Joe Bauer

And his taxes? The TV show "American Greed" could do a half dozen episodes on Trump and his family's corrupt practices and doings and still not cover them all.

McAdams put a lot of time, energy and expense ( travel, publishing and time and effort have a quantitative dollar value ) engaging with the JFK Assassination research community ( the huge majority conspiracy believers ) in an adversarial way. I never really got his point for expending all that time, effort and expense into such a futile and antagonizing agenda. He knew he wasn't going to change any conspiracy believer's minds. That he wasn't going to educate them regards their loony reality. So, if that proposition is true, what was his agenda? Keeping history accurate and untainted? Notoriety? A sadistic pleasure at riling up JFK conspiracy believers? Did he make some good side money doing this? A book deal perhaps with a nice advance? There always seems to be "professional debunkers" of seriously controversial and potentially ominous historical events and the conspiracies they spawn that somehow get regular national TV, radio and sometimes news print and internet coverage exposure. They are so similar in their MOs. Phillip Klass, Michael Shermer, John McAdams, Gerald Posner and several others. I always consider the reality that I mentioned...that none of them do this because they actually think they are going to change anyone's minds. They also know their efforts aren't going to seriously protect or even bolster historical accuracy of these events as conveyed in the official government sanctioned educational realm. I guess some of these long term debunkers make some money putting in years of effort into their self conceived noble minded efforts at exposing the fraud of conspiracy believers. Book deals? Hard to believe anyone would actually buy their books however. People who believe conspiracy believers are nuts, aren't going to pay money to read what they already believe. I always wondered if these national media coverage debunkers get funding for their efforts from ...well ... you know who.

Perhaps true TP ... to a point. But this isn't John McAdam's obituary memorial site. It's a forum of high passion and at times hotly debated JFK assassination issues and opinions. With many true believers on the conspiracy side. And McAdams aggressively charged the issues ( and these true believers ) with unbridled energy and at times antagonistic incitement. Nobody on here is going to go outside of the forum to criticize JM at his time of passing. I think everyone here, even those who have railed against McAdams doesn't also keep in mind the man has passed into the realm of higher spiritual existence or non-existence where judgement is probably beyond our Earthly comprehension. Just my perspective.

Trump has always been enthusiastically willing to take money from anyone, no matter how corrupt. Gotta deal with organized crime to get his hotels and casino's built? Hey, no problem. Trump actually said on a Dave Letterman TV show appearance "let me tell you...some of those people ( organized crime) happen to be very nice people." !!! If journalist butchering Saudis are willing to help him and Jared out financially ( remember the Saudi threat of blockading Quatar which resulted in a Quatar funded Canadian company's 666 5th Avenue billion dollar boondoggle bailout) then Trump says (regarding the suspected Saudi prince) he told me he didn't do it, that's good enough for me. Nice guy. Drug cartels and Russian organized crime figures buying up his condos and Florida junk house property and paying 200% of their true market value ( $100 million for the Florida junker ) and then re-selling these often at a loss. Money laundering do you think? Hey, no problem. Pardoning illegal foreign money deal perps Manafort and Michael Flynn and charity robbing Sloppy Steve Bannon? Hey, no problem? Getting hundreds of millions in loans from the most money laundering corrupt bank in history " Deutsche Bank " despite horrible bankruptcy debt and credit payment record... hey, no problem. This guy would make a deal with the devil if it made him enough money. The guy is first and foremost ... a money obsessed crook! A totally amoral, Roy Cohn inspired/ Hitler speech and "Power Of Positive Thinking" book educated crook. Smarter than Bernie Madoff though.

