Michael Walton

I found this HS photo of LHO - looks like he has front teeth to me. How do we know that he wasn't goofing around in class to the point where he might have put something on his front tooth to give it a dark hue? If you look at the surrounding classroom, everyone's attentive to what's going on except him. So he might have been hamming it up big time. But amazing to me too is the other morgue photo I've added below. When you look at the HS photo and the morgue one, there's no doubt it's the same person, from the large nose to the weak chin and the slightly flattened profile of the head. Both views even have that short wispy hair growing down onto the neck. Also I don't know if this was ever mentioned in this thread (it's 100+ pages now) but Greg Parker wrote a very interesting post about LHO having roundworm and how it shows that it could only have been the one-and-only LHO. https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1452-why-the-one-and-only-lee-oswald-looked-different-on-his-return-from-the-su

So this is the "evidence" that he had foreknowledge? In September, 1963, Dinkin noticed material in the Army newspaper, Stars and Stripes, and other print publications, that was negative toward the president and his policies and implied that hewas a weak president in dealing with the Russians. The examples that he found became morenegative, the suggestion being that if he were removed as president it would be a good thing. By mid-October Dinkin had found enough information—some of it subliminal—that he was convinced that a plot was in the works. One driven by some high ranking members of the military, some right-wing economic groups, and with support by some national media outlets. Sounds pretty dubious to me.

Exactly and good point.

Jim your reply just doesn't fly in the face any longer. You have to explain how the teeth match the soldier photo with the exhume photo. You can't keep referring back to the blurry class photo with his head at a high angle. You then have to explain with reasonable plausibility why there was no major press release of the secret exhumation or other media coverage. It's not like a secret agent could just stick his hand in the ground and grab the skull in the dead of night.

No problem and I understand, Sandy. That's where we obviously diverge - you and HL supporters believe that that's HARVEY's teeth, where I and I'm sure others who do not support the HL story believe that that's Lee Harvey Oswald's teeth. The same one that grew up poor, was moved around, went into the military, did a false defection, returned, was married to Marina, stirred up fake trouble in NO so he'd be branded a Communist, worked for one month in the TSBD, was arrested in the TX Theater, said "I'm just a patsy" in the hallway, was gunned down by Ruby on 11/24, was buried in the graveyard where Marina, his Mom and kids sat crying graveside, and whose body was exhumed in 1981.

Jim - I was getting worried. I thought you had sneakily moved on from here and started that new thread. Looks like you're back here LOL. Can you explain the teeth match Jim? They match up perfectly. Sandy tried, saying they're HARVEY's teeth. That's kind of - actually very weak - it's like saying the sky is green when we know it's blue

Good to hear you have a sense of humor, Sandy. So I take it - was HARVEY the one who had the unibrow unsmiling Mom, right? If so, maybe he was thinking of her that day when he had his USMC photo taken, smiling away. "Look Mom! Don't be sad! Here's a big old smiling Harv for you!" LOL

The whole story is a joke. It basically just rehashes all of the WC tripe. The funniest thing of all is, like Bill Davy at VMI said, why is the story of the HSCA conclusions NEVER mentioned in the mainstream media? Yes, the HSCA was full of its own BS but at least they came to the conclusion that JFK was "probably" murdered as a result of a conspiracy. Yet, you never EVER hear that being mentioned. The story line always - ALWAYS - goes back to the WC. The congressmen running the WC were no better or worst than the congressmen running the HSCA. So that should cancel out the "officialdom" of who was running the show.

No one in the HL group has proven anything, Sandy. All of you are too paranoid to see the truth of all of this and too stubborn to admit you're wrong. Take a look at this: It's obvious that based on the smiling one-and-only Oswald from his USMC photo compared to the teeth in the exhume photo that they match up fine. It's the same person. All of those little nuances of his teeth - the unevenness of them, the ridges in his enamel, and all the rest are all there. Stop with the paranoia and stubbornness and accept the fact that this whole HL story is nothing but a funny-as-in-strange work of fiction.

I was thinking of that too a while back. I mean take a look at this: Now some people are going to say they don't look the same while others do. But the similarities are there. But to think that by some million to one chance they found not only a near identical clone thousands of miles away in Hungary to match up with the Texas kid - and even their Moms too (except one was unsmiling and had a unibrow) - is really funny as in funny strange.

