Michael Walton

So now I'm really confused. Way up above, Josephs says: The FBI forged the boy's school records by changing the cumulative PERM record. All the information from each school is sent to a central location where PERM records are kept... Then Hargrove (or John A) says: Indeed! What Mr. Walton clearly doesn’t understand is that the FBI tried hard to make the evidence for two Oswalds disappear. So now the running narrative here is - one researcher and supporter of HL says the FBI had to forge the boy's records to prove there was a clone and then the next HL researcher says the same FBI, after forging the records, also tried to make the evidence disappear. So were they forging disappearing school records... ...or were they disappearing forged school records? Then John Hargrove goes on to say: This evidence actually goes back more than ten years before the assassination. This is why, for example, Hoover had to combine the school records for two boys going by the same name and try to make it appear that only one boy existed. So now it goes back even earlier...to what? To when the Hungarian kid and Oswald were in diapers? And now he has Hoover - who I am definitely not a fan of - switching and faking the records? If the original unfaked records proved that there were two Oswalds, why not just make the records disappear? That way, it will keep the narrative tidy, that LHO acted alone and had nothing to do with the government in any way (which is what they wanted the official narrative to be)? What's really sad about this is not Hargrove, who seems to only post on here about HL, but once again Josephs. I mean this guy wrote a good story on Oswald not being in MC. I do believe he is correct with that narrative because if we are to believe that LHO was merely a pawn in all of this, that he was being manipulated and eventually steered into the TSBD so he could be blamed for the murder, there really was no reason for him to go down to MC. And there really is no photographic proof that he was in fact down there. We all know that the photos that they tried to pass on as LHO down there were not him and Hoover said as much. And we do have the ultimate proof that he was steered into the book building to take the fall when he blurted out after being arrested, "I'm nothing but a patsy" as he was whisked away by the cops. So Josephs's MC story was a good one. It was even published on the Kennedys and King site for crying out loud! But, at least for me, it really puts a lot of doubt in my mind when this same person who wrote about MC also says that yes, HL really happened and oh by the way, the FBI forged 10 year old school records to prove there were two LHO's. He says all of this when he seems to forget that the whole goal was to make the US born LHO look like he was a crazed nut assassin acting alone with no help and no clone running around. Just your average run-of-the-mill Marxist mad man who decided to buy a rifle one day and blow the president's head off.

Jim - no scorn here. Ask yourself - does this whole fairy tale really exist? Ten whole years before the assassination? David Josephs is now claiming that the FBI faked his school records for crying aloud! When will the silliness all end? And I guess you believe Josephs too - that you, too, actually believe this nonsense, in addition to all of the other nonsense piled into one big pile? I mean, I never seen you post on other threads - this HL caper seems to be the only one you speak of. What about everything else on here? Are you that carried away with Armstrong's story (or are you in fact John A?) that your sole aim is to keep this story alive for god knows what reason?

My take - there was a letter by the FBI published of a "George Bush" who made a statement about knowing such and such a character who may have talked about the assassination. He reported it to the FBI and that's how the memo was generated. The real Bush denied it was him, that there was a clerk named "Bush" who did this reporting. I do find that hard to believe. The real Bush was involved in the oil business and owned a boat called Zapata (or Barbara J). It may have been used as a gun-running or some such monkey business (training anti-Castro Cubans). I'm going by memory here. Was Bush in Dealey? IMO - no, just like I don't believe Hoover, Nixon, Hunt, Lansdale, Ford, Lincoln, and Marilyn Monroe were in Dealey. Bush then of course goes on to direct the CIA (of all places), becomes VP, then President. Just like Ford - who wrote in the WR that JFK's back wound was in the "neck" - became President. Ford writing that was just his way of making sure everything was really really accurate. You know, to insure that there was only one assassin (LHO) and no confederates. So what does it all mean? Who knows. Like DiEugenio would say - it's all speculation and supposition.

