of the president, the United States had “taken out” (which really means “murdered”) an important military leader of a country with which we were not at war."Benjamin B. FerenczDelray Beach, Fla.
Joseph,
Thanks for this.
I'm glad that somebody is calling it for what it is.
Trump bragged that he could stand in the middle of 5th Ave and shoot somebody and get away with it.
Well, he's done just that.
Steve Thomas
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https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57768&search=YMCA#relPageId=57&tab=page
Letter from J.Edgar Hoover to Deputy Assistant Secretary for Security, Department of State dated February 12, 1964:
“We are endeavoring to identify Lee Harvey Oswald's place of residence during the period from October 19, 1962 when he moved out of the YMCA in Dallas to November 2-3, 1962, when, with his wife, he moved into a furnished apartment at 604 Elsbeth Street, Dallas, Texas.”
The letter is asking that George de Mohrenschildt be re-interviewed concerning what he might know.
Reading through Mary Ferrell’s Chronologies for the month of October, beginning from around October 8 – October 14th. she asks “where does Oswald spend the night?”
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=40390#relPageId=77&tab=page
pp. 77-80.
By greg parker on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 11:33 pmSteve, here is the Taylor interview. Only had a quick read, but my impression is that it needs a deeper look.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57773&search=taylor#relPageId=58&tab=pageMr. TAYLOR. It had to be some time between September and November 15, because my wife and I separated after that. Anyway, at some point during this period, I do remember going to an area in Oak Cliff and looking for Lee. I don't think I found him--at least, not on the occasion I remember. All I had was some vague directions that----
88
Mr. JENNER. From whom?
Mr. TAYLOR. Well, directly from my wife but indirectly I believe that came to her from Mrs. De Mohrenschildt.
Mr. JENNER. Were you requested to seek to locate him?
Mr. TAYLOR. I don't know why I was trying to locate him. I don't remember anything except I remember driving around one area one evening looking for a residence of his on some vague directions. As I say, I don't even remember if it was a residence of the whole family or just of Lee. I went back to this area within the last few weeks and located a building that stuck--or I had a recollection of one building in this area and I went back to the area and found it and gave that information to Agent Yelchek of the FBI. I don't know what he----
Mr. JENNER. What location was that?
Mr. TAYLOR. I gave him the exact street address---but it seems to me like it was---well, the name of the apartment building was the Coz-I-Eight [spelling] C-o-z---I---E-i-g-h-t--apartments, and I thing they were located at 1404 North Beckley. But the address I could be off on; but the name I do remember.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=45#relPageId=148&tab=pageWC testimony of Mrs. Gibson: at 11:00 AM, May 28, 1964 (formerly Alexandra de Mohrenschildt)
(11H138)
Mrs. GIBSON. Yes; I am trying very hard to think of where he stayed. It is such a very vague recollection, so vague it is barely there, that he had a room. But I don't know where.
Mr. JENNER. During this period?
Mrs. GIBSON. During that period; yes.
Mr. JENNER. From the 19th to the 3d?
Mrs. GIBSON. Yes; it is so vague but it is there, that he had a room somewhere. Where I don't know. I just can't think.Mrs. GIBSON. It seems to me that he had a place to live somewhere near where he was working, somewhere easily accessible on foot, to where he was working. (Is she thinking of the YMCA?)
Mr. JENNER. That is your former husband Gary's recollection, and he seemed reasonably confident that you would recall the address.
Mrs. GIBSON. No, no; no idea. Did Gary mention something about one night we were in Oak Cliff and we were looking for some place.
Mr. JENNER. He said you were looking for Oswald?
Mrs. GIBSON. Is that what he said? And we went up and down and up and down and we never found the place. I recall one evening, I don't remember what we were looking for, but I recall this.
Mr. JENNER. You were looking for Oswald?
Mrs. GIBSON. Is that who we were looking for?
Mr. JENNER. No; I----
Mrs. GIBSON. I don't know, I am not sure, but one evening Gary and I were looking for some place, and I don't know where it was. But it was in Oak Cliff. It was right over the river. And we went up and down and back and forth for a good hour looking for this address. And I can't think of where it was, and we never found it. I do remember that. We never found it.
Mr. JENNER. But it had something to do with Oswald?
Mrs. GIBSON. I think it did. I think it had to do with a room that he had over there, but where it was, the address, I don't know. I never knew Oak Cliff very well in the first place.
