Denny Zartman

The author claimed there were dozens of records withheld. Greg confirmed it. Max Good's statement is true. Where in Max Good's statement does it make an exception for tax records? @Cory Santos?

Don't tell me, I wasn't the one asking where they were and if they existed at all.

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/27750-are-any-records-being-held-back-on-ruth-paine/

An article by Jefferson Morley from his upcoming book "Scorpions’ Dance: The President, the Spymaster and Watergate", spotlighting a taped conversation from 1971 between Richard Nixon and Richard Helms. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/06/05/nixon-helms-cia-jfk-assassination-00037232

Tracy, There's nothing wrong with doing the right thing and getting something in return for it. It's nice when that happens. Everyone wins, and that's wonderful. But expecting something in return should not be the motivation for doing the right thing. That's the difference between an act of charity and a transaction. Doing the right thing because it is the right thing to do is generally encouraged by the church, whereas doing the right thing because you're expecting sexual favors in return is generally discouraged by churches. At times in my life I have helped people and animals and it did not make me feel good or came at an expense I couldn't afford. But I did it anyway because it was the right thing to do and it needed to be done. I have known other people who have done similar things. I disagree with your assertion that truly selfless acts don't exist. If part of the reason Ruth wanted to help Marina because Ruth had a serious case of love at first sight and wanted to jump her bones, that's fine. I don't believe it, but if it's true I am not in a position to judge. All I would ask is that we please stop holding up Ruth's religion and wholesome lifestyle as if it were some sort of character reference useful in evaluating her honesty. Please remember, she's 1. coveting her neighbor's wife, 2. violating her marriage vows, and 3. hoping Marina would violate her own marriage vows.

So it was news to you guys. It was a simple question. You didn't know 14,000 documents were still being kept secret and you didn't even know who holds those documents. Amazing. We don't know how many documents are regarding Ruth Paine, because the documents haven't been released yet. It's been said multiple times now. What is so hard for you to understand about this?

Reading these threads for the past month and a half has been like peeking into an alternate dimension. It truly is a case of "doth protest too much" and makes me anticipate the film more, not less. With this kind of reaction to his film, it seems Max must really be onto something.

The National Archives. 700 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20408 I know about them because they were mentioned in the most recent release of JFK documents. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-15/read-full-documents-jfk-papers-release-reveal-more-on-assassination Is this really news to you guys?

Forgive me, @Joe Bauer, you're one of my favorite people in the forum. I always enjoy reading your posts, but I must respectfully disagree with you on this particular issue. In your earlier post you wrote: And you go on to describe her alleged altruistic Quaker nature. But then you follow that with your next post where you write: Which suggests she was motivated primarily or solely by what she would personally get out of helping Marina and not because of the satisfaction gained from a doing a truly selfless act of charity. That's not sincere, that's selfish. if the foreign exchange student story is true, then she was either defying or ignoring what was specifically being encouraged by her church and practiced by her fellow Quakers. In my opinion this would further undercut any claims of her sincerity because of her specific religion. It seems Ruth had an interest in other cultures as evidenced by her knowledge of the Russian language. Why then would a foreign exchange student not satisfy her interest? And I sincerely doubt that Quaker teachings encourage Quakers to help individuals in order to satisfy their own carnal desires. When you and your wife so generously took in a young mother, I hope neither of you did so because of what either of you wanted to gain out of it, but because she was a human being in need of help. I believe Ruth's involvement with the Oswald family did not happen by chance and was not primarily or even secondarily driven by what the young people refer to as a "girl crush." Ruth needed to be in Lee's life to such a level where it gets Lee in Dallas, anchors him there, and where it would not be suspicious if Ruth "helped" Lee get a job downtown at what just happened to be the pre-selected kill zone. I personally believe the "crush" story is overblown, exaggerated to discourage further speculation about Ruth's motives. I think the Paine's involvement with the Oswald's was primarily as a result of needing to place the patsy at the specific location and secondarily to have a convenient source of incriminating physical evidence few would question. After all, she's just a nice Quaker lady.

They haven't been released and aren't available to researchers.

