Lee Forman

No worries Michael - No man is an Island. Actually, listening to Hex, Babylon is fallen, on their album Sleep when you're dead. Great stuff. Let it be prophetic. Well, just for the hell of it - here's a version with no effort at enhancement. Have to admit, Miller's take on the individual seen along the trailing bottom of the z-frames [405 - 414] is looking like Hudson - just still puzzled as to why we never see the head of the young man appear as well. Maybe Bill has the answer there. - lee

Did this one in early 2005 - was trying to enhance the frames as much as possible to follow the man running up the stairs in Nix. It's a shame that I probably cannot improve on it much. Very much would like to know if this guy goes down here. I've heard from a few folks who have an interest in the JFK assassination, and like the forum. No clandestine material - just interested parties who have done their own research and digging - want to say thank you, and I am always open to sharing material and ideas. Bring it on and let's get 'er done folks. - lee lforman23@comcast.net

Lee, it's a pleasure to see you posting more often. I've always enjoyed reading what you have to say. Thanks very much Michael - I always appreciate your posts as well. We're all in it together, the way I see it. Since I am posting on this thread, I may as well add that although Clarence Lasby was convinced by the patronizing officials he interviewed that Nuclear technology was not among the items seized during the numerous paperclip ops - like ALSOS - who worked the front and came in swift on the feet of the fleeing Reich - this will be proved false - in our lifetime. Along with the human resources that we collected - the brain drain Hitler compiled from his conquered Europe - there would have been many prototypes of nukes - since like many projects - including the long distance weapon to strike Britain - they had many, many other projects in progress. Some ideas were quite interesting - like placing a satellite in space with a mirror that could be controlled remotely to burn certain parts of the earth - and flying discs that could hover at a high altitude to deliver a nuke payload. Amazing how much secrecy existed at this time under the guise of Natl Security, fear of weapons falling into the hands of the Soviets, etc. - so many lies. Time to come clean. On topic and very intriguing as well is a small section of McDonald's book, Appointment in Dallas - where he travels to Europe to meet up with Saul - aka Mario Tauler Sague - [whom he doesn't give a damn about to listen to his tales of landing on the beach in Cuba during the BOP assault, or enquire of with respect to his involvement in Guatemala] - where his covert contacts inform him of efforts by the Soviets to make use of certain air currents to spread disease to the US. I found that very interesting - McDonald seemed to only care about a 2nd floor possible for the Records building. - lee

Ewen Cameron did die on a mountain. He did have a colleague called Cleghorn. But the official version of his MK/ULTRA involvement says that Cameron did his "psychic driving"in Canada so that it was not conducted on American citizens.... If members can bear the irritating camerawork (leaving Claudia Mullen at crucial moments in her account), this link is to her testimony before the Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments, 1995: This link is to the testimony of her therapist, Dr Valerie Wolf. Note that Wolf states that the identification of Dr L(iam) Wilson Greene was made as a direct result of identification by an alleged mind control victim. Dr L Wilson Greene had never appeared in the MK/ULTRA literature before, but was found to be a real doctor at a relevant institution. The stuff done by the AEC was expansive. We could only guess at how expansive. http://www.rense.com/general36/history.htm One thing I think folks have to recognize is overlap - many times based upon secrecy and clearances, but also because is secured location. Hence the Manhattan Project location was also allegedly used for ULTRA stuff. The black budget projects appear to have had points of collision. Ironic how the Canadians managed to get some form of payout and apology. I'm not aware of any such extension of courtesy and recognition to the victims here. Although it's officially been dismissed, I still have found nothing to discredit T. Casey Brennan - who sheds quite a bit of light on the project - with respect to processes used, methods of sourcing individuals [the 'seekers'], folks involved, etc. As per Brennan, the one big name which still remains to be revealed - working closely with David Ferrie, is one J.H. Earnshaw, D.O., of Port Hope, Michigan. I have yet to find a trace of this invidual - however, Brennan maintains that he was a very big player. Have you ever come across this name? - lee

Simple close-up view from Muchmore. I have enhanced the shadows for Hudson and his 'Young Man.' Our awkward, transparent, and off-balance 'Phantom' is now making his move for his leap of faith to qualify for synch with the Nix film. - lee

