Steve Roe

Running short of time today, Greg. First of all, I acknowledge your weather data. I use a different one but it's pretty much the same. I don't dispute that. I'm more interested in what is verifiable, as the true facts of the case. As I see it, this Furniture Mart sighting doesn't square up with the facts, even though it could be construed as pointing to Oswald's guilt. When I get more time, I'll look further into this. In the meantime, if you take a look at Commission Exhibit #2976, the FBI interviewed Mrs. Dominey (Gertrude Hunter's friend in Houston). It's not very flattering and points to credibility issues with Mrs. Hunter. As I stated earlier in a post, Mrs. Hunter came up with another wild story of seeing Marina at a gas station in the Hunter/Whitworth/Marina testimony. Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XXVI (maryferrell.org)

Greg, you cannot bend testimony to fit your theory. Mrs. Whitworth was extremely specific about the date, as well as Mrs. Hunter. She most certainly said it occurred before the Richland Hills vs. Irving football game. Whitworth, Edith - 7/22/64 (maryferrell.org) Mrs. Hunter said in her testimony that she didn't leave her house before 2:00 PM because she talked to her daughter before she got back off her lunch break at Commercial Title. That doesn't jive either. Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XI (maryferrell.org) If it was November 11th, don't you think both Whitworth and Hunter would have said Veterans Day???? Everyone knows it was a long holiday weekend, yet both these women made no mention of that at all. Yes, most retail outlets were open on Veterans Day. Sorry Greg, not buying it.

First of all, I enjoy this discussion and puzzle solving if you will. This story pique my interest because the manager of the Wyatt's Grocery Store in Plymouth Park Center in Irving, (same place Ruth Paine took Oswald for driving lessons), Edward Leon Humberson, was a distant relative of mine (now deceased). Wyatt's Grocery store was a Kroger food chain store, now gone. I agree there were similarities, apartment, one baby, one girl child. It looks like a case of mistaken identity to me as I find it hard to believe both of the ladies made the story up, but Mrs. Gertrude Hunter apparently had an over-active imagination. I have no idea who that couple were, but it could have been anyone. Perhaps the man was getting ready for deer season, which was mid-November in 1963. As I looked through the record, I don't recall either lady mentioning the Oswald name or Lee/Marina while in the Furniture Mart. They were both going on sight only. So, was the FBI search on the Baby/Family Oswald name only? I know they did a search of Oswald's in the general area and couldn't find anyone who had been to Irving Sport Shop in the Oswald name. The reason I reject this sighting of the Oswalds in the Furniture Mart is the inconsistencies put forth. As you know Ruth Paine flatly denied it happened for her own reasons. When the WC got Marina, Mrs. Whitworth and Mrs. Hunter all together (July 24, 1964), here's one inconsistency. The time Mrs. Whitworth said they came into the store, 3:00 to 4:00 in the afternoon. That of course doesn't jive with Ruth Paine returning at 2:00 PM. Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XI (maryferrell.org) Here's another inconsistency, Mrs. Hunter said she recalled the day was on Wednesday or Thursday right before they discussed getting football tickets. That doesn't jive because November 11, 1963 (when Oswald was at the Paine home) was on a Monday. Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XI (maryferrell.org) And here when Mrs. Hunter testified by herself (after 2:00 PM) Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XI (maryferrell.org) Now let's discuss a pivotal point here, that football game both ladies mention and attended, Richland Hills (In Fort Worth) and Irving. They were very specific on that football game. That seems like a solid anchor to me on timing. When was that game? It was on November 8, 1963. Both teams were 4A in the same division. Source of that was Fort Worth Telegram, Friday November 8th. I have the clipping mentioning the game to be played that night. Mrs. Whitworth backs up the football game story here: Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XI (maryferrell.org) And she states it here on timing: Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XI (maryferrell.org) Here's where it gets weird Greg, maybe you can comment on this. Mrs. Hunter declares she saw Marina several times before this Furniture Mart event. See the inconsistency? All of a sudden from recognizing her on TV, she comes up with this story. Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XI (maryferrell.org). Keep scrolling to see this story, just amazing. Here's another inconsistency, Mrs. Whitworth claimed "Lee" said they were living in an apartment. Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XI (maryferrell.org) Back to your car question, Mrs. Hunter says it was a Ford Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XI (maryferrell.org) I strongly encourage you and others to read through the testimony of Whitworth, Hunter, Marina, Liebeler (WC), William McKenzie (Marina's lawyer) and Peter Gregory (interpreter for Marina). It all falls apart, like a hard-shell taco in your hand. As much as I would like to pile more evidence on top of Oswald's guilt, I can't buy into this at all. There's one way we can get to the bottom of this Greg, I can make some inquires to Ruth Paine what color Michael's 1955 car was. Both ladies were adamant about a white over blue two-tone vehicle.