Mr. JENNER. You say he was now employed and could afford a room?
Mrs. GIBSON. Yes; but I don't know where. I--we couldn't find it wherever it was, because we looked.
Mr. JENNER. But you did have an address at that time?
Mrs. GIBSON. I had an address for something I was looking for. What it was I don't know. If I was looking for him or if I was looking for somebody else, if Gary was looking for somebody, I don't recall. But it could possibly be that it was him that we were looking for. I don't know how Gary thinks I can remember an address, though. I don't.In her Chronologies for October, 1962 (on page 78) Mary Ferrell locates the Coz-I-Eight apartments at 1306.N.Beckley.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=40390#relPageId=78&tab=page
Is it possible that Oswald (or someone posing as Oswald) who applied for PO Box 6225 on November 1, 1963 remembered the apartment complex, but transposed the numbers? He listed his home address as 3610 N. Beckley.https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337065/m1/1/
And is there any significance to that apartment complex?Marina says that after Lee checked out of the YMCA on October 19th, he moved to an apartment, but she didn't know where it was.
Leon Gopadze December 10, 1963 Secret Service interview of Marina. Warren Commission Exhibit 1789.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1139#relPageId=434&tab=page
WC testimony of George de Mohrenschildt at 10:00 AM on April 22, 1964
(9H166)
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/demohr_g.htm
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. That was a little bit later on--when he already moved to Dallas, he already had the job. But now I am trying to recall who moved him from Fort Worth to Dallas, and I think that was Gary Taylor, my ex-son-in-law, and Alex, my daughter. I think they both drove to Fort Worth.
I told them to do so--"Go to Fort Worth and help them, they have no car, they have no money--help them to move."
I think in the meantime Lee found a job at Jaggars, and was looking for a place to live, and found a place to live himself in Oak Cliff, this address which I don't remember now--the first address in Oak Cliff. He had two addresses. I forget the exact address. My wife will remember that.WC testimony of Jeanne de Mohrenschildt taken at 4:45 PM on April 23, 1964.
(9H285)
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=43#relPageId=293&tab=page
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/demohr_j.htm
I said, "For God sakes, if we are to help them, I cannot race to Oak Cliff to help them with this or that"--if she had to go to the doctor. Why wouldn't they take a little place near us, it will be much easier for me to help her.
He had some reasons to live far away.
I don't know if anybody else mentioned that to you. That was everybody's impression. For some particular reason, he moved all the way out.https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672&relPageId=400&search=Bouhe
On November 28, 1963 Bouhe was interviewed by SA John Flanagan about any possible relationship between Jack Ruby and Lee Oswald. In the course of the interview, Bouhe "produced a card on which he kept addresses and this card bore the notation dated November 1, 1963, 602 Elsbeth..."
“Following his residence at the YMCA, he said Oswald secured a room in the Oak Cliff area of Dallas, but he could not recall this address, nor did he have a record of it in his papers. At this point Mr. Bouhe produced a card on which he kept addresses.”
On January 29, 1964 George Bouhe is interviewed by SA Joe Abernathy.
Oswald 201 File, Vol 25 Part 2 of 2 page 28
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=111186&search=YMCA#relPageId=28&tab=page
“Bouhe, in thinking back, recalled that at some time or other, possibly after Oswald left the YMCA, Oswald may have mentioned that he had obtained a room possibly on Madison Street from someone named Carlton. Bouhe checked the current Dallas Telephone Directory and noted that the Madison-Carlton Hotel was listed at 1159 North Madison, Dallas, Texas. Bouhe could furnish no further information concerning the period of Oswald's residence from October 19, 1962 to November 2, 1962.”
WC testimony of George Bouhe March 23, 1964http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/bouhe.htm
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know where he moved when he checked out of the YMCA?
Mr. BOUHE - At some point thereabouts he threw at me when I asked, "Where do you live now?" He gave me, if I recall correctly, a name of the Carlton boarding house on Madison Avenue, but it proved to be wrong.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you tell the FBI that he told you he lived at the Carlton boarding house?
Mr. BOUHE - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - The FBI checked it out and told you subsequently that he had not lived there?
Mr. BOUHE - That's correct. The FBI men went there, and it developed that Oswald told me a lie to send me on a wild goose chase, but the name strikes me somehow; and FBI rechecked this place and said it was a bum steer.