I see this matter has already been raised on these excellent forums: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=8006 I should expand my statement in my original post that "captive populations" for covert experimentation were typically prisoners and orphans. As many here know, the third category has long been military personnel. Approaching this subject from the scientific and medical perspective, one of my most surprizing discoveries has been the extent to which many of the "visible" MK/ULTRA doctors - eg Cameron, West, Orne, Estabrooks, Heath - and those whose paths appear to have crossed (perhaps unwittingly) MK/ULTRA - eg Lilly, Lifton, Osmond, Carone - were perfectly placed gatekeepers. As senior figures and journal editors in their psychiatric specialities, they had access to nearly all ongoing experimental work and had the ability to shape the public consensus as to what was and wasn't possible. It's a perfect setup. It renders it effectively impossible for MSM to investigate these matters because the leading docs say "oh that's just not possible.... anyone who believes that is a kook." A few more comments - I think I may have referenced this earlier in another thread on the possibility of post hypnotic triggered suicide for Demohrenschildt - as originally theorized by Dick Sprague - the resistance to suicide in the will [critical factor] can be reduced - a subject can be 'brought to a level' where the alternative of suicide is open. This would involve things like inciting paranoia, depression through a loss of employment, etc. Sprague was also impressed by the concept that such a 'weapon' would be rejected as nonsense. It was confirmed for me via a friend that is a professional hypnotist as totally possible. A subject that has been through hypnosis is easier to hypnotize. The level attained is also significant. Initial forays into the field from a military perspective dwelled on shellshock plus the reluctance of a soldier in the field to fire at his opponents - because of a reluctance to take another human life, or betray his position. Along with a desire to create a more aggressive fighting force, the use of hypnotic conditioning was greatly sought for double agents, to prevent proprietary knowledge and intel secrets from being sourced, even by the most extreme measures. That is documented. Another interesting item in Judyth Baker's books is a bit where Oswald indicates to Baker that he has trained to resist truth-seeking drugs, etc. This could be where Oswald may have seen some MK related activity. Another possible is during his CAP training under David Ferrie - whom I believe was erroneously portrayed in the Stone film as an idiot, as opposed to the genius he appears to have been. A pedophile notwithstanding, however an idividual possessed of superior intellect - who was in all liklihood part of more than one MK related project - which is confirmed by Judyth in her book as well.

I have conducted numerous searches in the published medical literature of the 50s and 60s, when ethical standards were laxer. It is clear that experimentation on "captive populations" with drugs and electrodes was extensive. "Captive populations" were typically prisoners and orphans. I have interviewed dozens of individuals who claim to have been subjects of mind control experimentation, and read or listened to the accounts of hundreds more. I have interviewed individuals who claim to have worked in these secret programmes. Much of what I have been told is rubbish, or deliberate disinformation. A fair part of it I believe to be true. As a broadcast journalist, I have made films about medicine, science, history, business, and am used to the rigour of providing strong, verifiable, sources. The problem with covert experimentation involving MK/ULTRA and the Paperclip scientists is the difficulty of establishing "conclusive proof". This problem is compounded by the fact that the public guardians of orthodox psychiatry were often themselves witting participants in MK/ULTRA. For instance, one of the giants of Twentieth Century psychiatry, Dr Martin Orne, was the Editor of The International Journal of Clinical and Experimental Hypnosis, and was on the Advisory Board of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation. The documentation in Ross' books establishes that Orne received money from the CIA, Army, Navy and Air Force, and is the named Contractor in, for instance, MK/ULTRA Sub-Project 84 [commenced 1960] whose purpose was: I have absolutely no doubt that there were several covert projects attempting to create Manchurian Candidates, and that hypnosis was a key element. I have also seen enough circumstantial information in the biographies of Lee Harvey Oswald (or maybe Lee and Harvey, as per Armstrong), to persuade me that Oswald himself may have been an MK/ULTRA subject. I should stress that I am not saying that he was a hypno-programmed assassin. I am saying that he may have been a test subject, and that certain key intelligence officers were aware of, and exploited, this situation. Hello Jan. That is an excellent summary. I also have an MK thread someplace here as well - found it. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...ost&p=29554 One very bizarre puzzle piece here that I have tried to figure out is David Ferrie. From hearsay, he apparently admitted to having been involved in 'Operation Mosquito,' which turns out to have been a program run from Dietrich in which a pilot would have been required, to release quantities of infected insects over 'specially selected' populations - with a follow on, dressed in white and toting clipboards after the effect, to gather results. An interest in bio weapons, chem weapons, radiation related weapons - large drivers - as well as being prepared for same. Judyth Baker goes on to spell out Ferrie's direct connection with ULTRA in her book. We have numerous individuals citing Ferrie as using hypnosis, and for nefarious ends. Have you ever turned up anything here? The relationship of Ferrie to Sherman and a cancer causing weapon - would be a nice fit. Ferrie's background in the OSS would also complement. One comment by Baker with respect to something Ferrie said struck me very hard, since I had heard this same sentiment expressed from a different quarter. Another way of putting it: "Bureaucracy defends the status quo long past the time when the quo has lost its status." ...Laurence J. Peter http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=141765 Once the machine gets things swinging in full operation, it's almost impossible to stop. This sentiment was expressed to me by Gerry Hemming, who claimed that certain covert measures were employed to bring about an end to the U2 program, as it was defunct on the basis of intel which was received with respect to higher technological advances in radar made by the Chinese - who were able to 'see' the U2, and were in the process of selling this technology to the Soviets - enter Oswald. Curious. Hemming also told me that portions of his HSCA testimony were ommitted - one section in particular when he allegedly spoke critically respecting the use of the swine flu in covert ops against Cuba. The sugar cane op I think is documented someplace. Anyway - very curious to get your take on Ferrie. Welcome to the forum. - lee

