Steve Thomas

Ron, That happened to me once; but in that case, another member deliberately changed what I had originally written, so that he could go back ans refute me. It wasn't even a case of being a misquote. I was furious. Steve Thomas

Jim, It's kind of interesting. Both Marvin Buhk and E.E. Taylor said in their after-action reports (DPD Archives Box 2, Folder# 7) http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm that a witness from the Theater was brought to City Hall and his affidavit was taken by J.B. Toney. Toney himself did not mention anything about taking this affidavit in his after-action report. The name Jack Davis does not appear in the DPD Archive index. 1) Who was this witness? 2) Was this witness the person who was taken out the back of the Theater and put in a squad car? 3) In his after-action report, E.E. Taylor wrote that he, Lt. Cunningham and J.B Tony (sic) remained at the Theater and took the names and addresses of the occupants of the Theater. Here is what he wrote: In his report, Taylor doesn't say anything about this witness having seen Oswald enter the Theater without paying a ticket, so I doubt he is talking about Johnny Brewer, If Jack Davis was taken to City Hall, what happened to his affidavit? Davis was not questioned by the WC either. I have read that Davis was 18 in 1963. Do we know anything more about his life? 4) Did this witness look like Oswald? I personally think this "witness" makes for a stronger case for the guy taken out the back and being put in a squad car than a second Oswald. 5) What happened to this "witness's Affidavit? Why doesn't Toney mention this in his after-action Report? 6) Butch Burroughs does not appear in the DPD Archives Index either. In his WC testimony, Burroughs wasn't asked, and he didn't say anything about being taken down to City Hall and having an Affidavit taken. Steve Thomas

David, Thank you. "Mr. CALLAWAY. I saw a squad car, and by that time there was four or five people that had gathered, a couple of cars had stopped. Then I saw--I went on up to the squad car and saw the police officer lying in the street. I see he had been shot in the head. So the first thing I did, I ran over to the squad car. I didn't know whether anybody reported it or not. So I got on the police radio and called them, and told them a man had been shot, told them the location, I thought the officer was dead. They said we know about it, stay off the air, so I went back." Steve Thomas

Deleted Steve Thomas

Jim, It's kind of interesting. Toney, E.E. Taylor, Cunningham and Marvin Buhk were riding in a car together, and went to the Theater. Their after-action reports are in Box 2, Folder# 7 of the DPD Archives http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm Taylor# 55 Toney# 62 Cunningham# 65 Taylor was Narcotics in the Special Service Bureau under Captain Gannaway. Toney and Cunningham were in Forgery under Captain Orville Jones. https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf Several of them speak of compiling such a list, but not one of them said what they did with it. Having different Captains, I don't know that they would necessarily have turned it over to Westbrook. I think if Cunningham took charge of it, he could have turned it over to his own Captain in Forgery, or maybe Fritz who was heading the investigation as Head of the Homicide and Robbery Bureau. Everybody who transported LHO back to City Hall though did seem to congregate back in Westbrook's office afterwards - more space perhaps? Steve Thomas