David, what you don't seem to understand is the funeral business is a racket. It's like the car business. When my Mom died, I did not want to get her embalmed because -- why? She was going to rot away anyway and embalming was like an extra $1,000 bucks that I wasn't going to give them. When I said no, the guy got a little - "Oh, now, I'm sure you want to keep your Mother's dignity..." and some other nonsense. I said no. Guess what? On the day of her funeral, he came up and said, "Out of courtesy to your dearly departed Mother, we went ahead with the embalming at no charge." They prey on the bereaved and once the crying and flower laying are over, it's pretty much a done deal. The cheap coffin is lowered, the vault cover is laid and who in the xxxx knows what happens down there? Think about it - this happens thousands and thousands of times all over the world and unless you're paranoid JE Hoover, who had a lead lined coffin that the bearers almost threw their balls out carrying it around, most of this stuff is cheaply made. And with the lot of weight laying on the cover, why would it be so surprising that this stuff breaks down? Didn't a handle break off on Kennedy's coffin at the airport? The point is - it's very disingenuous and paranoid of you to think that just because the vault was broken that you say - YEP! They snuck down and swapped bodies or took the head in the middle of the night and drilled a mastoid hole in it. I mean are you really THAT paranoid and suspicious of EVERYTHING?! Wow! You're turning these simple stories of mistaken identity and broken vaults into crazy stories that even the best fictional authors would not even dream up.

The real clincher for me is this: "But there was an extra part of this story that hadn't been revealed, at least I'd never heard of it until I found this document, and that is when they took him into custody, Oswald would only speak in Russian. When the NOPD had him, they assumed he was a Russian. They called INS. Of course, they would have responsibility for foreign aliens and so forth. One of Roache's associates, this guy, David Smith, went to the police station, and he recognized Oswald as being part of the Banister-Ferrie group and said, "Look, this guy's an American." Once Oswald had been outed, he stopped with the Russian. It was then at that point he asked to see an FBI agent, but it was not until the INS guy had come in and said, "We recognize him from our surveillance of David Ferrie and Guy Banister." When the Church Committee investigators finally tracked down Roache and they finally got a hold of him, this is what he said: "I've been waiting 12 years for you guys. I've been waiting for 12 years to talk someone about this." The above may seem trivial but at least to me it's really not. It's very big actually because it shows that someone was leading LHO along, telling him to play his public game of being a Communist or whatever, stirring up trouble, to speak in Russian, causing attention to himself and obviously to be used months later in Dallas. Even the best fictional crime author could not have made something like this up. What I've wondered about is this - if this was happening back in August, was the murder greenlit even then? Or was LHO being manipulated with no real plans for him to be used some way at a later date? The obvious answer is "probably yes" but I find it fascinating when you ask that question - just when was it greenlit?

David do you see anything fake on those documents? Perhaps where it says LEE it really said HARVEY but they faked it? Perhaps because we know HARVEY was the nice one with the unsmiling Mom?

I can't see the radical right doing it. They would have had to have been clued in to the intel of MC and they weren't.

I simply cannot see any of the generals having anything to do with it. According to SS it was all happening way in the background. For all of their so called military planning skills they couldn't have done anything like this.

Oh no, Mike Clark is back on here. This is the guy who came up with a theory on EF a while back. His theory went something like this: A telecom company took over the building that used to house Ruby's nightclub. During renovations on it and because there was something like a lot of copper wiring in it, his theory was - of course! Deep in the bowels of Ruby's nightclub building was assassination central. They had a bevy of secret agents monitoring live TV cameras stationed throughout the city being displayed on TVs and were controlling all events, including the shooting. Down in that smoke-filled assassination central room were Dulles, Bush, Nixon, Hunt and others gleefully rubbing their hands together as the killing took place. He based this theory on the large amount of copper wiring found in the building. This is all you need to know about Mike Clark's way of thinking. This is his only attempt on EF to ever come up with a theory and it was a doozy. Otherwise, because he believes everything was faked in the JFK case, he'll swoop down from time to time, saying his usual bits of "Great goings" to fellow everything is faked believers, while admonishing those who know better. ------ As Sandy said above, the secret agents faked A LOT of stuff. Emphasis on A LOT. To the HL supporters they think EVERYTHING was faked. It was not. Further, there has to be plausibility, a ring of truth if you will. I was just watching a crime show about a murder. The investigators, even the family of the victim, said numerous times throughout the course of the show that the accused was saying and doing things that "didn't make sense" as he tried to explain his alibi. This is what I mean. Sandy will probably say "just because Simpich says so doesn't make it so" but in addition to that there has to be a running narrative of does it have the ring of truth. But Bill Simpich's outstanding SS story has a heck of a lot more ring of truth to it than the HL story. The very fact that HL supporters would actually think that the secret agents would perform a mastoid operation on their clone years before Dallas, then change this scenario to it was done to a skull in a coffin to fit a round peg in a square hole would cause laughter by any seasoned crime investigator.

Some initial comments (re: PDF): The Queen Mary is the back up car, not the limo and Greer never drove the Queen Mary. This guy seems to have a reminder bell in his brain as it seems like he's constantly making sure that the whole world knows that all shots came from the rear. Even when the interviewer thanks him at the end, he's like: ".....there's no question the shots came from the rear..." Funnily, he mentions the back wound and how the throat shot is its exit. He supposedly was at the autopsy but unironically never mentions that the back wound is nowhere near the throat and had no exit point. He simply states there's "no question" it came from the rear. Ford's reply letter includes "helpful" mentions including POSner's book. This, from the guy who scribbled "of neck" in the WR next to back to strengthen the preposterous SBT. Below is an image about the back wound - for comparison only.