Interesting example: Wiki So why would the man himself be seen singing the song before a live audience, with an intro stating that the song is about his boy Josh? Just cheap theatrics I guess. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH46SmVv8SU...feature=related On topic here, I found this extremely annoying: I thought that the black couple also gave testimony reporting that Lee Oswald did it. It's a useful tool, but always take it with a shot of tequila.

I have been reveiwing the shadows of the men on the stairs. I also re-examined every film of the event - seeking additional coverage of the stairs - interesting how many of the films cut off before reaching this area. I have a GIF which I created quite some time ago of the Bond photos - centered on the stairs - it's interesting - but I cannot load it because it is in excess of the 2mb limit, and I can't cut it back. Maybe I will crop each photo and try again someday. The purpose of making this theory public is with the same goal in mind as always - I am quite well aware of additional supressed material covering the event on 11/22 which has never been made public - I again implore anyone with additional photographic or film material of the event to consider it's release in 2008. I know that there were many good people associated with our Government in 1963 who simply carried out orders - whether because it seemed the right thing to do at the time, there was concern over career, pension, loss of life, etc. However, in hindsight - was it the correct thing to do? Are you not then guilty, after a complicit fashion, in the murder of the President; and logically then, responsible for assisting, indirectly, the expansion of mob related interests in the political spectrum, the insertion of ruthless and unscrupulous political power in the form of LBJ and his cronies, the rise of the war machine and thousands of innocent lives lost in the Vietnam conflict, and partial responsibility for things as they are today? Can you still justify the original position you took in 1963 without considering the consequences that followed? You're itching to act - so do it. Even if the material you may have contains a signature - I urge you to make the move now, here 44 years after-the-fact, and put an end to it - even if it contains the inevitable risk factor - I am still asking you to consider it. History has a way of cleansing itself, and old wrongs become righted. Right it. And remain anonymous - just send me an email and let me know how to get the material - I commit to retain any identities. I am of course, most interested in any images which demonstrate the true nature of events as they took place in the area of the stairs - however, some of the real shots taken of the TSBD would make a nice second. The purpose is to expose the truth. The medium is this forum. Thanks in advance... lforman23@comcast.net

NICE work Chris! Here we go with another problem - take a look at the stabilized Nix I loaded - or if you have a better one - that would be preferred! Note the shadows - length and direction. So what is creating the bizarre shadows in the steps that we see in the Muchmore? How come these don't appear consistent with what we see in Nix? Edit: I think I partially answered my own question. The young man is actually shuffling his way to the right, following along with the Lincoln. I had never noticed that before your gif. Very interesting. Still should look closely at the shadows being cast by Hudson and the man I believe to be bogus. And you're right - what is up with Hudson? Never noticed that before either. - lee

