Kirk Gallaway

Wow, good responses! I get it Dave, I agree Sandy, I'm sure there are people in government with heavy suspicions. As far as a comprehensive answer, Chris probably most represents my overview. It's not inconceivable to me that no one in government has known who killed JFK for this entire century or longer, which of course doesn't preclude living perpetrators , accomplices or people with knowledge, in other locations. What I find interesting in these responses is that nobody at least yet, has expressed commitment to the idea that any specific person is deeply concerned and is strongly resisting the release of the information, except maybe in this last sentence from Ben. Ben: All that said, somebody is putting a lot of effort into concealing records under the JFK Act. Perhaps there are records yet that may point, if not reveal. Yes, but as Chris has alluded to, that can be indicative of nothing, but a general agency stonewalling that can be accomplished with the stroke of a pen.

First off , Hallelujah for the verdict to the family of Ahmaud Arbery! Happy Thanksgiving to the Americans here! Another of Ben's heroes. Glenn Greenwald who tweeted about 10 times yesterday, from his compound in Brazil, tweeting about what else but of course , the United States!, actually said a couple of days ago something to the effect that liberals will be devastated to learn that Kyle Rittenhouse actually is a fan of Black Lives Matter! I've noticed he's pulled the tweet, maybe it's because of complete inaccuracy and maybe, hopefully it's because he learned of this. Maybe he has some hesitation about officially joining the tasteless inane "Stick it to the libs" crowd. but isn't it kind of too late for that, Glenn? The red square at the bottom (below) is "Mount Trumpmore" a sculpture given to Trump from a fan in Iowa.Again, you can't make this stuff up! More recently, I've been fed e mails from Twitter. Including Greenwald's tweets. What a cesspool of communication and negatively Twitter is! I had heard that before, and while I'm sure there are worse people than Greenwald there.But of the tweets I've received of people of notoriety, Greenwald is without a doubt, the darkest, most negative person that I receive tweets from. Some of his jealousies definitely involve Glenn whining about earning power. He actually masqueraded as quite the Socialist, attacking Sam Seder in a tweet for being a hypocrite because Seder is in favor of further taxing the wealthy and yet he earns money through his podcasts! I'd bet Seder may earn a couple 100k a year! Aww Too bad Glen! Just an endless diatribe of insults, revealing his dark obsession withe Left, and curiously Rachael Maddow. He seems so hard up for money. I fully expect him to challenge Maddow to a mud wrestling match!

This is a question I have that it seems a number of people here seem to allude to being more certain about than I am. If we consider that the CIA or MIC, the American military establishment carried out the assassination of JFK. Are there people in government now, holding on to files, documentation or personal knowledge of this, that are resisting at all costs, the release of this information?

Jeff (opening line):And yet… two new books this year (Litwin, Long) and the Wiener Rolling Stone hatchet job can be said to have been written anticipating the JFK Revisited Of course they are. They capitalize on the controversy of the current conspiracy climate, they capitalize on any new releases such as "Looking glass"., they capitalize on the date of Nov.22nd. Jeff Again I'll tell you , it's called capitalism! Ben:I suspect one reason there were so many national-security-state planted books and articles this year was the Stone- Oh you suspect, (hedging) Ben??? i know you're the self appointed "shaking in his boots" NSS forum town crier. But give me one specific example. Ben: Case Closed! Ben again, you don't understand basic American Capitalism. In the 60's we use to say "hippies (or protestors) create police" and "police create hippies". Just substitute JFK researches and LN writers. Neither of you guys have showed a shread of evidence that any institution is paying any authors to write this stuff. Whether you agree with them about Russia Gate, there are millions of people who disagree with you who are not being paid off by some totalitarian bureaucracy, but they can site a lot more circumstantial evidence about that, then you're about to produce to me now that these writers are being paid off by some totalitarian bureaucracy. So let's hear your proof! That is the implied title of this thread. Operation Mockingbird was a government sponsored effort to effect media coverage. Don't try to bs me with no specifics.. Jeff: It’s fairly obvious the American establishment remains deeply concerned this genie gets out of the bottle, Maybe fairly obvious to you, a guy only a few years back who would actually believe one person (curiously a woman) would actually want to go down in history as being the person to push the button to destroy Russia and China with nuclear annihilation, and actually would be applauded for taking such action??!! Any person who would entertain such an idea would reflect to me a certain depravity. Certainly your statements in recent years Jeff, have been more moderate. But why in the remaining world would I trust your judgment about "what is fairly obvious."? Show me some meetings , like the Russia Gate people do. Try to prove to me that this situation isn't any different than what I said earlier. People writing books to get their message across and /or bluster their opinions to make some money!