David - they didn't always forge everything including these records. These records go back 10 whole years before the murder. Why in the world would they ever want to forge 10-year-old records?! It doesn't make sense because it has no real bearing on the JFK murder. If the government was trying to paint the Oswald arrested in Dallas on 11/22 as the sole assassin by trumping up his history - that he was a wife beater showing he had a violent streak or was in MC planning his grand escape to either Cuba or Russia after he kills Kennedy - then, yes, I can see that happening just like I can see them fudging the rifle order purchase. The FBI's main goal after 11/22 was to pin the blame on Oswald. That's all. Creating a whole Oswald clone story by making it appear that he had a super-secret government-sponsored clone goes completely goes AGAINST their intended aims because if they tried to make it look like Oswald was involved in some secret clone operation, then that actually PROVES conspiracy or will raise a lot of red flags in the official narrative of what happened. Remember what Katzenbach wrote? That was the government's marching orders right there - blame (the now dead) Oswald and show he had no confederates, that he acted alone. Taking these incomplete records of his school history and turning it into the HL fantasy story is actually beneath you as a serious researcher after the good work you did on the MC story. Not everything about this case has been faked nor forged and for you to believe the crazy HL story really throws that MC story you wrote into serious question of whether you can plausibly and reasonably analyze the case. It'd be like John Newman - after all of the good work he's done - suddenly doing an about-face and saying Kennedy was murdered by little green men hiding in Jackie's pink suit. It would also be like Pat Speer - another researcher who I respect and tries to keep it real and doesn't venture into the "batxxxx crazy" wing of researchers you find on this forum - would suddenly say that the Zapruder film was actually produced on a Hollywood studio backlot. To be honest, it's really shocking that you're so into this crazy HL story after writing your well-documented MC story. I guess it just goes to show that even good researchers can let craziness get the better of them.

It IS one of the funniest posts on this forum. Ron, you misunderstood my whole intention for my "HAHA" moment above. But I won't hold it against you because you probably didn't see the post I was referring to and why I said Ruby's basement. So I'll try to fill you in. You see, there are some pretty "interesting" people on this board. They think anything and everything happened on 11/22 and one of those, Michael Clark, actually thought that because a telecommunication company purchased the building that used to house Ruby's nightclub had an excessive amount of copper wiring in it when it was refurbished, that - BOING - a lightbulb went off in his head and he made the truly funny (strange vs laughing I'll leave it up to you) that "Of course! Ruby's nightclub must have been the communication nerve center on 11/22!!!" So I've been needling him about it ever since, poking fun (and lots and lots of holes) in his mad little theory. So to clarify, it doesn't matter WHICH floor the nightblub was on in the building - the key is if you play along with Clark's little charade, the nerve center where Dulles, Hoover, Hunt and even LBJ (by the way the LBJ in the parade car was an impostor...the real LBJ was actually in the nerve center on 11/22 co-directing the assassination with Hoover; Dulles was nothing more than an errand boy, bringing them high balls from the bar) that he's quite a camper here. Which brings me to the second funniest comment here - Clark is simply all over the place on this forum and seems bored out of his mind to the point that's posting all over here. HAHA - now, that's funny.

One school record shows "last school" as NYC. And the other school record shows "last school" as Texas. But we're expected to believe that when one Oswald was there, and then the clone was there that no one at the school ever said, "Hmmm, wasn't he here before?" Nothing like that was ever said by anyone at either school. But we're expected to believe that the clones were attending consecutively? You'd think if it was that there'd be some kind of witness statements remembering this. That never happened.