Valid point Greg. Here's my first observation (there are others). It all boils down to whether Oswald drove Michael Paine's 1955 Oldsmobile sedan to the Furniture Mart. As per your article: Mrs. Whitworth, Warren Commission testimony: “I would say it was a blue and white car and I have always said that it was a Ford or Plymouth—it was something with fins on it.” In Michael Paine's WC testimony, he was a little wishy-washy on what year that Oldsmobile was (1955 or 1956). As you mentioned in your article, the DPD did observe it as a 1955 Oldsmobile. Let's assume that as fact. In your article you mention correctly, Ms. Hunter's account of the vehicle: “By letter dated August 6, 1964, the President’s Commission advised Mrs. Gertrude Hunter, Irving, Texas, had furnished certain information alleging she had observed Lee Harvey Oswald in Irving, Texas, in November 1963, in an automobile she believed was a 1957 Ford, blue and white in color. Mrs. Hunter expressed the opinion this automobile was similar to an automobile owned by a Houston couple whom she identified as ‘Mr. and Mrs. Dominick’ [sic; Dominey] (…) Mrs. Dominey was questioned regarding the description of all automobiles owned by her family during 1963 (…) the only passenger automobile owned by the family during 1963 was a 1958 model Ford sedan. This automobile was purchased in 1958 and the color was originally turquoise and white.” (FBI, 8/14/64, https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=492 My point here is that 1955 Oldsmobiles did not have fins as described by Mrs. Whitworth. They in fact had rounded tail ends. 1957 and 1958 Fords did have noticeable tail end fins. You can check me out on that to verify.

My apologies Greg, I only scanned through your document. You indeed address this screw hole issue with this on page 18 of this link: Irving-Sport-Shop-109-pdf.pdf (scrollery.com)

Greg, there's a problem with this. This claim ticket mentions: $4.50 for "drill/tap" new mounting holes ($1.50 per hole Hutson, T. A. (maryferrell.org) ) for the side mounted scope and $1.50 for bore sighting the rifle, grand total of $6.00. Here's the problem, the scope on Oswald's Carcano has only 2 mount screws. That is confirmed here. Hutson, T. A. (maryferrell.org) Additionally, I did check with a friend of mine that has the exact model scope on a model 91/38 Carcano......two mounting screws. Something's not adding up here. This call from WFAA Channel 8, which DPD Detective Fay Turner got the tip from (Ray John WFAA) was either a hoax, or a big misunderstanding.

Greg, this is not making sense. Now you say Oswald did enter the Irving Sport Shop from the info provided by Ms. Whitworth, which is highly questionable itself. So, was the claim ticket for Oswald's gun or not? And why would Ryder say in his testimony he hung up the phone on Schmidt with "no comment"? Jim Lehrer of the Times Herald witnessed the Schmidt to Ryder call, and it went on for a few minutes. Lehrer, James (maryferrell.org)

Greg, You place a lot of faith on Dial Duwayne Ryder's story. If you read through all the FBI reports, his WC testimony and the most damning the Hunter Schmidt testimony, you will find mega conflicting accounts. Even a Dallas FBI agent doubted it FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 160 (maryferrell.org) Dallas Times Herald reporter Hunter Schmidt broke the story, after finally locating Ryder in Irving and calling him on the phone. Ryder then denied it. That's when Ryder began getting really fuzzy on details. Liebler tried to get to the bottom on it, because one of them was obviously lying. Would a Times Herald reporter just make this story up out of the blue? Of course not. I know Greener tried to paint Ryder in a good light, but the kid obviously got caught.

Didn't Brewer say when the house lights were turned on, he saw Oswald get up from his seat, attempt to move and sat right back down either in his same seat or nearby? What's that all about Tom? Yes, Brewer did ID Oswald for the cops from the left side of the stage (facing screen). Absolutely. McDonald heard Brewer explain to the other cops, either Hutson/Walker/Hawkins where Oswald was sitting. So, he went down the aisle, searched two guys first for weapons and then worked himself up to Oswald. Then he did the same with Oswald, had him stand on his feet, then Oswald suckered punched him. What's that all about Tom? Then Oswald pulled out his revolver and the fight was on. Why did Oswald pull out his revolver Tom? See anything suspicious going on Tom? You said: Did Oswald kill Tippit? I don’t know, and neither do you. (DiEugenio said repeatedly Oswald didn't shoot Tippit, does he get a pass too?) That's a pretty amazing comment Tom, since you and Ben Cole declared the Walker bullet was steel-jacketed and not the actual bullet in the National Archives. See the contradiction?

