Michael Paine

[Vitali Zhuk]

(0) Let's look at the weak points you identified in my theory that Walker believed RFK sent LHO to kill him on 10 April 1963.

Aa. I answer that when it comes to a personal, life-or-death matter, i.e. Walker believing that RFK was out to kill him, things are different than simply discussing assassination in back room committees.

B. You ask, Vitali, why Walker would assume LHO was used by RFK?

I answer that Walker wrote this in many places. Within 18 hours of the JFK murder, Walker wrote to a Neo-Nazi newspaper in Germany and boasted that Oswald had also been his shooter on 10 April 1963.

This article is still found in his personal papers today:

http://www.pet880.com/images/19631129_Deutsche_NZ.jpg

This is also from his personal papers:

http://www.pet880.com/images/19920119_EAW_Oswald_arrested.pdf

2. You say, Vitali, that any Communist activity is a warning flag.

2a. Jim Garrison proved conclusively that Lee Harvey Oswald was working with Guy Banister in New Orleans in the summer of 1963, on Guy Banister's long-term FPCC project. Guy Banister was also an ultra-right-wing guy, a member of the JBS. The fact that Lee Harvey Oswald was working with Guy Banister for the entire summer of 1963 tells more about the alleged "Communist activity" of Lee Harvey Oswald than a hundred books.

2.1. You say Vitali, that if there was a Foreign Conspiracy to kill JFK, that the Warren Commission would have wanted to cover it up, too.

2.1a. I reply that the USA was ready to go to war in 1963, if we had any provocation. If US Intelligence had learned that the USSR/Cuba had killed JFK, the USA would have invaded Cuba within days. I'm convinced.

But what the WC would never do was risk a Civil War inside the USA. A Civil War could have resulted from the murder of JFK, who was so beloved by the majority. A Civil War in the middle of a Cold War could easily lead to WW3 and nuclear war. So, it was the Civil War that the WC wanted to prevent.

The report seems to have criticized LBJ, but without accusing LBJ of anything. Was this sedition? No, it was one rich man's personal research regarding his brother; nothing came of it.

2.2. IMHO, the Truth will one day win -- and the FBI, the CIA and LBJ will be exonerated from wrong-doing in the JFK murder. The reason we have Top Secrecy in the JFK murder to this very day, is exactly for the reasons that Earl Warren, LBJ and J. Edgar Hoover stated -- NATIONAL SECURITY.

The reason for that change, IMHO, is that the USSR officially fell in 1990. So, instead of 75 years, the JFK Truth will be revealed in only 53 years. The reason for the Secrecy remains the same: National Security. IMHO, it will be a major shock to many Americans to learn that Edwin Walker and the John Birch Society played a major role in the murder of JFK.

Paul, I'm really appreciate you deep answer. Your theory becomes more clear. I have some questions to discuss.

0B. In less than 2 hours after shooting LHO was in police on 22 Nov. In less than 3 hours after shooting LHO was in police on 10 Apr. He always had time to. Was it an order of RFK to release LHO? Was it really somebody disturbed RFK early in the morning on 11 Apr to make such order?

0Ba. In 1963 Walker believed RFK stopped investigation. But Walker didn't know who was with LHO on 10 Apr.

Why Walker decided to use LHO when he suspected CIA to be involved? That was stupid risk. Maybe Walker used LHO for patsy role only.

2a. Maybe Banister did unofficial job for FBI -- he gathered information from all political movements: ultra-right and left. Maybe FBI was searching for person with appropriate CV and LHO with smoking gun was good for communist provoker.

2.1a. If US Intelligence discovered the right-wing conspiracy, there must be a response. Where was the response? It could not be left without consequences. I think that Civil war with ultra-right wing who assassinated JFK that Civil war had to be extremely short without of WW3 danger.

2.1aa. It was one rich man's (RFK) personal research regarding his brother, but report was received by almost President. Who wanted vendetta?

11. Paul, what do you think about the role of Mrs. Paine? Was it all occasional?

Edited June 24, 2015 by Vitali Zhuk

[Paul Trejo]

Paul, I really appreciate your deep answer. Your theory becomes more clear. I have some questions to discuss.

