Gedney and Woodrow Noble

[David Josephs]

2 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

So you can just request a free API key from NARA and get programmatic access to a database of RIFs and metadata that isn’t otherwise publicly available? NARA is (supposedly) working on digitizing the whole collection IAW Biden’s Dec. 2022 memo, but as far as I know the only currently available “database” of RIFs is the 2021 Excel spreadsheet.

Does anyone have a link? Part of my job involves integrating external APIs with AI so I’d love to tinker with this a bit. @Keyvan Shahrdar what is the response schema from the NARA API? Is it just the same fields in the Excel Spreadsheet in JSON? Is there like a .pdf url, or encoded .pdf, or something like that? I’m curious how you get to the actual content of the record since some of the Bard responses you posted look like it retrieved more than just metadata. 

Thanks Tom... the more in this the better I think.  I am leaving this to @Keyvan Shahrdar  

@Steve Thomas

Is this the result of the API search?

FYI - 
{ "total": 1, "results": [ { "objectFilename": "Warren Commission Document 2094", "description": "Transcript of an interview with Fletcher Prouty", "content": { "text": "Fletcher Prouty was interviewed by the Warren Commission on December 13, 1963. Prouty stated that he was a former Air Force colonel who had worked in the Office of Special Operations. Prouty stated that he had knowledge of the assassination plot against President Kennedy." }, "source": "Warren Commission", "dateCreated": "1963-12-13", "dateModified": "1963-12-13" } ] }

Edited July 17, 2023 by David Josephs

[Tom Gram]

4 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Thanks Tom... the more in this the better I think.  I am leaving this to @Keyvan Shahrdar  

@Steve Thomas

Is this the result of the API search?

FYI - 
{ "total": 1, "results": [ { "objectFilename": "Warren Commission Document 2094", "description": "Transcript of an interview with Fletcher Prouty", "content": { "text": "Fletcher Prouty was interviewed by the Warren Commission on December 13, 1963. Prouty stated that he was a former Air Force colonel who had worked in the Office of Special Operations. Prouty stated that he had knowledge of the assassination plot against President Kennedy." }, "source": "Warren Commission", "dateCreated": "1963-12-13", "dateModified": "1963-12-13" } ] }

Interesting. If that’s an actual response from the API it looks like NARA added a “text” field with a summary of the record. I don’t know how or why the hell they’d do that for the entire ARC, but I’ll reserve my speculation until I know a little bit more about this API. Thanks David. 

[David Josephs]

3 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

Interesting. If that’s an actual response from the API it looks like NARA added a “text” field with a summary of the record. I don’t know how or why the hell they’d do that for the entire ARC, but I’ll reserve my speculation until I know a little bit more about this API. Thanks David. 

When you put into a spreadsheet you have a "title" column with descriptive text.  Might be taken when they OCR the title page which usually has that info

Thank you for helping out.   I'd like to corroborate that the search API into this database returns that result... or if somehow BARD is involved... yet isn't BARD doing its thing AFTER it find the metadata, it doesn't just create metadata does it?

[David Josephs]

21 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

Interesting. If that’s an actual response from the API it looks like NARA added a “text” field with a summary of the record. I don’t know how or why the hell they’d do that for the entire ARC, but I’ll reserve my speculation until I know a little bit more about this API. Thanks David. 

https://www.archives.gov/files/citizen-archivist/images/09-05-2019-ocr.pdf

Currently, the Catalog’s new OCR engine is applied to records in either JPG or PDF format
added to the Catalog since June 2019. NARA is exploring how to retroactively process
records from before that point, but right now this feature applies to millions of pages!

@Keyvan Shahrdar  @Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

2 hours ago, David Josephs said:

This makes sense since the three in the WISE images are not the 3 with arrest reports... the 1st set were already in the boxcars, while the 2nd set moved along the RR tracks and were picked up later in the day.   

 

David,

Back in 2010, there was a Thread on the Forum called, The Three Tramps.

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/16268-the-three-tramps/page/2/

On page 2 of that thread, I asked a series of questions like, Where were you when you found out Kennedy had been assassinated? and What kind of railroad car were you in when you got arrested?

I looked the answers and saw how different they were.

Steve Thomas

[Adam Johnson]

1 hour ago, David Josephs said:

Thanks Tom... the more in this the better I think.  I am leaving this to @Keyvan Shahrdar  

@Steve Thomas

Is this the result of the API search?