Seriously Tom? I don't know if you have ever been to the Texas Theater, but I have, as well as Bill Brown. Both of us have been back there on the stage, behind the stage, the fire escapes etc. You said this extremely dubious question: You don’t think a guy standing on the stage with the lights on with a bunch of cops literally pointing at him might’ve been a bit of a clue? What did Johnny Brewer say?Just before they came (Police), they turned the house lights on, and I looked out from the curtains and saw the man. Warren Commission Hearings, Volume VII (maryferrell.org) Johnny was peeking through the curtains, OK? He wasn't standing front stage in front of everyone with the cops, pointing out Oswald with the cops. You do recognize this, right Tom?????? Read on the link above. Would you like to correct yourself on this? or not? Ok Tom, the big question to you is this: Did Oswald murder Officer Tippit or not?

I have no idea. Depends on a lot of factors. All hypotheticals. Do you believe Oswald murdered officer Tippit?

The difference here with Brewer was he identified Oswald in the Texas and pointed him out to cops as the same man standing in the alcove of Hardy Shoes. Oswald murdered J.D. Tippit, no doubt about it.

David, I read this laughable article by Cairns. Seems he channeled DiEugenio for this nonsense, like the HSCA concluded it was a conspiracy. What Cairns conveniently left out of this junk piece was the HSCA concluded that Oswald fired the shots from the TSBD. One thing you can say about DiEugenio and his side-hustle K&K site, he's always been consistent on delivering laughable garbage, which he asks for donations after every fluff article he posts.

Have you ever contributed money to DiEugenio on his Kennedys and Kings website?

Here's another good example of Mr. DiEugenio's extreme serious lack of scholarship and accountability. He quotes a highly questionable source to continue his despicable vile grave dancing antics. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/covertaction-magazine-bias/ From media bias fact check: Overall, we rate CovertAction Magazine Left-Biased and Questionable based on the promotion of conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, propaganda, poor sourcing, lack of transparency, numerous false claims, and failed fact checks. (M. Huitsing 08/30/2023) Bottom line here, Mr. DiEugenio has served up more double whoppers than a Topeka, Kansas Burger King.

Couldn't agree with you more. Very well stated. BTW, the man Bernard Haire saw going out the back door of the Texas Theater, could have been Applin.

DiEugenio's introduction to Pease's RFK book: This book makes a quantum leap forward, in both the explication of the crime and the cover-up. Lisa Pease has found new evidence that is too abundant to list here. Some of it no one even knew existed. Some of it surprised even someone as jaded as myself. On one key item, she called me up at night and told me to come down to the library she was at to see it. It was so exculpatory of Sirhan that she thought it would soon disappear, and if so she needed someone to bear witness. I will not try to summarize the case presented here, but I will say this: if Sirhan ever got a new trial, this book could be used to set him free. I doubt a prosecutor would even bring a case once he examined its contents. Former California Attorney General and now Senator Kamala Harris would have been humiliated in court. Which explains why she resisted reopening the case. Pease, Lisa. A Lie Too Big to Fail: The Real History of the Assassination of Robert F. Kennedy (p. xxi). Feral House. Kindle Edition. Lisa Pease, who solved the RFK murder wrote: The few witnesses with a clear view of the subject and his gun said the gun was pointed straight at Kennedy’s face when the first shots went off, before Uecker grabbed the gunman. Perhaps MacArthur was as aware as Calkins had been of what “bits of paper” in the air indicated: that the suspect had been firing blanks, not bullets. Pease, Lisa. A Lie Too Big to Fail: The Real History of the Assassination of Robert F. Kennedy (p. 56). Feral House. Kindle Edition. The last explanation is the simplest, and here perhaps Occam’s Razor serves us the best. Maybe the reason the barrel was leaded is that none of the copper-jacketed bullets expended in the pantry had been fired from it. Credible witnesses saw Sirhan fire his gun in the pantry. But no witness “saw” him fire copper-jacketed bullets, or any bullets, for that matter. Bullets move too quickly to be seen with the naked eye. People saw a flame coming out of Sirhan’s gun and assumed that meant a bullet had exited. But Sirhan could have been firing blanks, i.e., slugless cartridges. The numerous witness reports of seeing a tongue of flame come from Sirhan’s gun muzzle support this notion, as bullets do not create much of a flash when fired, but blanks or slugless cartridges contain paper that flash-burns when the gun is fired, producing a long, highly visible flame. (Note: Pease is dead wrong, it's a muzzle blast) Pease, Lisa. A Lie Too Big to Fail: The Real History of the Assassination of Robert F. Kennedy (p. 238). Feral House. Kindle Edition. Knowing Sirhan was going to be firing blanks, other conspirators simply had to wait until Sirhan fired his first shot. Then, while everyone else in the pantry froze in shock and fear, assassins moved quickly to get the job done. This scenario fits all the known evidence. Sirhan was like a magician’s assistant, providing the distraction by firing blanks. All eyes went to his gun, leaving the actual assassins to do their job. The actual shooters could have used suppressors and kept their weapons well hidden, perhaps in rolled-up posters or under a newspaper or a busboy’s towel. Pease, Lisa. A Lie Too Big to Fail: The Real History of the Assassination of Robert F. Kennedy (p. 289). Feral House. Kindle Edition. There you have it; Lisa Pease makes the claim that Sirhan was firing blanks and did not murder RFK. DiEugenio puts his stamp of approval in this conspiracy peddling nonsense.