Ian, Yep. It appears that way. I never have figured that one out. Steve Thomas

It doesn't appear to me that there was any confusion on Benavides' part. We only have Bowley's word that Benavides didn't know how to use the radio. I had no idea that Bowley worked as a doorman at the Vegas Club and that his wife, Joyce was also a barmaid there. When Dispatch told the citizen to stay off the air, that they already had that information; that was three minutes after the fact. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/benavide.htm Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do? Mr. BENAVIDES - Then I don't know if I opened the car door back further than what it was or not, but anyway, I went in and pulled the radio and I mashed the button and told them that an officer had been shot, and I didn't get an answer, so I said it again, and this guy asked me whereabouts all of a sudden, and I said, on 10th Street. I couldn't remember where it was at at the time. So I looked up and I seen this number and I said 410 East 10th Street. Mr. BELIN - You saw a number on the house then? Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes. Mr. BELIN - All right. Mr. BENAVIDES - Then he started to--then I don't know what he said; but I put the radio back. I mean, the microphone back up, and this other guy was standing there, so I got up out of the car, and I don't know, I wasn't sure if he heard me, and the other guy sat down in the car. Mr. BELIN - There was another passerby that stopped? Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN - Who was he, do you know? Mr. BENAVIDES - I couldn't tell you. I don't know who he was. Mr. BELIN - Was he driving a car or walking? Mr. BENAVIDES - I don't know. He was just standing there whenever I looked up. He was standing at the door of the car, and I don't know what he said to the officer or the phone, but the officer told him to keep the line clear, or something, and stay off the phone, or something like that. That he already knew about it. So then I turned and walked off. I never did assist him after that at all. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bowley.htm AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT THE STATE OF TEXAS COUNTY OF DALLAS Affidavit taken 12/2/63 BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared T.F. Bowley w/m/35 of 1454 Summertime Lane, TE6 5965 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says: On Friday November 22, 1963 I picked up my daughter at the R. L. Thornton School in Singing Hills at about 12:55 pm. I then left the school to pick up my wife who was at work at the Telephone Company at Ninth Street and Zangs Street. I was headed north on Marsalis and turned west on 10th Street. I traveled about a block and noticed a Dallas police squad car stopped in the traffic lane headed east on 10th Street. I saw a police officer lying next to the left front wheel. I stopped my car and got out to go to the scene. I looked at my watch and it said 1:10 pm. Several people were at the scene. When I got there the first thing I did was try to help the officer. He appeared beyond help to me. A man was trying to use the radio in the squad car but stated he didn't know how to operate it. I know how and took the radio from him. I said, "Hello, operator. A police officer has been shot here." The dispatcher asked for the location. I found out the location and told the dispatcher what it was. A few minutes later an ambulance came to the scene. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=205582&relPageId=15&search=T.F._Bowley A Record from Mary's Database Record: BOWLEY, TEMPLE F. "TOM" Mary's Comments: Shown as "Bewley" in error. Representative of Western Electric. Wife: Joyce. Joyce worked as barmaid at Vegas Club during time Bowley worked there as a doorman. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=149247&relPageId=5&search=T.F._Bowley http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes2.htm 1:15 PM Dispatcher Unit ending in 6. (Long pause, 15 seconds) 1:16 PM Citizen Hello, police operator? Dispatcher Go ahead. Go ahead, citizen using the police radio. Citizen There's been a shooting out here. Dispatcher Where's it at? Dispatcher The citizen using the police radio . . . Citizen Tenth Street. Dispatcher What location on Tenth Street? Citizen Between Marsalis and Beckley. It's a police officer. Somebody shot him. What -- what's . . . 404 Tenth Street. Dispatcher Can you hear me? (Man and woman's voices in background) Dispatcher 78. Citizen It's in a police car, number 10. Dispatcher 78. Dispatcher (?) 78. Citizen Got that? Citizen Hello, police operator. Did you get that? Dispatcher Attention. Signal 19, police officer, 510 E. Jefferson. Citizen Thank you. 35 (Ptm. J.M. Lewis) 35. 259 (unknown) 259. Dispatcher The citizen using the police radio: Remain off the radio now. 1:19 PM (three minutes later) Citizen Pardon, from out here on Tenth Street, 500 block. This officer just shot. I think he's dead. Dispatcher 10-4. We have that information. The citizen using the radio: Remain off the radio now. Steve Thomas

David, Have you ever read the doctor's report from Russia? I think it's in that batch of documents in CE 985. If I remember right, it's kind of revealing. Only a couple of stitches and no tendons or ligaments were cut. I think he was suspicious of Oswald's language ability and whether he could or could not understand Russian. Steve Thomas

Does the ignore function still work?

Jim, Rather than post it here, could I invite you to look at my web site? https://myjfksite.weebly.com/ The Heading is "Harvey Lee Oswald", and it's about 3/5 down the page. The Headings are in red. Steve Thomas

