Steve Thomas
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Paul,
This short report by Secret Service inspector Kelley is very interesting. Oswald never admitted to using Hidell as an alias. Is that technically correct?
There is this WC testimony from Will Fritz:
Mr. BALL. Another thing, that day, at sometime during the 22d when you questioned Oswald, didn't you ask him about this card he had in his pocket with the name Alek Hidell?
Mr. FRITZ. I did; yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you ask him about that?
Mr. FRITZ. I believe he had three of those cards if I remember correctly, and he told me that was the name that he picked up in New Orleans that he had used sometimes. One of the cards looked like it might have been altered a little bit and one of them I believe was the Fair Play for Cuba and one looked like a social security card or something.
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. FRITZ. We have pictures of those cards here. You no doubt have them.
Mr. BALL. Yes. We have them. Did he say that he had used that as a name?
Mr. FRITZ. He told me that is a name he picked up in New Orleans.
Mr. BALL. Did he say----
Mr. FRITZ. I presumed by that he had used it by saying he had picked it up in New Orleans.
Mr. BALL. To one officer he said he didn't want to talk about that or he wouldn't talk about that?
Mr. FRITZ. That is right. Very often he would do that. He would tell him some things and tell me some things.
Mr. BALL. I am talking about this card, A. Hidell. Do you recall whether he told you he had picked it up in New Orleans and--or did he tell you he didn't want to talk about it? He wouldn't talk about it?
Mr. FRITZ. He didn't tell me he wouldn't want to talk about it. He told me he had picked it up down there and when I questioned further then he told me he didn't want to talk about it.There are a couple of things in here that interest me.
1) There are at least three people who say that they saw and questioned Oswald about the Hidell ID on Friday night: Detective Guy Rose, FBI Agent Manning Clements, and H&R Division Captain Will Fritz.. I think that should answer the question of when the Hidell ID emerged.
2) The police officer Fritz refers to. To me, there seems to be a mystery police officer in the mix here. Fritz refers to him when asked how he learned of the 1026 N. Beckley St. address, and again in his interrogation notes when he refers to him as "B.O.".
3) Oswald admits to having the Hidell ID card in his possession, and either "declines to admit", or "denies" that the signature is his; (there is a slightly nuanced difference in interpretation here - you have compare the interrogation reports of Fritz, Bookhout and Kelley); and then refuses to discuss it further. Fritz said that Oswald said "he had used it sometimes", but I have yet to discover what it was ever used for.
Steve Thomas
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“I approached Oswald then and, out of the hearing of the others except perhaps one of Captain Fritz's men, said that as a Secret Service agent; … we were therefore very anxious to talk with him to make certain that the correct story was developing as it related to the assassination.”
Oswald said he'd be glad to discuss this once he got an attorney.
Thomas Kelley. Warren Report. Appendix XI. Reports Relating to the Interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald at the Dallas Police Department p. 630https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=946#relPageId=654&tab=page
Steve Thomas
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Mr. and Mrs. Tobias were the apartment managers at 602 Elsbeth St.
Mrs. TOBIAS. Now, do you want me to leave the books with you?
Mr. JENNER. Yes; leave the books and we will give them to your husband. Tobias Exhibit No. 1 is offered in evidence.Mr. JENNER. I appreciate your cooperation. These are your original receipt books and we have recited them in the record and now return them to you and thank you very much for bringing them.
Mr. TOBIAS. I have one of these I keep ever since I been in that apartment and I been there for 3 years and a half and I have got every receipt I ever wrote and I keep it on records and lots of times I have to go back to them and there's only one person that doesn't get into them and that's the credit department.The reason I ask is that according to their testimony, Oswald was supposed to have vacated the Elsbeth apartment by March 1st, but they let him hang around until the 3rd. I think because the utilities hadn't been turned on at Neely St. yet.
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/oswald_m1.htm
Mr. RANKIN. While you were at Elsbeth Street do you recall seeing any guns in your apartment?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.Mr. RANKIN. When did you move to Neely Street from the Elsbeth Street apartment?
Mrs. OSWALD. In January after the new year. I don't remember exactly.Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the first time that you observed the rifle?
Mrs. OSWALD. That was on Neely Street. I think that was in February.Mr. RANKIN. What kind of place did you have at Elsbeth Street, was it rooms or an apartment?
Mrs. OSWALD. An apartment.Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall what rent you paid? (At Elsbeth)
Mrs. OSWALD. It seems to me that it was $60, plus the utilities.
Mr. RANKIN. That would be $60 a month?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, and electricity and gas but the water was free. Sixty dollars a month including water.Mr. RANKIN. Do you remember why you moved from Elsbeth to Neely Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. I like it better on Neely Street.Mr. RANKIN. What about the rent? Was there a difference in rent between the two places?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, it was the same rent. It is perhaps even less. It seems to me it was $55.How could Marina be so specific about the rent they paid between the two places, and yet be off by two months about when they moved there, and when she first saw the rifle?
The rifle hadn't even been supposedly ordered until March 12th. Was it ever determined when it arrived?
Do the Tobias rent receipts appear anywhere in the record? Are they part of the Warren Report itself?
Tobias Exhibit 1 is a sketch of the apartment layout, but not the rent receipts.
Steve Thomas
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WC testimony of George Bouhe (8H355 plus)
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/bouhe.htm
Then I added, "Well, I would like to hear how you get along," which is a standard statement I would ask anybody.
And for 2 or 3---or possibly 5 days thereafter he would call me at 6 o'clock, I guess when he finished his work, and say, "I am doing fine. Bye."
Mr. LIEBELER - That would be the extent of his conversation with you on the telephone?
Mr. BOUHE - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - He didn't tell you anything of the details of his work?
Mr. BOUHE - I did not ask.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you know where----366
Mr. BOUHE - Wait a second, maybe I did ask and, well, he said it was some photographic process in the lithographic business, but I don't know what that means.
