Steve Thomas

Maarten,

Hi John,

Could this be him? From "A revisionist History ."

I believe that is Larry Florer.

Steve Thomas

What is this?

Steve Thomas

Okay, so it's a blob.

But it's a blob that has a different color than the surrounding foliage or the tree.

And it "appears" to cast a shadow that seems consistent with the position of the sun at around 12:30 in the afternoon.

So, what is it?

Steve Thomas

Craid,

What is what? Care to explain where you are going with this?

I think I see something sticking out over the edge of the concrete wall.

To me, it doesn't appear to be part of the foliage.

I wondered how you interprted it.

Steve Thomas

Craig,

For those interested a downsampled and levels corrected copy of the drum scan 1967 Thompson copy negative of the moorman is available here for a limited time. The file is 16"x13" at 300dpi. It is saved in lossless PNG format and is 17mb uncompressed. The file image can be found here:

http://www.pbase.com/infocusinc/image/66990161/original

What is this?

Steve Thomas

I was watching a google video put together by William Reymond.

It lasts an hour and has footage I had never seen before.

Be forwarned though, it's in French, so you might not understand everything that is said.

http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=284...58772&q=jfk

Steve Thomas

Wim,

I asked Fabian the same question just 2 days ago. He says he doesn't know any person by that name. But it just struck me that it's probably a transcription error for "Veciana".

That makes a lot of sense.

Steve Thomas

Dave,

Hi James,

Is Antonio Crespi aka Nico Crespi? Nico was a Dallas friend and contact of Loran Hall. Maybe Gerry will know.

Dave

I'm going to say no.

In Mary Ferrell's database, she identifies them as two different people, and in A Farewell to Justice, Joan Mellen says that Nico Crespi was a Ford Motor salesman. Antonio Crespi was an employee of the Republic Transcom Co.

Steve Thomas

Navarro was interviewed on 2/26/63. In his FBI interview, he said that his cousins, Jorge Rodriguez and Juan Albareda were also employees at Curtis-Mathes.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=187

Jorge Rodriguez Alvareda, an employee of Curtis-Mathes advised on July 3, 1963, he had been authorized in a letter from Osorio Davila Santana, Secretary General of this organization at Miami, Florida to proceed with the organization of a Dallas unit."

The organization ?

JURE

FBI Memo 5/28/64

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=2

In his FBI interview, Antonio Navarro told Heitman that he was well acquainted with Father McChann.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=186

So, we've got JURE people, 30th of November people, Alpha 66 and SNFE people all working at that Curtis Mathes plant.

Steve Thomas

Fabian Escalante:

Posted by Wim Dankbaar in the Education Forum 9/11/06

"and in our organization the index is always made by the first surname not by the second one. But when we found out that Oscar Berot was Manuel Rodriguez, then we found another interesting information. Manuel Rodriguez, Oscar Berot told one of our agents, first of all that he was in Dallas because he was the officer 66 [Alpha-66] delegate in Dallas. And he was the delegate for office 66 in Dallas and if anyone came to know that he and Bercian took part in the plot to kill Kennedy. They were going to be killed. He was already living in Puerto Rico or a little after that he went to live in Puerto Rico. And

another information comes from a very close person of Bercian, I think... some of you have already interviewed. This person told us that Phillips threatened Bercian in order for him to not reveal his true identity. I'm not going to reveal his name, but I will only tell you that some of you have had interviews with this person (don't talk about it) ?__________________ I cannot reveal this on account of an ethics principle for the same cause, because some of you will not make such revelations."

Does anyone know who Bercian was?

Steve Thomas

Dave,

Hi James,

Is Antonio Crespi aka Nico Crespi? Nico was a Dallas friend and contact of Loran Hall. Maybe Gerry will know.

Dave

On 2/15/63, Dr. Carlos Taboada Millas, an employee of the VA Hospital, was interviewed by the FBI vis a vis Antonio Navarra and Navarro's attempt to bring two of his nephews to the United States. Taboada said the father of these two nephews was known by the name "Nico". "Nico" was known to be violently anti-Castro.

