Steve Thomas

David, If you ever see I camp roster, would you let me know? I've been interested in the MDC and this camp for a while. Thanks, Steve Thomas

Ron, I was jsut reading throught the Senate Select Committee interview of FBI Agent Bob Barrett. He was recounting information on his FD-302 Report written on November 22, 1963. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...14&relPageId=20 From the 1975 interview: "Mr. Wallach stated that in my FD-302 I had stated that I heard Officer M.N. McDonald making a statement from the inside of the darkened portion of the theater, "Here he is, and then observed Officer McDonald lunge towards an individual later identified as Lee Harvey Oswald and that these two individuals started to scuffle." Steve Thomas

I started to read through the HSCA testimony of James Wilcott on the History Matters website, and ran across this line on page 1: "Approximately April-June, 1963, Cryptonym for Oswald Project approx. RX-ZIM. Standard two consonants followed by 2, 3, 6 letter pronouncable word." http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsc...lcott_0003a.htm Has anyone ever heard of RX-ZIM? I did a search in the NARA database and came up empty. April - June would have been the time when LHO was in New Orleans Steve Thomas

Tim, Is the Mary Ferrell website down for you as well as of Friday 12/30? Steve Thomas

In 1975, Elizabeth Cole told the FBI that in the first week of November, 1963 she attended a Foreign Students Convention in New Jersey. While there, she overheard a telephone conversation between a Cuban student and an unknown third party. In the phone conversation, the Cuban student related that JFK was going to be assassinated. The date of the assassination, the City of Dallas and a book company were also mentioned. Cole said that she called the FBI when she returned to NYC, but never heard back from them. You can read the details here: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...32&relPageId=54 It is alleged that the name of the Cuban student overheard by Miss Cole has the same last name as that of a Cuban picked up and released in Dallas on 11/22/63. See here: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...2&relPageId=112 Steve Thomas

John, Here's some of the timelines based on the DPD dispatch tapes: 1:45 Dispatch reported a "suspect: just went into the Texas Theater on West Jefferson 1:46 85 reported "at the Theater" 1:46 492 reported "out at the Theater" 1:48 211 reported "There's about five squads back "here" with me now" (I'm assuming he was talking about the Theater 1:48 29 reported being two blocks away 1:49 19 reported in and said "15 and some squads are going to the Theater" 1:52 550/2 reported that the suspect was apprehended and enroute to the station 1:53 Dispatch told 91 to report "back" to the Theater and get 223's car and lock it up 85 is Patrolman R.W. Walker 492 was Detectives Carroll and Lyons 211 unknown 29 is Patrolman J.M. Williams 15 is Captian C.E. Talbert 550/2 is Sgt. Gerald Hill 91 is W.D. Mentzel and J.W. Courson 223 is Patrolamn C.T.Walker You can go to Box 2. Folder# 7 and read the after action reports of some of these officers. You can also get some of their WC testimony. The question of whether the lights were on, off, or dimmed is kind of confusing. Steve Thomas

Ron, I am in the minority, but I personally believe that McDonald made a serious error in judgement. When he saw the gun in Oswald's waistband, he should have yelled out, "Gun" and stepped back. Instead, (if we can believe the accounts of what happened) he made a grab for it. This could have had fatal consequences. Steve Thomas