FYI - 
{ "total": 1, "results": [ { "objectFilename": "Warren Commission Document 2094", "description": "Transcript of an interview with Fletcher Prouty", "content": { "text": "Fletcher Prouty was interviewed by the Warren Commission on December 13, 1963. Prouty stated that he was a former Air Force colonel who had worked in the Office of Special Operations. Prouty stated that he had knowledge of the assassination plot against President Kennedy." }, "source": "Warren Commission", "dateCreated": "1963-12-13", "dateModified": "1963-12-13" } ] }

Folks i have serious problem with this AI tracking of statements......point above the prouty information......it says Prouty was interviewed on December 13th 1963.....but:

"On December 13, 1963, Congress passed Senate Joint Resolution 137 (Public Law 88-202) authorizing the Commission to subpoena witnesses and obtain evidence concerning any matter relating to the investigation. The resolution also gave the Commission the power to compel the testimony of witnesses by granting immunity from prosecution to witnesses testifying under compulsion. The Commission, however, did not grant immunity to any witness during the investigation.

The Commission acted promptly to obtain a staff to meet its needs. J. Lee Rankin, former Solicitor General of the United States, was sworn in as general counsel for the Commission on December 16, 1963."

So prior to being given subpoena power or having a general council, Prouty was contact and asked to appear and give testimony? How would they get to prouty so quickly.....when was the commission members selected even finalised...whatvdate was their first meeting?

All this info coming from AI searches seems like a huge jumble of facts/dates and who said what....most of it seems debatable to me from what im seeing poted.

AJ

[Gerry Down]

4 minutes ago, Adam Johnson said:

Folks i have serious problem with this AI tracking of statements......point above the prouty information......it says Prouty was interviewed on December 13th 1963.....but:

"On December 13, 1963, Congress passed Senate Joint Resolution 137 (Public Law 88-202) authorizing the Commission to subpoena witnesses and obtain evidence concerning any matter relating to the investigation. The resolution also gave the Commission the power to compel the testimony of witnesses by granting immunity from prosecution to witnesses testifying under compulsion. The Commission, however, did not grant immunity to any witness during the investigation.

The Commission acted promptly to obtain a staff to meet its needs. J. Lee Rankin, former Solicitor General of the United States, was sworn in as general counsel for the Commission on December 16, 1963."

So prior to being given subpoena power or having a general council, Prouty was contact and asked to appear and give testimony? How would they get to prouty so quickly.....when was the commission members selected even finalised...whatvdate was their first meeting?

All this info coming from AI searches seems like a huge jumble of facts/dates and who said what....most of it seems debatable to me from what im seeing poted.

AJ

Yup. If Prouty was interviewed by the WC he would have mentioned it in his books and many interviews. This is just AI mixing it's data up.

[David Josephs]

7 minutes ago, Adam Johnson said:

Folks i have serious problem with this AI tracking of statements......point above the prouty information......it says Prouty was interviewed on December 13th 1963.....but:

"On December 13, 1963, Congress passed Senate Joint Resolution 137 (Public Law 88-202) authorizing the Commission to subpoena witnesses and obtain evidence concerning any matter relating to the investigation. The resolution also gave the Commission the power to compel the testimony of witnesses by granting immunity from prosecution to witnesses testifying under compulsion. The Commission, however, did not grant immunity to any witness during the investigation.

The Commission acted promptly to obtain a staff to meet its needs. J. Lee Rankin, former Solicitor General of the United States, was sworn in as general counsel for the Commission on December 16, 1963."

So prior to being given subpoena power or having a general council, Prouty was contact and asked to appear and give testimony? How would they get to prouty so quickly.....when was the commission members selected even finalised...whatvdate was their first meeting?

All this info coming from AI searches seems like a huge jumble of facts/dates and who said what....most of it seems debatable to me from what im seeing poted.

AJ

The "interview" between McCloy and Prouty was generated by Google's BARD based on finding metadata within the NARA database for Warren Commission documents that claims a record exists with this metadata:

{ "total": 1, "results": [ { "objectFilename": "Warren Commission Document 2094", "description": "Transcript of an interview with Fletcher Prouty", "content": { "text": "Fletcher Prouty was interviewed by the Warren Commission on December 13, 1963. Prouty stated that he was a former Air Force colonel who had worked in the Office of Special Operations. Prouty stated that he had knowledge of the assassination plot against President Kennedy." }, "source": "Warren Commission", "dateCreated": "1963-12-13", "dateModified": "1963-12-13" } ] }

We have 2 things going on...  BARD guesses at what the document says... which I mistakenly understood at the time as being within the inaccessible document - so the test of the interview is BARD GENERATED... but the information from the above SEARCH API results

HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BARD @Matt Allison

And we will make sure that BARD is completely removed from this process of searching the NARA database - completely.