In her Chronologies, Mary Ferrell has the following notes, but these may be based on George Bouhe's WC testimony:
October 12, 1962 Oswald calls George Bouhe at 6:00 PM and says “Im fine”.
October 15, 1962 Oswald calls George Bouhe at 6:00 PM and says,“I'm fine.”
October 16, 1962 Oswald calls George Bouhe and says, “Im fine.”
October 17, 1962 Oswald calls George Bouhe at 6:00 PM and says, “Im fine.”
October 18, 1962 Oswald calls George Bouhe at 6:00 PM and says, “I'm fine.”
On October 19th the calls stop. Oswald checks out of the YMCA and disappears for two weeks. He is working at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, but noone knows where he is living. Not his wife, not his bosses at JCS, not his co-workers, not his acquaintances.
According to the WC testimonies of Alexandra de Mohrenschildt and George Bouhe, it is a room somewhere in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas. George de Mohrenschildt said that Oswald “found himself a place to live.”
Does Oswald call "precisely" at 6:00 PM?
Is he reporting in?
Is he receiving instructions?
Is he waiting for something? Information before he can act?
Are the calls innocent?
Steve Thomas
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Lee Harvey Oswald went to work at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall on October 12, 1962. On October 15th, 1962, Oswald would move from a home in Fort Worth, Texas to room 415 at the YMCA in downtown Dallas where he would live from the 15th to the 19th of October. He vacated the YMCA and aside from his employment at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, he was incommunicado from the 19th of October, until the 3rd of November, 1962. Through the Warren Commission testimonies of the Taylors and the de Mohrenschildts, indications are that he was living in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas. On November 3, 1962, Oswald moved his wife and child from a home in Fort Worth into Apartment# 2 at 604 Elsbeth St.
So, he would move from the YMCA to Oak Cliff. Gary Taylor thought he was living at the Coz-I-Eight apartments.
In her Chronologies for October, 1962 (on page 78) Mary Ferrell locates the Coz-I-Eight apartments at 1306.N.Beckley.
He would repeat this process in 1963. On October 3, 1963 Oswald supposedly returned from Mexico and checked into room 601 of the YMCA. He would move from the YMCA to a rooming house at 1026 N. Beckley on October 15th.
The owner of the rooming house at 1026 N. Beckley, Mrs. Johnson, said that Oswald first came by looking for a room at 1026 about three weeks before he actually moved in.
Oswald apparently lived at Mary Bledsoe's house on N. Marsalis from the 4th to the 7th of October, but I thought what she said was very odd. In her WC testimony, she said, “Mrs. BLEDSOE - Had his things on his hand and had his bag, but after he paid my $7 he went out---I don't know, I think this YMCA, but I am not supposed to know where,...”
She kept her room bookings on a calendar, but the month of October was torn out. She blamed her son.
On November 1, 1963 Lee Oswald would apply for Post Office Box 6225. On his PO Box application, he would list 3610 N. Beckley as his home address. Why didn't he give 1026 as his home address?
When he applied for the PO Box, did he remember the apartment complex at 1306 and transpose the numbers like he did on the Fair Play for Cuba Committee pamphlets down in New Orleans in August?
Was there something significant in the northern section of Beckley St. that would cause Oswald to go from the YMCA in downtown Dallas to that section of Oak Cliff twice?
Steve Thomas
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Mr. VOSHININ - Yeah - and as far as I know Mr. Bouhe even kept files and
453
still keeps files on everybody - when anybody was born, baptized, or whatever happened to everybody.
Mr. JENNER - I see.
Mr. VOSHININ - He even showed me a file and he said, "Say, you came here, I immediately opened a file on you."
I say, "What for?"
And he say, "Well, you know, I forget things - so I keep a file on everybody."
Steve Thomas
On November 28, 1963 Bouhe was interviewed by SA John Flanagan about any possible relationship between Jack Ruby and Lee Oswald. In the course of the interview, Bouhe "produced a card on which he kept addresses and this card bore the notation dated November 1, 1963, 602 Elsbeth..."
Either the card that Bouhe had, or Agent Flanagan, who reported what was on the card, had the year wrong. LHO moved to the 604 Elsbeth address on November 3, 1962, not 1963.
In Jack Revill's second appearance before the WC on May 13, 1964 he said,
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/revill2.htm
"Mr. REVILL. Is this a-is this an incorrect address on Mr. Oswald where he was living at the time?
Mr. RANKIN. If you check it up I think you will find--it is an incorrect address at the time. I think you will also find that 602 Elsbeth Street is where he lived at one time.
Mr. REVILL. Is this a-is this an incorrect address on Mr. Oswald where he was living at the time?
Mr. RANKIN. If you check it up I think you will find--it is an incorrect address at the time. I think you will also find that 602 Elsbeth Street is where he lived at one time."
It makes me wonder if George Bouhe was the source of Jack Reville's information.
602 was the address of the apartment manager, Tobias.
Oswald lived in Apartment# 2 at 604 Elsbeth.
In either case, we know that Bouhe had a card file on Lee Harvey Oswald.
Steve Thomas
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Thomas,
Didn't she marry some guy who also met LHO in Dallas, and aren't they now living in Washington State or the Vancouver Island area? And isn't he a lawyer?
Or am I thinking of someone else?
Look at this website for Alexandra's connections to Sheik Mohammed Fayed, father of Dodi, who was killed with Princess Diana.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=209x7010
Scroll about 2/3 of the way down the page.
I didn't know about this.
Steve Thomas
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Who would be your vote for the most interesting person you have encountered in the JFK assassination event?
I think mine would have to be Alexandra de Mohrenschildt.
Abandoned by her mother at birth.
Raised by her aunt until she was 14, she traveled all over the world.
Married when she was 15 years old. George said she "eloped from high school".