Mr. LIEBELER - As far as you know, the next place that Oswald lived after he moved out of the YMCA was in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas?
Mr. BOUHE - Madison is around the corner from somewhere he ultimately lived.
Lee Harvey Oswald went to work at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall on October 12, 1962. On October 15th, 1962, Oswald would move from a home in Fort Worth, Texas to room 415 at the YMCA in downtown Dallas where he would live from the 15th to the 19th of October. He vacated the YMCA and aside from his employment at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, he was incommunicado from the 19th of October, until the 3rd of November, 1962. Through the Warren Commission testimonies of the Taylors and the de Mohrenschildts, indications are that he was living in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas. On November 3, 1962, Oswald moved his wife and child from a home in Fort Worth into Apartment# 2 at 604 Elsbeth St.He would repeat this process in 1963. On October 3, 1963 Oswald supposedly returned from Mexico and checked into room 601 of the YMCA. He would move from the YMCA to a rooming house at 1026 N. Beckley on October 15th.
Question: How does Lee Oswald know Oak Cliff so well? How would he know about the rooming house on Carlton that he gave to George Bouhe?Oswald apparently lived at Mary Bledsoe's house on N. Marsalis from the 7th to the 14th of October, but I thought what she said was very odd. In her WC testimony, she said,
“Mrs. BLEDSOE - Had his things on his hand and had his bag, but after he paid my $7 he went out---I don't know, I think this YMCA, but I am not supposed to know where,...”
On November 1, 1963 Lee Oswald would apply for Post Office Box 6225. On his PO Box application, he would list 3610 N. Beckley as his home address. Why didn't he give 1026 as his home address?When he applied for the PO Box, did he remember the apartment complex at 1306 and transpose the numbers like he did on the Fair Play for Cuba Committee pamphlets down in New Orleans in August?
Was there something significant in the northern section of Beckley St. that would cause Oswald to go from the YMCA in downtown Dallas to that section of Oak Cliff twice?
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/clark_m.htmMr. CLARK - I think everyone (in the Dallas White Russian Community) was discussing that as to whether or not they should especially when he first came back and all of them asked me and I said "in my opinion he is a defector and you know what he is"
I said "As far as Oswald coming back here you can be assured or bet that when he returned to the United States the FBI has got him tagged and is watching his movements or I would be very much surprised."
Mr. LIEBELER - If they didn't -
Mr. CLARK - If they didn't, I said "You know that they know exactly where he is in town" and I said "I imagine they know who he is contacting because I know enough about the boys in the FBI; they would keep a record."Steve Thomas
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On 1/4/2020 at 3:34 AM, Steve Thomas said:
David,
This is just a guess on my part, but could "Bravo Club" be a reference to a B Company, or Company B?
Larry wrote, "And the Cubans he describes meeting Oswald were not linked to Alpha 66 but most recently to Army training, having just come out of it.”
Steve Thomas
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Steve Thomas
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20 hours ago, David Boylan said:
Steve,
It's interesting that Posada was active Army until 1966.
David,
I'm not so sure now that he was. I've only seen that in one source.
In two other places, I've seen that he was only in the Army from March, 1963 - March, 1964
From March, 1964 to September, 1964, he was unemployed; and then from September, 1964 to ? (CIA documents dated 1965 and 1972), he was listed as a sprayman for the Pan Am Exterminating Co.
See HSCA Segregated CIA Collection, Box 45 PERSONAL RECORD QUESTIONNAIRE for Luis Posada Carriles
pp. 17 and 37.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=23193&search=Carriles#relPageId=17&tab=page
Steve Thomas
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On 1/15/2020 at 9:51 PM, Gene Kelly said:
Paul
I know that Steve likes his colonels, but it’s difficult to ignore the Generals ... LeMay, Lansdale, Cabell (an enthusiastic promoter of the U-2 along with the Dulles Brothers) and Lemnitzer. Those were seriously powerful people, who had an animus and contempt for John Kennedy. And they certainly had the means, motive and opportunity at their disposal. JFK stood in their way for dealing with Cuba, but he was also an obstacle for world-wide policy in Indonesia, Central America, Vietnam, Congo, the Middle East and elsewhere. Castro seems like small potatoes, in comparison, and his subsequent 60-year existence underscores this point. To answer your earlier question, I don't like the notion of a plot within a plot - one which was only "attempted" and intended to point to Cuba - that was highjacked and turned into a real assassination. Its speculative, with no solid evidence, and does not fit Occam’s Razor. Nor do I think that we can easily separate the military players from the CIA officers/operatives … because I think they were (and continue to be) interchangeable. In the 1960's, CIA was primarily a paramilitary organization that carried on covert wars which couldn't otherwise be officially sanctioned. Using military covers provided CIA with capable foot soldiers as well as a conveniently plausible deniability. Allen Dulles (the “Old Man”) and Curt LeMay (a vocal member of the Joint Chiefs) were on a friendly first name basis and exchanged gifts, going back to 1954; all of the suspect operatives (whether in CIA or DOD) took their orders from these senior officials. By 1961-1962, all of them were on their way out of the ordained power structure; but, they still commanded a loyal and capable following. Alpha 66 and DRE, Oswald and Castro, the Mafia Dons and/or the Radical Right, seem rather insignificant scapegoats in comparison.