0B. In less than 2 hours after shooting LHO was in police on 22 Nov. In less than 3 hours after shooting LHO was in police on 10 Apr. He always had time to. Was it an order of RFK to release LHO? Was it really somebody disturbed RFK early in the morning on 11 Apr to make such order?

0Ba. In 1963 Walker believed RFK stopped investigation. But Walker didn't know who was with LHO on 10 Apr.

Why Walker decided to use LHO when he suspected CIA to be involved? That was stupid risk. Maybe Walker used LHO for patsy role only.

2a. Maybe Banister did unofficial job for FBI -- he gathered information from all political movements: ultra-right and left. Maybe FBI was searching for person with appropriate CV and LHO with smoking gun was good for communist provoker.

2.1a. If US Intelligence discovered the right-wing conspiracy, there must be a response. Where was the response? It could not be left without consequences. I think that Civil war with ultra-right wing who assassinated JFK that Civil war had to be extremely short without of WW3 danger.

2.1aa. It was one rich man's (RFK) personal research regarding his brother, but report was received by almost President. Who wanted vendetta?

11. Paul, what do you think about the role of Mrs. Paine? Was it all occasional?

OK, Vitali, you have good questions. Let's see if I can answer well.

(0B) According to Ex-General Walker, less than 3 hours after the Walker shooting, Lee Harvey Oswald was in police custody. Walker believed that RFK sent Oswald to kill him, and that RFK called the Dallas police at midnight to order the release of Oswald. You ask for my explanation.

(0B-ans) My answer is that Walker was paranoid, and RFK never sent Oswald to kill Walker. Walker believed this with all his heart, but it was a mistake. RFK and JFK had done enough to discredit Edwin Walker to the majority of Americans by sending him to an insane asylum, even for only three nights. Most Americans thought Walker was insane after that.

Walker was acquitted by a Mississippi Grand Jury. We have the transcripts from the Grand Jury in his personal papers (and they are available noplace else). In those transcripts we learn that Edwin Walker, a former US General, was not above lying to free himself. He claimed that he was at Ole Miss only to keep the peace. The Grand Jury believed him.

Then Walker and his lawyers went around suing all US newspapers who printed the truth about him starting the Ole Miss riots. (They won only 10% of their cases, but those winnings totalled $3 million -- all on appeal.) Also, Walker make a coast-to-coast "Midnight Ride" speaking tour with racist Reverend Billy James Hargis, from Miami to Los Angeles, accusing JFK, RFK, the NAACP, the United Nations and even the NCC (National Council of Churches) of being Communist.

Anyway -- my point is that RFK had nothing to do with Lee Harvey Oswald's shooting at Edwin Walker. (Actually, I've read that RFK knew of Lee Harvey Oswald as a member of his own group, Operation Mongoose, in which Guy Banister also played a role.)

(0B-ans2) Also, I don't believe that the Dallas Police picked up Lee Harvey Oswald on the night of the Walker shooting. Although the shooting occurred at about 9pm, and Oswald didn't arrive at home until around midnight, there are too many other ways to account for the missing 3 hours. I believe that Oswald had confederates in the Walker shooting, and that his confederates had their own weapons, and at least one car. Also, they had a place to stay, and it is likely that Oswald hung out with them for 3 hours or so.

What really happened, IMHO, is told very well by Dick Russell in his 1993 book, The Man Who Knew Too Much, which says that George De Mohrenschildt (the real Walker-hater, who accidentally sent Oswald to kill Walker) told his friends, Mr. and Mrs. Igor Voshinin of Dallas on Easter Sunday 1963, that he and his wife Jeanne strongly suspected that Lee Harvey Oswald had been the shooter at Walker only four days before. George DM refused to go to the police, so Mrs. Voshinin called the FBI after George left their house, and told the FBI everything George said.

In my theory, the FBI was obliged to call Edwin Walker to warn him that Oswald was possibly his shooter, so beware. Yet the FBI didn't arrest Oswald, because they only had a second-hand rumor to go on. Still, Walker was outraged that the FBI would get this information about Oswald, AND REFUSE TO ARREST OSWALD OR PRESS CHARGES.

Therefore, in the mind of Edwin Walker, the FBI and DPD "let Oswald go". Actually, they merely refused to arrest Oswald based on rumors. In Walker's paranoid mind, it was RFK that tried to kill him using Oswald, and it was RFK that "let Oswald go." That is why we read this in perhaps a dozen personal papers by Edwin Walker.