Jim, I have been tracking the known references I have found of Harvey Lee Oswald. So far, I have 29 of them. This is over and above the Harvey and Lee research that you and John Armstrong have done. I have tried to trace the earliest reference I can, and from what I've found, it seems to be coming out of Russia of all places. I think the Harvey Lee Oswald persona was created long before we knew it to be, but by who or why or how, I don't know. I think this persona, or dossier was created and shared across all spectrums of the intelligence community. I am with Peter Dale Scott on this one: Lee Harvey Oswald in Russia An Unauthorized History from the Kennedy Assassination http://www.russianbooks.org/oswald-in-russia.htm “This "Harvey Lee Oswald" reference is no accidental anomaly, but part of an organized pattern, widely dispersed, that suggests an official intelligence deception (and possible dual filing system). Serial 02296-E of 27 Jun 60 is the earliest Harvey Lee Oswald reference we now possess of over two dozen, from the files of ONI, FBI, CIA, Army Intelligence, the Secret Service, the Mexican Secret Police (DFS), and the Dallas Police.9 A consistent pattern of behavior in these agencies since the assassination has been the tendency to suppress references to "Harvey Lee Oswald," and replace them by the more standard "Lee Harvey Oswald."10 9 . For a discussion and incomplete list, see Peter Dale Scott, Deep Politics Two, 80, 85-89, 118-19, 142-49. 10. Ibid. especially pp. 118-19. I think the Harvey Lee Oswald is the Oswald, comma, Harvey Lee (Oswald, Harvey Lee); who registered at the 1026 N. Beckely roominghouse as O.H. Lee and who Earlene Roberts and Arthur Johnson said the police came looking for, some half an hour before Lee Harvey was even arrested at the Texas Theater. This at least one hour before the Detectives were dispatched from Police Headquarters at 2:40PM. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/johnso_a.htm Mr. BELIN. How long had you been at the house when the officers arrived? Mr. JOHNSON. Oh, probably 30 minutes. Mr. BELIN. Do you remember about what time of the day they arrived? Mr. JOHNSON. Well, it must have been around 1:30 or 2 o'clock--the best I remember. Mr. BELIN. When did you get home that day from your work? Mr. JOHNSON. Well, it was around 1 o'clock or maybe a little bit after. WC testimony of Earlene Roberts April 8, 1964 http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/robertse.htm Mr. BALL. Do you remember the day the President was shot? Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; I remember it---who would forget that? Mr. BALL. And the police officers came out there? Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Do you remember what they said? Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, it was Will Fritz' men---it was plainclothesmen and I was at the back doing something and Mr. Johnson answered the door and they identified themselves and then he called me. Mr. BALL. What did they say? Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, they asked him if there was a Harvey Lee Oswald there. Mr. BALL. What did he say? Mrs. ROBERTS. And he says, "I don't know, I'll have to call the housekeeper," and he called me and I went and got the books and I said, "No; there's no one here by that name," and they tried to make me remember and I couldn't, and Mrs. Johnson come in in the meantime and there wasn't nobody there by that name, and Mrs. Johnson said, "Mrs. Roberts, don't you have him?" And, I said, "No; we don't, for here is my book and there is nobody there by that name." We checked it back a year. Mr. BALL. And you didn't have that name you didn't ever know his name was Lee Oswald? Mrs. ROBERTS. No---he registered as O. H. Lee and they were asking for Harvey Lee Oswald. Steve Thomas

One week later, on January 11, 1960 he submitted an application for employment at the Minsk Radio and TV plant. On his application, he wrote that his parents were dead, and he had no brothers or sisters. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&search=%22Harvey_Lee+Oswald%22#relPageId=441&tab=page page 426 of CE 985 On page 430 of CE 985, there is a Certificate dated July 15, 1961 that “Comrade”, Lee Harvey Oswald was employed as an assembler at the Minsk Radio Plant. The date January 1, 1960 is typed on the Certificate. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=444&tab=page Is this date of January 1, 1960 a mistake, or is Lee Harvey Oswald certified as an assembler ten days before he even applied for the job? Whole lot of funny business... Steve Thomas

