Steve Thomas

John,

What an amazing story? This is the first time I have ever heard about the Columbia University speech.

This is what the Kennedy Library has to say about this alleged speech:

"President Kennedy's supposed speech at Columbia University, November, 1963.

Many references to this fictitious speech exist in assassination theorist material. Supposedly, the President was discussing changes in the Federal Reserve and the gold standard, and this topic was somehow linked to his assassination. Others also claim he said, "The high office of President has been used to foment a plot to destroy American freedom, and before I leave office I must inform the citizen of his plight." But the simple fact is that President John F. Kennedy did not speak at Columbia University in November of 1963.

Those who believe in the "fact" of President Kennedy having made such a speech, either at Columbia or some other place, will simply deny this denial. At best, they will say that because "all or most records" have been destroyed, we simply don't know the truth; at worst, they will claim that there is a conspiracy to keep this issue silent. If someone chooses to believe in the existence of this speech, he or she does so as a matter of faith, which is fine, as long as that person realizes that it is religion and not history in which he or she is dealing."

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Resou...sity+Speech.htm

Steve Thomas

Stephen,

Mark, good find. Do you happen to know who, if anyone took her place that day?

I guess that would depend on which Channel she normally broadcast on.

As Gary Mack correctly pointed out to me, Margie was a Secretary, not a Dispatcher.

Steve Thomas

Stephen,

Mark, good find. Do you happen to know who, if anyone took her place that day?

I guess that would depend on which Channel she normally broadcast on.

Two people operated Channel 1, and one person operated Channel 2.

At 10:00 AM the two Channel 1 operators were J. A. McDaniel and B.D. Huffstutler.

They went off duty at 12:25 and were replaced by C.E. Hulse and M.J. Jackson.

Later in the day (around the time of Tippit's shooting), Jackson was replaced by McDaniel.

I guess McDaniel had gone out to lunch.

Sgt. G.D. Henslee was the Dispatcher for Channel 2 all day.

Police transcripts CE 1974 at 23H832

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol23_0432b.htm

Steve Thomas

Duke,

Immediately thereafter, Hill said:

An accident investigator named Bob Apple was at the location at that time, and we were standing there together near his car

when the call came out that the suspect had been seen entering the Texas Theatre.

(ibid., emphasis added)

Apple neither testified nor made a report of his actions on 11/22, and he is not identified in any of the transcripts by name. In some earlier research, however, I was able to determine that the only Officer Apple on duty that day responded to a request by Officer Barnhart (38) at the behest of Captain Talbert (15) at or around 1:11 to 1:15 p.m. to pick up someone (apparently drunk) being detained by Barnhart (who rode a motorcycle and could not transport anyone) at the dead end of Laws, which is downtown. (CE1974, page 51)

(Unfortunately, I don't immediately remember the source for determining this information. If I come across it, I'll post it.)

Apple's transmissions were on Channel 2.

At 1:12 he radioed and said that he was at the three wheeler's position at the dead end.

Dispatch told him to take the drunk person to the police station and then contact Inspector Sawyer at Elm and Houston.

The Channel 1 broadcasts relating to the Church basement came at 1:33.

McDonald told Dispatch to send a squad car.

Dispatch called for a squad car and 66 (Patrolman Frank S. Williams) reported that he was "enroute".

At 1:34 Dispatch twice calls for Apple on Channel 1 and he does not respond, including one call specifically asking Apple for his location.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes3.htm

Steve Thomas

Lee,

Let's see if I can get away from the 'clusterpost' this way.

Posted list of attendees in the school newspaper, on the day of the event.

Great research work Lee.

Do you have any plans of trying to contact Elizabeth Cole again to show her that list of names?

Steve Thomas

Evan,

cops are people who generally relfect the values of the community they work in-if people are concerned about racist, crooked cops they need to look inward as they rarely brought in from Eastern Europe to patrol the streets of your community.

Welcome to the Forum.

When I read what you posted, I smiled.

My initial post back in 2005 had to do with the police in Dallas.

Here is what someone named Jerry Lawson posted on the Dallas Historical Society Forum page back in September. It had to do with something called, Shotgun Squads in Dallas in the 1960's:

"In the late 60's I was managing the Pizza Inn on West Davis. The manager of the store on South Lancaster got sick one night and I went to cover his shift. When I got there he called me to tell me about the shotgun squad and fill me in on their procedure. Two of them would arrive just after dark and set up behind a piece of plywood in the back dining room with a clear view of the cash register. If someone was robbing me, I was to take two steps back from the register, raise my hands in the air, and loudly say "do you want the change too?". That was the signal for them to fire. Sure enough, right after dark two Dallas police officers walked in the door with shotguns. They were arguing (in jest) about who would get the first shot that night. One of them said "well, you go ahead and take the first shot. You're going to miss anyway and I'll still have to bring him down".