Had me thinking there for a minute, I know I put it in there. Regarding the wall where the Walker bullet went through (yes, the real Walker bullet CE573), it was a lath/plaster wall. If I recall right, Walker said it was 9" inches thick in his WC testimony. Technically you can call it masonry, but specifically it was metal lathing and plaster. That was typical of homes back in that era, before drywall sheeting.

Larry, do you really still believe that the FBI did a bullet switcheroo on the Walker Bullet?????? If you do, why did the FBI conclude they could not match that bullet slug to Oswald's Carcano to the exclusion of all other rifles????

Ms. Haverstick's imagination has gotten the better of her. I was amused how Morley went along with this nonsense, on his podcast, without doing basic research. Maybe he was just being polite and throwing out more conspiracy "red meat" to attract more paid subscribers to his Substack column with another "breaking conspiracy story". Geraldyn M. "Jerrie" Cobb, who was NASA's first woman astronaut candidate in the early 1960's, a pilot who learned to fly at age 12 (from her father) was from Oklahoma and at one time lived in Ponca City, previous to that she lived in Oklahoma City. She was the daughter of William H. Cobb, a former Air Force pilot who had a car dealership in Ponca City in 1960. "Jerrie" Cobb was 29 years old in 1960. Viola June Cobb, also from Ponca City was the daughter of Jasper E. Cobb. June Cobb who was older than "Jerrie", was 33 years old in 1960. They are clearly two different women. Viola June Cobb was of operational interest to the CIA in 1960. They (OS) investigated if there was a connection of identity of "Jerrie" and June Cobb. There was not. OFFICE OF SECURITY FILE ON COBB, VIOLA JUNE (maryferrell.org) To think Viola June Cobb was using a popular woman astronaut name as a "CIA cover" is entirely baseless and ludicrous. They did have similarities, but that's it.

Thanks Jonathan, I've never seen one either. Seems strange to me why he never attempted to write a review when he has H&L authors on his K&K website.

Can anyone point me to DiEugenio's book review of Harvey and Lee? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Surely he's done one???

Michael, let me understand your position here. Are you claiming that Oswald never bought that Klein's money order, never received the Carcano addressed to his post office box and never had possession of that rifle? Or are you just considering this theory as a possibility? I know you are quoting Anthony Summer's claim that he had doubts that Oswald had the money to buy the rifle. I read that passage to confirm, but his footnotes I couldn't find listed in his book. Perhaps you have the footnotes in yours. However, if you read through this WC document detailing Oswald's finances, you can clearly see he did have available money to buy that money order. Warren Commission Report (maryferrell.org) Additionally, he did pay off his State Department Loan ($200 loan from his brother) with money orders. All in the record. Also factor in members of the so-called Dallas White Russian community assisted the Oswalds with food and clothing. Bottom line, sure he had the available cash to buy that Klein's money order. You can scroll back in previous months to see as well.

Extremely unlikely. That makes zero sense. Most likely he caught the bus, got off on Ervay from Elm Street, went to the post office first, then either walked or caught a quick hop on the south bound Ervay bus near Browder Street and walked into work. Easier to fudge 15 minutes than 30 minutes. Will we ever know? Nope, not the first time Oswald lied in his life.

Sure, he was at work on March 12th. He got paid for it. I'm impressed with your mind reading skills on his boss confirming he showed up at 08:00 sharp. Nothing in the record says that.