Jim, On January 4, 1960, Lee Harvey Oswald applied for a non-citizen alien identity card. In the space for the names of relatives living abroad, he listed his mother, Margaret living at 3124 W. 5th. St. in Fort Worth. No brother is listed. Four photographs are provided. (Photos not included in the documents) This document spells out the details of a non-citizen identity card (Series P-311479) https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10210-10003.pdf One week later, on January 11, 1960 he submitted an application for employment at the Minsk Radio and TV plant. On his application, he wrote that his parents were dead, and he had no brothers or sisters. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&search=%22Harvey_Lee+Oswald%22#relPageId=441&tab=page On January 4, 1961 he applied for an extension of his non-citizen alien identity card. In the space for the names of relatives living abroad, this space is left blank. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&search=%22Harvey_Lee+Oswald%22#relPageId=430&tab=page This ID card was extended to January 4, 1962. On January 4, 1962 Lee Harvey Oswald applied for an an extension for his non-citizen alien identity card. As part of his application he listed his mother as Margaret and his brother as Robert. “Margaret's” address is listed as P.O. Box 982 Vernon. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&search=%22Harvey_Lee+Oswald%22#relPageId=434&tab=page This identity card was granted an extension until July 2, 1962. On page 430 of CE 985, there is a Certificate dated July 15, 1961 that “Comrade”, Lee Harvey Oswald was employed as an assembler at the Minsk Radio Plant. The date January 1, 1960 is typed on the Certificate. On page 433 of that CE Exhibit (CE 985), it says that “Citizen” Harvey Lee Oswald was hired as a regulator at the Minsk Radio Plant on January 13, 1960. "Comrade" Lee Harvey Oswald is hired January 1, 1960 "Citizen" Harvey Lee Oswald is hired two weeks later on January 13, 1960. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=7986&relPageId=111&search=Dobrynin_December%2011,%201963 p. 111. In this letter, it says that Harvey Lee Oswald's request for USSR Citizenship was denied. It doesn't say when he applied for that citizenship, but the character reference memo from the Minsk Radio factory in CE 985, p. 433 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&relPageId=447&search=%22Harvey_Lee%20Oswald%22 is dated December 11, 1961 and refers to “Citizen” Harvey Lee Oswald. Harvey Lee Oswald's application for citizenship is denied Whole lot of funny business going on over there in ol' Russia land. Steve Thomas

Jim, I'd still like to know whose application for Soviet citizenship was denied in 1961. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=7986&relPageId=111&search=Dobrynin_December%2011,%201963 p. 111. In that letter, Dobrynin lays out why the Soviet Government rejected the citizenship application of Harvey Lee Oswald. Documents submitted by Dobrynin on May 5, 1964: CE 985 pp. 404+ https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=418&tab=page There is an application for a non-citizen alien identity card, which was granted on January 4, 1960, 1961, and 1962, but no application for citizenship, and no correspondence from the Soviet Government denying such an application. So whose application for citizenship was denied? Steve Thomas

From The Dallas Morning News, June 28, 1960 TEXAS INSTRUMENTS GET HIGH-SPEED IBM SYSTEM Texas Instruments accepted Monday, June 27, a $1,600,000 data processing system that thinks in millionths of seconds - the first such system to be delivered either to private industry or the military. Read the full story here. http://photographyblog.dallasnewsblogs.com/files/2013/06/ibm.pdf Steve Thomas

Jim, I agree. I told Bart Kamp the other day that I wish I had a lot more answers rather than have just a list of endless questions. Steve Thomas

In his essay in the Reopen the Kennedy Case Forum in 2016, Hasan Yusuf makes the case that the two IBM men in the store were Igor Vaganov, and Robert Radelat/Radelet. http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1124-brewer-s-ibm-friends Hasan also wrote, <quote> " What I also find interesting is the information contained in the following article by Robert E. Doran: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16254&search=Bill_Stage+hypnotist+Dallas+Air+force+base#relPageId=15&tab=page Doran writes that two of his Air Force “buddies” were hypnotised by a professional stage hypnotist from Dallas named “Bill” who was brought along by a mysterious IBM instructor. The reason I find this interesting is because William Crowe (aka Bill DeMar), who was the master of ceremonies at the Carousel Club, was evidently involved with hypnosis." " This whole idea of Robert Radelat as one of the IBM men in Brewer’s shoe store is really beginning to fascinate me. There was a Guido Radelat from Cuba who was a member of the anti-Castro organisation, JURE, and who “specialized in writing computer programs.” http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=91781&search=Guido_Radelat#relPageId=31&tab=page http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/01/AR2010080103221_2.html So we have Robert Radelat who it is said was working for IBM in November, 1963, and we have a Guido Radelat who was a member of an anti-Castro organisation who “specialized in writing computer programs.” Were they related? I sure would like to find out if they were." <end quote> Steve Thomas