Yes, agreed. And this is also the same person who said, when I offered a completely different take of why this couldn't have happened based on the outstanding write up by Bill Simpich called State Secret, he said: "Just because Bill Simpich said something doesn't make it so." I mean, isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black? You'd think someone interested in the truth and with no agenda would at least consider that alternative SS story. Nope. Not a one bit. Even a well-documented story like SS is , to him, easily dismissed and a "barium meal" to use his phrase. Yet, with HL it's "oh he had the mastoid surgery to match the body in the coffin." Then it's "oh well it happened when he was dead and was done post-mortem." The silliness just never ends.

Here's what we're actually talking about here. It's a pretty fascinating medical procedure. But what's equally fascinating is how can anyone think that this was done on the one and only Oswald because he legitimately needed the surgery, and then, for no legitimate or medical reason, also be done on Oswald's "clone" just so it matches up years later so that the clone and Oswald have matching skulls from matching surgeries? Watch the video and then ask yourself - would the secret agents have the ability - the foresight if you will - to somehow know that their clone would need this type of surgery then actually perform it on their clone just so the clone has matching scars and post-surgery wounds like Oswald? It's truly mind boggling to think anyone would think that but according to the HL supporters, they actually do believe it happened this way.

Tracy - see, once again this is a perfect example of cherry picking things to fit their round peg into the square hole. Think about it - to them, everything has been faked. But in THIS case, we have a WC lawyer - you know those folks that faked everything according to the dumb asses' way of thinking - and his taking the statement of this Ely is oh, it's spot on! So everything else has been faked by the WC and its lawyers EXCEPT this statement. What a joke.

I think this whole thread should just be closed. I think it's a complete waste of time and is, quite frankly, embarrassing to this "education" forum. People are going to believe what they want and the biggest problem is there are too many people here who think their version of the evidence is correct but what they have absolutely no capability of doing is looking at themselves in the mirror and realizing that their evidence is very tainted because of pre-conceived notions. For example, some think their beliefs are the correct beliefs but what they they don't realize is if you go into something thinking that every single goddamned thing was altered, changed, misinterpreted and lied about, then how in the hell can you trust this person to make a sane, reasoned analysis based on the evidence? You can't. It's as simple as that. I can't speak for Jim Hargrove. For all we know, he may be posing as Hargrove but really be a relative of Armstrong or even Armstrong himself. But I think this thread has revealed a lot about a lot of so-called researchers. For example, David Josephs. I mean he wrote a great, well-researched story about how LHO was probably never in MC, that it was all just bullxxxx as part of the legend the planners of the murder wanted to create for LHO once he was arrested for Kennedy's murder. But then, after discussing other things with him here, I've lost a huge amount of respect for him because he revealed himself to be a "everything was faked" kind of people, when no such thing EVER took place in this case. And he's now reverted to belittling people who have made reasoned, well thought out rebuttals of this HL story. So I think this whole thread should just be archived and closed for good. Otherwise, it's just going to go on and on and on while people who come here are just going to be doing a lot of eye-rolling, which I'm sure has already happened.

So when Ruby was asked, coming out of the court house years later, who was involved, he said something like if Adlai Stevenson had been VP, we'd have never had the assassination? And I guess we're expected to believe that he just made that up out of thin air? It was an interesting statement he made and could be sheer hyperbole but if he was a total babe in the woods, I'd hardly think he would have just made that statement up.

Paul I almost want to believe you. Somewhere along the way LHO was not supposed to live until Sunday. Something went wrong and they got Ruby to do the deed. So I'm having a hard time grasping Ruby not knowing *anything* about what was going to happen and was just plucked from nothing to kill LHO.

Well done and thanks for sharing the link Tracy to the funny video made by Jeremy and Stan Dane. There's a comment on that page that seems sadly true and is a very good question: "Very well done Stan.I too have wondered from time to time whether the Harvey & Lee theory is a disinformation plot to deliberately divide the community and make researchers look like nutcases." It's a very good question that this person has asked. I, too, wonder about this because it's just amazing how many wildly out-there theories people have come up with regarding the Kennedy case. A case in point - the one directly above this post. Tom Hume once again, with absolutely no foresight or plausibility to his scheme, is posting yet another anagram of letters that he "sees" as some secret code that will reveal it all about what happened in Dallas.

There's this too: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/us/politics/nixon-tried-to-spoil-johnsons-vietnam-peace-talks-in-68-notes-show.html From the MSM no less which is pretty shocking. Once Bobby Kennedy was out of the way, it's hard to say if Humphrey would have done the right thing, though I'm guessing probably not as the war machine was in full swing then. But even more shocking is RN trying to sabotage a peace effort purely for political gain.