The night was uneventful until my district supervisor walked in the door. He stopped at the cash register, leaned over the counter and started a conversation with me about how I liked working that restaurant. I always thought my superviser was a jerk and a pain in the ass. I thought for just a few seconds about taking two steps back, raising my hands in the air, and asking him if he wanted the change too. Of course I didn't, but he'll never know just how close he came."

Steve Thomas

Greg,

In it’s final report, the WC listed its conclusions based on the evidence it had been provided with by various agencies, and from the sworn testimony of witnesses it called.

Conclusion 6 was short and to the point:

Within 80 minutes of the assassination and 35 minutes of the Tippit killing Oswald resisted arrest at the theatre by attempting to shoot another Dallas police officer.

The after action reports by the arresting officers can be found in the DPD Archives, Box# 2, Folder# 7

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm

They were filed between December 2 - 5, 1963.

Here is what McDonald wrote in his Report:

M.N. McDonald: "When I got within a foot of him, I told the suspect to get to his feet. He stood up immediately, bringing his hands up about shoulder high and saying, "Well it's over now". I was reaching for his waist and he struck me on the nose with his left hand. With his right hand, he reached for his waist and both our hands were on a pistol that was stuck in his belt under his shirt. We both fell into the seats struggling for the pistol. ... I managed to get my right hand on the pistol over the suspect's hand. I could feel his hand on the trigger. I then got a secure grip on the butt of the pistol. I jerked the pistol and as it was clearing the suspect's clothing and grip I heard the snap of the hammer and the pistol crossed over my left cheek, causing a four inch scratch".

As you can see from reading these reports, at no time in the first 10 to 12 days following the assassination, did any of the arresting officers on the scene claim that Oswald tried to shoot M.N. McDonald. If the pistol did go off and cause a "snap" of the hammer falling into place, it was because McDonald jerked it out of Oswald's pants.

Oswald didn't take the gun out of his pants, McDonald did.

Steve Thomas

James,

Even the existing Tramps photographs don't make a whole lot of sense either. In the one where they are walking alongside the TSBD (the one with the alleged Lansdale figure), Bass is bringing up the rear, and at quite some distance.

When they are crossing Elm and then Houston, Bass is now way out front.

Cops?

What cops?

*grin*

Steve Thomas

Ron,

This story seems pretty well impossible to sort out.

I know what you mean.

Denis Morissette mounted several documents relating to the three tramps, including an HSCA interview and a 1992 FBI interview with Harkness.

http://www.geocities.com/denismorissette/Documents.html

In those, he only speaks of remembering Billy Bass and Marvin Wise being invloved.

However, the tramps taken off the train by Bass and Wise were taken off a train about a half a mile to the south of the TSBD at approximately 2:00 in the afternoon.

In this 1974 memo I referred to above, Harkness talks about taking the bums off the train "behind the TSBD appriximately ten minutes after the President was shot.

I myself believe that the three tramps were arrested twice that day. I would just like to verify through photographic evidence, that the tramps Harkness arrested behind the TSBD were the same people.

One page of that series of 1974 memos talks about photographs never published before.

Steve Thomas

In FBI Admin Folder F7, pp 120 and 121, there is a memo to Mr. Jenkins from J.J. McDermott dated 9/12/1974.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=120

In this memo, McDermott talks about an album of photographs furnished the Director by Don Donahue, Special Assistant to Senator Henry Jackson of Washington. The album of photos had been supplied by Michael Canfield.

McDermott goes on to say that one of the photographs, photograph# 4 shows a police officer with three "bums" who were arrested behind the TSBD shortly after the President was shot.

Freelance writer, Sam Jaffe identified the police officer as David Harkness. Jaffe claimed to have talked to Harkness "last week" and Harkness stated he recalled finding the bums behind the Depository about ten minutes after Kennedy was shot."

This photo is obviously not any of the photos showing the three tramps being led through Dealey Plaza by officers, Bass, Vaughn and Wise around 2:00 in the afternoon.

Has anyone ever seen the photo being described?

Steve Thomas

James,

As to the hand written notes, it is difficult to say but is that 'Helms' I see there? Mmm.

James

This came up before I think.

The memo was prepared for Richard Helms in preparation for his testimony before one of the government bodies. I don't remember if it was the Senate Select or the HSCA.