For example, Nobody fears the release of the JFK files. There's very little left anyway, IMO. There aren't really people paid specifically to propagate against the JFKAC. That topic is far way and long ago. They simply disagree, as astonishing as that may seem to some. There's was once planned resistance , but now it's been institutionalized through so many generations, it's not even recognized.. The fear always being described here is really just the rolling of the eyes of the editors. Absolutely no one is descending from on high to tell them that printing this content is forbidden, but each publication does have it's market niche and it's inherited skepticism or relative open tradition to the JFKAC. New talent that comes on board already know that there's a general group think about that as well as many other matters. Hate to say it but I've been warning about this for years.. Now with the advent of the Trump Conspiracy Spinoff (TCS) and Q anon, the topic is treated more with an intellectual disgust. That element is treated rightly as a group rationalizing their personal failures as the work of some great conspiracy that controls their lives. There's elements of that in all massive conspiracy proponents, but the poisonous effects of these new wacko groups have, to a degree contaminated the efforts of the JFKAC community. The spinoff has now been inextricably linked. And, as unfair as that is, it's sort of inevitable..

Hmm, what brought that up? Ben, i notice a pattern with you about women, either their super powerful evil shrews that you obsess about for repeated posts like, Liz Cheney, Hilary Clinton, and Amy Klobuchar or you actually display pictures of what you depict as hopeless little women who were at the 1/6 riots and ask us to accept that they''l l never be a threat again by their picture alone! Is that that kind of conservative thing that you "want a girl just like the girl who married dear old Dad. " heh heh

Buffalo Horns sentenced to 41 months! Whew! Ben's "Save my lulu's campaign " has been dealt a severe blow. His Q Anon shaman, Jacob Chansley (a.k.a. Angeli) or "Buffalo horns" has been sentenced to 41 months in prison! Apparently he gave a 31 minute plea for lenience promising he would never do anything like this again. The judge said that it was the most touching plea for innocence he had ever heard and then hit him with 41 months! It does seem a bit much because an identical 41 month sentence was given to a violent offender who brutally beat a Capitol cop. But honestly, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. High profile people do pay a price, I assume anywhere. Maybe he can get off in a couple of years. Though I think he can appeal. https://13wham.com/news/nation-world/qanon-shaman-jacob-chansley-sentenced-41-months-january-6-insurrection-us-capitol-washington-dc As I recall, someone paid his ticket out to Washington that day. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot. The Trump people have been looking desperately for photo evidence just like this to foment trouble through guilt by association. Here he is with Rudy Giuliani. But you've barely seen this photo in the msm. Doesn't that indicate some sort of restraint that you know Trump people would have never really exhibited?

Jeff, We know, of course, what happened. I probably should have given the most likely negative scenario, had Trump been more successful. Jeff: It seemed to me that all the nuts were already at the rally, I don't think so. If Pence was sequestered from the Capitol, and as Kellogg had feared was persuaded not to return. The optics of Nancy Pelosi certifying the election in his place probably would have precipitated a nationwide backlash that Fox and other right wing outlets would have hailed as a "Great patriot revolt to the stealing of an election".. That would have been inextricably polarizing and destabilizing, and possibly prompting a police response that would be even further destabilizing.

Jeff, I'll go with you on the point of various media outlets posing questions like. "to think how close we came". Implying that we were bordering an overthrow. Trump and the people around him would never have succeeded. But there would have been 2 to 3 days of utter chaos, that could have been very destabilizing, bringing all the nuts out of the woodwork, claiming they've been stolen. I don't know if you're just asleep up there in Canada, but I've been to a few places, and in every country on earth that will precipitate a clampdown, and a much more immediate police action than your future prediction in your last sentence. So even though it wouldn't topple the government. You're perception of the threat, seems very cavalier. So Jeff, from what you've gathered, do you think Trump could be guilty of crimes here, that in a just society should put him in prison?