Jim, It was the utter bizarrness of the story that piqued my interest. Why two IBM men? He could easily have said, "Two government agents, or two FBI guys, or even two guys from the auto body shop down the street". Was there an IBM office or store or data processing center nearby? Didn't these guys have jobs? How could they afford to " just come in and kill time and lounge around."? Steve Thomas

https://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?https&&&www.usarmygermany.com/Units/ASA%20Europe/USAREUR_ASAE.htm 1960 (Source: Email from John O'Neil) My next duty station (after Vint Hill Farms) was with the 507th USASA Group (Field Army) at Heilbronn am Neckar. We had 4 -2½ ton trucks with expandable sides that held all our IBM equipment that ran off portable diesel generators (one per truck). The vans were housed in a big garage and it was a fairly comfortable, if sometimes very cold, arrangement. Being 6 foot 6 and working is a space with a 6 foot roof became a real pain in the neck. “While I was with the 251st they received an IBM 1401 computer (could have been 1410 but I don’t think so). It was the first computer I’d seen outside the IBM plant in Endicott NY. It had been shipped from the US without ever having been mated on the floor (the RAM came from California and the rest from NY). It took several weeks for the trained IBM techs to figure out why it turned itself OFF every time the power was turned ON. That was my introduction to computers.” (Source: Email from James "Bull" Durham) I was stationed at Heilbronn from about April/May of 1960 in the 507th USASA GP. I worked in the com.center as a teletype operator among other duties!! “Jim Campbell in his email said “(When I was in, no 206 had ever re-enlisted - IBM had a job ready for them when they got out.)” 1958 (Source: Email from Jim Campbell) "I was a Ham Radio Operator before enlisting in the ASA in the Summer of 1957. While being processed at Ft. Devens I was assured by all and sundry that I was destined for a career as an 058 (ditty bopper). Instead, I was tapped for a job of teaching electronics in the Bird Cage at Devens. Not long after starting that job I got the opportunity to become an IBM CE for the ASA. After a stint at IBM school in Endicott and Poughkeepsie, NY I was assigned to USASA HQ Europe in Frankfurt. I worked for a year there in the data processing center on the top floor of the IG Farben Building. Our data processing unit was transferred to Rothwesten in the Summer of 1959 and I worked there outside the Operations Building in some shelters mounted on trucks. I believe that my MOS was 206.10, Cryptanalytic Equipment Repair. I left the army in the Summer of 1960. (When I was in, no 206 had ever re-enlisted - IBM had a job ready for them when they got out. The ASA ran a new group through the IBM school every year or so.)" Steve Thomas

Paul, What kind of guys just "lounge around" a shoe store? None. They might "lounge around a malt shop, or a bar, but a shoe store? Project WALNUT: You can see a reference to this system (WALNUT) on page 6 in the document entitled: “DCI John McCone and the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy” http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB493/docs/intell_ebb_026.PDF that Douglas Caddy referred to in his thread, “CIA report concluded director led JFK assassination coverup http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/helms1.htm “Mr. RANKIN. Do you have an opinion, Mr. McCone, as to whether or not the liaison between the intelligence agencies of the United States Government might be improved if they had better mechanical, computer or other facilities of that type, and also some other ideas or methods of dealing with each other? Mr. McCONE. There is a great deal of improvement of information that might be of importance in a matter of this kind through the use of computers and mechanical means of handling files, and you, Mr. Chief Justice, saw some of our installations and that was only a beginning of what really can be done. The CHAIRMAN. Yes; I did. Mr. McCONE. I would certainly urge that all departments of government that are involved in this area adopt the most modern methods of automatic data processing with respect to the personnel files and other files relating to individuals. This would be helpful. But I emphasize that a computer will not replace the man, and therefore, we must have at all levels a complete exchange of information and cooperation between agencies where they share this responsibility, and in going through this chronology, it points out the type of exchange and cooperation that the Central Intelligence Agency tries to afford both the Secret Service and the Federal Bureau of Investigation in matters where we have a common responsibility.” http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/helms1.htm “Mr. RANKIN. Do you have an opinion, Mr. McCone, as to whether or not the liaison between the intelligence agencies of the United States Government might be improved if they had better mechanical, computer or other facilities of that type, and also some other ideas or methods of dealing with each other? Mr. McCONE. There is a great deal of improvement of information that might be of importance in a matter of this kind through the use of computers and mechanical means of handling files, and you, Mr. Chief Justice, saw some of our installations and that was only a beginning of what really can be done. The CHAIRMAN. Yes; I did. Mr. McCONE. I would certainly urge that all departments of government that are involved in this area adopt the most modern methods of automatic data processing with respect to the personnel files and other files relating to individuals. This would be helpful. But I emphasize that a computer will not replace the man, and therefore, we must have at all levels a complete exchange of information and cooperation between agencies where they share this responsibility, and in going through this chronology, it points out the type of exchange and cooperation that the Central Intelligence Agency tries to afford both the Secret Service and the Federal Bureau of Investigation in matters where we have a common responsibility.” According to Wikipedia, WALNUT used an IBM 1360 data retrieval and name trace system employing IBM punch cards and microfilm. Paper documents were microfilmed and then the pages were scanned and input into IBM punch cards. The cards were keyword searchable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_1360 CIA Project WALNUT https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80B01139A000200020028-0.pdf May, 1959 \ Steve Thomas