(0Ba) You ask, Vitali, why Walker decided to suspect LHO when he already suspected the CIA to be involved? Wasn't that too risky? Didn't Walker only decide to use Oswald as a patsy, aside from the Walker shooting?

(OBa-ans) I answer that Walker was paranoid to the extent that he was the only US General to resign from the US Army in the 20th century. In doing this, Walker forfeited his 30-year Army Pension. It was a very stupid thing to do, IMHO. But it makes sense for a paranoid person.

My point is that Walker believed that the Pentagon was also Communist. He wanted nothing further to do with the Pentagon -- or with the CIA. For Walker, even the CIA was Communist. The JBS already preached that the Council on Foreign Relations was Communist, and they named among its Communist members, Allen Dulles, John Foster Dulles, Dwight Eisenhower and Milton Eisenhower. All these men were Communists, in the imagination of Edwin Walker and the John Birch Society.

So, it was no stretch for Walker to accuse the CIA of conspiracy, and to also accuse Lee Harvey Oswald (and RFK) of the same conspiracy. It was *all* a Communist Plot, according to Edwin Walker and the JBS.

(2a) You ask, Vitali, if perhaps Banister was really working for the FBI in his attacks on the FPCC and Cuba. Well -- it's not that simple, but of course the FBI didn't try to stop Guy Banister -- until JFK passed the Neutrality Act with regard to Cuba.

After that point, the FBI went around the nation closing down paramilitary training camps for Cubans planning to raid Cuba, and perhaps plan another invasion. Guy Banister, however, resisted that, and kept his own paramilitary training camps moving.

Guy Banister opposed the FBI in this. It is possible that the CIA supported Guy Banister in this through David Atlee Phillips -- because their movements could be kept secret from many Government agencies. But the FBI could no longer support Cuba Raid groups in the USA -- so they clashed with Guy Banister.

There were many provocateur agents in the USA at that time -- and most of them were concentrating on Cuba as their target. IMHO, Lee Harvey Oswald was a provocateur working for Guy Banister to try to sneak into Cuba, to support a murder plot against Castro. Very likely this was distantly related to the old 'Operation Mongoose' plot. Here, IMHO, was the plan:

(i) Fidel Castro liked the support Cuba was getting from the FPCC, so he had a standing rule -- all FPCC Directors could travel to Cuba through Mexico City with no waiting;

(ii) Guy Banister chose to create a Fake FPCC in New Orleans, with a Fake Director, namely, Lee Harvey Oswald,and would show this status in jail records, newspapers, radio and television;

(iii) With a solid resumé of "proof" that he was a Director of an FPCC in New Orleans, Oswald went to Mexico City to get "instant passage" into Cuba.

But the USSR and Cuban Embassy officials didn't have Oswald on their list -- and his resumé of newspaper clippings was an amateur production. So, they just laughed at him.

IMHO, if Oswald had succeeded in getting to Cuba for the Kill-Fidel plot, then he would have been forgiven for his crime of shooting at Edwin Walker. But, since he failed, he would have to return to Dallas, and await further instructions.

(2.1a) You ask, Vitali, if US Intelligence discovered the right-wing conspiracy, then where was the response? Without the threat of WW3, such a Civil War would have been short.

(2.1a-ans) I answer that there was a response, but it was not made public. When the FBI realized the tiny scope of the JFK murder plot, they realized they could control it easily. However, when they thought of the riots that could occur in the USA because of the rightist murder of JFK, and when they thought of the resistance that the Minutemen could raise because of their stockpile of military weapons, the FBI and LBJ decided that they would not make any of it public.

The killers of JFK (IMHO) included this rabble: Loran Hall, Gerry Patrick Hemming, Frank Sturgis, Fred Crisman, Tom Beckham, Larry Howard, Lee Harvey Oswald (as patsy), Roscoe White and possibly J.D. Tippit. (There were probably Cuban Exiles among them, but they all played subordinate roles). David Morales and Howard Hunt also played supporting roles. Other DPD officials involved probably included Jesse Curry (the lead car driver) and Will Fritz. All of these elements were coordinated by Ex-General Edwin Walker.

The FBI sized all these players up, and realized that they weren't much of an army. They would all be punished individually. (For example, after winning $3 million in lawsuits from US newspapers, Earl Warren ensured that Edwin Walker would never receive a penny of it.)