"Nico" was supposed to have been a former policeman at the University of Havana.

Navarro told Taboada that he was "an aquaintance and personal friend" of "Nico."

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=183

In one breath, Navarro says that "Nico" is the father of his two nephews.

In the next breath, he says that he is a "personal friend" of Nico.

Were Crespi and Navarro brother-in-laws?

Was Crespi a former policeman?

Steve Thomas

Dave,

Hi James,

Is Antonio Crespi aka Nico Crespi? Nico was a Dallas friend and contact of Loran Hall. Maybe Gerry will know.

Dave

I think so. I'll go back and see if I can find that.

Navarro was interviewed on 2/26/63. In his FBI interview, he said that his cousins, Jorge Rodriguez and Juan Albareda were also employees at Curtis-Mathes.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=187

The reason I got started on this is because Manuel Rodriguez told the FBI that b-weekly meetings were held at 3126 Harlandale and that they were attended by up to 20 persons.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=222

I got to wondering if some of those people might not have come from the roster of Curtis-Mathes employees.

Steve Thomas

FBI interview of Miranda by FBI SA Wallace Heitman on 3/26/63

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=197

Jesus Miranda Llaveria, a Cuban refugee who presently resides at 5702 Victor St., Dallas and is employed at the Curtis-Mathes Plant in Dallas, stated he knew Antonio Arturo Hilario Navarro Aulet as they both were employed at the same factory.

Heitman interviewed Navarro on 2/26/63

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=186

Navarro resided at 1721 Pratt St., Dallas

Curtis-Mathes was at 2220 Young St.

Antonio Crespi Larralde 2931 Pleasant Dr., Dallas was interviewed on 2/20/63 by Wallace Heitman.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=184

While he is presently an employee of the Republic Transcom Co., “Crespi stated that he was formerly employed by the Curtis-Mathes Manufacturing Company in Dallas and had there become aquainted with Antonio Navarro, who was and still is an employee of Curtis-Mathes. Crespi said that he and other Cuban refugees who are employed at this Company had often discussed political matters, particularly the political situation in Cuba.

Report of Wallace Heitman March 7, 1963

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=179

“On September 13, 1962, Delfin Leyva (Avila), who resides at 2212 Kirby St. with his brother Francisco, above and is an employee of Curtis-Mathes…”

Francisco was also employed at Curtis-Mathes.

Unsigned FBI memo dated Miami, FL May 29, 1964

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=79 page 3

“On April 12, 1963, Francisco Leyva Avila, Dallas, Texas representative of the 30th of November Revolutionary Movement advised that the Dallas delegation had issued a declaration expressing disagreement with the official action of the United States Government in forbidding hit and run attacks on Cuba…”

FBI interview of Rodriguez by SA Wallace Heitman May 25, 1964

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=222

Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro voluntarily appeared and was interviewed at the office of the FBI in Dallas, Texas. He furnished his home address as 2311 Nicholson Street, Apartment D, home telephone WH 6-8429. He said he was employed at the Curtis Mathes Manufacturing Company, 2220 Young Street, Dallas, Texas.

Robert Harris in the alt.conspiracy.jfk newsgroup 9/24/96

Dick Russell, author "The Man Who Knew Too Much", established that the

house at 3126 Harlandale was rented for the refugees by a Manuel Orcaberro

Rodriguez. Rodriguez was cited in a Secret Service memo dated 11/24/63 by

an informant as,

"..known to be violently anti-President Kennedy.".

The report also established that Rodriguez was a serious enough threat to

the President to be placed on the Secret Service's "Protective Research"

list.

CE 2943 26H402

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=146509

Fr. Walter McChann was the chaplain of the Catholic Cuban Relief Committee. “The Committee contacted employers in an attempt to find places for Cubans to work.”