You say it with such conviction Don. I didn't know that this was open to debate. You could always contact Lawrence and ask him though? http://www.abneystreetchurch.org/site/ Edit: If you do contact him [as a man of God I would image he would welcome your questions], would you mind asking one question before raising him as a possible for the stairs? Just simply ask why he believes Chuck Giancana would state that Momo used his name as being one of the peripheral mob contract players in the assassination, as published in 'Double Cross.' Thanks. - lee

Thanks Smitty. I paid a lot of money to some clown once who said knifing. I found him so unreliable, that I didn't mention it. I mention it with that caveat, because I have heard knifing from another more reliable quarter - but it's difficult to tell with what we have to work with. I'd like to know who the special person was that was checked in to Parkland during Kennedy's visit. Check out Hargis' reaction. More on Hargis at a later time. I used to think that the reason for the thumbprint on the Moorman polaroid was actually a simple matter of deflecting the obvious - Hargis is staring at the guy on the stairs. Shoot! Being forced to cut it down to load it. Here we go... - lee

I was originally intending to use this thread only to secure some reasonable semblance on timing. However, looks like a good place for a data dump to me. The scenario, as it appears to me, is as follows: A man, most likely Mob connected, possibly Cuban exile, watched the Motorcade from behind cover of the retaining wall - although Wikipedia accepts as fact the Thompson interview of Sitzman - there is not other proof of any kind of any black couple seated on the bench behind the retaining wall tossing bottles and running. No other witness account, no film or photographic evidence. And this is a moot point - as I have heard 'alleged' accounts of some black couple that were too scared to come forward - meaningless. Upon examination of the various films and photographs available - using the alleged 'facts' in the case - there is no time for the third man to emerge and take his place next to Hudson. Hudson's account is rife with conflicts with regard to the official 'record' - this too must be taken with a grain of salt, since the 'evidence' is clearly tampered with and in control of individuals who sought to cover up the truth of the matter. The 'big lie' as I will always call it, appears to me to have taken place in this area - which unfortunately does not provide much room for Gordon Arnold. The individual seen in the Bentzner and Willis photos known as Black Dog Man has time enough to move from his location at z186, continue on his way at z202 and arrive in position on the stairs in the Moorman by z315. He also can take one shot, and immediately make an exit - as per the timing and evidence in the Nix film. What happens to him next is a mystery. Is he the same man seen running by JC Price? Likely - but unknown. Is he responsible somehow for the pool of blood? Likely but unknown. Why is BDM colored the way that he is? Is it consistent in any way with the rest of the photo? I would say no - which is already telling. What could be considered the height of irony is that there would have been no need for this shot - since Kennedy had already received a mortal wound from the rear. However, this shot from the front would have followed the shot from the rear by some 0.43715847 of a second - if we use the removal of 8 frames of the Zapruder film at 18.3fps. The obvious question: Why did no one see this occur? The obvious answer, in 4 parts: 1. All eyes were focused on the President. 2. Some folks did see something, but were ridiculed, repressed, intimidated, etc., into indicating something confusing for the 'official' record. 3. Who are you asking? SOB man remains unidentified. As does the couple on the triangle, the young man with Hudson, the blond woman [maybe Peggy Burney] nearby, DCM, BDM, the alleged 'Black couple behind the retaining wall,' the men seen running in the z-frames, the individuals in vehicles across the plaza seen in the Cancellare, etc., etc., etc. etc. It would be interesting just to get some stats on how many possible witnesses there could have been vs how many there were - for this location. And quite frankly - if Beverly Oliver was Babushka Lady - she should be called on the carpet here - as this is the major reason for why I believe she is full of crap - since Babushka is clearly watching everything that transpired in this location. 4. When the elephants dance - get out of the way. And if Hoover isn't a big enough Elephant for you, Bull Johnson the scumbag should have been. And if that doesn't work for you, there was always the cleaners. Another interesting take I have heard too many times - Well, if the mob had been involved, it wouldn't have made sense that they had long range sharp shooters handling the hit? They are known for doing short range, up-close-and-personal type of hits. Exactly. Leave nothing to chance. Still to come - how weak the job was on the 'Phantom' or, the third man added to the stairs to create the plausible appearance of a third man having been on the stairs that turned and ran and was 100% benign - to cover up what actually transpired in this location with respect to a hitter taking a shot. - lee