Ben, you've also said this. Ben: (the Democrats are)tight with , the national security-Deep State So by juxtaposition, you're making a red blue comparison here. Let's examine that. This is the silly elephant in the room. A sloppy thinking, bait and switch theory that Ben seems to be buying. If the NSS is on the side of the peaceful transfer of power in a legitimate election, and the overwhelming majority agree, it's absurd to say the NSS is controlled by the Democrats. In this case, it's aligned with the will of the people. Since that argument is more fears and feelings and hold holds no weight. The next thing to do is the very thing the corporate powers don't want you to do is "Follow the money". The defense contributions including the National Security "deep state" run about 55% to 45% for the Republicans, and as you might know many corporate funders fund both sides of the aisle to hedge their bets so that's why it's as close as it is. Trump as he bragged, initiated the biggest peacetime increase in our lifetime. In the previous Obama administration Obama gave less than the defense department requested in 7 of 8 of his years in office. Trump gave what was requested in all 4 years asked except I believe in his last year,Trump was slightly under which could be explained as budgetary constrictions in the transition. These are facts. We have never had a Presidential conflict of personal interests in government as Trump ever before. Is it so unbelievable that that would raise red flags in government? Not at all! So to those who are so willing to inject the specter of the " JFKAC , that is the NSS as a menacing pro active force", during the Trump years, If we use the NSS whistle blowing that lead to the first Trump impeachment where the overwhelming majority in Congress thought Trumps actions were either 1)worthy of removal from office or 2)very highly improper but didn't rise to the level of removal, anyone who would fault the exposure of such actions as an overstep of the NSS is off their rockers. What we saw in the Trump Presidency is not so much the stridency of the "NS deep state" but it's malleability to the executive branch. In that we can at least say there's certainly no shortage of examples of shady attempts by the Trump administration to use the government, and his position in government which was obviously no surprise as that was also the proven case with Ukraine's Zelensky, but according to Josh Bolton's book, despite all Trump's rhetoric, Trump was willing to offer concessions to our greatest trade rival, China's Xi, if he would investigate Biden, and for brevity sake we'll leave partial forum favorite Putin out of it for now. We could also talk about Trump using his office,to phone up the Georgia AG to throw out the results of a legitimate election. Then there's Sec. of State, Mike Pompeo (who you've expressed great admiration for ,Ben) went to the CIA with his plan to kidnap Julian Assange! (Who you extol as a hero.) Can you imagine a greater violation of First Amendment rights? And yet you were notably silent. Where was your usual knee jerk First Amendment outrage, Ben? Pompeo then made a speech, trying to establish a legal foundation to kidnap Assange but not specifically talking of a plot. But for some reason it didn't happen. So it was Trump Sec of State going to intelligence to propose a plan to kidnap Assange, and doesn't come away with a plan. We obviously can't say why it never transpired. But probably because the CIA said it wasn't wise! So who was the greater threat there? One can be entangled in superficial appearances. But there were plenty of other reasons why anybody from any department of government might not be thrilled with Trump other than the sort of boring, boilerplate assertion by Trumpies that Trump was a peaceful non warmongering, non kidnapping president that wouldn't go with the NSS grand plan which again explodes into myth as Biden accomplished in 8 months to get of Afghanistan, a feat that Trump couldn't do in 4 years! So there's no reason to assume that one party controls the NSS. And to further explode this myth I'll make a prediction that if a non Trump Republican gets in office in 2024, no matter what the disenfranchise Trump supporters think, the traditional relationship between the Republican Presidents and their NSS will probably resume. History shows, to assume any Republican would give up such levers of power is absurd. Sorry! .

Concerning that Denny, Another thing I found interesting in that interview is that Trump, in his all consuming desire for attention can't help but reveal is that he knew where Pence was, and was ok, which means it's pretty obvious he knew Pence was going to be removed from the Capitol. If Karl had just asked , what was the plan for Pence that day, and wouldn't that have effectively stopped certification? It would be interesting to hear Trump's answer.

W.-- Chris D. is talking about my post on Karl from Tuesday. In addition, Pence while waiting with his family has an aide pass him Trumps tweet that "Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done".(below). Eventually a car comes for Pence to take him from the Capitol. Was it Trump's tweet that convinced the otherwise spinless Pence to not to take the car, and keep the Congressional plan to certify?? 5 hours, waiting around with his family!---Wow.!Pence the human punching bag. Is there any limit to the bullying Pence is willing to take? **** Matt, I haven't seen any corroboration, at least yet. But if Pence was locked out of their offices in the capitol complex during the insurrection because their access badges had been DEACTIVATED the morning of the attack. That's a potential bombshell! Jonathan Karl in his book" Betrayal", says there are photos and film on 1/6 of a sequestered Pence and his family standing for awhile in a parking area, while waiting for the transfer out of the Capitol area. In that moment a Pence aide shows Pence Trump's tweet that “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution.” Pence reads it and barely shows a grimace. Shortly after a car comes for Pence to leave the Capitol and he turns it down. Trump feels betrayed that Republican party let him down and proceeded with the certification, and upon leaving Washington the RNC chairwoman Ronna Mac Donnel (you know that rather young woman who looks like she might be a manager of a KFC, like DVP?) phones Trump to wish him farewell. Trump becomes angry, and says he's leaving the Republican Party and starting his own party. After meeting with the RNC, Mc Donnel tells Trump that he better not or he's on the hook in campaign expense and legal fees involving his post election challenges that could total 100 million dollars!, and the RNC will keep his list of supporters. Trump then backs down!!. You can't make this stuff up! https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-told-rnc-chair-leaving-gop-create-party/story?id=80979889