Had the misfortune to brush up against Lee Harvey and Marina Oswald.
It was Alexandra who found George de Mohrenschildt shot to death in a hallway in Florida in 1977.
What a tragic figure.
Steve Thomas
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Jim,
George Bouhe is a fascinating character. And there was never enough honest inquiry into who he was and what his real position was with the White Russians.
On December 3, 1968 the FBI interviewed a George Bloodworth, who was a Warrant Officer Candidate in the U.S. Army Helicopter School in Mineral Wells, Texas. He met George Bouhe in the apartment of Alexander Kleinlerer. Bloodworth ahd formerly been in the Marines and had been stationed at the U.S. Embassy in Tunisia. He was very security conscious. Kleinlerer left the apartment to buy some food at a delicatessan, and Bloodworth and Bouhe got to talking. While they were talking, Bloodworth got the impresion that Bouhe was “one of us”, meaning an Army Intelligence Agent.
FBI - HSCA Subject File: Lydia Dymitruk (page 9 in the file, page 7 of the Report) https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=129757&search=Alexander_Kleinlerer#relPageId=9&tab=pageSteve Thomas
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Joe,
Read his wife's too.
"our friends, the Jitkoffs, they mentioned to us that they don't like George at all and they didn't want us to bring him to their house. And I asked why, and she didn't want to tell exactly why, but she said some thing about some people - some character whom he is visiting in Houston.
Mr. JENNER - To Houston?
Mrs. VOSHININ - I mean to Houston. Right.
Mr. JENNER - Were these regular?
Mrs. VOSHININ - Quite regular. And usually it would coincide, somehow, with his next assignment.Steve Thomas
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Does anyone know anything about these files?
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/voshin_i.htm
Mr. VOSHININ - Yes; yes. Everybody knows everybody.
Mr. JENNER - Everybody knew everybody?
Mr. VOSHININ - That's right.
Mr. JENNER - And all rumors and everything else passed back and forth through this group?
Mr. VOSHININ - Yes; that's right.
Mr. JENNER - And is it true that arising out of this common interest in the Greek Orthodox Church and the two parishes that a measure of social inter course, apart from the church, was also generated?
Mr. VOSHININ - Yes; that is true.
Mr. JENNER - And you people generally became acquainted, one with the other, in not only your church activity but your general social activity as well?
Mr. VOSHININ - Yeah - well, I wouldn't say "general" social activity, because, in addition to the church, I meet people through my office and my wife met them too, so - but partially, yes.
Mr. JENNER - Yes. At least, through that medium, whether you wanted to or not you sort of kept track of everybody?
Mr. VOSHININ - That's right.
Mr. JENNER - Everybody knew something about what the other fellow was doing or would like to?
Mr. VOSHININ - Yeah - and as far as I know Mr. Bouhe even kept files and453
still keeps files on everybody - when anybody was born, baptized, or whatever happened to everybody.
Mr. JENNER - I see.
Mr. VOSHININ - He even showed me a file and he said, "Say, you came here, I immediately opened a file on you."
I say, "What for?"
And he say, "Well, you know, I forget things - so I keep a file on everybody."Steve Thomas
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Paul,
Steve - the reason I asked that question is that the first description that went out to Dallas police of 'Oswald', presumably the alert heard by Tippett and others, matched the inaccurate details present in the segregated Oswald 201 file that were falsified by Angleton's group as a dangle searching for moles. This is important because Dallas Police have claimed that their first description came from an eyewitness account of someone seen in the 6th floor window. This seems very unlikely to me. I think it more likely that someone in one of the local military intelligence or reserve units supplied this info. And there were many Dallas cops who were also members of these units. Forgive me if my research skills aren't up to yours. I may have some detail wrong. But I have suspected some branch of military intelligence ever since I read this detail in Peter Dale Scott's excellent work. If one were to google Jack Crichton and read the article on Spartacus it really makes you wonder. So many suspicious details. So it seems to me that your work intersects with this body of research.
I'm sorry I was flippant. I apologize.
I don't know jack xxxx.
I'm just stumbling around in the dark.
I really was curious about Oswald's physical descriptions in his military records.
I've seen some records listing as him being 5'9", some at 5'11". Some have him weighing from 145 to 150lbs.
This was om Channel 1 at 12:45
Attention Elm and Houston is reported to be an unknown white male, all squads. Attention all squads. The suspect in the shooting at approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten inches, weight one hundred sixty-five pounds,
This was on Channel 2 at 12:45
Attention all squads, the suspect in the shooting at Elm and Houston is supposed to be an unknown white male, approximately 30, 165 pounds, slender build,
The broadcast on Channel 2 doesn't list his height.
You wrote: "Steve - the reason I asked that question is that the first description that went out to Dallas police of 'Oswald', presumably the alert heard by Tippett and others, matched the inaccurate details present in the segregated Oswald 201 file..."
I wondered if there were others.
You also wrote: "I think it more likely that someone in one of the local military intelligence or reserve units supplied this info."
Or, the card on him that Col. Robert Jones of the 112th MI said he had on Oswald dating back to August, when Oswald was involved in the FPFC activities in New Orleans.
Steve Thomas
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Ofstein and Oswald
On December 9, 1963 Thomas Crigler was interviewed by the FBI. He said that he met Olfstein “accidentally” on the street.
See FBI interview of Crigler December 9, 1963:
CD 205 p. 478
https://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=481&tab=page
Look in the Reopen the Kennedy Case Forum under the Topic, Brewster's IBM friends"
http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/f1-jfk
There is this posting:
by Hasan Yusuf on Fri 12 Aug 2016, 2:15 pm
“For those who are unaware, during an interview with author Ian Griggs in 1996, Johnny Calvin Brewer claimed that on the day of the assassination (when he allegedly observed Oswald duck into the lobby of his shoe store) there were two men from IBM in the store with him...”
