Steve Roe

Complete and utter nonsense.

You had 57+ years, what do you have to show for it? Nothing of course.

Jonathan, sadly it never ends. As you can see, some people will never accept anything and go to extreme depths of absurdity to confirm their emotional beliefs.

Yes, Marina admitted burning another picture with the rifle. Here is Marguerite's WC testimony about seeing that photo, which Marina had hidden in her shoe, folded up. There's no fakery going on with the backyard photos, that's been debunked decades ago. Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir--the 22d, Friday, the 22d.I am worried because Lee hasn't had an attorney. And I am talking about that, and Mrs. Paine said, "Oh, don't worry about that. I am a member of the Civil Liberties Union, and Lee will have an attorney, I can assure you."I said to myself but when? Of course, I didn't want to push her, argue with her. But the point was if she was a member of the Union, why didn't she see Lee had an attorney then. So I wasn't too happy about that.Now, gentlemen, this is some very important facts.My daughter-in-law spoke to Mrs. Paine in Russian, "Mamma." she says. So she takes me into the bedroom and closes the door. She said, "Mamma, I show you." She opened the closet, and in the closet was a lot of books and papers. And she came out with a picture a picture of Lee, with a gun.It said, "To my daughter June"-written in English.I said, "Oh, Marina, police." I didn't think anything of the picture.Now, you must understand that I don't know what is going on on television--I came from the jailhouse and everything, so I don't know all the circumstances, what evidence they had against my son by this time. I had no way of knowing. But I say to my daughter, "To my daughter. June." anybody can own a rifle, to go hunting. You yourself probably have a rifle. So I am not connecting this with the assassination--"To my daughter, June." Because I would immediately say, and I remember--I think my son is all agent all the time no one is going to be foolish enough if they mean to assassinate the President, or even murder someone to take a picture of themselves with that rifle, and leave that there for evidence.So, I didn't think a thing about it. And it says "To my daughter, June." I said, "The police," meaning that if the police got that, they would use that against my son, which would be a natural way to think.She says, "You take, Mamma."'"Yes, Mamma, you take."I said, "No, Marina. Put back in the book." So she put the picture back in the book. Which book it was, I do not know.So the next day, when we are at the courthouse this is on Saturday-she--we were sitting down, waiting to see Lee. She puts her shoe down, she says, "Mamma, picture." She had the picture folded up in her shoe.Now, I did not see that it was the picture. but I know that it was, because she told me it was, and I could see it was folded up. It wasn't open for me to see. I said, "Marina." Just like that. So Robert came along and he says, 146 "Robert" I said, "No, no Marina." I didn't want her to tell Robert about the picture. Right there, you know. That was about the picture.Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever tell her to destroy the picture?Mrs. OSWALD. No. Now, I have to go into this. I want to tell you about destroying the picture.Now, that was in Mrs. Paine's home.I want to start to remember--because when we leave Mrs. Paine's home, we go into another phase, where the picture comes in again. So I have to tell the--unless you want to ask me specific questions.Mr. RANKIN. No, you go right ahead.Mrs. OSWALD. Mrs. Paine, in front of me, gave Marina $10. Now, Mrs. Paine, when I said, after the representatives left--I said, "You know, I do want to get paid for the story, because I am destitute, and here is a girl with--her husband is going to be in jail, we will need money for attorneys, with two babies."She said, "You don't have to worry about Marina. Marina will always have a home with me, because Marina helps."Now, Mrs. Paine speaks Russian fluently. "She helps me with my Russian language. She babysits for me and helps me with the housework, and you never have to worry about Marina. She will always have a home with me."Now, Mr. and Mrs. Paine are separated. Mr. Paine does not live here. So it is just the two women.So, Mrs. Paine didn't graciously do anything for Marina, as the paper stated--that Lee never did pay Mrs. Paine for room or board. Mrs. Paine owes them money. That is almost the kind of work that I do, or the airline stewardesses do, serve food and everything. Marina was earning her keep, and really should have had a salary for it--what I am trying to say, gentlemen, Mrs. Paine had Marina there to help babysit with the children, with her children-if she wanted to go running around and everything.So actually she wasn't doing my son or Marina the favor that she claims she was doing.But the point I am trying to stress is that she did tell me Marina would never have to worry, because Marina would have a home with her.At this particular moment, I cannot remember anything of importance in the house. Otherwise, about the picture I have stated. And Mrs. Paine with the Life representative, and her saying that Lee would have an attorney, and Mrs. Paine giving Marina a $10 bill.Oh, Marina told me, "Mamma, I have this money." It was money in an envelope--in the bedroom, when she showed me the picture. I said, "How much money, Marina.""About how much?" I asked her."About $100 and some."Now, Mrs. Paine has stated to the Life representative that Lee and Marina were saving his pay in order to have a home for themselves for Christmas time, because they had never been in a home of their own at Christmas time in order to celebrate Christmas. So, the hundred and some odd dollars isn't a big sum, considering that Lee paid $8 a week room in Dallas--and it has been stated by the landlady that Lee ate lunchmeat or fruit. And Lee was very, very thin when I saw him. And Lee gave his salary to his wife in order to save to have this home for Christmas.So, that is not a lot of money to have in the house I would not think so, because I believe Lee was earning about $50 a week. And let's say he could live for about $10 or $12. And he gave the rest of the money to his wife.And so I reported this money to the Secret Service while we were in Six Flags--that Marina had the money. I wanted them to know. She showed me the money.I cannot think now-I did think of the money after going back--but I cannot think of anything at this particular moment that would be of any benefit that happened in this house.Mr. RANKIN. In regard to the photograph, I will show you some photographs. Maybe you can tell me whether they are the ones that you are referring to. Here is Commission's Exhibit 134.Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir, that is not the picture. 147 Mr. RANKIN. And 133, consists of two different pictures.Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir, that is not the picture. He was holding the rifle and it said, "To my daughter, June, with love." He was holding the rifle up.Mr. RANKIN. By holding it up, you mean----Mrs. OSWALD. Like this.Mr. RANKIN. Crosswise, with both hands on the rifle?Mrs. OSWALD. With both hands on the rifle.Mr. RANKIN. Above his head?Mrs. OSWALD. That is right.