Yes, agree. It seemed almost everyone in Dealey Plaza and employees of the TXSBD were so emotionally upset at what happened with the shooting and fearing the worst regards JFK himself that they were sick with worry and grief. Plus having armed police running to and fro must have just added to the fear, anxiety and angst. All in all a real appetite killer imo. It would be hard to imagine any of the eye witnesses in Dealey Plaza going off for a lunch break just minutes after the worst in a lifetime traumatic scene they were just thrust into seconds and minutes earlier. Sick to their stomach worrying that the President of the United States, who was just shot feet from them, may be seriously wounded or even dead! I'm thinking not just those in the lower incline Plaza area who actually saw JFK's head explode but everyone else farther back who were hearing that JFK had just been shot. If I saw a non-police looking man throwing a rifle into a car trunk 20 feet in front of me in that frantic scene and was so shook up at not just seeing this but then having such a sinister looking man glare at me with a look so threatening and scary I felt compelled to say to the man..."I didn't see anything", getting a bite to eat just minutes later doesn't seem likely to me. Heck, myself and everyone else in my junior high school in California ( teachers crying ) were just sick with shock and sadness when we were told the news. We were all sent to our home rooms, told the news and within one hour sent home. All before our lunch time. No lunch that day for anyone. I remember walking the one and 1/2 miles to my home and feeling the shock and horror energy as I walked through our downtown area. Hardly any moving cars. Several parked with people listening to their radios. People standing on the sidewalks and in open doorways talking to each other somberly. When I got home my mom was glued to the TV and didn't say anything to me upon my arrival. I also immediately went upstairs to turn on the junky old TV my brother and I got in our bedroom after our cheap step dad finally broke down and bought a new color TV for the living room. I stayed glued to it for days, up until I watched Jack Ruby whack Oswald in the Dallas Police station building live on Sunday morning. The point is, I don't think I even thought about eating my bag lunch that day. And I was 1500 miles from Dealey Plaza! Ah, but the intrepid JFK high alert security minded and whacko list informed "Assignment Oswald", Inspector Jacques Clouseau look-a-like FBI agent James P. Hosty was having lunch in a downtown Dallas diner during the motorcade and shooting. Let's have lunch my friend! But inspector...do you not think it may be wise to wait until the dangerous motorcade is over and the President is safely arrived to the Trade Mart? Ah, no need to worry my friend...zee appetite cannot wait ... you know? That old Alfred E. Newman saying comes to mind as well regarding "Assignment Oswald" Hosty's ill timed lunch break...."What - Me Worry?"

After seeing Ruth Paine's actual testimony regards her discovering the letter draft Lee Oswald had typed on her typewriter and left next to it after going to bed the evening he wrote it and what RP did with the draft upon discovering it and reading it Sunday morning, I felt it is importantly revealing in posting her actual testimony here with my previous post. I needed to correct my original comments regarding the incident.

Oh yes. Thank you.

Is this debate one we can be linked to? If so, can you provide this?

DZ. Please excuse my naivety. What is the title of Sylvia Meagher's book? Which couple are you referring to?

When someone you dislike passes away, my learned general response is to wait awhile before letting it ( criticism ) all hang out. If even just a few days. There are exceptions of course. Those who we know or suspect have demeaned or purposely caused pain ( emotional and physical ) injury and even death to others no matter the numbers. Where does McAdams rate on that scale? In my mind and heart, the man did shamelessly demean others as a matter of habit. He seriously harmed Ms. Abbate. But more than anything imo, he demeaned the truth, justice and memory importance of the JFK assassination and therefore JFK himself. And all Americans who cared to give JFK's murder, memory and justice more thought, contemplation and study than just mindlessly accepting the LBJ appointed and FBI / Hoover controlled Warren Commission finding that Lee Harvey Oswald ( a lifetime frustrated minimum wage earning loser ) simply had an incredibly lucky "open window" shot at making a name for himself...took it... and who then sauntered out into the frantic crowd and cop filled streets to take a public bus and cab ride home right after. Hand cuffed, two guards at his side Lee Harvey Oswald's own equally improbable assassination 2 days later by a local strip club owner "right inside the DPD building" just added more instant closure to the case when it should have done the opposite. Nothing to see here folks! No need to think about this crazy, illogical and nonsensical turn of events right before your eyes in just two days. As the official PR person for the WC ( Gerald "Ferry never knew Oswald " Posner ) said..."Case Closed." I think McAdam's public legacy was one of more harm than good in this sense. Ergo this instant criticism is to be expected and in some ways is deserved.