Ray, Thank you. Steve

Duke, Here's a 2003 piece I wrote in the Lancer Forum called, "The Snap That Never Was." I have always taken it on faith that during his arrest at the Texas Theater, Lee Harvey Oswald took out his gun and attempted to shoot arresting Officer M.N. McDonald. This is based on accounts of an audible "snap" that was heard. Later, we read accounts that the only reason Oswald's attempted murder of McDonald didn't succeed because of a bent primer or a "misfire" I would like to contend that perhaps the "snap" that was heard was either the sound of something else, or was accidently caused by the officers seeing the gun and immediately reacting to take it away from Oswald and that Oswald did not attempt to shoot Officer McDonald. I say this for the following three reasons: 1) Here are the accounts of the arresting officers filed with Police Chief Curry on Decembers 2 - 5, 1963. They can be found in the DAllas Police Archives, Box 2, Folder# 7 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm E.L. Cunningham: "When I reached the seating area on the main floor, several officers were in the process of disarming and handcuffing the suspect. ...I did not see anything that indicated that any more force was used than was absolutely necessary to effect the arrest". Paul Bentley: "Just as I entered the lower floor, I saw Patrolman McDonald fighting with this suspect. I saw this suspect pull a pistol from his shirt, so I went to Patrolman McDonald's aid immediately" Bob Carroll: "When I arrived at the lower floor, Lee Harvey Oswald was resisting vigorously"...At this time I observed a pistol with the muzzle pointed in my direction. I grabbed the pistol and stuck it in my belt..." Ray Hawkins: "The subject stood up and as Officer McDonald started to search him, he struck Officer McDonald in the face. The subject and Offcier McDonald began to fight and both fell down in the seats. Officer Walker and I ran toward the subject and grabbed him by his left arm. The subject had reached in his belt for a gun and Officer McDoanld was holding his right hand with the gun in it". T.A. Hutson: "As I entered the row of seats behind the suspect he jumped up and hit Officer McDonald in the face with his fist, Officer McDonald was in the seat next to the one in which the suspect was originally sitting, and the suspect was up out of his seat struggling with Officer McDonald. I reached over the back of the seats and placed my right arm around the suspect's neck and pulled him up on back of the seat. Officer C.T. WAlker came up and was struggling with the suspect's left hand, and as Officer McDonald struggled with with the suspect's right hand, he moved it to his waist and drew a pistol and as Officer McDonald tried to disarm the suspect, I heard the pistol snap". K.E. Lyon: "Enroute to the City Hall, Oswald refused to answer all questions. and he kept repeating, "Why am I being arrested? I know I was carrying a gun, but why else am I being arrested"? M.N. McDonald: "When I got within a foot of him, I told the suspect to get to his feet. He stood up immediately, bringing his hands up about shoulder high and saying, "Well it's over now". I was reaching for his waist and he struck me on the nose with his left hand. With his right hand, he reached for his waist and both our hands were on a pistol that was stuck in his belt under his shirt. We both fell into the seats struggling for the pistol. ... I managed to get my right hadn on the pistol over the suspect's hand. I could feel his hand on the trigger. I then got a secure grip on the butt of the pistol. I jerked the pistol and as it was clearing the suspect's clothing and grip I heard the snap of the hammer and the pistol crossed over my left cheek, causing a four inch scratch". As you can see from reading these reports, at no time in the first 10 to 12 days following the assassination, did any of the arresting officers on the scene claim that Oswald tried to shoot M.N. McDonald. If the pistol did go off and cause a "snap" of the hammer falling into place, it was because McDonald jerked it out of Oswald's pants. 2) When questioned by Captain Fritz on the afternoon of November 22nd, Fritz did not accuse Oswald of trying to shoot Officer McDonald. Fritz (4H214) Mr. FRITZ. He told me he went over and caught a bus and rode the bus to North Beckley near where he lived and went by home and changed clothes and got his pistol and went to the show. I asked him why he took his pistol and he said, "Well, you know about a pistol; I just carried it." Let's see if I asked him anything else right that minute. That is just about it. Mr. BALL. Did you ask him if he killed Tippit? Mr. FRITZ. Sir? Mr. BALL. Did you ask him if he shot Tippit? Mr. FRITZ. Oh, yes. Mr. BALL. What did he say. Mr. FRITZ. He denied it---that he did not. The only thing he said he had done wrong, "The only law I violated was in the show; I hit the officer in the show; he hit me in the eye and I guess I deserved it." He said, "That is the only law I violated." He said, "That is the only thing I have done wrong." 3) If Oswald had attempted to shoot Officer McDonald, why were no charges of attempted murder filed as they were in the case of Governor Connally? I believe that the account of Oswald trying to shoot McDonald was invented after the fact. Steve Thomas

On page 3 of a September 23, 1975 memo from Dan Dwyer and Ed Greissing of the Senate Select Committee to Paul Wallach, there is this paragraph: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...2&relPageId=100 II. It has been determined by the military task force, as a result of the NSA - watch list case study, that Oswald, Jack Ruby and Earl C. Ruby, Jack's brother, were targeted. An NSA spokesman reported that Oswald's name "appeared" in the rhyming dictionary on the day of the President's assassination. The following lines of inquiry should be considered: A. The dates of which Oswald and the Ruby brothers names were placed on the list. B. The amount of product. C. The information contained in the product. D. A determination if the product was forwarded to the FBI and CIA and how these agencies might have used the product in the investigation of the President's assassination. I haven't found yet if the SSC got those answers. Steve Thomas

Stephen, Thank you. It was actually the MDC camp I had in mind. Ruby went to New Orleans in June of '63? I can't remember who Ruby was talking to after he was arrested when he said, 'Theyre going to find out about New Orleans, they're going to find out about the guns, they're going to find out about everything." When asked if their was anyone who could hurt him, Ruby replied, "Davis." I've been wondering if he could have been referring to Richard Rudolph Davis. Steve Thomas