Steve Thomas

Francesca,

Hi Steve,

which edition of the book do you have? I'm reading it at the moment but my book only has 588 pages, it's the 2003 edition. I can't find the bit you refer to.

Thanks

I have the 1992 edition. It has 824 pages.

Steve

This coffee table book is due to be published in December.

See my Library's entry. We are one year old.

http://www.ohio.lib.in.us/librarieswelove.pdf

Steve Thomas

On page 770 of, "The Man Who Knew Too Much", Dick Russell says that there is a State Department Memo dated July 19, 1963 entitled, "Cuban Exile Plotting" at the Kennedy Library. The memo says that a source said that the John Birch Society types were backing "certain Cuban exiles of a militant bent..."

Has anyone seen this memo or have it?

It doesn't show up in a NARA search, or at the Mary Ferrell Foundation website.

Steve Thomas

The footnote to this reference is identified as JFK Exhibit 101210.

Sorry, the footnote is actually JFK Document 010210

Steve Thomas

On page 132 of the HSCA Report, they are discussing anti-Castro Cubans, and in particular, a tape recording of a meeting between right wing people and Cuban exiles held on October 1, 1963 in Farmer's Branch, Texas.

The footnote to this reference is identified as JFK Exhibit 101210.

Has anyone ever heard this tape recording, or have a transcript of it.

I am interested in learning who attended this meeting.

Lucille Connell told Harold Weisberg that John Martino also was in Dallas on October 1, 1963 to give a speech at Town Hall. Lucille Connell attended this speech. So did Sarita Odio.

http://ajweberman.com/nodules2/nodulec18.htm

Steve Thomas

Lee,

Lee, Thanks for taking the time to do this.

BK

Me too.

Steve

Robert,

It should also [perhap's not on this thread, Oh Well] be mentioned that at NARA there are, under the basic search 'MADRID' as in Madrid, Spain as of 11/19/06 there were 297 hit's, many of them [not surprisingly] include JMWAVE and/or related Agency personnel. Did some of 'them, go thataway?'

You might be interested in this document, entitled, "Cuban Exiles Activities in Spain."

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=14253

Last week I got to wondering if Cuban exiles, Jean Souetre of the OAS, and E. Howard Hunt were in Madrid at the same time.

There are several CIA documents about Souetre being in Madrid trying to get CIA backing for a coup against DeGaulle.

Did they meet?

Steve Thomas

Raymond,

The Dallas police files and the testimony of Forrest Sorrels show that Brennan DID attend a witness lineup on Friday night, but "failed to identify" anyone. Lee Oswald was in that lineup, according to Sorrels and Dallas police records.

I think Fritz could have strangled Sorrels.

When he testified to the WC, Fritz said:

Mr. McCLOY. Were you present at the showup at which Brennan was the witness?

Mr. FRITZ. Brennan?

Mr. McCLOY. Brennan was the alleged----

Mr. FRITZ. Is that the man that the Secret Service brought over there, Mr. Sorrels brought over?

Mr. McCLOY. I don't know whether Mr. Sorrels----

Mr. FRITZ. I don't think I was present but I will tell you what, I helped Mr. Sorrels find the time that that man--we didn't show that he was shown at all on our records, but Mr. Sorrels called me and said he did show him and he wanted me to give him the time of the showup. I asked him to find out from his officers who were with Mr. Brennan the names of the people that we had there, and he gave me those two Davis sisters, and he said, when he told me that, of course, I could tell what showup it was and then I gave him the time.

If you look at the lineups in the DPD Archives, sure enough, Brennan does not appear in any of their listings, except one - that one you'll find in Box 6, Folder# 1, Item# 73, page 3.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box6.htm

In all other listings of the lineups, you find the witnesses, followed by the officers, followed by those in the lineup.

In this one case, Brennan is added at the bottom of the page, as though he was added as an afterthought.

When Brennan "failed to identify" Oswald, the DPD tried to write him out of the whole case.

Sorrels' ID of Brennan at a lineup forced the DPD to add him back in to the picture.

Fritz testified on April 22, 1964 and Sorrels testified on May 6th and 7th.

I think as Sorrels was getting prepared for his testimony, he called Fritz on the Brennan matter.

Steve Thomas

Lee,

w.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=54[/url]

It will be interesting to see if Steve's sister turns anything up. I sort of lay odds against it.

It would be interesting to find out if the University of Texas had anyone representing them at this conference.

- lee

The Library at Farleigh Dickinson University DOES have the yearbook from 1963, but will not loan it out, nor give out any information over the phone. You have to go to the Library and look at it there.

So, anybody in the neighborhood of Farleigh Dickinson?