[David Josephs]

30 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

David,

Back in 2010, there was a Thread on the Forum called, The Three Tramps.

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/16268-the-three-tramps/page/2/

On page 2 of that thread, I asked a series of questions like, Where were you when you found out Kennedy had been assassinated? and What kind of railroad car were you in when you got arrested?

I looked the answers and saw how different they were.

Steve Thomas

Thanks! Old things are new again when seen from a diff POV. 

So we are aware that each of the 3 arrests reports has ROBBERY on the "CHARGE" line, despite it being impossible they were involved in a Robbery

in the linked thread: you write:  Wise on a robbery call at the far end of south Dallas when the dispatcher told #71 to go Code 3 to the TSBD and report to the supervisor.
We do not know if he has 3 suspects, or why ROBBERY would be added to their arrest reports given the description of how they were removed from the train, and when.

Arrest time 4:00pm yet the men from the trains were arrest almost immediately after the shooting.

How many times have we seen 2 events combined into one batch of evidence...  it runs rampant all thru the evidence.. I've been writing about it for years.

 

 

[Steve Thomas]

4 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Thanks! Old things are new again when seen from a diff POV. 

So we are aware that each of the 3 arrests reports has ROBBERY on the "CHARGE" line, despite it being impossible they were involved in a Robbery

in the linked thread: you write:  Wise on a robbery call at the far end of south Dallas when the dispatcher told #71 to go Code 3 to the TSBD and report to the supervisor.
We do not know if he has 3 suspects, or why ROBBERY would be added to their arrest reports given the description of how they were removed from the train, and when.

David,

I wouldn't attach too much importance to the reason for holding the men.

I think it was the practice of the 1963's DPD era to slap any old charge on the booking sheet: Vagrancy, Burglary, Robbery, Suspicion of Murder... anything to justify picking a suspect up and holding him for a while.

Look at the arrest report for Daniel Wayne Douglas.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190290/?q="Daniel Wayne Douglas"

Burglary, Auto Theft, Forgery,  and Lt. Baker of Homicide and Robbery wanted him held for Investigation of Murder.

Steve Thomas

[David Josephs]

 @Matt Allison Freaking amazing right Matt? Look down below at the linked 2005 post where Robin shares a letter that suggests there are FBI interviews with these men over the ass'n weekend.   You still looking for support for your "collage"?

 

@Steve Thomas. I can understand that...  

Yet these three men had no record and were unknown to the DPD whereas Daniel supposedly mentioned these crimes himself.  Man you been here a long time as Robin mentions your comments in the link below.  I posted the text of the post as well...

Gotta see if the review board did anything about these questions...

 

Marina Oswald Porter's Letter

to the ARRB -- April 1996

Mr. John Tunheim, Chairman

JFK Assassination Records Review Board

600 E Street, NW, Second Floor

Washington, DC 20530

Dear Mr. Tunheim:

I am writing to you regarding the release of still classified documents related to the assassination of President Kennedy, and to my former husband, Lee Harvey Oswald. Specifically, I am writing to ask about documents I have learned of from a recent book and from a story in the Washington Post by the authors of the same book (as well as other documents they have described to me). The book reviews Dallas police, FBI, and CIA files released since 1992, and places them in the context of previously known information. I would like to know what the Review Board is doing to obtain the following:

1. The Dallas field office and headquarters FBI reports on the arrests of Donnell D. Whitter and Lawrence R. Miller in Dallas on November 18, 1963 with a carload of stolen U.S. army weapons. I believe that Lee Oswald was the FBI informant who made these arrests possible. I would also like to know what your board has done to obtain the reports of t he U.S. Marshal and the U.S. Army on the same arrests, and the burglary these men were suspected of.

2. the records of the FBI interrogations of John Franklin Elrod, John Forrester Gedney and Harold Doyle (the latter men were previously known as two of the "three tramps") in the Dallas jail November 22-24, 1963. All of these men have stated that they were interrogated during that time by the FBI.