(2.1aa) You ask, Vitali, if RFK wanted revenge for the JFK murder.

(2.1aa-ans) IMHO, RFK did not seek revenge, instead, he realized that he was partly to blame for JFK's murder. Lamar Waldron (Ultimate Sacrifice, 2005) showed RFK as personally responsible for Operation Mongoose, and he even called Guy Banister's offices from time to time, to ensure all was going well. RFK probably saw Lee Harvey Oswald's name on the list of personnel that Guy Banister would send. RFK knew from Hoover (IMHO) that Guy Banister and Edwin Walker were behind the JFK Kill plot, and RFK was ashamed of the role he personally played in Operation Mongoose. RFK fought Jim Garrison tooth and nail (through Walter Sheridan and NBC) to prevent the truth from coming out, because the truth could also hurt RFK. RFK also refused to show the public the brain of JFK (which would have shown multiple bullet wounds, and conclusively prove a conspiracy). RFK knew there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, and like Hoover, LBJ, Dulles and Warren, RFK knew exactly who killed JFK. But he also realized that the Truth would probably cause riots in the USA, so he also chose to keep his secret. Finally, notice that RFK never openly opposed the Warren Report.

(11) You ask, Vitali, about my opinion about Ruth Paine. Was her role incidental?

(11-ans) I answer, Vitali, that Ruth Paine, IMHO, was ignorant of the plot to kill JFK, but she was guilty in the plot to kill Edwin Walker. Even today, Ruth Paine knows more about the Edwin Walker plot than she ever told anybody, IMHO.

Ruth Paine did not get Oswald the job at the TSBD, but one of the women in her social circle did that -- and Ruth Paine offered her assistance as usual.

IMHO, one of the women in Ruth Paine's social circle belonged to the Friends of Walker, which was a popular group in Dallas in those days.

IMHO, the plot to kill JFK was controlled by Edwin Walker since Easter Sunday 1963, and it included confederates from Interpen, from Guy Banister's operation, from Bay of Pigs survivors, but also from confederates inside Military Intelligence and the DPD.

Ruth Paine was innocent of most of the JFK Plot, except where it implies Edwin Walker and his vow of revenge against JFK-RFK-Oswald. Ruth Paine encouraged Lee Harvey Oswald to hate Ex-General Edwin Walker, and she must bear that guilt to the pearly gates.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited June 26, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Vitali Zhuk]

Paul, thank you for detail argumentation. I want to highlight and discuss some reasonings in your answer.

0B. I also don't believe that the Dallas Police picked up Lee Harvey Oswald on the night of the Walker shooting. Probability is miserable. The Story with Lieutenant was not invented or fantasized by Walker. Probability is miserable too. Because Story that Walker heard was not only about LHO was a suspect and FBI let LHO go. The Story had details about LHO's releasing in early morning by FBI. And Walker believed because he was paranoid. But FBI and DPD did not release LHO in the morning and could not tell Walker about this.

0B(result 1). Police and FBI did not tell Walker that Story. Another party did. That was provocation.

0B(result 1a). The episode with Voshinin do not explain how Walker learned about LHO releasing.

0Ba. Walker suspected that LHO was a CIA/FBI agent. How was Walker confident that he could use and manipulate an CIA/FBI agent successfully? That had to be a very difficult task. That was a risk of CIA/FBI reveal Walker's conspiracy.

0Ba(result 2). Probability LHO was used by Walker is not high.

2.1a. If main conspirator (Walker in you theory) was not punished therefore he would become an example for others or he would try again. FBI had to eliminate the seat of the trouble but did not do this. Doubtfully all of JFK admirers in FBI/CIA preferred to be idle. In the same time CIA continued investigation of re-defectors. Also take into account 0B(result 1) and 0Ba(result 2).

2.1a(result 3). Probably Walker was not the main conspirator. Maybe Walker was not the conspirator. Maybe Walker played a passive role in conspiracy.

These are my assumptions.

11. You confirmed my suspicions about Ruth Paine and her story. At least she was innocent transmission point. Question about Wesley Frazier hiring remains.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Vitali Zhuk

[David Andrews]

Why were the Oswalds part of the Paine household if at least one of the Paines were not involved in the assassination plot? What other use did the Paines have for Marina or Lee?

