Tony Krome

Update for this thread; Miss Naomi Gabriel of Polk informed the FBI that the 1963 Irving Directory canvassing ran for the month of December 1962, and that the directory became available in April 1963. So that gives us a good idea about how they generally operate. Ed Ledoux over at ROKC has found that the 1961 criss cross shows Robbie M Sharber living at 2511 West 5th. Information that I have is that Robbie M Sharber, by May 1962, had moved to Plano, and had a Plano phone number. When he moved I don't know, but it could have been as early as January 1961, and the 1961 directory would still have shown him at 2511. The material I have showing BL3-8965 at 2511 West 5th is prior to December 1961. The 1962 criss cross is unfortunatly not available. Interestingly, a researcher, I only know as Martha, found that Robbie M Sharber, was mentioned in the 1964 COLES directory as living at 2511 West 5th. So did he move back? Was he the owner of the property? Was he renting out 2511 in the intervening period? ****** update, Robbie M Sharber was still in PLANO as of JULY 1965, so the COLES directory info is in error ****** Ed Ledoux has Robert Cassel showing up at 2511 in the 1963 criss cross. We know that Alfred Randle purchased 2439 West 5th in November 1962, so if Cassel moved into 2511 in December 1962, he would show up in the 1963 criss cross. To summarise the above, we don't know for sure who was occupying 2511 West 5th between January 1961 and November 1962. This is the time-frame which BL3-8965 exists at 2511.

The only time Oswald got close to Walker was in October 1963. Charles Kllhr and his wife Virginia were friends of Walker. Charles was affiliated with a church over at Oak Cliff. I'm not aware of any nefarious deeds by Charles, except so say that if the car was postively connected to him, it would have warranted a close look at people close to him in Irving.

No, Wesley got out of his car, and as soon as he shut the door, they both started walking towards the TSBD. It was during the walk that Wesley decided to take his time and the distance between them increased, but in the end, only by 50 feet.

Wesley was directly asked what Oswald did with the package. His first response was to describe Oswald's jacket, then mentioned that he put the package up under his arm. Oswald then waited for Wesley behind the car near the fence. Wesley did not describe, in WC testimony, at that point, that Oswald opened up the rear door, or if he reached back for the package before exiting the car. If the package was 2 feet of lightweight curtain rods, I'd imagine he could have simply reached back with one hand and grabbed them.

Oh, I hear you alright. They left that house stand there untouched like it was filled with lepers. Here's something more for you. The Paine address book has two notable entries. The neighbours to the west, the Roberts, was filled out completely, whereas the very next entry, the Randles, was totally blank where the address would be. We all know what a fastidiuos keeper of records Ruth is, and the notebook shows the BL3-8965 Randle number. Neighbour Linnie knew of Ruth since 1959, and at least admits to meeting with Ruth about two years before March 1964, before she moved to 2439. So that would be early 1962. Let's just say that Ruth entered BL3-8965 in her notebook after that meeting, if she hadn't already done so years earlier. If she did, that can only mean that the Randles had the same phone number both at 2439 and before she moved.

The relevant material that I have uncovered has been passed on to a prominent researcher. The material clearly shows that if you had of dialled BL3-8965 (the Randle number) in late 1961, the telephone at 2511 West 5th St in Irving, would have rung. 2511 West 5th (the so called "vacant" house in Nov 1963), was the house directly next door to the Paine house. These are the facts we already know; 1. Linnie Mae Randle advised the FBI in March 1964, that she had known the Paines for about 5 years, which brings it back to 1959, the very same year that the Paines moved into 2515 West 5th St. 2. Linnie Mae Randle advised the Warren Commission in March 1964, that she used to live across the street from the Paines before moving to her then present address at 2439 West 5th St. 3. Alfred E. Randle (Linnie's father in law) purchased 2439 West 5th St in November 1962. Linnie and Bill made the repayments after moving in. 4. Back in 1960s, it was possible for a householder to transfer their telephone number to another location as long as it was within the same exchange, in this case BL3. I'd be interested to see what fellow researchers here can contribute to this, cheers!

At some point, there were 8 people sleeping in the Randle two bedroom house. Presumably the 2nd bedroom was occupied by Wesley's mother and step-dad (apart from his stay at the medical facility). The main bedroom, I guess, was occupied by both parents, and the 3 daughters were scattered about somehow. So the couch makes sense, is that something you have heard Wesley mention?

Great Gif Chris, clearly shows someone clapping on the TSBD steps.

My question was; what do you estimate the time span was between the 1st & 2nd shots?

Personally, I would duck down and mash the gas pedal. If someone was willing to shoot a cop, I wouldn't risk presenting myself as another target. While I have your attention, and using Benavides' testimony, what do you estimate the time span was between the 1st & 2nd shots?