I'm not posting it again for you, Sandy. Do a little research and find it. Afraid? Bawahaha - so, so funny! Meanwhile, because this thread is quite frankly getting a little boring, here's a fun "greatest hits" from way back when this thread first started. I had posted an animated GIF showing how one LHO photo looks almost identical to the LHO mug shot. Two others here liked it. Amazingly, Hargrove had previously lined up photos of LHO and had the audacity to include in this line up the photos taken in MC of the people who the government tried to pass on as Oswald - but even Hoover debunked! Unbelievable. He then goes on to "correct" my GIF with: HARGROVE: EDIT: For the purpose of discussing this, Michael, let's say the two images in your gif are of the same person. So what are they? The first image is from the passport Harvey Oswald used for his false defection in 1959. The second is Harvey's arrest photo. John and I had always assumed that Harvey put Lee's photo on his passport application. But if it is actually a picture of Harvey, all that proves is that he used his own photo instead of Lee's. It hardly disproves the Harvey and Lee evidence. See, as one example, my next post. Every single time - without fail - Hargrove then plays Whack-A-Mole, substituting one portion of the HL theory with another portion, literally and continually ramming that round peg into the square hole. He then switches tactics on a later post with "One of my favorites of the HL [nonsense]..." by talking about the "two Oswalds in the Marines on the boat in Japan" portion of the story. Then later, Larsen - one of the few people who had disagreed with my GIF (Hargrove kinda/sorta agrees) - says: LARSEN: But Tracy [I think he meant Hargrove], the two men don't look alike. Side-by-side they look like two different men. [BAAWAAHAHAHAAA!!!] I agree that if you compare eyes alone, they look similar. (One person commented that the eyebrows are the same, and another said they look different, so I don't know about that. I forgot to compare eyebrows when I looked at Mike Walton's transposition of the two.) I agree that the mouths look the same. But overall they look different. I think the only time the two might be confused is when you've seen one, and then see the other at a later date or time. In other words, they sort of look the same. BTW, I found the following from looking at Mike's transposition: Eye, nose, and mouth spacing is very close. The ears on one (Lee, I think) are significantly higher. The chins are different. Lee has a pointed chin, and Harvey has a slight cleft chin that makes it more square at its tip. Though that might disappear if he gained weight. Elsewhere, though, and with nothing to do with HL, I posted another video showing a head flying backward like Kennedy's did at Z 313. He said something like "Mike, this video has merit" or something like that. So....do you see what I'm getting at here? Larsen and Hargrove have truly drunk the HL Koolaid here and no amount of reasoning can convince them otherwise.

Bernie - a nice post. The only thing Josephs has ever written that I find plausible is his article about how Oswald was not in MC but the official story wants him to be in MC to show he was the mad man who killed Kennedy. IMO, Josephs proved otherwise and we all know that the "Oswalds" in the photos taken down there were NOT LHO. Even Hoover admitted as much to LBJ. Otherwise, Josephs believes just about any conspiracy you put in front of him, then he'll proceed with writing about it in a "scholarly" way along with his crazy topsy-turvey arrows and graphics all over the place, as if THAT proves it further. Now here he is again trying to use the school records to show that two different people named Oswald were in NO and NYC at the same time. Greg Parker, I, and others already debunked that way up above. Of course Larsen will say PROVE IT again...but we already did. It's like another poster here said - one they drink the HL Koolaid, all reason and rational thought is completely thrown out the window.

Haha this is the funniest post of the week and I often wonder about that too. As for Lansdale (and Bush, Hoover, and Hunt for that matter) why on Earth would they risk being in Dealey by being exposed via film or photo? You would think the entire government was there that day perhaps down in Ruby's nightclub basement watching the action live on CC television ha.

For once I agree with Pam Brown. Baker is a fraud and it's a shame people wasted their money on her pathetic book.

Thanks Tracy what I find truly remarkable about Larsen's "because he's a lone nutter" statement is the fact that all along he's professed here to be a cold and calculating by the book evidence man who's supposedly still on the fence if there was a conspiracy. Yet and amazingly his so called fact finding is colored because he thought someone here rebutting this silly story was NOT a CT supporter! I sure wouldn't want someone like that on my investigation team LOL

Touche Tracy. This really goes to show how close minded Larsen. I'm not a lone nutter neither but of course THAT wouldn't mean a thing to "only the facts please" Larsen either.

I already debunked the schools thing but as Jeremy has said it's like religious fundamentalists - Jim is the gospel writer and Sandy is the accolyte. You can't argue reason with these people just like you can't argue with people who think a white blue eyed blonde haired hippy walked on water a thousand years ago LOL. Now maybe just maybe if you said that white guy carried around a pistol (Larsen said it was a black object but I digress) then the accolyte would finally come around. But don't pray on it LOL