On December 6, 1963 Thomas Crigler was interviewed by the FBI. He said that he met Olfstein (Dennis Hyman Ofstein of Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall fame) “accidentally” on the street.
See FBI interview of Crigler December 6, 1963:
CD 205 p. 478
https://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=481&tab=page
Thomas H. Crigler, Jr., 1705 McAdams, advised he is currently a Staff Sergeant, U.S. Army Security Agency, Field Representative, assigned to U.S. Army Recruiting Station, Dallas. He advised that he and Dennis Ofstein were assigned to the same U.S. Army branch in Europe and that he knew Ofstein from about June, 1960 to December, 1960 purely as another person attached to the same unit with him. He said that he had never become socially or well acquainted with Ofstein at that time. He said the caption of their group was the 507th USASA Group, Heilbron, West Germany.”
(The primary mission of the 507th was interception and translation of Russian and East German military radio traffic.)
Crigler said he was “currently assigned to the U.S. Army Recruiting Station”, which would make sense since, as I understand it, it was the Army Security Agency's practice to hit up on new recruits to join the ASA, even before they got sent to basic training.
In a posting on a website devoted to the 507th USASA Group (Source: Email from John O'Neil)
Click on the link for the 507th ASA Group.
“While working in Heilbronn I received a phone call from a 206 at one of our other Processing Companies saying that an IG Inspection team had just been through his unit, and looked under the covers of one of the machines. When the IG found a rather big mess of old oil and card dust he demanded to know why it wasn’t nice and clean. The 206 quickly explained that it was IBM’s policy ‘not to disturb the dirt’. As much as he would have liked to clean it up, he had to follow IBM’s maintenance orders. He suggested that if my machines were clean, I’d better get them dirty before the IG arrived.
“Jim Campbell in his email said “(When I was in, no 206 had ever re-enlisted - IBM had a job ready for them when they got out.)” When I got out I went to the IBM office in San Francisco, showed them my diploma with TJ Watson’s signature and asked for a job, they asked me what I knew about computers, so I told them I’d seen one in Germany. I got the hint when they said ‘Goodbye, thanks for stopping in”.
Late in 1962 was not the time to look for a job repairing the soon to be obsolete IBM punched card machines! It all turned out for the best. I worked as a tab operator while I taught myself computer programming and all that stuff and lived happily ever after. My wife, our three children and I moved to Australia 40 years ago.”
(A 206 is an MOS, or Military Occupation Specialty Code I believe).
If it is the same one (and I believe it is), the Army Recruiting Station is at 3434 W Illinois Ave, #114 in Oak Cliff. This is about mile or so, southwest of the Texas Theater. Crigler's home address of 1705 McAdams is just off of Illinois.
Just some food for thought.
Steve Thomas
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Paul,
Steve - do you think it likely that military Intel was the source for the first radio description of Oswald?
I would have no idea.
Why do you ask? Does the radio broadcast match his military records?
Steve Thomas
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Paul,
How did the police first learn that Oswald lived at 1026 N. Beckley?
His employment records at the TSBD listed him at 2515 W. 5th St. in Irving. So how did they know about Beckley?<snip>
Captain Fritz knew Oswald lived on Beckley before he started talking to him. The address didn’t come from Oswald and it didn’t come from any of the arresting officers. The Sheriff’s Deputies didn’t learn it until after the police had already arrived at Beckley. If Hosty can be believed, it didn’t come from the FBI. I believe it came from someone associated with military intelligence.
Steve ThomasMy response is that I wouldn't believe much that Dallas FBI agent James Hosty ever said. He told the Secret Service PRS who asked the Dallas FBI about dangerous people in Dallas, that there were none. This is a matter of record.
Holmes claimed in his WC testimony that upon the news of the arrest of Oswald at about 2 PM, he checked his records and found that Oswald had a PO Box in Dallas, for which Oswald had applied on November 1st, 1963, and that Oswald had used his 1026 North Beckley address in that PO Box application form.
Regards,
--Paul Trejo
<edit typos>
Thank you.
I too stopped believing Hosty when he told the WC that he had visited the Irving Street address twice in November and gotten Oswald's phone number from either Marina or Ruth Paine, but still didn't know of the Beckley St. address as of the 22nd.
He didn't criss-cross the phone number? It took the Sheriff's Deputies like five minutes.
That's kind of interesting about Holmes. I took a look at Homes Exhibit 1 in volume XX.
That's an application for P.O. Box 6225 on Novemmber 1st, but the home address looks like 3610 N. Beckley, not 1026.
I wonder what was at 3610?
Steve Thomas
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On January 29, 1964 Ofstein was interviewed by FBI Special Agents Allan Bray and Raymond Yelchak. “Mr. Ofstein advised he has no personal knowledge as to the residence of Lee Harvey Oswald
from the period of October 19 to November 3, 1962, during which time Oswald was working for Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall.”
. FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 84, pg 67
This specific time period puzzled me. It seems to be a period of time when Oswald went incomminicado for a period of about two weeks. He had first lived at the YMCA, but then moved into an apartment, but Marina didn't know where it was.
(See Marina's WC testimony and Mary Ferrell Chronologies)
Mary Ferrell Chronologies, Volume 2 (
- 1960 to June 1963 pages 83 and 84https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=40390#relPageId=83&tab=page
In her Chronologies for these two weeks, Mary continually asks, “Where does Oswald spend this night?”
This is the period of time when Oswald rents P.O. Box 29 2915 in Dallas and almost all of his mail is now being forwarded to thisP.O. Box.
Oswald moved into Appt# 2 at 604 Elsbeth on November 3, 1962 and moved out on March 3, 1963.