Of course,I know. Salt is also about California as well as the other high state tax East Coast states writing off part of their federal taxes to the States. ( Hudson doesn't seem to know that) I got plugged bad on that one one year, and Trump moved to Florida! But things are looking better now!😀 Jeff, You've come a long way from the guy who only 3 years ago was convinced that Hilary Clinton was going to launch a nuclear attack on both Russia and China simultaneously while you said "there was a window to do so" .At one point i characterized your stuff as "one note", remember? And I said the real culprit is not the mighty deep state generals, but the corporate state. Well damn, dude, you're schooling me now! The Republicans got their tax cuts to the wealthy with a 52-48, but couldn't stop the Affordable Care Act. The Dems were 50-50 but it may as well be 52-48..I see Bernie and Warren as the only anti corporate candidates. It will be interesting to see what Bernie says, He can't be happy.

Trump to minority leader Kevin Mc Carthy in their phone call,safter his being sequestered from the Capitol: Trump: well Kevin, I guess they're (the rioters) are just more upset about the election than you. As a New Blue Cheer leader, heh heh, (Sorry, American reference) .I'd like the Democrats to answer the question of why Republican Minority leader Kevin Mc Cartyhy isn't presently being considered to testify as to his correspondence with Trump during the riots. If this is the exclusive good old boys club, they should be asked and say so. I'd like to see what they say. It will be embarrassing and should be! Where the hell is Merrick Garland? There's been plenty of time for him to slap a contempt of Congress on Steve Banon! We don't need Biden to appoint someone as an AG as a consolation prize for not being appointed to the Supreme Court! ***** Jonathan Karl in his book" Betrayal", says there are photos and film on 1/6 of a sequestered Pence and his family standing for awhile in a parking area, while waiting for the transfer out of the Capitol area. In that moment a Pence aide shows Pence Trump's tweet that “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution.” Pence reads it and barely shows a grimace. Shortly after a car comes for Pence to leave the Capitol and he turns it down. Trump feels betrayed that Republican party let him down and proceeded with the certification, and upon leaving Washington the RNC chairwoman Ronna Mac Donnel (you know that rather young woman who looks like she might be a manager of a KFC, like DVP?) phones Trump to wish him farewell. Trump becomes angry, and says he's leaving the Republican Party and starting his own party. After meeting with the RNC, Mc Donnel tells Trump that he better not or he's on the hook in campaign expense and legal fees involving his post election challenges that could total 100 million dollars!, and the RNC will keep his list of supporters. Trump then backs down!!. You can't make this stuff up! https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-told-rnc-chair-leaving-gop-create-party/story?id=80979889

That long winded personal response doesn't obscure that you've evaded the question concerning the pervasiveness of the corporate state twice now. Which I was expecting. You haven't elevated anything beyond the personal yet. Chris, look at page 499 and tell me you're not the most verbose person here. I've been very civil to you despite your rather snarky opening comments. As to your comment of my being dehumanizing. I'll remind that you've become unraveled a number of times with my count is 3 people. With me, you actually called me a n--z-i. You thought this was a "loosey goosey anything goes" forum and you ended up being wrong. I've never been reprimanded here. I will explain, from my side, I see you as coming off with a lot of erroneous information from time to time, and when you indulge in figures, you're way off. And you will be held to task. You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

I'm not a cheer leader for the blue party, but given the current situation. I don't want my country taken over by fascists. and I feel no contradiction to my belief system, just as I've always been against bullies since I was young, and now I'm against Fascists. Understood? You've made a lot of very parochial assumptions in that question Chris. Whereas my question to you is unassuming.. Please tell me in your words about the present day pervasiveness of the corporate state? Or do you find it pervasive? If not why?

Chris:It seems like the arguing with Dennis & I over the past year or so has influenced your world outlook. Oh really? i think you're overestimating your influence Chris. I haven't interacted much with you and hardly at all with Dennis. Since you're giving me your impression of who you think I am. I'll give mine and I'll say i don't put you and Dennis at all in the same bag, or are really motivated at all by the same things. Please tell me in your words about the present day pervasiveness of the corporate state.