[Paul Brancato]

Paul - please stop conflating your theory with fact. I insist. It is shameless the way you keep saying Walker knew that Oswald shot at him, and that RFK had Oswald released on April 11. Walker later stated that, but he never mentioned Oswald in writing to our knowledge until after Nov 22. You cannot say that we don't know that because some of Walker's papers are being hidden and they might include such earlier mention of Oswald. Speculation is fine, but call it speculation and stop please with your assertion as fact something which is speculation. It is unfair to argue that way on this forum, DISRESPECFUL in fact of you to do so despite being constantly reminded of that.

Sure, Walker should have been investigated then, and still should now. But do you think that you are helping that with your approach?

I agree with the gentleman who is engaging with you on this issue that your explanation of Hoover's coverup being in order to avert civil war is preposterous. Vitale is right - had the US government chosen to go after the racist right, assuming they were responsible for JFK's death, it would have been swatting a flea. They could still do it by the way, and should have done it a long time ago. What you cannot seem to see is that Hoover and Dulles had much in common with the far right, were in fact far rightists themselves. Hoover was a noted and provable racist, and Dulles a nazi sympathizer. History shows this clearly. You claim that Hoover and Dulles were heroes. That prejudice on your part renders you blind to their motivations.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Paul Brancato

[Glenn Nall]

Paul T - I'm appreciating some of the helpful, knowledgeable information that you and Vitali are providing in this thread - and it takes some effort keeping it separate from your theory. As I was reading about the many thousands of ways several hundred people have fabricated or altered thousands of Zapruder Films (maybe that's an exaggeration), it dawned on me the choreography necessary to have pulled this off - if in fact it WAS pulled off - beforehand.

Just as a matter of curiosity, if you say that the Cover-Up was completely separate from the Assassination itself, do you or do you not then believe that an alteration of any kind was done?

[Paul Trejo]

Paul T - I'm appreciating some of the helpful, knowledgeable information that you and Vitali are providing in this thread - and it takes some effort keeping it separate from your theory. As I was reading about the many thousands of ways several hundred people have fabricated or altered thousands of Zapruder Films (maybe that's an exaggeration), it dawned on me the choreography necessary to have pulled this off - if in fact it WAS pulled off - beforehand.

Just as a matter of curiosity, if you say that the Cover-Up was completely separate from the Assassination itself, do you or do you not then believe that an alteration of any kind was done?

Well, Glenn, I want to be sure I understand your question. When you say, "alteration," I will presume for now that you are referring to an "alteration" of the corpse of JFK, someplace between Parkland Hospital and Bethesda Hospital, am I right?

If so, then I will say that I agree with David Lifton 100% on this issue -- the corpse of JFK was clearly "altered" on the night of 11/22/1963, in order to Cover-up the fact that more than one shooter was involved in the JFK murder.

Now, one may ask -- doesn't that prove that the JFK Cover-up was related to the JFK-Kill plot, because it happened much too quickly after the murder?

My answer is NO! The JFK Cover-up plot began approximately 3pm CST on 11/22/1963, when J. Edgar Hoover realized that: (1) LHO was not a Communist; and (2) LHO was not a leader of the FPCC. Hoover told this to RFK at that time.

This means that Hoover knew a LOT about Lee Harvey Oswald, and he knew that the story coming out of Dallas -- that this was a plot by the FPCC Communists -- was a Big Lie. Hoover was also smart enough to figure out the PURPOSE of this Big Lie -- to blame Cuba for the JFK murder, so that the USA would go to war against Cuba.

In order for Hoover to defeat the Big Lie, he came up with his own Big Lie -- namely, the "Lone Nut" theory.

There HAD to be one and only one shooter, and he had to shoot only from the rear. That was decided before the work-day of 11/22/1963 was over. We have enough FBI documents today to prove that point.

That means that the autopsy evidence would become crucial on the night of 11/22/1963. The wounds to JFK's head and brain would show conclusively that not one bullet -- but TWO BULLETS had struck JFK in the head -- one from behind, and another one, a split second later, from the front.

The one from behind was a FMJ bullet, and the one from in front was a FRANGIBLE (exploding) bullet. There were fragments from TWO bullets in JFK's head, and the shards from the exploding bullet were everywhere in the brain.