Would you stop within 15 feet of an ongoing shooting?

100% the same guy in both photos. The lighting source and the haircuts contribute to the perception of two different people. The left photo has the light source coming in from top left, which "flattens" the chin and shadows the nose and one ear. The right photo has the eyes better illuminated by the camera flash. I'm also seeing a difference in pupil size, which makes sense with the different light sources.

She'd been working for Southwestern for years

I gather you are don't consider the lady on the phone as suspicious. Fair enough, you have the TSBD employee list, who is your candidate?

Unless someone can identify that lady, she may have been a stranger to Hine. She makes a phone call right after the JFKA. What are we talking? 30 seconds, a minute? Why lock the door if there was staff inside?

Hine could hear her voice. Hine could see her through the curtain. Months later and Hine had no name to match this person?

Let me be a little clearer. "Screeching" is audible. I'm not questioning the limo stop.

"screeching of tyres" is what this Witt guy says Calling on Witt believers to find any corroborating accounts

What was the date that the WH agreed to a motorcade?

Did you know that if there was no follow up interviews with the 3 boys, after their initial statements, you'd come away thinking Williams was with the other two the whole upstairs time.

Yes to Sawyer on the passenger elevator. Dougherty says he heard one noise. The WC and Dougherty both believe he was on the 5th floor at the time of the assassination. I involved myself in a discussion with Pat to explore the possibility that Dougherty heard the noise after the assassination. At this point, I'm sure that Truly and Baker did not see Shelley and Lovelady by the freight elevators, and that Shelley was about right with his FBI estimation of 10 minutes. Here is Lovelady entering the 1st floor; Mr. BALL - You came in through the first floor? Mr. LOVELADY - Right. Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor? Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie. Mr. BALL - Who is Vickie? Mr. LOVELADY - The girl that works for Scott, Foresman. Mr. BALL - What is her full name? Mr. LOVELADY - I wouldn't know. Mr. BALL - Vickie Adams? Mr. LOVELADY - I believe so. Mr. BALL - Would you say it was Vickie you saw? Mr. LOVELADY - I couldn't swear. Mr. BALL - Where was the girl? Mr. LOVELADY - I don't remember what place she was but I remember seeing a girl as she was talking to Bill or saw Bill or something, then I went over and asked one of the guys what time it was and to see if we should continue working or what. If Shelley and Lovelady entered the west entrance within a minute of the assassination, I don't see why Lovelady would go up to one of the guys and ask the time in relation to "continue working". It should have been obvious that it was circa 12:31, and that they were still on their lunchbreak. Plus why ask one of the guys if his boss is right there? However, the 25 minutes Lovelady told HSCA that it took to enter the TSBD makes more sense, in that he would ask that question.

Previously in this thread, I mentioned circa 12:38 for the Baker/Sawyer meeting. The time would relatively be an even split between Sawyer exiting his car and re-entering his car. Pat has Shelley calling to Dougherty to guard the passenger elevator at the point where Sawyer confronts the mystery man. (who Pat believes is Shelley) So Shelley calls out at circa 12:35 as Dougherty is walking to the west elevator. Major problem here is how on earth could Dougherty believe everything was so normal on the 1st floor, 5 minutes after the assassination, that he intended to start picking orders? That aside, effectively, in Pat's hypothesis, both Shelley/Sawyer and Dougherty would be riding their respective elevators upwards at the same time. Dougherty to the 6th, Shelley/Sawyer to the 4th. The above destroys Shelley's affidavit by the way. Dougherty was not "left to guard the elevator" So by the time Dougherty reaches the 6th, Sawyer is moving across the 4th floor, noting the ladies, the open space etc. Dougherty begins to pick orders on the 6th. If we have the Shelley call out at 12:35, we must be reaching 12:37 by the time Dougherty takes the ride up 6 floors, and actually completes picking orders on the 6th. Then Dougherty re-enters the elevator and descends to the 5th to again pick orders, at a time where it must be close to the time where Baker meets Sawyer on the 4th at circa 12:38. To subscribe to this hypothesis, not only is Shelley's affidavit incorrect, but also what he told the FBI. The hypothesis demands that Shelley's estimation of 10 minutes to enter the west entrance was out by more than 10 times.

Don't forget Truly and Shelley were handling rifles on the Wednesday. And where was Oswald at the time? He was right there, so close he could hear their conversation. Oswald reported this to police on Friday. I'm sure even DVP would give Oswald some credit for that. So if one suspects Truly and Shelley, what was the intention of the Wednesday gathering at the will-call counter?

You can work Sawyer backwards through the timeline. He's back in his car on the radio at circa 12:40. Before that he was discussing security with police near the front doors. Before that he rode the passenger elevator down from the 4th floor. And finally before that, he was chatting with Baker in the North/West 4th floor corner of the TSBD.