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/tobias.htm
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57773&relPageId=67&search=Ofstein
In the National Archives, there is a message dated November 26, 1963 from the Commanding General, U.S. Continental Army Command re-transmitting a message dated November 23, 1963 from someone at Fort Sam Houston, in San Antonio to CINC U.S. Strike Command at McDill Air Force Base in Florida. The November 23rd message summarizes a telephone conversation between a Captain Saxton in Strike Command and a Lieutenant Colonel Fons, Deputy Chief of Staff, Intelligence at 4th Army Headquarters at Fort Sam Houston that took place on November 23, 1963. In the middle of this summary, there is this passage:
“ASSISTANT CHIEF DON STRINGFELLOW, INTELLIGENCE SECTION, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT, NOTIFIED 112TH INTC GP, THIS HQ, THAT INFORMATION OBRAINED FROM OSWALD REVEALED HE HAD DEFECTED TO CUBA IN 1959 AND IS CARD CARRYING MEMBER OF COMMUNIST PARTY EVALUATION B-3
(FOUO) DCSI COMMENT , FBI, DALLAS, TEXAS, AND SAN ANTONIO LIGHT NEWSPAPER STATED OSWALD TRAVELED TO MOSCOW, USSR, IN 1959. POSSIBILITY EXISTS THAT OSWALD MAY HAVE TRAVELED TO USSR VIA CUBA, IN VIEW OF ABOVE INFORMATION UNCOVERED BY DALLAS POLICE.”
In November, 1963 Leonard Don Stringfellow was a Detective in the Criminal Intelligence Section of the Dallas Police Department Special Services Bureau, headed by Captain W. P. Gannaway.
What is interesting about this document is that is says that Detective Stringfellow “notified 112th Intelligence Group, this Headquarters…”
I believe that this message was the one Col. Robert Jones, formerly of the 112 Military Intelligence Group in San Antonio was asked about during his testimony before the HSCA on April 20, 1978. (History Matters Archive – Unpublished testimony of Robert Jones, pp. 55-57.
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/unpub_testimony/Jones_4-20-78/html/jones_0055a.htmsee also http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2011/02/112-mi-fourth-army-fort-sam-houston_05.html
Jones told the HSCA that while he did not know who prepared the cable, the cable was prepared by Mr. Arthur Nagle on the staff of the Chief of Staff, Intelligence, Fort Sam Houston. The From line on the original cable reads: FM CGASARFOUR FTSAMHOUSTON TEX. This could be Commanding General, Assistant Secretary, Fourth Army Headquarters Fort Sam Houston. He also definitely said that the original cable had not been prepared by the 112th.Robert Gemberling Report of 12/23/63. p. 474.
Lieutenant Jack Revill testified before the Warren Commission concerning a report he had filed with Chief Jesse Curry wherein he had wrongly listed Oswald’s address as 605 Elsbeth:
Revill (5H41)
Mr. RANKIN. And the words 605 Elsbeth Street, was that given by you?
Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; this is the address we were given or I was given by some of the officers involved in the arrest.
Mr. RANKIN. Who gave that to you?
Mr. REVILL. I believe Detective Carroll, Carroll or Detective Taylor, they were both there.Mr. RANKIN. And was that at the time you made this out that you were given that information?
Commission Document 205 - FBI Report of 23 Dec 1963 re: Oswald
Mr. REVILL. Shortly before I made this out.
Mr. RANKIN. You didn't even know where he lived then?
Mr. REVILL. No, sir; I did not. I had never heard of him.
Mr. RANKIN. You know that is wrong, don't you?
Mr. REVILL. The 605?
Mr. RANKIN. Yes.
Mr. REVILL. I don't know.
Mr. RANKIN. Is it wrong?
Mr. REVILL. Yes; it is.
Mr. DULLES. As of the time.
Mr. REVILL. That is what they gave me.
Mr. RANKIN. You found that out?
Mr. DULLES. This is an address he once lived at.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know that?
Mr. DULLES. This is correct. I want to find out what he knows about it.
Mr. REVILL. Is this a-is this an incorrect address on Mr. Oswald where he was living at the time?
Mr. RANKIN. If you check it up I think you will find--it is an incorrect address at the time. I think you will also find that 602 Elsbeth Street is where he lived at one time.
Mr. REVILL. Now, where they got this address----
Mr. RANKIN. You never checked that?
Mr. REVILL. I personally have not checked it but I am sure it has been checked.
Mr. RANKIN. I see.
Mr. REVILL. But this is the address I was given.
(5H42)
Mr. DULLES. Could I ask a question? Where did you get this address that you put on of 605 Elsbeth Street, do you recall?
Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; from Detective E. B. Carroll or Detective Taylor.
Mr. DULLES. Are they subordinates?
Mr. REVILL. No; they are detectives assigned to the special service bureau. One of them works the narcotics squad and one of them is assigned to the vice unit.
Mr. DULLES. You never ascertained where they got it?
Mr. REVILL. No, sir; this might be the address that they got from Oswald, I do not know. I never even thought about it until you brought up the point that this is not the address.
Mr. DULLES. Can you find out where they got this address?
Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; I can.
Mr. DULLES. I think that would be useful. I would like to know that. I would like to know where they got this address also.
Mr. REVILL. It would have been the same day because this was made within an hour----https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672 concerning Ofstein's FBI interview on December 2nd and 3rd: page 474:
“Ofstein noted that he, himself, is not in the U.S. Army Reserve at the present time.”
What is interesting to me here is what is not said. Was Ofstein saying he had never been in the Reserve, or was he saying that he had been in the Reserve, but just wasn't in the Reserve at the present time? (December, 1963).
Back in 2004 I posted an essay in the Education Forum entitled, How did the police first learn that Oswald lived at 1026 N. Beckley? You can read it here:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2331
My conclusion at the time was, “Captain Fritz knew Oswald lived on Beckley before he started talking to him. The address didn’t come from Oswald and it didn’t come from any of the arresting officers. The Sheriff’s Deputies didn’t learn it until after the police had already arrived at Beckley. If Hosty can be believed, it didn’t come from the FBI. I believe it came from someone associated with military intelligence. “
I also believe that military intelligence – at some level – was the source of information on the afternoon of November 22, 1963 as to the Elsbeth residence. At the time, Tosh Plumlee told me to pay particular attention to the 4th Army Reserve.