That answer by Ruth P. ( when asked if she had ever met or been in contact with anyone in the CIA ) "not that I am aware of" piques one's curiosity in the same vein as Oswald's "I am just a patsy" one. To what degree of importance is debatable of course. At first thought it seems a suspiciously ambiguous answer. Especially knowing about her sister's employment background. And who knows about her father, mother, husband Michael and his father? Her answer could be innocently perceived. I could see myself saying something like her answer if I had been asked if I have ever met someone connected to the Mafia or the KKK. In 69 years, heck, I could have. However, if she had simply stated "no" it would've felt more straight forward honest. Ruth P was ( is ) a very intelligent and quite articulate person. And in almost every interview or public forum talk video I have seen of her, I notice she very often pauses before answering probing questions directly presented to her. She thinks before she speaks. She is very cautious in this way. However, one would think even she would know an answer like "not that I am aware of" would kindle a little suspicion in regards to such an important question. Definitely one suspicion point against her there. "Not that I am aware of." How many times have we heard that guilty sounding escape clause answer in criminal hearings over the decades? Like everything else related to so many JKF event characters we have conflicting stories and testimonies that make so many of them seem enigmatic. Was Ruth Paine enigmatic enough to suspect? In some ways yes. Her family's background. Her husband Michael's family too. Her actions regards Lee Oswald's draft letter. Regardless, one must admit that Ruth Paine gave Marina and her baby help way beyond any other efforts by anyone who came across them and their desperately poor situation. It truly was "Quaker" like in it's extreme generosity. Opening up her entire home like that. Paying for basic need items like groceries and diapers. Not asking for a penny from either Marina or Lee. Taking Marina to doctors, etc. Before Ruth Paine, Marina was neglected in her personal health needs as well as her and baby June's living conditions. Bad teeth. Marina was in pain with rotting and infected teeth. Remember her missing tooth in the famous "Marina, what do you do all day?" post assassination nationally broadcast TV interview? Marina hadn't seen one doctor her entire pregnancy until Ruth got her back to Irving. Living in a cockroach infested apartment. Baby June was sleeping in a suitcase until George and Jeanne De Morhenschildts bought her a crib. At one point, Marina was so depressed in her living situation before Ruth Paine, she made a half-hearted attempt at suicide. Which Lee chastised her for ( she had baby Junie to consider ) and maybe even slapped her for? Whatever Ruth Paine may have been as far as political intrigue, one has to give her some humanitarian credit for taking Marina and Junie in when they so desperately needed a safe, secure, clean and basic needs providing living environment. I have some suspicions about RP. Like most everyone I assume. Her sister and her relationship with her being one. The draft letter for another. Her and Michael Paine's "we both know who's responsible" phone call conversation immediately following the JFK assassination. Not knowing of or how Oswald's rifle was in their small garage? Minox cameras, files on leftists and Cubans etc.. I have more suspicion regards Michael Paine though.

Interesting tidbits shared by Ruth Paine in the second link video of her speaking to a group on 9/13/2013. Again, remarkably detailed about interactions with Lee and Marina "50 years" previous. Yet, when asked previously ( the Gerry Spence questioning and other times ) she could not remember even the most basic details regards her visit with her sister ( where her sister lived, what she did for a living, whether they discussed Lee and Marina which I feel she did ) just months previous to her very detailed shared story of going to get Marina and her baby June in NO in October 1963? Ruth did describe in detail staying two nights at the New Orleans apartment Lee and Marina were living in when she came for Marina in October, 1963. She mentioned that Lee and Marina bickered a lot. She mentioned that she and her own very young two kids had to sleep on the floor. And how cockroaches were crawling about and she had to spray roach killer in a wide circle around where she and her children were sleeping on the floor. Ruth said she was appalled at late pregnancy Marina's neglectful situation in NO. She mentioned Marina didn't qualify for local government medical care assistance because she and Lee hadn't lived in NO Parish long enough to qualify. She also mentioned Lee was packed up and ready to go ( someplace ) to go on another "job hunting" excursion? But she didn't know where? Lee was leaving the apartment immediately after Ruth and Marina left to go back to Ruth's home in Irving? I'm sure many know where Oswald went after they left? Did he come to Dallas on the bus right after? Also, in this talking event video, when asked again about the draft of a letter Lee had typed up on her typewriter and left next to it for Ruth to easily see, find and read ( while Lee was staying at Ruth's one weekend after he came to Dallas and was visiting Marina and baby Junie there ) Ruth mentioned again her outrage that Lee would have the "GALL" to use her typewriter without asking her permission. ( fact check correction after reading Ruth actual testimony.) *See insertion below. Ruth Paine has mentioned this specific incident many times over the years with noticeably animated emotional upsetness. It really got to her and just added to her personal dislike of Lee Oswald. And Ruth expressed she was as perplexed as anyone as to why super secretive and private Lee would leave the actual draft next to her typewriter and do such a private personal matter exposing and self risky thing. Ruth didn't keep the very personal private matter letter draft private. No, instead she made a copy of the draft and handed this copy over to agent Hosty. RP did slip the original draft letter back to it's place next to the typewriter. One must assume Oswald saw this and retrieved the letter later. However, Ruth must have known how damaging that letter draft would be for Lee once the FBI got hold of it. Why give it to the FBI? Ruth mentioned how upset she was that Lee had lied in the letter. With Lee stating the FBI no longer had any interest in his and Marina's personal affairs. Ruth stated she knew this was not true. Guess that was justification for her handing the draft to the FBI. " Sunday morning I was the first one up. I took a closer look at this, a folded sheet of paper. . . . The first sentence arrested me because I knew it to be false. . . . I then proceeded to read the whole note, wondering, knowing this to be false, wondering why he was saying it. I was irritated to have him writing a falsehood on my typewriter, I may say, too. I felt I had some cause to look at it." Mrs. Paine proceeded to read Oswald's private paper, a draft of a letter dealing in part with the visits of FBI Agent Hosty, in which Oswald said that Hosty had tried to coerce him to refrain from pro-Castro activities and to press Marina to "defect" and place herself under FBI protection. According to Mrs. Paine, that was a completely false version of Hosty's visits. She was offended on her own behalf. She read the letter in the quiet of her living room on Sunday morning and decided that she Mrs. Paine: . . . should have a copy to give to an FBI agent coming again, or to call. I was undecided what to do. Meantime I made a copy. . . . Jenner: But you did have the instinct to report this to the FBI? Mrs. Paine: Yes . . . and after having made it, while the shower was running, I am not used to subterfuge in any way, but then I put it back where it had been and it lay the rest of Sunday on my desk top. . . .