Richard, I think your posts have always been thoughtful and you should contribute. I agree, of course, as you know, that's the same problem of humans and any governing body. since the beginning of time.But we see where this is headed, and eliminating this influence can only help, and only lead to further transparency.

Page #500!!!! Jeff, Substantively the articles are pretty much the same. I don't how you brought Russiagate in here. But regarding the article. I, cover all this here. I was inspired through Dennis's . "Biden beyond the veil" about the release of the JFK files. So I start by weighing in on that. But I think the topic was just sort of a prop for Dennis expansively telling us about his view of the insidiousness of the present day deep state. And that's cool with me, and I continue with that. I'm conversationally often talking to Dennis, here but it could be to everyone.. I'm going to share with you what some might find JFK- to- present-day- deep- state nihilism. I try to expose what I think is a lot of myth making by a lot of people here, so I don't expect it to be popular or fall along some ideological lines. But I think there are some twists and turns to common perceptions.I don;t think anybody that I've heard post here has posted anything that I think is near what would be called the "Deep state." I'm not sure any of the allegations thrown out have ever been solution oriented but often just general rants of personal frustration (which I understand). which can be true, but I feel there's a great confusion about who the true enemy is and how it manifests. I welcome everyone's response. ***** First re the Government response to the JFKA research communities requests. I don't think anybody in government is conscious of any real "bombs" in the remaining JFK files, and is holding on for dear life to withhold valuable information from the public. I agree that maybe the research done by the outside is impressive to the government, but it's probably not even enough to make them further undertake any great research into it. The effort that you seem to imply that the "powers that be" are taking to conceal is probably averted with a stroke of a pen. I'm not sure, but I'm afraid it might be a case where you're setting yourself up for profound disappointment as to the resistance offered and the nature of the existing content. Try this. IMO Nobody in government knows who killed JFK, and that in itself is probably worthy of a thread. And just as with the government, now in 2021 I'm not sure the subset of people who may be aware through family connection or corporate connection, of their ancestral or company complicity in the JFKA are included among any of the worlds "powers that be", in any loose sense, much less directly pulling the levers of the NSS or are themselves current kingpins of industry. I'm not saying it couldn't possibly be. The notion that there are 5th generation career government bureaucrats that are being groomed for high government positions to guard the JFKA secrets is rather absurd to me. But I suppose there could be some wealthy heirs that know their dark family secrets, but are they really as heavy players on the world scene today as new generations of wealth that have been amassed at a pace unheard of with the old money? (We have RFK JR complaining about the massive profits being made by Pinterest!!) And do the successive generations really have that much on the ball? But I suppose it's the RFK Jr. generation that would be keeping the secrets, like maybe that Du Pont heir who was obsessed with wrestling and ended being a murderer who Steve Carel played in that movie. heh heh Ok, I digress, I don't mean to be a party pooper, But these are the conclusions to me, that make the most sense. Dennis: Some researchers have done great work on the political reasons for the murder, but very few branch out to put the JFK case in proper historical context. Admittedly, this is much harder to do. Ok it certainly is. I think this is your central theme, isn't it? I've already tried to discuss with you some of your covid theories. I'll leave your covid tie in to the JFKA alone, and try to focus on what I think are your most lucid points. You always seem very comprehensive in your scope, which I can relate to. Dennis:We say it was a coup but then don’t follow that logic through to today. If the security services were involved, the important question is who do they serve? That's a good question. But drawing the direct line to today is, as you said harder to do. The reason is that the initial culprits IMO, were comprised of a relatively very small group of National Security and the MIC defending corporate interests, but that group was so narrow. The interests back then were largely industrial, securing raw materials through out the world. Those industries are larger now, but actually a smaller percentage of the pie now than it was and really now only a drop in the bucket of the total world GDP.. Honestly Dennis, again, the modern day culprit isn't even a "who". And there's really no "there" there. heh heh. If you're really serious about focusing and not just making scattershot allegations. If you really want change, you have to know the nature of your enemy, the Corporate State, which infiltrates and controls governments in various degrees throughout the world. What is of prime importance to realize is that the Corporate State, being multi national, has only one real potential foe, and that is the federal governments of the world stopping them in their tracks by extracting taxes from them for their enormous gains, as over our lifetime they have had large success in in infiltrating these governments and obstructing policy to do so. It's in the corporate interest to a degree to foment the current climate of government distrust, to the masses of people, by propagating that the government is an intrusive evil, that takes away your rights, intrudes on your privacy, and extracts taxes from your hard earned pay, so as to create a climate of resentment to taxation and a resultant defunding of government. But all these evils of government are in large part, because they control it! You have to cut the serpent off at it's head, that is, get rid of corporate influence. Your misdirection in confusing the culprit as the temporal nation state government is just music to the ears of the Corporate State, who while they are quite content with the status quo, as they've been winning the game marginalizing the middle class for the last 40 years. ( In fact they're even willing to give some back in taxes) None the less they would love to control the narrative to capitalize on misdirected anger to enrage people against the government in order to find reasons to defund the Government "administrative state" (as Steve Banon puts it.), which of course would be a great windfall for them. The fact that they have such an existing role in government already means they can regulate the specific ways the government is defunded. The world Corporate State philosophy is essentially a Libertarian philosophy that states that people are primarily responsible for their own survival, (which in their dishonest jargon, "survival" is exalted as "freedom" and" liberty") and there should be as little of a Government security net as possible. So in their ideal state, (which outside of a few groups, they know isn't completely achievable, unless there's an economic catastrophic event). They would probably scale back the government to the pre New Deal, if they could get away with it. This isn't in any way to say that all people in corporations are alike or evil. Many of them individually have different ideas about the role of a government safety net. But that's the elegance and seamlessness of it. No one person can be held to blame! Similarly, It is this philosophy that is the reason, that there are no conspiracies per se, (oh, boo hoo!) in that none of them have to sit around and plot and conspire against you and me. They just naturally think alike.