The correct phrase would be 'only two men seen on the steps in Willis'. The man closer to the camera is blocking out Hudson, but if one looks closely ... there are parts of Hudson seen beyond the closer man. The two mens coats blend making it appear to be one man with unnaturally long arms ... would one not agree. The other is the sag in Hudson's pants that can be seen behind the closer man's knee. The reason for one man's coat appearing lighter in one image over another is due to the angle of reflection of the sun's light. There are numerous instances in the Willis photo alone that demonstrates how dark clothing looks light where the suns light is shining down upon it. In real life it would not have looked so different, but on film is another matter altogether. Hudson in Willis is NOT looking at the limo. This is shown by BM's analysis quoted above. This analysis leads to unexpected consequences: (RSM =Red Shirt Man) Mr. HUDSON - Well there was a young fellow, oh, I would judge his age about in his late twenties. He said he had been looking for a place to park and he walked up there and he said he finally just taken a place over there in one of them parking lots, and he come on down there and said he worked over there on Industrial and me and him both just sat there first on those steps. When the motorcade turned off of Houston onto Elm, we got up and stood up, me and him both. He was on the left side and I was on the right and so the first shot rung out and, of course, I didn't realize it was a shot, what was taking place right at that present time, and when the second one rung out, the motorcade had done got further on down Elm, and you see, I was trying to get a good look at President Kennedy. I happened to be looking right at him when that bullet hit him - the second shot. Hudson is saying that "young fellow" stood next to him from the time the motorcade turned off of Houston onto Elm until the second shot. But the man standing next to Hudson in Moorman ran away in seconds after the second shot. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see that shot hit anything - the third shot? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. I'll tell you - this young fellow that was sitting there with me - standing there with me at the present time, he says, "lay down, Mister, somebody is shooting the President." He says, "Lay down, lay down." and he kept repeating, "Lay down." so he was already laying down one way on the sidewalk, so I just laid down over on the ground and resting my arm on the ground and when that third shot rung out and when I was close to the ground - you could tell the shot was coming from above and kind of behind. Hudson is saying that after the man ran up the stairs the "young fellow" (RSM), who had stood with him since the motorcade turned off of Houston onto Elm, told him to lie down. This means that the photographic evidence does not agree or comport with Hudson's testimony. It contradicts Hudson. Miller's explanation for this is that Hudson became confused & imagined that, when the the man ran up the stairs & was replaced by RSM,... that RSM was the man who ran away & had been by him all the while. One man became another man in Hudson's mind: a doppelgänger. Miller is saying, therefore, that Hudson had a very powerful hallucination. Very good. This renders Hudson unreliable & not credible & so vitiates Hudson's testimony as valid. This appalling development was noticed by Ken, who realized that the only remotely plausible scenario was that "run-away-man" dashed to safety behind the retaining wall & then comically shouted in a huge, stentorian voice instructions to Hudson. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see that shot hit anything - the third shot? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. I'll tell you - this young fellow that was sitting there with me - standing there with me at the present time, Hudson means the "young fellow" who had sat with him & stood with him during the period of time that Husdon is recalling, which period of time Hudson calls the "present time," SAYS to him at the time of the third shot: "Lay down." Hudson uses the verb "SAYS," not shouts not yells not screams. This clearly means that the person who says to Hudson "Lay down, lay down'' is a person who is close enough to Hudson to be heard in the din of the passing motorcade by means of a volume level & loudness of tone which is below that of someone yelling or shouting. The only person who could SAY this was RSM. he says, Hudson uses the verb: says. "lay down, Mister, somebody is shooting the President." Hudson's use of the word "Mister" is significant. Why? Would the man who had run up the stairs (to allegedly lie down on the sidewalk behind the retaining wall) have looked to see Hudson & RSM, practically in one another's arms, and have called out to them: "Lay down, Mister?'' Why warn only one to lie down & not the other? But, if RSM was saying this, then, of course, since he was addressing only one man as the other had run away, he would naturally say to Hudson: "Lay down, Mister (singular)." He says, Again, Hudson uses SAYS, "Lay down, lay down." and he kept repeating, "Lay down." Hudson says that the "young man" kept repeating "Lay down." Hudson indicates that a length of time passes while this repeating goes on. During this time Hudson receives these warnings. Hudson explains that he then does something for certain reasons. What are these reasons? First Hudson explains that the "young man is already lying ONE WAYon the sidewalk. so So. Hudson uses this conjunction "so" to indicate connection & causation. (He did this, so I did this.) he was already laying down one way on the sidewalk, Hudson explains. so So. Hudson uses this conjunction "so" to indicate connection & causation. (He did this, so I did this.) I just laid down over on the ground Hudson is saying that the reason he lay on the GROUND was because the "young fellow" had already laid down on the sidewalk ONE WAY and there was NO ROOM there for Hudson to lie down THERE. Hudson explains that he had to lie down on the ground, he had no other choice. Hudson is trying to explain his actions & movements so that it is clear to LIEBELER why he, Hudson, could apprehend & judge the origin & direction of the third shot. He is answering the question put to him by LIEBELER, and, since Hudson grasps the great importance of the question, Hudson is attempting to be as clear as he can be. and resting my arm on the ground and when that third shot rung out and when I was close to the ground - you could tell the shot was coming from above and kind of behind. So, a close study of Hudson's exact words leads to the conclusion that Hudson meant that RSM warned him to "lay down." The possibility that "run-away-man" so warned Hudson is eliminated. QED Edit: spelling Miles - I will tell you 2 interesting things in addition to what you have pointed out. The first, why isn't 'red shirt man' Hudsons 'young man?' Now if you compare different versions of the Moorman, you get a much different appearance of this man. The difference is worth remarking, as I believe it sets the standard for the authenticity of the photo - eg, less alteration than not. So - for example, if we look at early copies of the Moorman - like the Zippo, or the Fort Worth Press copy - I'd pick the young man as the 'Red Shirt Man' every time. Second, I was admittedly thrown off for sometime by the appearance of what looked like 3 individuals behind the fence. Tried to make the case for it - using Hoffman and Bowers. Neither saw 3 - multiple issues, etc. On individual that studied it with me suggested that they resembled cartoons. Another was skeptical if it was added in after-the-fact or not. No one thought we were examining artifacts - this was the 'drumscan' copy. Now the interesting part about the mighty 'Drumscan' copy: a. The young man on the stairs does look like he does in the early Moorman - he looks older. b. It contains these characters behind the fence, and c. The man squatting on the stairs is simply not present - although he does appear in the Fort Worth Press photo. Much lower level of confidence in the characters seen behind the fence in the drumscan Moorman. Much higher for the man on the stairs, based upon a lot of additional information and inconsistencies. - lee