Ron, Think military intelligence, not CIA. Steve Thomas

Ron, I was interested in Crigler because of his role in the recruiting process. Men who went into the Army Security Agency were recruited at the time they signed up, and before they went into basic traaining. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/ofstein.htm Mr. OFSTEIN Well, when I went in the service I was interested in radio--I was a disc jockey at the time, and the closest thing my recruiting sergeant said that I could get to radio would be possibly with the Army security agency, so I signed up, and after basic training I went to Fort Devens, Mass., and was held there on a temporary status while the agency determined what type training I should have, and I was given a language ability test and passed that and had a choice of three languages to take, and Russian was my first choice and I was sent to Monterey to study. Submitted by Walter Chisholm http://www.fortdevensmuseum.org/ArmySecurityAgency.php “Most enlistees who joined the Army when I did, did so for a period of three years and that was my intention, too. However, after taking the ordinary battery of tests given to new recruits, I and two others in my group were called aside and taken to a room to talk to another recruiter. He told us that our high scores on those tests qualified us to join an elite group of soldiers in the "Army Security Agency". Of course we had never heard of the ASA and when we asked questions he seemed quite evasive saying only that it was so secret that he couldn't tell us much about it, but he used the words "Top Secret" several times. Sounded very "cloak and dagger. He made a point that "you don't have much time to decide. If you accept, I have to get you on a plane to Fort Jackson SC where you will undergo basic training and then go on to your ASA schooling." We were at the induction station in Louisville KY and I had expected to go to basic just down the road at Fort Knox KY. At the time, I had never flown on a commercial airliner and the prospect of doing so, probably helped to sway my decision. Anyway, that and the way he didn't explain it, made it sound so intriguing that all three of us took the bait. Then he said "One more thing...because the ASA schooling is considerably more extensive than most other MOS's...many take from 6 to 12 months...the required period of enlistment is four years instead of the usual three". We all three thought about it for a moment, but it didn't deter us. We signed the paper and took the oath of enlistment”. After basic at Fort Jackson, I arrived at Fort Devens in March of 1964. Upon arrival there everyone was first assigned to Charlie Company. Before anyone could start training, a complete background investigation had to be performed by the FBI. That sometimes took a few weeks. C-company was a holding company where you spent most of your time pulling KP, Police Call, or other such menial tasks while you waited for your security clearance to arrive. I was transferred to A-company during training”. Steve Thomas