Gene
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Steve Thomas
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22 minutes ago, Douglas Caddy said:
Satan, the FBI, the Mob – and the forgotten plot to kill Ted Kennedy
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/01/12/fbi-satan-mobplot-kill-ted-kennedy-097180
I was so sorry to read that. Jayne Mansfield was always my hero.
LaVey was also involved with Susan Atkins of Charles Manson fame.
Now, things are starting to get weird.
Steve Thomas
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1 hour ago, Ron Ecker said:
I wouldn't doubt that Trump killed the DOJ's Uranium One investigation (whether there's anything to that "scandal" or not). Can't have anything that might be a bad reflection on Russia (such as taking some of our uranium). It could make Putin mad.
No Ron,
"Something" happened in those 8 hours between threatening to bomb 52 sites (including cultural), and publicly saying that Iran was "standing down" - after they had launched missiles at our bases in Iraq.
Somebody got to Trump. I think Putin is the only one that's got that kind of pull.
Steve Thomas
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Did Putin warn Trump not to destroy Iran?
With the mess they made of Afghanistan, doesn't Russia need a stable Iran to get its Central Asian oil to market?
Is that why Trump backed off?
Steve Thomas
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9 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:
Steve - Funny misprint. Max Gomez is Felix Rodriguez, not Gonzales.
Paul,
Thank you. I kept scratching my head wondering where Felix "Martinez" came from.
Steve Thomas
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2 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:
Even star JMWAVE operative Felix Rodriquez had been sent off to Fort Benning for Army training.
One of the consequences of all this was that a goodly number of very well trained Cuban exiles would go on to become active, sometimes in sanctioned projects and often in very independent actions, across Latin America, and even into SE Asia. Some of them would help fuel the exploding drug trafficking and in new areas of organized crime. As one of them was remarked after a bombing in Miami - the CIA and the United States trained us well, we have lots of skills.
Larry,
I thought I recognized the name, Felix Rodriguez.
On This Day: Che Guevara Executed
“On Oct. 9, 1967, Marxist revolutionary Che Guevara was killed by CIA operatives and members of the Bolivian army.
“On Oct. 8, Bolivian Rangers who had been trained by U.S. Army Special Forces found Ernesto “Che” Guevara, in Churro Ravine, Bolivia. They opened fire, wounding Guevara and killing two of his men.”
“In an interview with the BBC, Felix Rodriquez, a Cuban-American former CIA agent who interrogated Che, described Che’s reaction when Bolivian authorities decided there would be no trial for him, and that he would be executed: “Che turned white … before saying: ‘It’s better this way, I should have died in combat.’”
That article I cited earlier, https://statecraft.org/chapter8.html#F32
goes a lot into how these men went to Laos after Cuba died down.
Laos was really bad.
Steve Thomas
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On 1/4/2020 at 3:34 AM, Steve Thomas said:
David,
Larry wrote, "And the Cubans he describes meeting Oswald were not linked to Alpha 66 but most recently to Army training, having just come out of it.”
This could be the U.S. Army Special Warfare Center (SWC), Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and in particular, one of the 7th Special Forces Groups (SFG's)
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Steve Thomas
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On 1/8/2020 at 5:24 PM, Pat Speer said:
Thanks, Steve. I quoted those reports in a previous post. My question is as to why the Homicide and Robbery people started up interviewing TSBD employees in February, only to stop a few days later. And why some, but not all, of their reports were published by the Warren Commission. I've gotta believe there's a document somewhere in which the WC asked the DPD for help, and explained why this came
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Steve Thomas
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2 hours ago, Pat Speer said:
(If anyone can post the document in which the WC asked the DPD to interview McCully in February it would be appreciated.