Was Ofstein involved? I don't know.
Steve Thomas
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Chris,
The "L" shaped building on the North side of 14th St. NW before the intersection of Columbia has a large "2900" on the west end facing the street. A small "2906" can be seen in street view next to the door of the last shop on the east end.
Google's historic maps for that location show that intersection unchanged since 1981.
Thank you. And thanks too for the tip about Google's Historic Maps. I'll have to look into this.
Bart, thank you for your kind words.
On December 19, 1963 FBI Washington Field Office Special Agent, Richard Woolf wrote a memo that reads in part, “On December 18, 1963 WF-T1 said he learned (through a Washington, D.C. bookstore – name not revealed in the memo) that...in September, 1962, Lee Harvey Oswald had requested a subscription to the magazine “Krododil” for which he paid a subscription fee of $2.20.”
On October 27th, he filed a change of address card asking that his subscriptions be mailed to P.O. Box 2915.
In January, 1963 Oswald requested subscriptions to several Soviet magazines including “The Agitator” for which he paid $13.20. Again, the name of the Washington, D.C. bookstore is not named.
Commission Document 201 - FBI Morrissey Report of 20 Dec 1963 re: Oswald page 2https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10605#relPageId=3&tab=page
Steve Thomas
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Robert Gemberling Report of 12/23/63. pp.472-477.
Commission Document 205 - FBI Report of 23 Dec 1963 re: Oswaldhttps://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672
On December 2nd, Ofstein told Agent Jackson that Oswald had given him (Ofstein) some Russian publications, and that Oswald had gotten them from the Victor Kamkin bookstore in New York. On the back, Oswald had written “Victor A. Kamkin, New York.”Oswald had given these three publications to Ofstein, and that Oswald's handwriting was on the back of one of them.
The were given FBI Document Number D81 and Warren Commission Exhibits, Q478, Q479, and Q480.
FBI LABORATORY EXAMINATIONS INCLUDING TRANSLATIONS OF FOREIGN LANGUAGE p.12.https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95735&search=Ofstein#relPageId=1&tab=page
Ofstein was recontacted the next day on December 3rd. He said he wanted to correct something he said the day before. On the back of “The Agitator”, Oswald supposedly had written, “Victor Kamkin Bookstore, Inc. 2906 14th St. N.W. Washington, 9 D.C. “ Ofstein said that the previous day he had said the bookstore was in New York, but in fact it was in Washington.D.C.
The effort here is to prove that the publications were, in fact, Oswald's.
The problem, as I see it, is that Victor Kamkin didn't own a bookstore in Washington.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Kamkin_Bookstore
I haven't found that the FBI did a handwriting analysis to determine that the notation on the back of “The Agitator” was in fact in Oswald's handwriting. After stating that the three publications came from Oswald, FBI Exhibit D81 says, “No further action taken”.
2906 14th St. NW appears to be at the intersection of 14th NW and Columbia in Washington. On Google maps, there doesn't seem to be a 2906 , but maybe somebody else who's better at Google Maps, or has a criss cross directory of Washington, D.C. can verify this.
Steve Thomas
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Crigler said that about a week after meeting Ofstein in August, he (Ofstein) had visited Crigler in his home, and that twice more he (Crigler) had visited Ofstein in his (Crigler's) house.
Steve Thomas
Sorry, I meant to say that Crigler had been to Ofstein's house twice.
-
Robert Gemberling Report of 12/23/63. pp.472-477.
Commission Document 205 - FBI Report of 23 Dec 1963 re: Oswaldhttps://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672
Ofstein's interview was conducted by FBI SA Kenneth Jackson on December December 2nd and 3rd, 1963. During that interview, Ofstein tells of meeting with Thomas Crigler and asking Crigler about Oswald. He said that he told Crigler about Oswald because he didn't want to “jeapordize his own (Ofstein's) security status for any possible future security clearance in the event he ever returned to the U.S. Army.”
Which is a little odd in itself since Ofstein married a German national and had a son in Stuttgart, Germany in July of 1960 and a daughter in Dallas in 1961. Why would a married man, and a father of two children be considering in 1963 a return to the Army?
Three days later, Crigler is interviewed by the FBI.
See FBI interview of Crigler December 6, 1963:
CD 205 p. 478
https://www.maryferr...tml?docId=10672
Crigler said that about a week after meeting Ofstein in August, he (Ofstein) had visited Crigler in his home, and that twice more he (Crigler) had visited Ofstein in his (Crigler's) house.
Ofstein's WC testimony was taken at 2 p.m., on March 30, 1964.
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir. After Oswald was released from employment, I did ask the recruiting sergeant for Army security here in town, who I was stationed with overseas, about the possibility of getting the FBI to run a routine check on him because of the fact that I have done security work, and the. fact that I also--this was just before I wrote the letter to Oswald inviting him and his wife over--due to the fact that I wanted to keep my record clean. Well, I didn't suspect him as being a spy or anything like that--I just wanted to make sure I was with the right company, and he told me that it was probably nothing.
Mr. JENNER. You wanted to inquire not only with respect to him but also whether you were with the right company?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, sir, I wouldn't jeopardize losing any chance of getting a security clearance at anytime I needed it.
Mr. JENNER. And, Sergeant Crozier, did you say his name was--I believe it is Sergeant Geiger.
Mr. OFSTEIN. His first name is Tom--I can't remember his last name now.
Mr. JENNER. Or, is it Kriegler?