I've been interested in the IBM links to Brewer's store, and the possible links to the 507th Army Security Agency Group. Here's some notes I have: Ian Lloyd, Why the Texas Theatre? Jfk assassination forum http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=da10693a75f6fceb0ce372badd010bff&topic=1633.msg24228#msg24228 According to Ian Griggs' "No Case To Answer" Brewer mentions "2 IBM men" who he says he didn't actually know, but were in his shop when Oswald ducked into the doorway but, when Brewer came back to his shop, they had disappeared never to be seen again? Lee Farley, “Oswald's Escape Plan? Jfk assassination forum http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=da10693a75f6fceb0ce372badd010bff&topic=3304.msg61982#msg61982 “The main reason I place suspicion on Brewer is because when Oswald first entered Hardy's Shoe Store, Brewer claims he was with two people that he had known for over a year. These two men, he says, worked for IBM. They were in the neighborhood and they popped in and were "killing time" and "lounging around." The Dallas Police didn't seek these individuals to find out who they were and what they saw. No one, it appears, was interested in them in the slightest. They just disappeared from existence. Brewer had an interview with British researcher Ian Griggs in 1996. Brewer brought up the two men who were in his store (who worked for IBM) and he stated that in his absence they "locked up" for him. Lo and behold, Brewer says that although he had known these men for over a year, and they regularly came into his store to "kill time" he couldn't remember either of their names.” You can see a reference to this system on page 6 in the document entitled: “DCI John McCone and the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy” http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB493/docs/intell_ebb_026.PDF that Douglas Caddy referred to in his thread, “CIA report concluded director led JFK assassination coverup According to Wikipedia, Walnut used an IBM 1360 data retrieval and name trace system employing IBM punch cards and microfilm. Paper documents were microfilmed and then the pages were scanned and input into IBM punch cards. The cards were keyword searchable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_1360 I had been doing some reading on the 507th Army Security Agency Group in Germany in the 1950's and 60's. The soldiers talked about using IBM punch cards in their work. Several said that there was a job waiting for them at IBM when their hitch was over. (Source: Email from John O'Neil) (served in 1960) https://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?https&&&www.usarmygermany.com/Units/ASA%20Europe/USAREUR_ASAE.htm My next duty station (after Vint Hill Farms) was with the 507th USASA Group (Field Army) at Heilbronn am Neckar. We had 4 -2½ ton trucks with expandable sides that held all our IBM equipment that ran off portable diesel generators (one per truck). Jim Campbell in his email said “(When I was in, no 206 had ever re-enlisted - IBM had a job ready for them when they got out.)” When I got out I went to the IBM office in San Francisco, showed them my diploma with TJ Watson’s signature and asked for a job, they asked me what I knew about computers, so I told them I’d seen one in Germany. I got the hint when they said ‘Goodbye, thanks for stopping in”. Late in 1962 was not the time to look for a job repairing the soon to be obsolete IBM punched card machines! It all turned out for the best. I worked as a tab operator while I taught myself computer programming and all that stuff and lived happily ever after. My wife, our three children and I moved to Australia 40 years ago. Hielbronn was where Dennis Ofstein of Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall fame and Thomas H. Crigler were stationed. Thomas Crigler worked as an Army recruiter. There was a recruiting office about one or two blocks from the Texas Theater and Brewer's Shoe store in Oak Cliff. Crigler lived at 1705 McAdams in Oak Cliff. On December 6, 1963 Thomas Crigler was interviewed by the FBI. He said that he met Olfstein “accidentally” on the street. See FBI interview of Crigler December 6, 1963: CD 205 p. 478 https://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=481&tab=page Thomas H. Crigler, Jr., 1705 McAdams, advised he is currently a Staff Sergeant, U.S. Army Security Agency, Field Representative, assigned to U.S. Army Recruiting Station, Dallas. He advised that he and Dennis Ofstein were assigned to the same U.S. Army branch in Europe and that he knew Ofstein from about June, 1960 to December, 1960 purely as another person attached to the same unit with him. He said that he had never become socially or well acquainted with Ofstein at that time. He said the caption of their group was the 507th USASA Group, Heilbron, West Germany.” (This is actually spelled Heilbronn) However, he said later in his FBI interview that about a week after meeting Ofstein in the street in August, Ofstein and his family came to Crigler's house, and that twice more he and his wife visited Ofstein at his (Ofstein's) house. Steve Thomas

Craig, " Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, because as soon as he came home I showed him the note and asked him "What is the meaning of this?" Mr. RANKIN. And that is when he gave you the explanation about the Walker shooting? Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I know that on a Sunday he took the rifle, but I don't think he fired on a Sunday. Perhaps this was on Friday. So Sunday he left and took the rifle. Mr. RANKIN. If the Walker shooting was on Wednesday, does that refresh your memory as to the day of the week at all? Mrs. OSWALD. Refresh my memory as to what? Mr. RANKIN. As to the day of the shooting? Mrs. OSWALD. It was in the middle of the week." Where was the rifle between Sunday and Wednesday? Steve Thomas

Joe, I'm assuming this means you read their Warren Commission testimony. In addition to Smith and Walker, a third man - the cameraman, Warren Richey also testified. They all testified before the WC. I like to use this site: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/wit.htm because it lets me cut and paste things. All three of the men said they didn't know Ruby personally, but recognized him when they saw his picture on TV and in the papers as the guy who approached them on the street the morning of the 24th. Walker told the WC that his FBI statement was wrong in that it wasn't he who said he saw Ruby around 8:00 to 8:30. Richey told the WC that it was him. You're right. The parallels to Seth Kantor are too stark to overlook. Steve Thomas Steve Thomas