CD 205 p. 640

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=643

FBI interview of L.C. Connell 11/29/63

“Mrs. C.L. Connell, 6949 Lake Shore Dr. Dallas, Texas advised she has been a voluntary assistant to the Catholic Cuban Relief Committee of Dallas, Texas for approximately the last year. “

I haven't found yet where the CCRC contacted Curtis-Mathes in particular, but this could conceivably put Sylvia Odio, McChann and Connell in the same circles as Rodriguez of Alpha 66 and SNFE and Avila of the 30th of November group.

Steve Thomas

This is from page 44 of the HSCA Executive Session of March 9, 1977

McBee was interviewed by the FBI on December 19, 1963.

His interview is at 23H110 also CD 105 p. 112

He felt that Ruby was bisexual.

In his interview he said that he knew of no association between Ruby and Oswald.

Steve Thomas

This is from page 44 of the HSCA Executive Session of March 9, 1977

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=46

There is no indication that McBee testified to the Warren Commission, or the HSCA. I haven't found where Tannenbaum followed up on this.

Now, we have information from an individual that there is a gentleman in Dallas who is prepared to come forward. It is our belief, we have not talked to him; an individual

who has talked to him has passed this on to us his name is Edward McBee. He was a bartender who worked for Jack Ruby and other nightclub owners in Dallas and he, in fact, testified before the Warren Commission that he did not know a Oswald and he knew of no relationship between Oswald and Jack Ruby.

He presently is recovering from cancer and has indicated to the individual who called

us that approximately eleven days before the assassination there was a meeting in his club where he worked and that the individuals who were present at this meeting were Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Ruby, a fellow by the name of Emilio Santana, Guy Bannister

and approximately four or five other individuals from New Orleans and Mexico City.

Let us just quickly look at some of the individuals who were at this meeting that we know about. He positively identified photograph, when showed to him by a researcher, of Guy Bannister. Guy Bannister -- this gets back to Mr. Thone's question about the Fair Play for Cuba activity.

Guy-Bannister was a former FBI officer in charge of the Chicago office…

Emilio Santana is another individual a member of this No Name Key Group.

We have photographs of him.

Mr. Fithian.

You say on page 13 - and you just recently said, and before you get too far beyond this,

you said “Recently McBee recanted his story. He now states" and then you go on to indicate what he states about the group meeting in his tavern and so on. He states this to

whom?

Mr. Tannenbaum. He stated it to one Gary Shaw, an individual who has been active

in research in the assassination for some years.

Mr,.Fithian. You have not had any correspondence with him?

Mr. Tanenbaum. No; we have not.

Mr. Fauntroy. Would the gentleman yield?

I would be happy to yield.

Mr. Fauntroy.

What is the feasibility of bringing Mr. McBee here, both in terms of not compromising

his reputation and in terms of his health?

Mr. Tanenbaum. I have not spoken to Mr. McBee and I cannot answer the question

until we actually do speak with him in Dallas, which we have to do.

Mr. Preyer.

Do you know of any way to corroborate McBee? If you could substantiate his testimony

the whole Warren Commission is anchored on the premise that Ruby and Oswald

have no connection with each other. If this, and what you say later, could be demonstrated, it could be very important.

Mr. Tanenbaum. Before we could be in a position, Mr. Preyer, to corroborate anything he said, we obviously, in the very, very first instance, we have to speak to him in person.

Mr. McKinney. I wonder if this is the sort of smoking gun that Congress is looking for? It is not proof, but it is a big question. The mere fact that there would be a man who was there and was going to testify under oath certainly would assuage a lot of my colleagues

Mr. Tanenbaum.

If our budget will permit, we will make any effort to go down to Dallas and speak with him.

Mr. Preyer. Is this the type of witness you could ask to take the polygraph test?

Mr. Tanenbaum. I do not see any reason why we could not do that.