If I saw someone staring at me in a public place with a face like that...I'd run!

For those who defend Ruth Paine, even they must admit that in the area of her answers to questions relating to her sister, she is clearly evasive. Feigning ignorance about even the most basic questions. Ruth was very sharp in all her testimonies. Recalling every incident ( major and minor ) involving Marina and Lee with extraordinary detail. She even recalls emotional reactions of Marina and Lee and herself during these scenes. Ruth remembered details of the apartment Lee and Marina lived in when she arrived to bring Marina back to her home in Irving. She stayed two nights there, correct? However, when it came to her sister and her visit to her home the Summer of 1963 Ruth seems to draw a blank? Can't remember times, locations, conversations, activities, etc. ?

Vince, you mention in your video that Gerald Blaine should prepare himself better with information facts before presenting false claims as he did on national television speaking to interviewer Brian Lamb via the "Q & A" C-Span program. One that stuck out so starkly it was embarrassing to see and hear was Blaine's condescending rebuke of you Vince for your self-proclaimed expertise. And Blaine went off about how many like you had created myths about the shooting of JFK and how the limo slowed down or even stopped just before and during the head shot. Blaine cockily claimed the limo did not slow down and never went slower that 11 mph. Vince, and other members...take a look at the Zapruder film video via my link. It's only 30 seconds long. Watch the speed of JFK's limo right up to just before JFK is shot in the head. Look at how fast the limo is going by watching the grass area beyond it as it is coming down Elm...then see how this background movement slows to a crawl if not a stop just before the head shot. You call this "not a slow down?" The limo was certainly not moving at 11 mph or more a second before, during and just after the head shot. I have seen versions of the Zapruder film that show Greer and Kellerman much more clearly in the limo during the shooting sequence. In one of these Greer turns "180 degrees" around right as Kennedy slumps down next to Jackie's face and a split second before the head shot. Greer does this full turn to look directly at JFK at the exact same time the limo almost comes to a stop. The correlation between Greer turning completely around and the limo slowing greatly at the exact same time makes all the sense in the world...because what driver doesn't lift his foot off the accelerator ( or even taps the brakes ) when he or she performs a full 180 turn and is looking behind the car they are driving instead of in front of it? Greer was "still" looking straight back at JFK when JFK's head exploded. You can even see Greer wince and duck slightly when he sees the gruesome bloody spray hit on JFK. At that point, Greer finally turns back to look straight ahead and floor the accelerator. But during his 180 degree turn around the limo slows so greatly to some it seemed to stop. Jackie testified how shocked and sickened she was that the driver of the limo slowed the car ( she says stopped ) right before the head shot. Watch the regular speed Zapruder film from my link below. Especially between the 17 second thru 20 second mark. You will see the background grass movement slow almost to a stop. Also, you can see driver Bill Greer's head turned just about 180 degrees backward and looking at JFK when the bloody spray head shot occurs. A split second "later" Greer turns back around to the front and floors it. After viewing this "real time" Zapruder film video, judge for yourself whether you think Gerald Blaine was more accurate dismissing the limo slowing as a myth, perpetrated by people like VP...or Blaine looking and sounding like a fraud. The man was in Austin Texas during the JFK event. Zapruder Film Original - JFK Assassination - YouTube https://www.youtube.com › watch 0:30 Dallas, Texas November 22, 1963. Filmed by Abraham Zapruder.