Doug, rather than type up a whole new reply to your "Hunt said it was the alien presence" quote, I've pasted my reply to someone else on another thread that includes a comment about Hunt. Based on what you said here - when he shook your hand and said that - it sounds like Hunt was not only a real con man but a first-class asshole too. *** Mathis, fair enough that you're trying to learn more about the case but don't subscribe to the the clone fairy tale. Some things to keep in mind. Read Bill Simpich's State Secret. There, you will learn how the 5-9 height thing came about. It goes into great detail but keep in mind this was happening BEFORE Kennedy was even elected. What does that mean? It means that, yes, Oswald worked for the government, especially during his "defection," which was not a defection. Personally, I think it was some kind of mole hunt but the bottom line is Bill's story will explain it in detail. You will NOT get your answers about the 5-9 height with the Harvey and Lee nonsense. This is why it's terribly aggravating to me because it does nothing but muddle the real record of what happened on 11/22. Phillips was an ex-CIA agent. So was Howard Hunt. Both wrote novels. You are aware that novels are fiction? Yes, some actual events can be incorporated but it's not a straight-up factual book. Hunt said on his deathbed that Kennedy was going to reveal the alien presence. Phillips said what he did about Oswald in his NOVEL. Being ex-CIA, and with that agency's record for over 50 years regarding this case, do you really think they're going to reveal the truth on their deathbed and in a novel? You have to ask yourself that with a large heaping dose of skepticism. Of course many people don't, especially a certain member of this forum who brags he's a cold and calculating by-the-book only-the-facts-please evidence man. Yes, it is remarkable if Phillips said that in the newspaper. If he did actually say that, those few words he said reveals a lot, just like Oswald, while being whisked away, revealed a lot when he said, "I'm nothing but a patsy." If you believe there was only one Oswald, the one that grew up poor in TX, bounced around with his Mom, went into the Marines, left and "defected" to Russia, came back with Marina landing in TX, went to NO and back, and was arrested and murdered by Ruby, then does it really matter how well he spoke Russian? He had to have spoken the language when he "defected." How well is anyone's guess but he did know the language. From what I read, that language is hard to learn. Maybe he learned it enough to do what was expected of him when he went to Russia. That's fine. But to get into the nitty-gritty of how well or not he spoke the language, and then project it onto this outlandish and crazy story that Jim(John?) is subscribing to here - along with all of the other nonsense - and have someone who brags about being a cold and calculating evidence man continue to support it, is ridiculous.

Deslatte clearly says in the FBI report that he could not recognize Oswald when shown a photo of him days after the assassination. I mean think about it - the Oswald in DPD has had his photo plastered across the news worldwide. The truck incident happened over two years previously. Even if there had been a resemblance (according to the clone nonsense, this clone had to look almost exactly like the real Oswald), you'd think this would have jogged Deslatte's memory. Nope, not a one bit. As for Bannister being on the company papers, big deal. We all know that our man Oswald was associated with Bannister when he stupidly stamped Camp Street on his FPFCC cards (Bannister scolded him and told him not to do it any more). So how in the world has Jim(John) and accolyte Larsen projected this incident to a fairy tale clone of Oswald that goes all the way back to 1953? It's ridiculous. And I wish Jim(John) would stop saying that Jeremy is relying on Parker or Parker is relying on others for his answers and so on. Jim(John) - we're ALL doing that on both sides. Sigh...

You don't have to take those words from someone you know - all you have to do is look around on the internet and you'll find some truly despicable things that humans do to each other. For all of its wonderful traits, the internet has revealed how horrible the human race is as well. Ronald Reagan? Jimmy Carter? So I guess because of these humans, who were elected to high office by the people, that they have some special authority that proves that UFOs exist just because they say they saw something odd in the sky? Please. Like the JFK assassination, there's usually an innocent explanation to things. We've had satellites and the Hubble up there now for a number of years. The Hubble has revealed the vastness of space. But I'm still waiting for something strange for it to capture to prove life exists elsewhere in space. However, it's your right to believe whatever you wish, just like it's my right to wait to believe once I see it with my own eyes. There's a difference between believing and wanting to believe. And, after all, isn't that what Barnum really meant when he said "A sucker is born every minute?" That's why religion still exists even today, even after technology and science have proven many of the ridiculous myths that came about hundreds of years ago, and the powers-that-be back then used religion as a combination of fear and "you better believe or you're going into the fires of damnation" to keep people who didn't know any better under control.