Steve Thomas

With the blossoming of blogs as a way of distributing information, I thought some of you might find this site of some use. It's a way of searching blogs.

http://www.icerocket.com/

(blossoming of blogs...heh, heh, heh)

:-)

Steve Thomas

Mark,

The issue of the shell casings being found in the yard, or shrubbery, can still be explained, IMO. Don't have an answer yet, but there must be one.

I always liked this one:

Representative FORD. You saw him take the shells out of the gun?

Mrs. DAVIS. No, sir; he was shaking them.

Representative FORD. He was shaking them?

Mrs. DAVIS. He was shaking them. I didn't see him actually use his hand to take them out. I mean he was sort of shaking them out.

Representative FORD. Did you find this one bullet at the point where you saw him shake the gun?

Mrs. DAVIS. No, sir; it was around the side of the house.

Steve Thomas

Michael,

Who was the unnamed officer that told Mooney to cover the Depository at a time when many (including Mooney) felt the shots came from the railroad yards?

The only officer I can remember being told that the shots came from the Depository was John Wiseman. The Hesters told him that.

Steve Thomas

Peter,

...and can we pin down which of the 3[!] Tippits on the force Ruby knew by that name....perhaps from one of his staff or friends?

Jack Ruby did not call G.M. Tippit "Slick".

Steve Thomas

Duke,

There is elsewhere testimony from a police officer - I'm thinking Inspector Sawyer, but could be mistaken - that he and a couple of other officers went in the front door and took the elevator by the front door up to the second floor, and thereafter went to the northwest corner where there was a "storage room," and then went back downstairs.

One of the questions I've got for someone who worked at TSBD during that era include how the elevators could have been kept from moving. We know that if someone rode the elevator - at least the freight elevator - and didn't close the doors, then the elevator could not be called to another floor for someone else. Was it also possible to have opened another door on a floor where the elevator was NOT and keep it from moving, that is, a contact being broken and stopping the elevator from travelling? A "power outage" could have seemed to have occurred if this was the case.

When B&T got to the fifth floor, they found and got onto the passenger elevator there; the freight elevator was not there, but had apparently gone down to another floor (Truly didn't state where it had gone to or if he had even looked), an action that he attributed to Dougherty.

If that is so (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), then here's another important question: who was Mooney referring to when he said "And I met some other officers coming down, plainclothes, and I believe they were deputy sheriffs. They were coming down the staircase. But I kept going up"???

Over the last couple of days, I've been mulling over this west elevator business, trying to correlate the statements of everyone concerned - Adams and Baker and Truly and Bonnie Williams and Hank Norman, etc.

Truly said that when he first tried to call the freight elevator, it wouldn't respond. Baker said that he looked up the shaft and saw the bottom of the elevator, "three or floors up". But when they got to the fifth floor, the elevator wasn't there. Like you said, he attibuted that to Jack Dougherty, but that was only a guess.

I've been wondering who took that elevator, because after hearing the shots and running to the west window, Wliiiams and Jarman and Norman had to run down the stairs because the elevator they rode up to the fifth floor on, that west freight elevator was gone. Norman said that he closed the gates "to make it available to anyone who wanted it."

Who took that elevator so that it was unavailable to Williams et al, and then took it back up so that it was then unavailable to Truly and Baker?

Baker said that he encountered Sawyer on his way back down from the roof, but couldn't remember on which floor - he thought it might have been the third or fourth. I suspect it might have been the fifth, because Sawyer said, "And I went with a couple of officers and a man who I believed worked in the building. The elevator was just to the right of the main entrance, and we went to the top floor, which was pointed out to me by this other man as being the floor that we were talking about. We had talked about the fifth floor. And we went back to the storage area and looked around and didn't see anything."

Baker said it was 90 seconds between the shots and when he encountered Oswald, spent 30 seconds interviewing LHO and spent 5 minutes on the roof. So he is encountering Sawyer within 7 or 8 minutes of the shooting.

I think it might have been Sawyer that Luke Mooney was talking about, although why he didn't identify one of his own Inspectors is odd.