Mr. NORMAN. Yes.Mr. BALL. With which arm?Mr. NORMAN. I believe it was his right arm, and I can't remember what the exact time was but I know I heard a shot, and then after I heard the shot, well, it seems as though the President, you know, slumped or something, and then another shot and I believe Jarman or someone told me, he said, "I believe someone is shooting at the President," and I think I made a statement "It is someone shooting at the President, and I believe it came from up above us."Well, I couldn't see at all during the time but I know I heard a third shot fired, and I could also hear something sounded like the shell hulls hitting the floor and the ejecting of the rifle, it sounded as though it was to me.Mr. BALL. How many shots did you hear?Mr. NORMAN. Three.Mr. BALL. Do you remember whether or not you said anything to the men then as to whether or not you heard anything from above you?Mr. NORMAN. Only I think I remember saying that I thought I could hear the shell hulls and the ejection of the rifle. I didn't tell I think I hear anybody moving, you know.Mr. BALL. But you thought, do you remember you told the men then that you thought you heard the ejection of the rifle?Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir.Mr. BALL. And shells on the floor?Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir.Mr. BALL. Falling?Mr. NORMAN. Yes.Mr. BALL. Did anybody say anything as to where they thought the shots came from?Mr. NORMAN. Well, I don't recall of either one of them saying they thought where it came from.Mr. BALL. But You did? Mr. NORMAN. Yes.Mr. BALL. And you said you thought it came from where?Mr. NORMAN. Above where we were, above us. Mr. BALL. Did you see any dust or dirt falling?Mr. NORMAN. I didn't see any falling but I saw some in Bonnie Ray Williams hair.Mr. BALL. Did anybody say anything about it?Mr. NORMAN. I believe Jarman told him that it was in his hair first. Then I, you know, told him it was and I believe Jarman told him not to brush it out his hair but I think he did anyway. Mr. BALL. After that happened, what did you do?Mr. NORMAN. Well, we ran to the farthest window facing the expressway.Mr. BALL. The farthest window, is that right?Mr. NORMAN. Yes.Mr. BALL. I have here a diagram of this fifth floor.Mr. McCLOY. May I interrupt there.Mr. BALL. Go right ahead.Mr. McCLOY. You spoke about seeing the President sort of slump over after the first shot?Mr. NORMAN. Yes; I believe the first.Mr. McCLOY. Did you see the President hit on any subsequent shots?Mr. NORMAN. No; I don't recall seeing that.Mr. BALL. Here is a diagram of the sixth floor.Mr. NORMAN. The sixth floor?Mr. BALL. Of the fifth floor rather, which is Commission's 487, and this is the southeast corner window. To what window did you and your two friends run?Mr. NORMAN. This is the south. This is the window we were in. We came to this last, I believe it is the next to the last or the last window on this end here, right here.Mr. BALL. Why did you run down to that window?Mr. NORMAN. Well, it seems as though everyone else was running towards the railroad tracks, and we ran over there. Curious to see why everybody was running that way for. I thought maybe--Mr. BALL. Did anybody say anything about going up to the sixth floor?Mr. NORMAN. I don't remember anyone saying about going up to the sixth floor.Mr. NORMAN. Yes.Mr. BALL. Do you show in the picture--Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir.Mr. BALL. Is that the window you looked out of?Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir; I believe that is the one.Mr. BALL. And how long did you stay at that window?Mr. NORMAN. I don't remember, but it wasn't very long.Mr. BALL. Then where did youMr. NORMAN. We ran down to the first floor.Mr. BALL. When you were brought to the first floor or when you came to the first floor how did you go down there?Mr. NORMAN. We came down the stairway. I remember we came down the stairway.Mr. BALL. When you got to the first floor did someone talk to you, police officers?Mr. NORMAN. I don't remember a police officer talking to me as soon as we got down there. I don't.Mr. BALL. Did anyone talk to you later?Mr. NORMAN. Yes.Mr. BALL. Who?Mr. NORMAN. I guess they were Secret Service men. But I know they talked to us.Mr. BALL. Did they take you over to the police station later? Mr. NORMAN. No; they didn't carry me to the police station. Mr. BALL. When did you leave the place?Mr. NORMAN. Oh, I would say somewhere around 2 o'clock, somewhere in the vicinity of that.Mr. BALL. Who did you leave with?Mr. NORMAN. Mr. James Jarman. I can't remember who.Mr. BALL. From the time that you went down on the first floor until you left the building to go home did you leave the building at all?Mr. NORMAN. No; I didn't.Mr. BALL. Where did you stay?Mr. NORMAN. They kept us on the first floor. Mr. BALL. You did make a statement later to the Secret Service, didn't you?Mr. NORMAN. Yes.Mr. BALL. I have here a document 493, which is a copy of a statement made by this witness, which I now mark 493.