Same approximate position where we first catch a glimpse of the man running in Nix, as well as the man squatting in the Moorman. Overlay using a crop from the Moorman and Muchmore. That will work. Newsweek, December 5, 1966, pgs 22 - 23. I am not so easily pursuaded - and I write propaganda on a routine basis myself.

Assuming that we're roughly right on the timing as compared to the Zapruder film, then the difference in position between the man seen in Muchmore and the man seen in Nix is 11 frames. z241 vs z252. At 18.3fps, how does he travel the distance between point A and point B in less than one second. And note how very different the two appear.

The correct phrase would be 'only two men seen on the steps in Willis'. The man closer to the camera is blocking out Hudson, but if one looks closely ... there are parts of Hudson seen beyond the closer man. The two mens coats blend making it appear to be one man with unnaturally long arms ... would one not agree. The other is the sag in Hudson's pants that can be seen behind the closer man's knee. The reason for one man's coat appearing lighter in one image over another is due to the angle of reflection of the sun's light. There are numerous instances in the Willis photo alone that demonstrates how dark clothing looks light where the suns light is shining down upon it. In real life it would not have looked so different, but on film is another matter altogether. I looked closely and see nothing of the kind. You made a very logical response though - but I don't agree. Let's not forget that the rendition you have provided attempts to solve the problem of the Willis vs Muchmore, Nix and Moorman - but doesn't address the issues with the man seen squatting on the stairs in the Moorman, or Hudson's testimony. Why not mention that he was standing with 2 men? Why not mention that one ran away? We see him sitting on the steps - not with the one that ran away, but the man that was to his left, and a bit further down the steps at the time of the motorcade. How can that not be the young man he describes? I agree with you that the images can look different - I don't know that this explains BDM. Since you have volunteered the information in the past that you had interviewed Hudson's kin - any chance of asking them a few more questions? Or providing me with their contact info so I can ask? Did your Father ever indicate any funny business with the photos? Did he ever say anything about seeing a man in the photos that he didn't remember being there? Did he ever say anything about a man behind him on the steps? Did he ever say anything about someone being wounded behind him? Did he mention anything about the young man he encountered that day, and where he was in the photo? - lee