Steve Thomas

Duke,

It is in the testimony of Luke Mooney and a female TSBD worker; sorry, don't have the references at hand. Mooney had ridden one of the elevators to the second floor where someone wanted to get off and two women wanted to get on. When they closed the doors to start up again, the elevator did not operate, so they all got off and continued upward on foot. "Her" testimony pretty well corroborates his.

I was going to quote Luke Mooney's testimony, but I see that Michael already has.

I believe the female TSBD worker is Victoria Adams.

Victoria Adams was on the fourth floor, heard three shots, ran down the stairs in the northwest corner of the building, encountered Billy Lovelady and Shelley, ran out the Houston St. dock, ran to the railroad tracks and was ordered back in the building by a policeman. She went southwest around the corner of the building, went down the Elm St. extension and talked to a coworker on the steps in front of the TDBD. She asked permission of a policeman to enter the building because she worked there.

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do ?

Miss ADAMS - Following that, I pushed the button for the passenger elevator, but the power had been cut off on the elevator, so I took the stairs to the second floor.

Mr. BELIN - You then went all the way back to the northwest corner of the building and took the same set of stairs you had previously taken to come down, or did you take the stairs by the passenger elevator?

Miss ADAMS - By the passenger elevator.

Mr. BELIN - Do those stairs go above floor 2?

Miss ADAMS - No, sir; they didn't.

Mr. BELIN - What did you do when you got to the second floor?

Miss ADAMS - I went into the Texas School Book Depository office and just listened for a few minutes to the people that were congregating there, and decided there wasn't anything interesting going on, and went out and walked around the hall to the freight elevator meaning the one on the northwest corner.

Mr. BELIN - Would it have been the west or the east? The one nearest the stairs or the other one?

Miss ADAMS - Yes; the one nearest the stairs.

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?

Miss ADAMS - I went into the elevator which was stopped on the second floor, with two men who were dressed in suit and hats, and I assumed they were plainclothesmen.

Mr. BELIN - What did you do then?

Miss ADAMS - I tried to get the elevator to go to the fourth floor, but it wasn't operating, so the gentlemen lifted the elevator gate and we went out and ran up the stairs to the fourth floor.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/adams_v.htm

Now, Marion Baker and Roy Truly had taken that east passenger elevator to the seventh floor, and after checking out the roof, rode the same elevator back down.

Mr. BELIN - When--did you take an elevator down or did you take the stairs down?

Mr. BAKER - We took the elevator down.

Mr. BELIN - Did you take the same elevator down you took up or did you take a different elevator down?

Mr. BAKER - We took the same one.

So, sometime after Marion Baker had returned from the roof, and before Victoria Adams got there, the power went out to the east elevator.

Luke Mooney went in the back of the TSBD and jumped on the west elevator:

Mr. Ball.

You took the west one, or the east one?

Mr. Mooney.

I would say it was the west elevator, the one nearest to the staircase.

Mr. Ball.

Did it work with a push button?

Mr. Mooney.

It was a push button affair the best I can remember. got hold of the controls and it worked. We started up and got to the second. I was going to let them off and go on up. And when we got there, the power undoubtedly cut off, because we had no more power on the elevator.

So, sometime in that narrow time frame power goes out to "both" elevators.

Steve Thomas

Duke,

It is in the testimony of Luke Mooney and a female TSBD worker; sorry, don't have the references at hand. Mooney had ridden one of the elevators to the second floor where someone wanted to get off and two women wanted to get on. When they closed the doors to start up again, the elevator did not operate, so they all got off and continued upward on foot. "Her" testimony pretty well corroborates his.

I was going to quote Luke Mooney's testimony, but I see that Michael already has.

I believe the female TSBD worker is Victoria Adams.

Victoria Adams was on the fourth floor, heard three shots, ran down the stairs in the northwest corner of the building, encountered Billy Lovelady and Shelley, ran out the Houston St. dock, ran to the railroad tracks and was ordered back in the building by a policeman. She went southwest around the corner of the building, went down the Elm St. extension and talked to a coworker on the steps in front of the TDBD. She asked permission of a policeman to enter the building because she worked there.