Pat,
Mrs. McCully was interviewed by W.E. Potts, Homicide and Robbery Bureau February 18, 1964,
DPD Archives Box 5, Folder# 6, Item# 61.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box5.htm
Mrs. Avery Davis was Interviewed by B.L. Senkel, Homicide and Robbery Bureau February 18, 1964
DPD Archives Box 5, Folder# 6, Item# 64
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box5.htm
Both said they were standing on the front steps. McCully thought the shots came from the arcade. Davis thought they came from the railroad yards. After the shooting, they went back inside.
Both worked for Scott-Foresman. McCully had seen Oswald around. Davis said she never saw him, that he worked for a different company (the TSBD) and that they used different elevators.
McCully tried to leave the TSBD after the shooting, but was stopped by the police.
Steve Thomas
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On 1/6/2020 at 4:26 PM, Daniel Rice said:
"...the southwestern-most window on the sixth floor is similar to the southeast window. The five middle windows seem to give the building an art deco look.
Deleted
Thanks,
Steve Thomas
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1 hour ago, Bart Kamp said:
Bart,
Just speaking architecturally, why do you suppose the SE 6th floor window of the TSBD is so uniquely different from any other window in the building?
Some kind of load bearing purpose maybe? Aesthetically, it doesn't seem to serve any purpose that I can see.
Steve Thomas
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1 hour ago, David Andrews said:
I didn't say any of that. I liked the Plan Lazo stuff you found at the Army Historian site, I was just confused where Lorenz came in. Maybe I wasn't reading it right
David,
No. I said that. You were right. I just threw that in at the last minute. I shouldn't have. I didn't read Nagell's correspondence all the way through.
Steve Thomas
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28 minutes ago, David Andrews said:
Steve, if you read the 'Verdestein' letter in full, you'll see that the designation 'Patsy' is applied to Oswald and Oswald situations uniformly, as a kind of substitution code...
David,
Yes, my reading of the "Patsy" part was specious? spurious? superficial?.
all that stuff.
Steve Thomas
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14 hours ago, David Andrews said:
Larry, who is Nagell referring to as 'Bravo' in the substitution-coded Verdestein/Greenstein letter, if not Alpha?
"Patsy is needed! She is pro-Castor Oiler well-known to Bravo Club.
David,
This is just a guess on my part, but could "Bravo Club" be a reference to a B Company, or Company B?
Larry wrote, "And the Cubans he describes meeting Oswald were not linked to Alpha 66 but most recently to Army training, having just come out of it.”
This could be the U.S. Army Special Warfare Center (SWC), Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and in particular, one of the 7th Special Forces Groups (SFG's)
Special Forces teams ([operational detachment alphas (SF ODAs).
I read about a very interesting case study called "Plan Lazlo" in Columbia in the early 1960;s. I'm just using this as an example. In summary, it said,
" BG (Brigadier General) Yarborough; LTC (Lieutenant Colonel) Little, the U.S. Army Special Warfare Center G-3; and COL Russell, the 7th Special Forces Group commander, went to Colombia in February 1962, to study the violence problem and evaluate the effectiveness of their counterinsurgency effort. Yarborough recommended that relationships between military and police be delineated, that military and intelligence services at all levels collaborate more, and that intelligence and counterintelligence programs be coordinated and standardized. These were deemed critical to a national counterinsurgency plan. The HUK counterinsurgency basic concept of operations (in the Philippines) was used by the team. To conduct antiviolence planning, identify requirements, and coordinate operations, Yarborough recommended that MTTs (mobile training teams) —psychological warfare, civic action, air support, and intelligence—and five Special Forces ODAs be sent to work with the Colombian military. The Special Warfare Center recommendations became part of Ambassador Freeman’s antiviolence plan and helped the Colombian generals preparing Plan Lazo.
https://www.soc.mil/ARSOF_History/articles/v2n4_plan_lazo_page_1.html
"Patsy" could be Marita Lorentz.
Steve Thomas
Earliest copies of Zapruder film?
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Army plane? What army plane?
Who in the Secret Service would have told Zapruder to send anything by way of the Army? Who in the Army would Zapruder have talked to to send anything on an Army plane?
Steve Thomas