Kudos Jeff!😀 That's probably the most cogent link I've seen from a foreigner on this thread in at least recent history. Of course it would be a Canadian. There are a few coals on the fire in the U.S. other than Ben's' "Save my Lulu's" campaign. Jeff, I see now that your leanings, as I suspected are more typically Canadian, which I like. But it's as I said in my post last week. The Democrats don't have any real majority Hudson's obviously a progressive but technically wrong in that the voters didn't vote for Biden to advance the progressive agenda, but did overwhelmingly want all the things in his progressive agenda, and I explain the contradiction there. Most of it is because there are huge groups of people in red states that vote against their stated interests, to put it as kind as I can. They'd accept it if it was from the Republicans but the Republicans only want increased Defense spending and to give tax cuts to the rich. What Hudson seems to imply is that this whole buildup was a fake out to convince the progressive wing that they at least had good intentions, but never really intended to go through. But he seems to trust Bernie Sanders. Bernie has spent hundreds of hours on this and if he says this whole thing was a fake out, I'd believe him, but he hasn't, at least yet. But when they couldn't get the holdouts, Maserati,Big Yacht Joe Manchin and Senema, and couldn't assemble a real consensus, the more moderates just caved. P.S.I was disappointed to see Hudson bring up Mac Aulife. Mac Aulife lost becomes he's kind of a windbag. But give him credit in that he at least conceded. The mafioso Republican guy who lost by more in the New Jersey Governor's race, still hasn't conceded. This is what W. is schooling Chris about "lies". There is an objective reality. Sometimes you just have to do some homework.

Chris is always judging everything in the U,S. from up on the moon where "everything's everything" and making broad proclamations so he can hide the fact that he can't answer any of the most basic nuts and bolts questions about U.S. politics with any real specificity .He holds the distinction of being the only person on the forum to swallow the big lie the day following the election. Ben isn't quite as clueless because he can pool all of his 3 authors who basically think the same.

Ron said: 1984? That's right Ron. Hell hath no fury as Glen (and Ben?) scorned. Of course I don't think Greenwald should be removed from twitter, but his tweets are a perpetual monotonous, (but certainly mesmerizing to Ben), bitchfest and railing against the" corporate democrats" who ironically have now been trying to engineer the biggest social works program, since FDR, but fell 2 people short because they can't can't seem to get around the Fox strangle hood of their red state constituencies, and win any kind of solid majority in elections. This despite the fact t that you ask all these people in red states if they'd like expanded medicare benefits, if they'd like to break up big pharma's ban on competitive collective bargaining pricing for prescription drugs, as Canada has. If they'd like help with child care, If they'd like help with paid leave during childbirth and all they seem to unaminously agree they would, and yet can't make the leap that that's what the Democrats want to give them, because they've swallowed the culture wars and this Democrat "elitist" label that the true economic elitists as Tucker,Fox news opinion makers have spoonfed them. But the travesty is, they are joined by Greenwald, who should know better but is only thrashing out because despite being an avid first amendment proponent had a critical lapse of judgment and and was shunned by the intelligentsia for being an enabler in 2016 of the biggest presidential first amendment tyrant of any President in U.S. history, and because of that is on an endless hissyfit about the "Democrats and the liberal media establishment." Having said that, I can understand that some people might oppose all this spending, but they're in the vast minority. A lot of the opposition are just mesmerized with the Fox culture wars and don't vote in their interest. But they would gladly accept such spending if it was given to them by the Republicans, but unfortunately they only want to appropriate more money for defense and to cut revenue by lowering taxes to millionaires. Which has some sort of twisted appeal to them, because in their dreams, that's the kind of problem they'd like to have. https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=30643&key=e576d9fb4f72757000dc6911101efe23Gr