(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 493, for identification.)Mr. BALL. The document that I have here shows the date 4th of December 1963. Do you remember having made a statement to Mr. Carter, Special Agent of the Secret Service, on that day?Mr. NORMAN. I can't remember the exact date but I believe I remember Mr. Carter.Mr. BALL. I want to call your attention to one part of the statement and I will ask you if you told him that:"Just after the President passed by, I heard a shot and several seconds later I heard two more shots. I knew that the shots had come from directly above me, ... and I could hear the expended cartridges fall to the floor. I could also hear the bolt action of the rifle. I also saw some dust fall from the ceiling of the fifth floor and I felt sure that whoever had fired the shots was directly above me." Did you make that statement to the Secret Service man? Mr. NORMAN. I don't remember making a statement that I knew the shots came from directly above us. I didn't make that statement. And I don't remember saying I heard several seconds later. I merely told him that I heard three shots because I didn't have any idea what time it was. Mr. BALL. I see. Did you tell them that you heard the bolt action of the rifle?Mr. NORMAN. Yes.Mr. BALL. And that you heard the expended cartridges fall to the floor?Mr. NORMAN. Yes; I heard them making a sound.Mr. McCLOY. Do you have any rough recollection of the amount of time that passed between the time you heard the first shot and when you ran down to the west end of the building and looked out the window there and the time when you left the fifth floor and finally came down to the first floor where the police officers were? Can you give me a general estimate of about how much time that took?Mr. NORMAN. To come down from the fifth floor?Mr. McCLOY. Yes. From the time you first heard the shot and saw what was going on in the motorcade and then ran down toward the western end of the building and then as I understand your testimony, you left there and went down to the did you go down to the fourth floor first or did you go all the way down?Mr. NORMAN. I believe we went all the way.Mr. McCLOY. Until you got down to the first floor, how much would you say was the entire length of that time, from the first shot until you got down on the first floor? Mr. NORMAN. Oh, I would say somewhere between 10 or 15 minutes, somewhere like that. ( my thoughts: 15 MINUTES?) Mr. McCLOY. I don't think I have any other question.Mr. BALL. I have one question.On the 26th of November, an FBI agent named Kreutzer advises us in a report that he talked to you. Do you remember that?Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir.Mr. BALL. You remember?Mr. NORMAN. Yes; I remember talking to him. I don't know his name. Mr. BALL. He reports that you told him that you heard a shot and that you stuck your head from the window and looked upward toward the roof but could see nothing because small particles of dirt were falling from above you. Did you tell him that?Mr. NORMAN. I don't recall telling him that.Mr. BALL. Did you ever put your head out the window?Mr. NORMAN. No, sir; I don't remember ever putting my head out the window.Mr. BALL. And he reports that you stated that two additional shots were fired after you pulled your head back in from the window. Do you remember telling him that?Mr. NORMAN. No, sir; I don't. ( my thoughts: There is a well known photo of one of the men ( Jarman, Williams or Norman) sticking his head out of their 5th floor open window and "looking up" toward the window directly above them.) Mr. McCLOY. At the time after you heard the shots, did you have any thought that you might run upstairs and see if anybody was up there where the shots were coming from there?Mr. NORMAN. No, sir. Mr. McCLOY. Did you feel that it might be dangerous to go upstairs? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. ( my thoughts: if Norman didn't have "any" thought about running upstairs how could he have the thought that it might be dangerous to do so?)