You look for yourself and think - how does anyone get away with this BS? And they do. What happened to the first man on the stairs? Why does the alleged 'drum scan' of the Moorman fail to capture the man squatting on the stairs? Where is the muzzle burst? Somebody please end it and send me some of the original material - this is a lie that can no longer be suffered. The time for the truth is now. I'll keep your response confidential - just get me the stuff. I only want the truth out there...finally. Help set the historical record straight. With only 5 seconds to reach this postion - it's a blatant lie and screw-up. Under 3 seconds to watch and then run - the mismatch on the clothing, the eye-witness accounts, the obvious alterations - end it. Let me be the cut-out here - just want to post the original stuff or the repressed stuff which demonstrates the truth here - it ripples and tugs as the biggest migraine in history here. - lee lforman23@comcast.net

Close-up Moorman crop taken from the drum-scan. Conclusion: Bogus. Added after-the-fact to provide the cover for actual events which included an assassin that took up a position close behind Hudson, took his shot, and fled. Still waiting for a pair of cojones...make 2008 the year. Adding an overlay of the Moorman and Muchmore. You get the idea as to how the Muchmore was processed. lforman23@comcast.net

Definitely hit, or definitely we can see him reacting in confirmation of a hit? Tom, Your work on the 'graze' shot to the top of Kennedy's head is stupendous - I find it highly logical, well researched, 100% probable - solves a lot of puzzles also, including the dent to the chrome - just in my opinion. However, it is still my firm belief that the traces of a shot from the front were removed from historical record - photographic, eye-witness as possible, film, x-ray and medical examination. I still believe that this shot closely followed that graze wound from the rear - and will continue to do so - otherwise there is really no need for Coley to have his photos of the pool of blood in this area confiscated with a warning not to talk, or intimidation of witnesses, gag rule to the SS, strange inconsistencies in the photographic and film records, etc. And the focus should be here on the stairs - where a large part of the action went down - hiding in plain sight. Quite honestly, I believe we have overestimated what transpired in this vicinity - primarily due to malefaction on the part of our Government - including a lot of cowards that took the pocket veto [pensions, job security, following orders, covering their butts, political views, whatever]. The point here, which may not be clear, is that there was some funny business going on while these seized sources were under control. More on that another time - no I don't trust Shaneyfelt either - or Hoover, Dulles, Ball, Johnson, Decker, Specter, Ford, etc. - lee Tom, Your work on the 'graze' shot to the top of Kennedy's head is stupendous - I find it highly logical, well researched, 100% probable One small step for man, one giant leap for "lone-nutter kind"! However! Be careful, as you too could be permanently banned from all JFK forums for feeding the "nutters"! Back to subject matter! I, and others have discussed the Willis location quite extensively. And, although I firmly accept only three shots fired from the sixth floor of the TSDB, I also have no qualms as to openly sharing information with those such as yourself who are truely attempting to research all avenues of this topic. The facts, whatever they may be, will either stand or fall on thier on merit among those who conduct thorough and proper research. However, without vital information, one is frequently hampered from conducting such factual research. In that regards, hope this is of some assistance. First work was from the SS Survey Plat of 12/5/63. This is from the WC work, and one can see the apparant errors, which of couse include the famous/infamous Z208 = Z210 slight/sleight-of-hand episode of the altered survey data, as well as one can see that what would be Z225 is, by the WC's works, Z223. There are other items of importance here as well, such as the spacing/distance between certain marked frame numbers, which has to do with the "Vehicle Speed Analysis" which I also long ago allowed JFK Lancer to publish. So, for those who are still working and attempting to resolve the WC shenanigans, this is of some help. Just as is the HSCA survey plat! Lost! So there were originally more frames then? Zapruder himself seemed unsettled by the 18.3 result. Fully wound I thought that the choices on the f-stop setting were something like 16 and then 25 - can't recall as I no longer gave the camera. I had bought a similar series [not the 414 pd] B&H camera - found 8mm Kodak film on eBay, got to the Plaza, fully wound the camera, stood on the pedestal, fired away for three pans - got back home and discovered that the film never caught - so I exposed nothing. I was pretty disappointed - however Chris Davidson did the same - and it was a tremendous relief to see some of his work. - lee