When it was realized that no amount of Surgery could remove all the bullet shards from the brain, or disguise the fact that multiple shots destroyed JFK's brain -- even after "alteration" -- the decision was made simply to hide JFK's brain for 75 years.

If we somehow obtained JFK's brain today, we would see evidence of multiple wounds -- not one. So, that is why JFK's brain went "missing" and why the X-rays were falsified, and the photographs retouched, and ultimately only hand-drawings of JFK's wounds were submitted to the Warren Commission.

My point is that medical "alteration" is no proof that the Cover-up was related to the JFK murder.

Actually, the JFK Killers did not CARE if we found multiple bullets in JFK's brain. The JFK Killers did not CARE if we knew there were multiple shooters. Just as long as we could believe that LHO was a COMMUNIST -- then it would have been clear that a GROUP of COMMUNISTS had killed JFK.

So, the "Lone Nut" theory was of no use to the JFK Killers. It was only of use to the US Government. That's my point. I hope this is now clear.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 26, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Glenn Nall]

wow - I'm glad I didn't ask anything complex!!

i wasn't clear > "As I was reading about the many thousands of ways several hundred people have fabricated or altered thousands of Zapruder Films (maybe that's an exaggeration), it dawned on me the choreography necessary to have pulled this off. "

"Pulled this off", meaning the alteration of the Zapruder film, not the body - i think it's pretty obvious that the wounds themselves were altered. Probably had to be on the plane - but i'm just asking your opinion on the control of the Zapruder film.

Mark Twain advised, in the way of successful writing, to "eschew surplusage." Perhaps I should try that...

[Glenn Nall]

Please, if you don't mind my saying so, Paul; this is the issue I have with your presentation, as the other Paul pointed out:

"The one from behind was a FMJ bullet, and the one from in front was a FRANGIBLE (exploding) bullet. There were fragments from TWO bullets in JFK's head, and the shards from the exploding bullet were everywhere in the brain.

When it was realized that no amount of Surgery could remove all the bullet shards from the brain, or disguise the fact that multiple shots destroyed JFK's brain -- even after "alteration" -- the decision was made simply to hide JFK's brain for 75 years."

I'm no novice at this thing, even though I have nowhere near the experience and knowledge that most of you have - I HAVE been intermittently immersed in it for more than 30 years. If I were inexperienced, I'd hear that statement as a given, as if this is factually based common knowledge, when it is not really an item that has been proven and accepted by the CTers en masse. And I think in that way a person does a disservice to a "newbie" who's genuinely trying to sort out the factual from the theoretical.

Now I happen to agree with you in the likelihood that this is what happened, as far as the head wounds go - but I still see it as a high likelihood in the absence of concrete proof. And I think I owe it to my few potential readers to present it as it is - a probability, IMO, and not a fact. This is just me personally, but I'd hate for anyone to think that I think I've got it all figured out over the intellects of everyone else in my little circle.

But that's just me.

No offense. I value your opinions, even the ones I disagree with.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Glenn Nall

[Paul Trejo]

Please, if you don't mind my saying so, Paul; this is the issue I have with your presentation, as the other Paul pointed out:

"The one from behind was a FMJ bullet, and the one from in front was a FRANGIBLE (exploding) bullet. There were fragments from TWO bullets in JFK's head, and the shards from the exploding bullet were everywhere in the brain.

When it was realized that no amount of Surgery could remove all the bullet shards from the brain, or disguise the fact that multiple shots destroyed JFK's brain -- even after "alteration" -- the decision was made simply to hide JFK's brain for 75 years."

I'm no novice at this thing, even though I have nowhere near the experience and knowledge that most of you have - I HAVE been intermittently immersed in it for more than 30 years. If I were inexperienced, I'd hear that statement as a given, as if this is factually based common knowledge, when it is not really an item that has been proven and accepted by the CTers en masse. And I think in that way a person does a disservice to a "newbie" who's genuinely trying to sort out the factual from the theoretical.

Now I happen to agree with you in the likelihood that this is what happened, as far as the head wounds go - but I still see it as a high likelihood in the absence of concrete proof. And I think I owe it to my few potential readers to present it as it is - a probability, IMO, and not a fact. This is just me personally, but I'd hate for anyone to think that I think I've got it all figured out over the intellects of everyone else in my little circle.