Stephen, I recently ran across one of those raw FBI files in which the memo said that there had been allegations that Jack Ruby was running drugs through the training camp near Lake Ponchatrain in the summer of 1963. In the same memo I think it was, it was also alleged that Lee Harvey Oswald sometimes used the alias, Tom Kane. Have you ever heard of these allegations before? Steve Thomas

Robert, In 1967, Calvin Trillin wrote an article on the early critics. In his article, he wrote: "Mrs. Martin, who now lives in Owasso, a small town outside of Tulsa,..." He also wrote: "she and her husband have adopted an American Indian boy,..." According to Mary Ferrell's database, her name was, Mrs. Mark E. Martin You might try looking there. Steve Thomas

George, In Box 14, Folder# 2, Item# 3 of the DPD Archives, I think you will find the kind of list you are looking for. http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box14.htm At one time, there existed a map placing everyone in the basement, but as Paul McCaghren stated in "Partners in Blue" by Carleton Stowers, "One of my responsibilities," recalls McCaghren..."was to place everyone in the basement of City Hall at the time Ruby shot Oswald."..."I made this highly detailed map of the basement and marked the spot where everyone was standing when the shooting occurred. Then one morning I came into the office and the map was gone. The Warren Commission people had taken it without any explanation." Steve Thomas

Lee, You want that particular spot, you'd better get there early. I wonder if Steve has an update. As I emailed you this morning, I did hear back from Jim Conner. He said, "The car was a Ford, 4 door Station Wagon with Texas license.(Cream colored) She wrote the license number down and gave it to Mr. Truly." Steve Thomas

Duke, The Tippit you speak of knew Jack in his Silver Spur days. I don't believe he was ever in the Carousel. Steve Thomas

Gerry, If you see this, could you expand on LHO's visit to Cuba in April, 1959? Thanks, Steve Thomas

John, Do you have any outside corroboration that Socarras was involved in the Free Cuba Committee? Steve Thomas

Dave, I initially attributed the two SS numbers to Oswald's dyslexia, but I also know that there is some controversy with Oswald's tax returns being witheld, and the possibility that they might include unreported income. I wondered if people researching this angle should also be looking for LHO's tax returns under different SS numbers. Steve Thomas

What does anyone make of this? In Box 6, Folder# 7, Item# 23 p.1 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box6.htm There is a Louisiana Interstate Request for Reconsideration of Monetary Determination. (I thin Lho was requesting his undemployment compensation from Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall be reconsidered). The SSN number for LHO is given as 433-54-3937. Down below however, it says, "List other names or SS numbers under which wages were earned". In that box is written, "Claimant's wages were earned under SS# which is 433-54-3739." (Notice the transposition of the last four digits). In Box 6, Folder# 8, Item# 6, p.1 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box6.htm There is a 1962 Federal Witholding state ment from I believe Leslie Welding for LHO which gives his SS number as 433-54-3739. There is a check mark next to LHO's SS number, as though someone thought it was important. According to the SS Death Index, http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/ There is no listing for a 433-54-3937 and a Dorothy Ellis of New Orleans, LA listed for 433-54-3739 She was born in 1937 and died in 1997 How could LHO be earning wages under that SS number? Does anyone know of other instances where these two SS numbers were used or transposed? Steve Thomas

Robert, Ron, are you familiar with this story it seems to provide a dimension to Oswalds Mexico City sojournings heretofore undisclosed. If you study the FBI's Cointelpro documents, one of the groups targeted was the Friends, because of their anti-nuclear stance. I once tried to find Ruth Paine's name in the Cointelpro documents coming out of Pennsylvania, but didn't find any. Steve Thomas

Jason, I read once that Oswald was in the "hospital" for something like three weeks. Far to long for a simple botched suicide attempt. I got to wondering the other day if during that stay, Oswald was subjected to some of the same kind of treatment as Yuri Nosenko, and whether he could have stood up to it. Steve Thomas

There is a BBC article and a video discussion of the Warren Commission here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/s...000/2725221.stm Steve Thomas