It seems to me that the answer is clear: those investigations did not want to go to where that trail would have led them. And it wasn't to the Mafia, Cuba, Russia, or Texas oilmen.

I think so. Remember the "I'm a gambling man" quote. He certainly seemed like the type who wouldn't have hesitated to bend the odds in his favor. Also, if he didn't order the hit, it seems that the conspirators got very, very lucky in having a new president who would be 100% on board with a cover-up from minute one to the very end. I tend to look skeptically at any aspect of the assassination plot that relies on luck. That said, Allen Dulles apparently participating a plot to assassinate de Gaulle is highly incriminating in my view. If Dulles would be willing to sanction the assassination of the president of an allied country, it's not a giant leap to think he would approve of a hit on his own president. Just my opinion.

I can't find the reference, but I remember reading that someone from Ruth's church said their church had a program to take in foreign exchange students, and Ruth did not participate in this program.

Kirk, Ruth Paine wasn't a spy, she was an asset. Theres a difference. An asset can live a regular life and be pressed into service when needed. And there is nothing "greatly ambiguous" about the fact that she cold-called Truly and got Oswald his job at the TSBD. If you believe the conspirators just got lucky when placing Oswald in the building, that's your right, but few people are going to take you seriously. We have to sit through Greg's hogwash about Oswald requesting a job in a tall office building. Gee whiz, it sure makes sense then that he applied to be a baggage handler at an airport, since we all know baggage handlers work in tall buildings. Now you understand why she wasn't questioned by the HSCA and the ARRB.

It seems to me they didn't want to go to where an honest investigation would have led them.

Excellent news. I'm looking forward to seeing the film. Thanks for being on the forum @Max Good. I appreciate it.

I believe he would have been found dead in his cell the next day. "Suicide." There was no way they were going to ever let him talk.

1. The current position of the US government is that it was probably a conspiracy. 2. The WC did not state that there was not a conspiracy, just that it could not find evidence of one. 3. The frontal neck wound appeared to be consistent with an entrance wound, not an exit. 4. JFK's back wound was shallow and was never tracked through the body. 5. LHO had no motive. He continually denied the crimes, which undercuts the claim the he killed JFK in order to "be somebody" and earn his place in history. 6. LHO was seen on the 2nd floor five minutes before the assassination and again seen in the 2nd floor two minutes after, not sweating or winded. Combined with statements from witnesses who were travelling on the staircase just after the assassination , it's strong circumstantial evidence that he was not on the sixth floor at 12:30. 7. Three WC members and LBJ himself doubted LHO acted alone. 8. No gunpowder residue found on LHO's cheek. From what I understand this would have been court admissible evidence that LHO had not fired a rifle that day. 9. JFK's personal physician and the only medical professional to see JFK at Parkland and Bethesda refused to go on record agreeing with the number of bullets the WC said entered JFK's body. 10. CIA's J. Walton Moore > intelligence connected George de Mohrenschildt > CIA connected Ruth Paine = LHO in Dallas and in the TSBD.

Excellent work, @Keyvan Shahrdar. I think you've done it. The bullet hole in the chrome over the windshield is not visible in the picture taken at Love Field.

Good work by everyone on this thread. It certainly makes for thought-provoking reading.

It's a very good series of articles. It must be fascinating to have the opportunity to discuss the case with Dr. Mantik. I'm sure his book will be a must-own.

Interesting.

I believe the official story is that it was a dent that was there prior to the assassination and was made during attaching or detaching of the detachable roof. I also recall that the edge of the detachable roof/bubble did not have anything at that spot that could have caused that dent, though I cannot confirm this as a fact.

No problem at all, my apologies for saying things in a confusing way!

I mean the theory proposed by others here on the forum of a false false flag: that the original plan among the conspirators was an intentionally botched assassination attempt to, I guess, re-impress upon Kennedy the importance of his personal security? And somehow this fake assassination was piggybacked upon and turned into the real thing or was just another ruse entirely, i.e. the false false flag. It's not my theory, and I don't subscribe to it. I agree with you, Sandy. There was considerable CIA effort put into making it look like Oswald was being directed by the Soviets and the Cubans.