Sylvio , SVZ said "there's a war going on but only one side is fighting it." Stop worrying about offending people who are trying to overthrow the government, We've been worrying about them for a couple of hundred years. Start at 2:00. If Trump runs again. Do you guys know all he has to do is primary 2 or 3 state governors or elect new state Secretary of States, (who run the state elections and are currently resigning from office) and if we have a replay of 2020, Trump will make up more BS about voter fraud but this time he'll have his people successfully throwing out the elections and put it to the one state one vote house of representatives? Then we'll have a real mess. The general Democratic Party narrative seems to be sort of whistling by the graveyard, confident that Pro Trump candidates can easily win primaries but are poor in the general election. Are they that confident? Their margins in both houses are so slim, they have no certainty, with the almost automatic turnover that occurs in the off year Congressional elections, that their majority will hold up at all. Regarding the hearings, The Dems are again talking a tough game, But if the gentlemanly rules of Congress won't allow them to potentially imprison another member. Are they really going to protect us against fascists? If Democrats don't have a prayer of successfully prosecuting Trump they should say so. Or explain exactly what the follow up game is. There are lots of other criminal suits going on against Trump, but Trumps lawyers can postpone them at least until after the 2022 elections. Just the election fraud of Trump's phone call to the Georgia AG, is plenty enough to send Trump to jail and we have plenty of witnesses. Are criminals going to be prosecuted? It's as if the President is beyond prosecution and can do whatever he wants because prosecuting him and throwing him in jail would be too reminiscent of Banana Republics. And we're supposed to be above that but that's nonsense, besides there are many examples of industrialized nations throwing their chief executives in jail including now France's Sarkozy has been sentenced.. No charges yet regarding Trump's phone call to the Georgia attorney general???? That's a slam dunk if ever there was one! It looks as if AG Garland is hesitant to prosecute Banon for Contempt of Congress. -Some recent tweets from Lawrence Tribe. -There is a strong case against the former president and his co-conspirators under each of a number of federal criminal statutes. Hesitating to seek indictments at this point would be an abdication of duty unworthy of the U.S. Justice Department. -We cannot have a system where a current president can’t be prosecuted, and then, because we don’t want to look backward, the former president can’t be prosecuted; that they’re somehow too big to jail.” -The conspiracy incubated at the Willard hotel to overthrow the government that had just won the 2020 election was a federal crime. 18 USC sec 2384. Bannon’s testimony would have to do with the planning of the events that led to the assault. If that’s an activity of the executive branch, it’s certainly not a legitimate one. Executive privilege doesn’t extend to hiding evidence of a coup.” Precisely! -raises all the hoops thru which DOJ will jump in deciding whether to indict Bannon, including OLC memos and Nixon v. GSA. But the bottom line remains: Bannon must be indicted if the rule of law (and AG Garland’s credibility) are to survive: -We’ve also learned Kevin McCarthy received money from Lev Parnas, the Rudy Giuliani sidekick whose money came through Ukrainian oligarch Firtash and who was convicted by a jury yesterday. And Oleg Deripaska seems to be involved. Hence Moscow Mitch, given Okeg’s Ky aluminum plant -I worry that many Americans are still blind, as I once was, to the authoritarian impulses that now grip Mr. Trump’s party. Democrats need to step up to thwart them.” -If it's right that AG Merrick Garland is reluctant to investigate former President Trump, then I agree that the AG is making a mistake of epic proportions. I hope and pray that Schiff is wrong about Garland. So odd that both were my students! -News: House GOP leaders are recommending a “no” vote on the criminal contempt referral for Steve Bannon, House GOP whip Steve Scalise announced in conference this morning, according to a source in the room. @MZanona reporting Tribe:No surprise there. Until the GOP becomes a genuine political party again and not just a pathetic and dangerous cult, it will continue to vote "no" on every effort to restore truth and to prevent another coup and insurrection Eliminate the Filibuster-Not a tough call, if you ask me. If democracy topples, of what possible use will the filibuster be? And, make no mistake, if we let the filibuster block legislation to protect voting rights and preserve electoral integrity, democracy will be on the chopping block.