James Richards said that Fermin de Goicochea Sanchez, aka George Parrel, who was a student at the Univ of Dallas, did go to New York City in the early part of November to attend a student conference.

(This would be right around the same time period as Elizabeth Cole's conference).

Steve Thomas

Michael,

Page 103

On August 1st, 1963, The New York Times reported anti-Castro Cuban exiles had formed an alliance with members of the right-wing Minutemen organization. For a time, this illegal arms-Minutemen-anti-Castro Cuban exile story was known only from an internal memorandum Commission counsel Griffin had sent to J. Lee Rankin dated April 16th, 1964. Griffin, together with Commission counsel Hubert, had been attempting to follow up a series of leads, rumors, facts, speculations, and suspicions: that links might be established between Oswald and Ruby, if only indirectly; and that Ruby's associations with organized crime might reveal evidence of conspiracy (see, for example, the Hubert-Griffin internal memo of March 20th, 1964). So the Hubert-Griffin memoranda were filled with frustratingly-unexplored leads: the two Commission lawyers were eventually to characterize their own attempt at a Ruby investigation as "inadequate." And here was one more unexplored lead which counsel Griffin reported: in late 1963, United States Treasury agents had arrested a Dallas gunsmith - a member of the Minutemen - for illegally supplying Cuban exiles with firearms.

Thank you very much. It's been a frustrating couple of days because an online database search of the New York Times has failed to produce the article that Evica cites and I haven't been able to find the Griffin to Rankin memo he talks about.

On July 31, 1963 a cuban exile training camp at Lake Ponchatrain, LA is raided by the FBI. Many arms and dynamite are seized. The supplier was Richard Lauchuli, co-founder of the Minutemen.

In October, 1963, DRE leader, Manuel Salvat travels from Miami to Dallas on a fund rasing tour. While there, he recruits Fermin de Goicochea Sanchez, aka George Perrel to be his heavy weapons purchaser.

On January 16, 1964 ATF Agent, Frank Ellsworth is interviewed by the FBI about John Thomas Masen, also a member of the Minutemen.

Masen told Ellsworth that Orcarberro had been trying to buy guns and bazookas from Masen.

Masen told Ellsworth that Rodriguez and George F. Parrel were leaders of the local DRE and also members of Alpha-66

Masen told Ellsworth that George Parrel, an associate of Orcarberro, had also been trying to buy guns from him.

They had made purchases from him and that they presently have a large cache of arms located somewhere in Dallas, although he did not know the location.

Thomas Arthur Vallee was a member of the John Birch Society.

Joseph Milteer was a member of just about every right wing organization that came along.

Steve Thomas

Michael,

Evica's book has a name index only.

Page 287:

I did not read anything about a pact or agreement being signed.

Could you look on page 103?

Thanks,

Steve Thomas

Michael,

Page 287:

Arrested with Sam Benton, among others were (1) Acelo Pedro Amores...and (2)Richard Lauchli, Jr., a founder of the Minutemen. Lauchli manufactured weapons in Collinsville, Illinois, and in 1964 was arrested by Treasurey agents for violating Federal firearms laws with Cuban exiles and mercenaries linked to the Caribbean complex. Cubela's friend "A" - like all the other Cuban exiles involved - was connected to a Lake Ponchartrain training camp and arsenal run by CIA-associated Syndicate, Caribbean, and Minuteman figures.

He cites a story in the Washington Post dated August 1, 1963 and The Assassination Chain by Leek and Sugar. Leek's book has about 10 pages of detailed info on the Minutemen in Chapter 9, entitled The Right-Wing Extremist Scenario.

I did not read anything about a pact or agreement being signed.

Thank you

Steve Thomas

Lee,

- Ex-Senator Raymond Baker alleged that Cole's Mother told him that a Cuban student with the same last name [as the Cuban student witnessed by Elisabeth] was arrested and released in Dallas 11/22/63 - no record I was able to find, and Baker fails to document that name.

My sister is a librarian in New Jersey. I've asked her to contact the Farleigh Dickinson University library folks to see if they have a 1963 yearbook.

I'll let you know what I find out.

Steve Thomas

Does anyone on the Forum own the book, "And We Are All Mortal" by George Michael Evica?

If you do, does it have an index?

Is there an index listing for Minutemen?

If so, can you find a reference for the Mintemen and cuban exiles signing some sort of pact or agreement?

Does this say that an article can be found in the August 1, 1963 issue of the New York Times relating to this agreement?

I read the book not too long ago, but Evica did not provide a footnote on this. I want to make sure I got the citation right before I go looking for the 8/1/63 issue of the NYT.

Steve Thomas