Mr. OFSTEIN . Kriegler yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. He had been in the service with you, you had served together?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.So, sometime between August, 1963 (and at least three more times when they had been in each others' homes) and a two-day FBI interview on December 2nd and 3rd, 1963, Ofstein forgot Crigler's last name by March, 1964.
Seems a little odd.
Steve Thomas
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Paul,
Incredible work Steve. Somewhere online when I browsed for any info I could find on Ofstein, I came across a reference to a Dr. David Ofstein who someone thinks is the same man. Are you aware of that reference?
If you had to guess what the significance is of all the clues in Ofstein's testimony to the WC what would it be?Thank you.
You might be interested in the discussion in the jfkassassinationforum.com here under the heading "Oswald's employment at Jaggars Chiles Stovall":
see the post by Tom Scully on 10/06/16. I think the man's name you are thinking of was Dovid.As far as Dennis Ofstein goes, I just don't know. All I can think of though, is that there is more here than meets the eye.Steve Thomas -
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/ofstein.htm
Mr. OFSTEIN Well, when I went in the service I was interested in radio--I was a disc jockey at the time, and the closest thing my recruiting sergeant said that I could get to radio would be possibly with the Army security agency, so I signed up, and after basic training I went to Fort Devens, Mass., and was held there on a temporary status while the agency determined what type training I should have, and I was given a language ability test and passed that and had a choice of three languages to take, and Russian was my first choice and I was sent to Monterey to study.
That sounds pretty innocuous, except...
Submitted by Walter Chisholm
http://www.fortdevensmuseum.org/ArmySecurityAgency.php
“Most enlistees who joined the Army when I did, did so for a period of three years and that was my intention, too. However, after taking the ordinary battery of tests given to new recruits, I and two others in my group were called aside and taken to a room to talk to another recruiter. He told us that our high scores on those tests qualified us to join an elite group of soldiers in the "Army Security Agency". Of course we had never heard of the ASA and when we asked questions he seemed quite evasive saying only that it was so secret that he couldn't tell us much about it, but he used the words "Top Secret" several times. Sounded very "cloak and dagger". He made a point that "you don't have much time to decide. If you accept, I have to get you on a plane to Fort Jackson SC where you will undergo basic training and then go on to your ASA schooling."
After basic at Fort Jackson, I arrived at Fort Devens in March of 1964. Upon arrival there everyone was first assigned to Charlie Company. Before anyone could start training, a complete background investigation had to be performed by the FBI. That sometimes took a few weeks.
I have read other accounts of soldiers who were "volunteered" to go into the ASA, and they weren't given much time to decide.
History of Fort Devens
http://www.fortdevensmuseum.org/history.php
After serving as a demobilization center for New England troops, the base was again declared excess and was put on caretaker status. The GI Bill of Rights brought so many students to colleges that the University of Massachusetts had an extension at Devens and Harvard University used it for student housing. Thousands of officers, enlisted men and civilians were trained as linguists, cryptographers, code operators, traffic analysts and specialists at the Army Security Agency Training Center and School following its activation in August 1951 until its move to Fort Huachuca when the base closed.
Steve Thomas
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Ofstein and Oswald
Ofstein deserves a closer look, and I'd like to see his military records to see what his Unit and military designation was. Things don't seem quite so “benign” now.Steve Thomas
from Ofstein's WC testimony http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/ofstein.htm
“...he had one picture that he wanted to enlarge. It showed a river of some sort, with a fairly nice looking building in the background, and I asked him if that was in Japan because he had been stationed in Japan.
Mr. JENNER..He told you he had?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir; and he said, "No, it wasn't in Japan," but he wouldn't elaborate on it, and I found out later that it was in Minsk.
Mr. JENNER. How much later did you find that out?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Possibly the latter part of February, or the middle part of February 1963.
Mr. JENNER. How did you find that out?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He came down with some Russian literature one day.
Mr. JENNER. Russian literature--what was the form of this literature?
Mr. OFSTEIN. It was a newspaper, I believe, at the time.
Mr. JENNER. Did he show it to you?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He didn't exactly show it to me, but it was in plain view.
Mr. JENNER. Did you look at it?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Do you remember anything about it that would tend to identify it?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Not extremely clearly--it was possibly a copy of the Soviet White Russian, I believe is what the title of it is, but I noticed that there--we had a conversation about the paper.
On 12/4/63 FBI Special Agent Anatole Boguslav obtained from Dennis Ofstein three Russian language publications which Ofstein claimed he had received from Lee Harvey Oswald. One was called “Soviet White Russia”, the other two were called, “The Agitator” and “The Crocodile.”
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95634&search=Ofstein#relPageId=25&tab=page
The were given FBI Document Numbers, Q478, Q479, and Q480.
Q478 is a magazine called “Agitator”, Issue# 6, March, 1963.
Q479 is a magazine called, “The Crocodile”, Issue# 4, February 10, 1963
Q480 is a newspaper called “Soviet White Russia”, issue date date Thursday, March 28, 1963
These are pro-communist publications, put out by the Soviet government.
Now, I don't want to put too fine a point on this, but Ofstein couldn't have seen a Russian newspaper called "White Soviet Russia" in "middle to late" February" that hadn't been published yet until March 28th. Were "The Agiator" and "The Crocodile" part of that "some Russian literature" that Ofstein mentioned that was over and above the "Soviet White Russia" newspaper?
Either:
a) he didn't see this paper until late March or early April, and not mid to late February?
In August, 1963, Ofstein meets Crigler and tells him that he (Ofstein) knows a guy who speaks Russian and worries that he might be a security risk. Crigler couldn't remember if Ofstein mentioned Oswald's name. If Ofstein was worried that he knew a Russian speaking guy, and knowing him might jeapordize his (Osfstein's future employment, why would Ofstein still have pro-communist Russian language publications in his possession in December that had been published in February and March?See FBI interview of Crigler December 9, 1963:
CD 205 p. 478
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672
c) Did the Russian publications really come from Oswald, or were they Ofstein's?