Oswald was singled out to the DPD supposedly because he was one employee who was not present later when Truly did a head count. At that point, Oswald had left the building. He took off to get a bus ride home. However, we know factually that Oswald didn't leave the TXSBD "immediately" after the shooting. He hung around long enough to saunter into the 2nd floor lunch room to buy a soda pop out of the dispensary machine and stand around sipping this when Officer Baker saw him and confronted him there. Oswald later was reported to be in the first floor lobby area by reporter Robert McNeil who asked him if there was a phone available upon which Oswald directed him to a wall mounted pay telephone. If a man wearing a "brown coat" was seen "running" out the back door of the TXSBD building right after the shooting ( leaving even sooner than Oswald?) who could this person have been? Like you mentioned, there were other companies in the building. Ones that may have had suited employees. Mostly women though. Maybe he was a salesman? But why run out the back? Why run at all? We know of other suited men around the TXSBD who when confronted by police pulled out agency badges/ID. The fact they were there on the scene in those first few post shooting minutes is just another tip off of more going on than just lone gunman Oswald sipping soda, giving phone location advise and then walking ( not running) to catch a bus home.

BC, how many employees in the TXSBD even wore business suit coats? The huge majority of male employees there ( manual workers ) didn't wear coats like that, especially on a sunny day. Heck even boss Roy Truly dressed more casually. Other thoughts. Harold Norman, Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman Jr. were all "directly under" the shooter on the floor just feet above them. They heard the booming shots. They felt the concussions and the gun explosions actually knocked white powder ( dust/paint/asbestos?) down from the ceiling above them and into their hair. Norman testified under oath that he not only heard rifle bolt action right above him between shots ( boom, click click, boom, click click, boom) but he also heard the spent cartridges hitting the floor! I can imagine anyone freezing upon hearing gun shots being fired just 10 feet away from them ( in this case above ) and not reacting blindly and running to their source. Like so many on the ground dropping down to their knees or lying flat when they heard and saw JFK and Connally being hit so close to them. It's a protective instinct. But, I also can't help but think that Norman, Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman knew within just a minute or so that they actually heard the sniper right above them shooting away. You think they might have gone looking for this culprit, or at least considered doing so or talked to each other about doing so. But they wanted no part of that action. How long before these three guys actually left where they were during the shots and went downstairs? And how soon did they contact the police in their building and tell them about their incredibly close proximity encounter with the shooter? Had they been up on the 6th floor at all that day? Did they see Oswald up on that floor at all that day? Someone had to have been up on that floor at some point that Friday work day. Tons of boxes of books there that had to be dealt with, and floor work being done on the floor area as well. Somebody had their lunch on that floor that day. Chicken and soda bottle found in a bag there. If I were the police that day and found out that Norman, Williams and Jarman Jr. were just feet under the shooter while it was being done, I would have dragged them down to the station as a first priority for an interview. Were these three guys even taken back to the DPD for questioning that day?

Houston street pedestrian Carolyn Walther clearly stated that of the two men she saw in the same TXSBD upper floor window just before JFK arrived into Dealey Plaza ( with both holding rifles) one of these men was wearing a "brown" coat. So, we have two eyewitnesses identifying a man inside the TXSBD upper floor window just before the JFK hit, and one leaving out the back of the book depository just after the hit...both wearing a brown coat. Coincidence? Brown coats were not the common coat color of the day.

Houston street pedestrian Carolyn Walther clearly stated that of the two men she saw in the same TXSBD upper floor window just before JFK arrived into Dealey Plaza ( with both holding rifles) one of these men was wearing a "brown" coat. So, we have two eyewitnesses identifying a man inside the TXSBD upper floor window just before the JFK hit, and one leaving out the back of the book depository just after the hit...both wearing a brown coat. Coincidence? Brown coats were not the common coat color of the day.

That's for sure one of the main reasons.

I wonder if Sprague and Tannebaum resigned mostly because they knew the fix was in and they would never be able to overcome it? And maybe even felt their lives could be in danger if they pursued the case as they wanted to, but would never admit this outside of their tightest circle?

Exactly. Like Sprague, I also believe the Leopoldo/ Angelo/ Leon Oswald Sylvia Odio visit story and it's incredibly strong conspiracy indication importance. The Warren Commission's dismissal of her story is one of the most suspiciously irrational and neglectful actions of their performance. Mr. Gerald ( no proof of Oswald and Ferry ever interacting or knowing each other ) Posner threw another false credibility damaging propaganda bone out there with his assessment of Sylvia Odio being a pathological histrionic case. Yet, Sylvia Odio's sister Annie was right there just feet behind Sylvia during her supposed histrionic Cubans with Leon Oswald visit spell Posner alleges. She has also backed up much of Sylvia sworn oath testimony. Was she also afflicted with a sever case history of histrionic behavior?