The topic of this thread is the backyard photos. That's what I am addressing here. No need to sidetrack the conversation over to Parkland doctors.

There's some incredible pretzel logic going on here with these backyard photos. Apparently some people want to reject the following: 1. The HSCA photo panel of experts (not Jack White or armchair internet jockeys) authenticated the photos as real. 2. FBI Shaneyfelt matched the irregular edge markings from Oswald's camera to an original negative. 3. Yes, there was one or two NEGATIVES found in Oswald's possessions. Did your secret conspirators leave that in there as well? Explain that, please. 4. Marina admitted taking them. 5. George DeM. had one (133-A). Well isn't that interesting, the secret Ninja Conspirators gave one to George. Wow! 6. The HSCA photo panel examined the ORIGINAL PHOTOS AND NEGATIVE to come to their conclusion they were real, not faked. 7. Oswald's own mother, Marguerite admitted under oath that she saw one that Marina burned. Now why would she do that? 8. Somehow these secret conspirators knew where Oswald was living at Neely street, way back in April 1963! Wow, amazing stuff. Somehow they secretly went over there and snapped photos, but couldn't get the leaning pose down right! Of course the simple answer is they were real, not faked. If you want to wrap yourself into a pretzel trying to explain all this away......go right ahead. Your armchair photoshopping of Oswald's pictures will never be believable. Frankly all this is laughable. When you ignore the evidence, the sky's the limit. You can make up anything.

Thank you Mr. Cohen for injecting common sense back into this argument. If I recall right, a backyard photo negative was found in Oswald's possessions. And of course, George DeMorenschidlt had a copy of one of the BYP's. The backyard photos are real, never faked. Some people just can't accept the facts.

Still debating whether the backyard photos were faked? The HSCA PROVED they were not. The grain pattern in the head is the exact same pattern in the rest of the photos. Still people reject this? Marina still admits taking those photos. Time to move on and accept it. They were real and NEVER faked.

Why debate? I am getting specific about certain claims that are provably false, or just speculation. The Martinsburg, Penn "Silver Slipper" and the claim that it was connected to the "Silver Slipper" in Eunice, La should be exposed as nothing but mindless speculation. It was the Silver Slipper in Las Vegas. There are people out there that might believe swallow this myth whole. You may call that a dismissive attitude, I call it setting the record straight. It is a silly theory.

I have no idea what you are talking about? Alias? Johnites????

Is this not a open discussion forum? Or is it a conspiracy only forum? I've submitted just a few items that do not jive with the truth, I.E. "The Silver Slipper" story in Mr. DiEugenio's book trying to connect the Martinburg trailer ad to the Eunice, La "Silver Slipper" Rose Cheramie story. That was undeniably 100% false assertion on Mr. DiEugenio's and Lisa Pease's part. Of course, he never wanted to pursue it further. That should tell you something. There are more that I haven't presented here, but appears that anything contrary to your beliefs that a conspiracy existed, are not welcomed.

John, I agree with that. However standing behind your claims and evidence, shows your commitment to the facts as presented. There's way too many story tellers in the JFK assassination literature, who will not acknowledge facts contrary to what they wrote. It's been a long tendency here to divide JFK researchers, authors, students, etc. into tribal LN and CT camps. What matters is the truth, as documented by proven facts. That's what the focus of this forum should be, and in some cases, I've seen that. Everyone makes a mistake, for sure. It takes a bigger person to admit he/her were wrong. I've been proven wrong a few times, by people on both sides of the argument.

There you go bragging again. He's posting evidence, documents....a lot of them from Garrison's own papers. You're seeing another side of the story. Apparently you are not happy about that. Don't you agree both sides of an issue should be discussed? This isn't a one-trick pony conspiracy forum, is it?