Yes, I actually agree with you there. That's one of the more funnier things about this case. "Researchers" here think there was a gaggle of Bad Guys like Hunt and others running around in Dealey risking exposure in film or photos when it was the opposite. The so-called crime scene was set up on the 6th floor for LHO to take the fall and then it was just a shoot and they're gone elsewhere. They took full advantage of the innocence of the times with everyone smiling and waving. That's why you can't really trust the witness statements - it was boom boom boom and it was over, but thankfully Z recorded it all for posterity, totally contradicting the official record of what happened. Look around on the internet and you'll find some truly horrible things that humans do to each other. It's truly shocking at least for me it is. But it happens. Kennedy was hated by many. Humans have ways of letting hatred overcome all reason and compassion for others, so I hardly think the ones who were involved never gave it another thought about blowing his head off or feeling guilty about it afterwards. What they didn't realize is how his death truly changed the course of history for the worst, just Lincoln's assassination xxxxed up Reconstruction after the Civil War ended.

LOL - Likewise. Unbelievable how he'd dismiss the thrumming helicopter behind AF-1 theory and fall full face forward for this this one.

Ron way back 2010 you posted a photo that you said looked like the guy walking past the tramps but you can see his face. The link you posted for the photo is broke. Do you still have that photo?

The Earth is but a single grain of sand in the vast cosmos of space. Last I heard it was something like 500,000 billion light years in size. If anyone can wrap their head around that number, let me know because I sure cannot. Every speck of light you see in a Hubble photograph is a sun like ours with most probably planets orbiting it. As a matter of fact, one of Hubble's most famous photos was a vast array of galaxies, each containing millions of suns and their planets. So why does it always seem - when trying to make sense of the vast cosmos of space - like we're so very "blessed" and fortunate to have had these little green visitors come and visit us? Or another way of putting it is - why is it that when anyone claims they were abducted by a UFO or little green men were walking around next to their spaceship - why is it that the entire world never EVER sees these things? It only happens to a few humans with only their word to go by. And if human intelligence is any example from what we see on this forum, there are going to be plenty of people out there who who make outrageous claims like this either because they're in it for the money, attention, or they're just plain nuts. And there's always going to be suckers falling for this xxxx, just like they fall for every single film or photo of the Kennedy murder has been spliced or doctored in some way, or there was a clone of Oswalds running around 10 whole years before 1963, or think the moon landings were faked. So those are my thoughts on the so-called UFO stuff and all the other stuff like Kennedy was going to reveal it and that's why he died is just all head-slapping silliness. When a city-sized spaceship comes down and hovers over us in the sky, I'll then eat these words.

BUMPED - Mathis, fair enough that you're trying to learn more about the case but don't subscribe to the the clone fairy tale. Some things to keep in mind. Read Bill Simpich's State Secret. There, you will learn how the 5-9 height thing came about. It goes into great detail but keep in mind this was happening BEFORE Kennedy was even elected. What does that mean? It means that, yes, Oswald worked for the government, especially during his "defection," which was not a defection. Personally, I think it was some kind of mole hunt but the bottom line is Bill's story will explain it in detail. You will NOT get your answers about the 5-9 height with the Harvey and Lee nonsense. This is why it's terribly aggravating to me because it does nothing but muddle the real record of what happened on 11/22. Phillips was an ex-CIA agent. So was Howard Hunt. Both wrote novels. You are aware that novels are fiction? Yes, some actual events can be incorporated but it's not a straight-up factual book. Hunt said on his deathbed that Kennedy was going to reveal the alien presence. Phillips said what he did about Oswald in his NOVEL. Being ex-CIA, and with that agency's record for over 50 years regarding this case, do you really think they're going to reveal the truth on their deathbed and in a novel? You have to ask yourself that with a large heaping dose of skepticism. Of course many people don't, especially a certain member of this forum who brags he's a cold and calculating by-the-book only-the-facts-please evidence man. Yes, it is remarkable if Phillips said that in the newspaper. If he did actually say that, those few words he said reveals a lot, just like Oswald, while being whisked away, revealed a lot when he said, "I'm nothing but a patsy." If you believe there was only one Oswald, the one that grew up poor in TX, bounced around with his Mom, went into the Marines, left and "defected" to Russia, came back with Marina landing in TX, went to NO and back, and was arrested and murdered by Ruby, then does it really matter how well he spoke Russian? He had to have spoken the language when he "defected." How well is anyone's guess but he did know the language. From what I read, that language is hard to learn. Maybe he learned it enough to do what was expected of him when he went to Russia. That's fine. But to get into the nitty-gritty of how well or not he spoke the language, and then project it onto this outlandish and crazy story that Jim(John?) is subscribing to here - along with all of the other nonsense - and have someone who brags about being a cold and calculating evidence man continue to support it, is ridiculous.