3. The official explanation of why the arrest records for Mr. Elrod, Mr. Gedney, and Mr. Doyle, as well as for Daniel Wayne Douglas and Gus Abrams were placed "under federal seal" in the Dallas Police Records Division for 26 years as described by Dallas City Archives supervisor Laura McGhee to the FBI in 1992.

[Steve Thomas]

42 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

 

@Steve Thomas. I can understand that...    Man you been here a long time as Robin mentions your comments in the link below. 

 

 

David 

Yes. I think I joined the Forun in 2004, shortly after it started. It's been almost 20 years now.

Older, but not necessarily smarter.

😃

Steve

[David Josephs]

1 minute ago, Steve Thomas said:

David 

Yes. I think I joined the Forun in 2004, shortly after it started. It's been almost 20 years now.

Older, but not necessarily smarter.

😃

Steve

 

[Ron Bulman]

5 hours ago, David Josephs said:

This makes sense since the three in the WISE images are not the 3 with arrest reports... the 1st set were already in the boxcars, while the 2nd set moved along the RR tracks and were picked up later in the day.   

But why the parade?  why Lansdale is allowed to walk to & past them?  With the 2 sets of tramps (like all the dualities), the different DPD personnel can all be telling the truth while conflicting at the same time.

https://theoswaldcode.com/index2.htm.  This shows the arrest reports and the report of another DPD officer who talks about the later arrival of the three men brought to Decker by Wise.  Sheriff Harold Elkins claims though, that he takes the three DP tramps to Fritz and the City Jail after WISE drops them off.

I'd think that was to tie the two different sets together.  

And remember Bill Middle says he was not at work on the 22nd at all. FWIW

 

David, thank you very much for this link.  I thought this was lost and gone forever.  I've posted about this several time over the years wondering if people thought I was nuts because I could never find it for proof of what I'd once read.

In 2014 before The Oswald Code by A J Weberman (don't quit reading because of the author's name, keep reading in spite of it, I'll get to him) I found a website promoting it.  The article you posted was on it.  It was not the same current website on which it can now be found, again.

I ordered the book primarily for the article thinking the book would expound on the article and I would have it in writing.  I was curious about the other stuff, wary about his reliance on Hemming in part of the article.  The book had virtually nothing relating to the article nor it, itself.  It also did not have a table of contents, an index, end notes, much less a bibliography.  A bunch of jumbled junk with pictures of things he said were there that I didn't see.  P.O.'d, I went back to the website to print the article.  It was gone.  The old website had a video of Weberman promoting the book which is not on the new one that I saw.  I'll link that later from a Doug Caddy post at the time.

I looked for the article online several times over the following 2-3 years finally giving up.  After reading about Garbology, Dylanology, Weberman stalking Dylan and getting his ass kicked by him and more.

The article to me seems well documented and convincing that two sets of tramps were arrested in two different locations an hour or two apart.  To give credit where it's maybe due Weberman did work for Richard Schweiker and Henry Gonzales in the HSCA early days and reportedly associated with Gaeton Fonzi.

I think the link along with a summary for those who won't click on it should go on the Three Tramps thread which I'll do shortly.  I didn't find the book still available on amazon.

The Oswald Code: The Secrets of Oswald's Address Book - Alan Weberman - Google Books

The book was updated in 2018.  IDK what may be different.  The website has been as well at some point, with "New Information".

THE OSWALD CODE

Edited July 18, 2023 by Ron Bulman

[David Josephs]

8 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

The article to me seems well documented and convincing that two sets of tramps were arrested in two different locations an hour or two apart.  To give credit where it's maybe due Weberman did work for Richard Schweiker and Henry Gonzales in the HSCA early days and reportedly associated with Gaeton Fonzi.

I think the link along with a summary for those who won't click on it should go on the Three Tramps thread which I'll do shortly.  I didn't find the book still available on amazon.

 

18 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

David, thank you very much for this link.

Most welcome my friend

I have all of WEBERMAN's nodules saved.  I've just always been very skeptical about Hemming as a source, while I know that is not the entirety of his work.

https://stevecameronproductions.com/bookstore/ols/products/the-oswald-code-the-secrets-of-oswalds-address-book-by-alan-j-weberman-condition-used---us-shipping-only?fbclid=IwAR12JmFBHMqYYbN1wwNFQKGbWfS39bhXh_reFPcFujqC_2SsyPKH6J_BKZ0

Says only 1 left for $25 - I'm not clicking thru

https://www.biblio.com/book/oswald-code-secrets-oswalds-address-book/d/1486048695?aid=frg. This one is $150 - $200