John, if you don't stand behind what you post, or believe it yourself....then do you expect others to believe you? I'll stake my meager reputation that the Rose Cheramie connection to the JFK assassination is nothing but phony. That goes for the silly Margaret Hoover "Silver Slipper" false connection to the "Silver Slipper" in Eunice. If I'm proven wrong, I will admit it. Until then.....there is no hard evidence to connect these silly stories.

Oh well......guess he won't answer the question. Not surprised.

Mr. DiEugenio, I know you are a busy guy demolishing Litwin, McAdams, Aynesworth, Lambert, Posner and Reitzes. As well, in a boastful way, telling everyone who cares to read, of your conquests of truth. Well that brings me to some very simple questions. Do you actually believe this stuff about Cheramie being hooked up with Sergio Aracacha Smith/Emilio Santana? And do you really believe the Margaret Hoover's "Silver Slipper" trailer ad was a direct link to the "Silver Slipper" near Eunice, LA? And the Oswald-Shaw incident in Clinton? Bottom line, can you look everyone in the eye here on this forum, and state this was the honest to god truth, these stories are factual? In other words, will you stake your reputation on it?

I guess Mr. DiEugenio has been waiting on my answer. So I will address it honestly. Most likely Mr. DiEugenio, you have been to New Orleans more than I have. So if I remember correctly, way back in the 90's, I've been to New Orleans approximately 8-10 times. All of my visits to N.O. were on business as we had an office down there, I believe on Poydras street, near Exxon's headquarters. I didn't do any JFK related research at all back in that time frame. Regarding Clinton/Jackson, I've never been there, as I had no business reason to go. I did travel other locales, mainly in South Louisiana (south of I-10) to Lafayette, Crowley, Cameron, Fourchon and Metairie (business associates). Later in the 2000's, I made trips to Shreveport, Alexandria and Monroe. I will repeat, I did not do any JFK related research on my various trips into Louisiana. At that time, I still believed in a JFK conspiracy from 1963 to around 2010 and it never crossed my mind to investigate conspiracy matters in Louisiana, as I still believed conspiracy book authors were telling the truth about Shaw, Clinton, Banister, Ferrie, etc. And boy, was I wrong! There's my honest answer.

Well golly gee.....Let's put it another way. If Jim Garrison had evidence that Rose Cheramie worked for Jack Ruby, where is it? Don't you think something as important as that would be in Garrison's papers? Bottom line, you have no proof. Only he said-she said. That don't cut it. If Fruge/Dischler "verified" she worked for Ruby and told Jim Garrison....where is it? And of course Jack Ruby slept with Oswald...... Yeah, you got yourself another winner DiEugenio. Are you going to put me on ignore again, like last time?

Occasionally, yes. It was primary a dance-live entertainment club. Show me the verification that Marcades was a stripper for Jack Ruby, can you?

Wrong again, The Vegas Club was a dance club with live music. Ruby's sister Eva used to run that club. The Vegas Club was NOT a strip club.

For Mr. Zartman's education and all the Rose Cheramie "told the truth" believers. This HSCA interview with Fruge (released in the 2018 documents) show clearly Cheramie telling Fruge about Ruby on the plane ride to Houston. That was of course AFTER November 25, 1963. You will notice, it was NOT the Carousel Club. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=149188#relPageId=7&search=Fruge

You might want to stop and read next time, DiEugenio said this, in this thread. "In keeping with William N, I have Parnell and Roe on ignore. After that witless farrago about Kauffmann/Hoover, what else can one do?" BTW I have that Matt Vernon article with Fruge's picture. Of course she told Fruge that......after November 25th. It was never verified. However you can prove me wrong if you have evidence that a 39 year old woman danced at Jack Ruby's only strip club, The Carousel. Marcades said it was another name, NOT Carousel.

Not in the Rose Cheramie sense. If you read the HSCA's conclusions carefully, they give a high probability that there were two shooters based on the flawed acoustic study. One of the shooters in their conclusion was Oswald. The HSCA does not conclude that Rose Cheramie had exclusive evidence in the assassination. In fact HSCA staff member Patricia Orr, mentions the story, goes over the details known at the time, and points out the many false stories that Melba Marcades has told. They left it as "inconclusive". Again, this is nothing but Urban Legend.

Of course the HSCA wrote about it. What were their conclusions Mr. DiEugenio? http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol10/pdf/HSCA_Vol10_RoseCheramie.pdf And you believe it? Oswald and Ruby knew each other? Cheramie danced for Jack Ruby? Really? I thought you had me on "ignore"? What's that all about?

Of course I've researched her story and life, and it's still ongoing project uncovering new facts surrounding her tragic life. Not many people know she was raised in Dallas, I have documentation bearing that out. This is an old urban legend, that took grew roots, especially in the fact-flawed "JFK" movie. If you want another view of this Rose Chermie (or Chermi) story, read Fred Litwin's daily blog. Here's today's report. Did Dr. Wayne Owens hear Rose Cherami predict the JFK assassination? (onthetrailofdelusion.com)