Add this to the stack - in Muchmore the alleged 'Third Man' has got on a dark colored sweater, but in Nix it looks like a white jacket or white shirt - more along the lines of the guy seen by JC Price. Logically, the man on the stairs was BDM. So how come he's so darkly colored in Betzner and Willis? The bottomline for why I bothered with this thread is that I believe a very simple assassination technique was used at this juncture involving a man that moved from a position behind the retaining wall, took his shot, and then turned and left. What ended up happening was that the Government took steps to erase it - getting rid of the guy in Moorman - but adding a bogus character to the Muchmore to explain the Nix and the man folks would have seen running - including Jean Hill, JC Price, Malcolm Couch, etc. Plus you'd have to have an official record handy so you could denounce anything that you may not have controlled which could emerge later. I believe that the Nix is the untouched version - the Muchmore and Moorman are totally false with respect to the individual standing next to Hudson. Hudson isn't distracted when he moves and runs away. Hudson never mentions him. Never! He describes the mannin the red shirt which we see in the Willis, Moorman, Nix, Muchmore, Bond, Towner, etc. There's no time to be in that position - the alterationist screwed up; especially looking nonchalant. Hudson would be staring at the guy if he sprinted up to that location. Less than 3 seconds to watch and he runs? Absurd. He's transparent and moves in a way that defies the laws of gravity in the Muchmore. He's a cut and paste when compared to the Moorman. In the Moorman he's got no left foot, his legs are sticks and he has no genitalia. He's a bait and switch for the man that squatted a bit further up the stairs and fired the shot that bashed Kennedy's brains out the back of his head so that they resembled confetti. No sophisticated secret weapons, no spotter and highly skilled and trained marksman with a high powered rifle and scope, etc. Simple and effective. One man, up close, handheld weapon. This is how the British trained the Czech exiles for the Anthropoid team that did the Heydrich hit. Find a hairpin curve, dress to blend, handheld weapon, get in close, bomb as failsafe. How this relates to the pool of blood as he retreated is still a bit of mystery - however, I believe there are still clues [Coley, Hill and Couch for example - "They hit him!"] plus I am still hopeful someone with some cojones will come forward or help me out with some material. Check it out - this is a SHOPPED version. All I am doing is removing the offensive piece of the photo. I did nothing else but add the red box. - lee lforman23@comcast.net

Definitely hit, or definitely we can see him reacting in confirmation of a hit? Tom, Your work on the 'graze' shot to the top of Kennedy's head is stupendous - I find it highly logical, well researched, 100% probable - solves a lot of puzzles also, including the dent to the chrome - just in my opinion. However, it is still my firm belief that the traces of a shot from the front were removed from historical record - photographic, eye-witness as possible, film, x-ray and medical examination. I still believe that this shot closely followed that graze wound from the rear - and will continue to do so - otherwise there is really no need for Coley to have his photos of the pool of blood in this area confiscated with a warning not to talk, or intimidation of witnesses, gag rule to the SS, strange inconsistencies in the photographic and film records, etc. And the focus should be here on the stairs - where a large part of the action went down - hiding in plain sight. Quite honestly, I believe we have overestimated what transpired in this vicinity - primarily due to malefaction on the part of our Government - including a lot of cowards that took the pocket veto [pensions, job security, following orders, covering their butts, political views, whatever]. The point here, which may not be clear, is that there was some funny business going on while these seized sources were under control. More on that another time - no I don't trust Shaneyfelt either - or Hoover, Dulles, Ball, Johnson, Decker, Specter, Ford, etc. - lee

Hey Chris - Thanks - I don't care to trust anything from Myers personally. Am I in the ballpark on the timing in your opinion? Speaking for myself, I always reached the same conclusion - that there were only 2 men on the stairs in the Willis - Hudson and the young man he encountered prior to the arrival of the motorcade. The only other visible figure is of course BDM. - lee

Ballpark?

Does this look to be accurate?