Hello Jack, Yes, the accounts are inconsistent - which is why I think individuals confused details of the different arrests. Once upon a time I had started assembling notes on the arrest accounts and comparing them. I did this in the form of questions, one of which was: WHAT KIND OF RAILROAD CAR WERE YOU ON WHEN YOU WERE ARRESTED? Bill Bass (FBI) 6/15/92: “a grain car.” Marvin Wise 3/6/92: Wise was told that the three men climbed into a coal car. John Gedney FBI 2/26/92 “Gedney said that he thought they were lying on big sheets of steel on a flatbed railroad car when the police came over with guns, said don’t move and then arrested them and took them over to the Dallas City jail. Harold Doyle FBI 2/20/92 “They then got on a gondola, also known as a coal car, and were heading towards Fort Worth, when the train was stopped.” Doyle and Gedney’s arrest record: "These men were taken off a train boxcar in the rail yards right after President Kennedy as shot," William Chambers: When questioned the three individuals said they were “on a freight car sleeping.” Another question related to the timing of the arrest: Lee Bowers in his testimony before the Warren Commission, vol VI, p. 288: Between 50 and a hundred policemen came up the slope within 5 minutes. “That’s right. Sealed off the area and I held off the trains until they could be examined, and there were some transients taken on at least one train.” From their arrest records: “These men were taken off a train box car in the rail yards right after President Kennedy was shot. These men are passing through town. They have no jobs or any means of making a living”. (According to the Dispatch Tapes of Channel 1, Marvin Wise reported his location at 12:38pm) 12:38 DIS: 71, robbery of an individual, 2205 Cockrell. 12:38. At approximately 12:42pm, 71 reported his location as Corinth and Harwood: DIS: 71. 71: Corinth and Harwood. DIS: Code 3. Many squads were being instructed at this point to proceed to Elm and Houston Code 3. He arrived and parked near the railroad tracks. He went to the TSBD and was assigned to the west side of the TSBD. . “He was sitting in his car and a man working in the railroad building waved at him. Wise and another officer (name forgotten) were told by the man that three men got into a boxcar about four or five hundred yards down the track. Wise, in company with Bill Bass, Roy Vaughn and Middleton (although Middleton denies that he was there) went to the boxcars and took the men of the boxcar”. Wise took the men over to the Sheriff’s Office, and while waiting to turn them over, asked the men for identification. Wise stated that he believes that two of the men had documented ID’s. He turned the men over to the Sheriff’s Office (Deputy name unknown), and went back to his radio”. He heard over the police radio that a policeman had been shot, and a little later heard that it was J.D. Tippit”. Notice the timing. The tramps have been picked up and are in the station when Wise hears about Tippit. (Tippit was shot at approximately 1:16pm) And yet, there is this transmission on the Dispatch tapes at 1:57 pm: 1:57 Dallas Police Tapes 1579. 61: 61. 1580. DIS: 61. 1581. 61: We have information from the agent out here at the T&P. Said that the train is stopped on the overpass, the Triple Overpass; that there was a person jump in the ninth box car from the front engine. Said he's hiding in the car. 1582. DIS: Is the train stopped there now? 1583. 61: I'm in behind the Texas Shool Depository. He has the train stopped. (voices) He said it is the ninth car from the engine, a gondola-type car; said he is hankered down inside. There is no way, of course to know if this person jumping into the ninth car from the front engine is one of those people supposedly sleeping in a gondola car or a freight car (see above). DID THE ARRESTING OFFICERS HAVE SHOTGUNS, OR JUST PISTOLS? When Wise reported to the sergeant in charge at the TSBD, “Wise was told to stop anyone who came out of the building and that he should get his [bOLD]shotgun[/bOLD] out of his vehicle”. “Wise exited the control tower; he and the four other officers ran to a coal car which was identified by an individual driving a locomotive engine alongside an adjacent track. Wise and Vaughn were the two officers who actually climbed up and then down into the car where they located three individuals. Pointing their [bOLD]shotguns[/bOLD] at the three individuals, Wise and Vaughn ordered the three to exit the car. FBI interview with Gedney 3/6/92 “Gedney said that the officers that arrested them in the railroad yard had revolvers and he did not recall any of them having rifles or shotguns at the time of arrest. Gedney said that he was not sure if these were the same officers that arrested them in the railroad yard or not”. There are many other questions surrounding these men, such as, If they were told they were free to go, what were they doing in jail four days later? Were they, or were they not fingerprinted? “During the book-in, a thumbprint of the prisoner would be placed on each of the three copies”. (The Arrest Report on Investigative Prisoner contains no thumbprints) (Doyle says they were fingerprinted)! Gedney said that they were taken to the basement of the jail, and “may have been fingerprinted” It goes on and on. Steve Thomas

Stephen, Denis Morissette has assembled an impressive collection of documents relating to the Three Tramps here: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senat.../Documents.html Read the FBI interviews of William Chambers, Marvin Wise, David Harkness, Bill Bass, etc. Steve Thomas