Ben:Yes, the real-time observations of "nobodies" carry more weight with me than synthetic M$M news. Synthetic M$M news?, Believe your eyes. It's called live film. Ben:and only one protestor carried a firearm But they searched practically no one. Oh, Ok, I know what you're thinking Ben. In America firearms are everywhere!. But people can actually conceal firearms so no one can see them. Ben. I already obliterated your argument on that one, with your own arrest records, that you didn't look at in any detail. There was almost nobody arrested at the Capitol, except the most foolhardy. The vast majority of them were arrested days, months later from photo evidence, their own tweets, postings. other witnesses and being turned in by associates and family. You know, as I've said before. I think when people are good at predicting the future, it's usually because they have a very good grasp on the present. My experience has been when you're not relentlessly driving home stuff we already know, you haven't been right about anything yet. Which is not to say, you couldn't be in the future, I suppose. But I'm sure, like fellow Libertarian, Barry Goldwater, in your heart, you will always be right! heh heh But it is true, you did get me thinking about one thing. If I was to go off to Thailand,it would be in part to get some peace of mind from this contentious, everyday American life, but then.... I'm an American. But then you made me realize, if you're from any other country than America and you leave that country for any other country than America. Then....what else is there to think about, but America. Right Ben? I'm sure no one will accuse you of being a Buddhist! P.S. And about your brethren, your quotee Thomas Massey, whom I'm sure, as always you thoroughly researched, and probably empathize with. He's sort of a pariah in Congress. He was the guy who called everybody in Congress to come back from their home states to get a quorum on the voting of the coronavirus relief package in Spring 2020. He did this so every member of Congress would have to publicly go on the record with their vote, because he was concerned that some Republicans like him, would lie about it later. Which on the surface could sound like a good thing. But the vote turned out, like everything else to be almost straight down party lines anyway, so the net effect was that nobody later lied about their vote. He ended up just pissing off every other Congressman in both parties, and rendered himself completely ineffectual to the point that he'll forever be forced to follow because no one will work with him. Finger on the Pulse, Good show Thomas!

Ben, regarding that woman, Are you just going to dredge up every insignificant tweet from nobodies at the Capitol on 1/6 and insist that means something? Either that or you become obsessed with somebody who you've called "emblematic" like the buffalo horns guy? You always seen to be struggling with putting together 1/6 fragmented images in sort of a confused jumble. Maybe I can demystify this for you. There's a great abundance of film at the Capitol that day. Here in the states we had live feeds of some of the followers entering the open capitol taking cell phone pictures. These tweets you find compelling don't mystify us or make us scratch our head. I don't think the majority who entered the Capitol originally had an specific idea to break into the Capitol. Do you feel more validated now? All this is common knowledge. And here's something I think will be news to you. In the states we saw live feeds of police being over run by the rioters as well as police capitulating to the rioters! You act like this guy in the Federalist article is really somebody. Why would one guy walking around have any kind of comprehensive idea of what's really going on that any of us should put any real faith into? Particularly a guy from a far right pro Trump publication? We have a lot of film evidence. Ben: If you read the primary documents, many, many of the rioters inside the Capitol texted in real time that they were "let in." What's a many, many?. You also have a lot more definitive film evidence of people storming the Capitol, running through the police forces, in some cases attacking them, and breaking windows to enter. People can tweet anything. What's to stop them from lying and downplaying violence they may have seen?What is the more definitive evidence? Live film or tweets? But as I said, this isn't speculation. We've seen some photo evidence of rioters being let in the Capitol. And that possibly couldn't be because there are law enforcement who are inside Trump people? Ben: 1)But the Capitol Police and the DC Metropolitan Police do not report to Trump, but to Democratic Party officials. 2) second option is that Jan. 6 was instigated by provocateurs, in conjunction with police, which would not be a first in history.... 2)What you seem to be saying here isn't very clear. Are you saying that certain police people could have been inside men" for Trump? Or is this what you've been alluding to a number of times now, that this is some Italian,Pelosi, Antifa, Pizza Gate conspiracy theory? You always seem to be ending up insisting that Trump and his supporters are hapless victims. Like your phrase."velcro President" It's funny but it denotes sort of a victimhood as if Trump is doing nothing to merit the criticisms. There are a number of films that can show you time stamped maps of where rioters were pushing through as legislators, including Pence narrowly escapes them, if you choose to look at them. It will be a lot more enlightening then showing insignificant tweets or accounts from "nobodies."