OMG this is so, so funny. So the cold and calculating evidence man: Does not believe that Lifton's fairy tale of the body being whisked away from the back of Air Force One and onto a helicopter where mad scientists were at the ready with scalpels charged with cutting and cleaving up the body...that's a fairy tale to the cold and calculating evidence man. BUT - get this.... He DOES believe that out of millions and millions of people worldwide, and way back in 1953, a Hungarian refugee was found over in Europe and he looked exactly like the US-born Oswald, and the Hungarian's Mom also looked exactly like the US-born Oswald's Mom (except she never, ever smiled!), and they were brought together by the super-secret Bad Guys of the government, where one went to school in NYC and the other went to school in NO, both went into the Marine Corps and as if on cue, were brought together on 11/22/63 for the murder of Kennedy. He DOES believe that?! HAHAHAHA - what a xxxxing joke! Hey, Sandy - you were right all along. Remember your claim about that pistol that the old guy had on the knoll? By golly you were right! https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Hr9Lrku-CxRWNreVZQTUxRaGM/view

Mathis, fair enough that you're trying to learn more about the case but don't subscribe to the the clone fairy tale. Some things to keep in mind. Read Bill Simpich's State Secret. There, you will learn how the 5-9 height thing came about. It goes into great detail but keep in mind this was happening BEFORE Kennedy was even elected. What does that mean? It means that, yes, Oswald worked for the government, especially during his "defection," which was not a defection. Personally, I think it was some kind of mole hunt but the bottom line is Bill's story will explain it in detail. You will NOT get your answers about the 5-9 height with the Harvey and Lee nonsense. This is why it's terribly aggravating to me because it does nothing but muddle the real record of what happened on 11/22. Phillips was an ex-CIA agent. So was Howard Hunt. Both wrote novels. You are aware that novels are fiction? Yes, some actual events can be incorporated but it's not a straight-up factual book. Hunt said on his deathbed that Kennedy was going to reveal the alien presence. Phillips said what he did about Oswald in his NOVEL. Being ex-CIA, and with that agency's record for over 50 years regarding this case, do you really think they're going to reveal the truth on their deathbed and in a novel? You have to ask yourself that with a large heaping dose of skepticism. Of course many people don't, especially a certain member of this forum who brags he's a cold and calculating by-the-book only-the-facts-please evidence man. Yes, it is remarkable if Phillips said that in the newspaper. If he did actually say that, those few words he said reveals a lot, just like Oswald, while being whisked away, revealed a lot when he said, "I'm nothing but a patsy." If you believe there was only one Oswald, the one that grew up poor in TX, bounced around with his Mom, went into the Marines, left and "defected" to Russia, came back with Marina landing in TX, went to NO and back, and was arrested and murdered by Ruby, then does it really matter how well he spoke Russian? He had to have spoken the language when he "defected." How well is anyone's guess but he did know the language. From what I read, that language is hard to learn. Maybe he learned it enough to do what was expected of him when he went to Russia. That's fine. But to get into the nitty-gritty of how well or not he spoke the language, and then project it onto this outlandish and crazy story that Jim(John?) is subscribing to here - along with all of the other nonsense - and have someone who brags about being a cold and calculating evidence man continue to support it, is ridiculous.

Joe the most I'll say about them is they don't look like the average street people you see in DC or NYC nowadays. Maybe it's a sign of worst times even for tramps.

This is the most I'll do - made this in April 2016. It's an animated GIF that loops and the file size is a little large so let it load. It doesn't prove anything except it shows the guy people think is Lansdale is wearing glasses: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Hr9Lrku-Cxczd5THIwOEpiY2c/view?usp=sharing