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do ?

Miss ADAMS - Following that, I pushed the button for the passenger elevator, but the power had been cut off on the elevator, so I took the stairs to the second floor.

Mr. BELIN - You then went all the way back to the northwest corner of the building and took the same set of stairs you had previously taken to come down, or did you take the stairs by the passenger elevator?

Miss ADAMS - By the passenger elevator.

Mr. BELIN - Do those stairs go above floor 2?

Miss ADAMS - No, sir; they didn't.

Mr. BELIN - What did you do when you got to the second floor?

Miss ADAMS - I went into the Texas School Book Depository office and just listened for a few minutes to the people that were congregating there, and decided there wasn't anything interesting going on, and went out and walked around the hall to the freight elevator meaning the one on the northwest corner.

Mr. BELIN - Would it have been the west or the east? The one nearest the stairs or the other one?

Miss ADAMS - Yes; the one nearest the stairs.

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?

Miss ADAMS - I went into the elevator which was stopped on the second floor, with two men who were dressed in suit and hats, and I assumed they were plainclothesmen.

Mr. BELIN - What did you do then?

Miss ADAMS - I tried to get the elevator to go to the fourth floor, but it wasn't operating, so the gentlemen lifted the elevator gate and we went out and ran up the stairs to the fourth floor.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/adams_v.htm

Now, Marion Baker and Roy Truly had taken that east passenger elevator to the seventh floor, and after checking out the roof, rode the same elevator back down.

Mr. BELIN - When--did you take an elevator down or did you take the stairs down?

Mr. BAKER - We took the elevator down.

Mr. BELIN - Did you take the same elevator down you took up or did you take a different elevator down?

Mr. BAKER - We took the same one.

So, sometime after Marion Baker had returned from the roof, and before Victoria Adams got there, the power went out to the east elevator.

Luke Mooney went in the back of the TSBD and jumped on the west elevator:

Mr. Ball.

You took the west one, or the east one?

Mr. Mooney.

I would say it was the west elevator, the one nearest to the staircase.

Mr. Ball.

Did it work with a push button?

Mr. Mooney.

It was a push button affair the best I can remember. got hold of the controls and it worked. We started up and got to the second. I was going to let them off and go on up. And when we got there, the power undoubtedly cut off, because we had no more power on the elevator.

So, sometime in that narrow time frame power goes out to "both" elevators.

Steve Thomas

J.L.,

Additionally, in the frame 202 of the Zapruder film...

I don't think Willis 5 equates to Z 202.

Look at the position of the left arm and hand of the driver in Z 202, and then look at the left arm and hand in Willis 5 of the person you are calling number 2.

Are you sure that the occupant of the car in Willis is the driver?

Steve Thomas

James,

Steve,

Yes, you are indeed correct. I had forgotten about him.

As a footnote, during the mid 1970's, G.M. Tippit was the project co-ordinator for securing new helicopters for the DPD. The money came in the form of a grant handed out by the Texas Criminal Justice Council.

G.M. was also the first Secretary of the Dallas Police Association - an early form of union activity. It caused an awful lot of heartbreak and division within the DPD ranks at the time.

Steve Thomas

Duke,

There were two "Tippits" (phonetic) on DPD ... but the other was spelled Tippett. I don't recall the details offhand, but I recall that the latter was assigned downtown and frequented the Carousel. The pronunciation being the same, it is easy to understand how one could be confused with the other.

Yes, there were two Tippit's on the force. The other was G.M. Tippit. He was in Special Services - Vice.

He knew Jack when Jack was running the Silver Spur. They liked each other.

And as James has mentioned, there was a Tippett on the force as well.

Steve Thomas

Lee,

Does anyone have the original letter that they could post?

- lee

You can find a copy of the letter on page 6 of this memo:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=6