Mr. JENNER. Looking at Commission Exhibit No. 427 again, would you identify the handwriting and block printing on this Exhibit 427, if you can?
There appears the word "terminated" with the date 4-6-63, which I assume is April 6, 1963?
Mr. GRAEF. Yes.
So, sometime between March 28th when the newspaper was published, and April 6th, Oswald is fired.
Or, Oswald had a copy of the "Soviet White Russia" newspaper that he showed Ofstein that was published prior to March 28th.
I don't remember seeing any documentation that Oswald subscribed to these publications. If they did come from him, how did he obtain copies?
Steve Thomas
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Chris,
"Oswald and I have something in common here although I think if he attended the school he's a lot smarter than me.
A few years after being discharged from active service I attempted to re-enlist in the Army and I was sent down to Miami to take the Army language aptitude test. The test is taken while wearing headphones and they create an entirely new language and then ask you to choose between multiple audio "answers" to identify the proper phrase. Having lived overseas for long periods, I had conversational knowledge of the French and German languages and I had studied Latin for two years in grade school, along with French. This prior knowledge didn't help me take this test at all."
That's why I don't believe that the Language Aptitude Test that Lt. Col Folsom described in his WC testimony about Oswald consisted only of reading and writing comprehension. Not only that, but Oswald's test scores under "understanding" are different from his test scores in "reading" and in ""writing".
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/folsom.htm
"Mr. ELY - All right. Now, moving further down page 7, we have the record of a Russian examination taken by Oswald on February 25, 1959. Could you explain to us what sort of test this was, and what the scores achieved by Oswald mean?
Colonel FOLSOM - The test form was Department of the Army, Adjutant General's Office, PRT-157. This is merely the test series designation.
Now, under "understands" the scoring was minus 5, which means that he got five more wrong than right. The "P" in parentheses indicates "poor." Under reading he achieved a score of 4, which is low. This, again, is shown by the "P" in parentheses for "poor."
Mr. ELY - This 4 means he got four more questions right than wrong?
Colonel FOLSOM - This is correct.
And under "writes" he achieved a score of 3, with "P" in parentheses, and this indicates he got three more right than he did wrong.
His total score was 2, with a "P" in parentheses meaning that overall he got two more right than wrong, and his rating was poor throughout."I don't really believe that Oswald attended Monterey. If we can believe the official records, he was only in California for three months in 1959. It's possible that that is where he was tested, but you can't learn a foreign language in that short a period of time. Nor can you understand a foreign language simply by reading a few books. I can believe that he attended an ASL, an Army Language School while he was stationed in Japan.
Nor do I believe Ofstein when he told the WC:
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/ofstein.htm
Mr. JENNER. And I assume, with an entire year's study at that special school of Monterey, you acquired a facility with the language, did you?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Not as well as I should have; no, sir.Mr. JENNER. Did you pursue your study of the Russian language at anytime from the time you left Monterey until the present?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Only in little--what you might say, self study in spurts.This was a guy who spent a year at Monterey, and then spent his military tour of duty in Germany with the 507th, whose mission was to intercept and translate Russian and East German military traffic.
I don't buy it.
"It was the hardest test of any type I have ever taken in my entire life and I failed."
That took a lot of courage to say.
Steve Thomas
- 1960 to June 1963 pages 83 and 84
"Let's get our story straight"
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by Steve Thomas
Larry,
Thanks.
I've raised this issue before. What did LHO use this ID card for?
Buy beer?
Get into an R-rated movie?
Apply for social security?
*smile*
As far as the policeman goes, this is the third time I've found where Fritz refers to a policeman, and either fails to, or refuses to identify him.
This is very mysterious.
In February, 1964 Marina Oswald was questioned by the Warren Commission. During her testimony, she is asked to verify and authenticate a long list of documents, What she is not shown however, are the Hidell Selective Service card, nor the rifle postal money order.
On June 11, 1964 she again appears before the Warren Commission and is shown CE 819 - the FPFC membership card. She says that LHO filled out the top part and she signed the bottom line as Hidell, the Chapter President. (Again, no SS card or money order)
In 1979, the HSCA submitted 63 documents to handwriting experts and asks them authenticate them.
Item#'s 29 and 30 are the postal money order and the envelope in which it was sent.
http://jfkassassination.net/parnell/hscahand.htm
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=961#relPageId=227&tab=page
tem# 54 Undated. Exemplar writing of Marina Oswald. including seven slips of paper containing the writing "A. J. Hidell." Location: Archives, HSCA. 232
(These are on pages 374 and 375 of Volume VIII of the HSCA Appendix Volumes)
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=961
What it not included in this list of 63 documents, is the Selective Service Card.
This is very strange to me since the SS card was one of the very first pieces of evidence against LHO.
CE 2726 p. 105
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=141&tab=page
is a June 17, 1964 letter from Hoover to J. Lee Rankin concerning Marina's signature on the A.J. Hidell signature on the Fair Play for Cuba Committee membership card.
The FBI determined that Marina signed the FPCC membership card in the name of A.J. Hidell. Hoover says that Exhibits 404A, 408A, 409A and 420 are being returned to you. These are samples of Marina's handwriting.
(Which really doesn't tell us much since Marina admitted signing this card in her June 11th testimony).
These handwriting examples can be found in Volume XVII of the Hearings and Exhibits here:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134
They were introduced during Ruth Paine's WC testimony in Volume II.
Here for the first time (that I'm aware of) is a side by side comparison of the Hidell signature on the Selective Service card, and the rifle postal money order.
Compare the signatures of the Hidell Selective Service Card on CE 796 (Which is a photograph of CE 795) with the Hidell Signature on the Hidell Postal Service Money Order on CE 788. These are found in ol. XVII of the WC Hearings
What do you think?
Steve Thomas