Like the just passed on Sprague, I also believe the Sylvia Odio story was incredibly important and true. If Sylvia Odio made up or exaggerated her Leopoldo/Angelo/Leon Oswald visit story due to her histrionic pathology as Posner claims, then Sylvia's sister Annie must have also had a similar histrionic episode at the exact same time. Annie was right there feet behind Sylvia during the men's presence. Annie was the first to open the door when they knocked and she saw these same men up close herself. Sister Annie has never contradicted Sylvia's story, she's even backed it up...the rest of her life. Annie has never stated that her sister made up or exaggerated the visit story for any reason, especially a mental illness one. Did the WC call Annie Odio to testify under oath so they could hear from an arms length away eye-witness to this incredibly important conspiracy indicating tale of her sister Sylvia Odio? Sylvia's story was potentially that important that they should have. And like I mentioned, even if the "Leon Oswald" Sylvia was introduced to by Leopoldo was an imposter, the fact that Leopoldo made it a point to state his name "twice" to Ms. Odio that evening and did so again the next day over the telephone is truly a huge caliber Oswald setting up conspiracy smoking gun. One that was fired that night right outside Sylvia Odio's apartment door. The Warren Commission also chose not to believe Seth Kantor's Jack Ruby meeting and conversation Parkland hospital story. You did not see Jack Ruby at Parkland hospital soon after JFK died there. We believe tacky strip club owner, mob connected, nut case murderer Jack Ruby over you Mr. stable, educated and established newspaper writer and former Marine Seth Kantor.

Arnold Rowland was clearly the most credible Dealey Plaza eyewitness to men in the upper floor school book depository windows just minutes before JFK was hit imo. He was farther back than Euins ( who was more underneath ) which actually gave Rowland a better 'full frontal' viewing perspective. Rowland also kept looking at the upper floor windows longer than anyone else. His descriptions were quite detailed. The balding older negro man, the color and type of shirt he was wearing. He described the rifle carrying man in the sixth floor window with not just physical details, but a general type of rifle ( high powered ) and even how this man held the rifle. Rowland also stated early on his observation of the 2 or 3 negro men in the open windows just below the alleged snipers window. Just more credible recounting. Rowland was young with great eyesight. He was fairly intelligent sounding. Everything I have ever read about his multiple statements under questioning and his personal background only bolstered the believability and accuracy of his story. We have a couple of buildings here in downtown Monterey, California that are 6 stories high. One is configured somewhat like the TXSBD in that it is square with many windows. This is the Marriot Hotel. I have stationed myself at different distances from the Marriot based on the known distances that Rowland gave from his location to the TXSBD when he observed the men in the higher floors. I believe it was around 175 feet? "Mr. SPECTER - What is your best estimate of the distance between where you were standing and the man holding the rifle whom you have just described? Mr. ROWLAND - 150 feet approximately, very possibly more. I don't know for sure. Mr. SPECTER - Are you very good at judging distances of that sort? Mr. ROWLAND - Fairly good. Mr. SPECTER - Have you had any experience or practice at judging such distances? Mr. ROWLAND - Yes. Even in using the method in physics or, you know, elementary physics of looking at a position in two different views, you can tell its distance. I did that quite frequently. And the best I can recollect it was within 150 to 175 feet." I have also gone as far away as 268 feet which was the distance of JFK's limo at the time of the head shot as well. Like the TXSBD on 11,22,1963, the Monterey Marriot also faces South. Which means that in the noon hour, that side of the hotel is very brightly bathed in full sun. I am always amazed at how clearly I can see anyone in those 6th floor windows from these distances and at mid-day. Not just because those distances are not that far away, but having full bright sun illuminating the entire side of the hotel ( and with no shadows ) just brings out every detail. Even several feet into any open windows. A few times I did see guests looking out their open windows. With 20/20 eyesight, I too could describe them as well as Rowland. Carolyn Walther also had a better perspective than Euins. Like Rowland she too was on Houston street and I believe even closer to the TXSBD than him. Based on how clearly I could see into the windows of a very similar 6 or 7 story building in full sun and from the same distances, I also believe Walther could see the kinds of details she stated when she saw one and even two men behind the open 6th floor window. She described two men holding rifles. She even described one of the men as wearing a brown sportscoat. Walthers got the floor wrong. To be honest, this is a common mistake. Who counts floors under her circumstances? And many people count the second story floor as the first.