But that's just me.

No offense. I value your opinions, even the ones I disagree with.

Well, Glenn, actually I include the symbol, IMHO (In My Humble Opinion), so many times in almost all of my writings, that I presume that people understand that I am ALWAYS giving my MINORITY opinion about the JFK murder.

I have not yet met one single person since joining the FORUM in 2011 who agrees with my THEORY that Edwin Walker killed JFK.

I repeat that it is only a THEORY so often, that I presume people realize that. NEVER have I ever claimed to have proof for my THEORY. Just a lot of bits of evidence that I surmise.

It's certainly not commonly accepted that there were TWO SHOTS to JFK's head -- however, I believe this fully because there is no other logical explanation for hiding JFK's brain for 50 years.

My THEORY is that the "Lone Nut" scenario FULLY EXPLAINS ALL WARREN COMMISSION FALSIFICATION OF DATA. Without exception.

Since I've seen no exception to that rule, IMHO, the "Lone Nut" scenario also explains the hiding of JFK's brain.

That's why I propose the two-head-bullets theory. It also fits a lot of bits of evidence here and there.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 25, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Why were the Oswalds part of the Paine household if at least one of the Paines were not involved in the assassination plot? What other use did the Paines have for Marina or Lee?

Well, David, IMHO the participation of the Paine's in Oswald's life was entirely conditioned by George De Mohrenschildt. This had nothing to do with the murder of JFK, and everything to do with Oswald's shooting at Ex-General Walker.

Neither Michael nor Ruth Paine played any role in the JFK murder -- except they that they helped to rattle the "wasp nest" that was Ex-General Edwin Walker in Dallas. By shocking Edwin Walker into action to murder JFK, the Paine's *accidentally* and *indirectly* played a role in the JFK murder.

I believe they know that, too. I believe that to this very day the Paine's guilt never leaves their consciousness for one single minute. What a burden to bear.

I only wish they would step up and CONFESS EVERYTHING THEY KNOW ABOUT EDWIN WALKER before they leave this dimension.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 25, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Glenn Nall]

as i said, i happen to agree with you. you don't have to sell me on that. even on the fragmenting bullet... it was simply the way that sentence was worded. that's all.

i'm curious as to whether you think Zapruder was altered in any way...

[Paul Trejo]

Paul, thank you for detail argumentation. I want to highlight and discuss some reasonings in your answer.

0B. I also don't believe that the Dallas Police picked up Lee Harvey Oswald on the night of the Walker shooting. Probability is miserable. Story with Lieutenant was not invented or fantasized by Walker. Probability is miserable too. Because Story that Walker heard was not only about LHO was suspect and FBI let LHO go. The Story had details about LHO's releasing in early morning by FBI. And Walker believed because he was paranoid. But FBI and DPD did not released LHO in the morning and could not tell Walker about this.

0B(result 1). Police and FBI did not tell Walker that Story. Another party did. That was provocation.

0B(result 1a). The episode with Voshinin do not explain how Walker learned about LHO releasing.

0Ba. Walker suspect LHO was an CIA/FBI agent. How was Walker confident that he could use and manipulate an CIA/FBI agent successfully? That had to be a very difficult task. And it was a risk of CIA/FBI reveal a conspiracy.

0Ba(result 2). Probability LHO was used by Walker is not high.

2.1a. If main conspirator (Walker in you theory) was not punished therefore he would become an example for others or he would try again. FBI had to eliminate the seat of the trouble but did not do this. Doubtfully all of JFK admirers in FBI/CIA preferred to be idle. In the same time CIA continued investigation of re-defectors. Also take into account 0B(result 1) and 0Ba(result 2).

2.1a(result 3). Probably Walker was not the main conspirator. Maybe Walker was not the conspirator. Maybe Walker played a passive role in conspiracy.

These are my assumptions.

11. You confirmed my suspicions about Ruth Paine and her story. At least she was innocent transmission point. Question about Wesley Frazier hiring remains.

Well, Vitali, I'm enjoying this exchange with you. Let's see what else I might answer. You agree with my position much of the way, Vitali, except in your results:

(0B result 1): You say, Vitali, that somebody else *besides* the DPD and FBI told Walker that the DPD arrested Oswald on the night of the shooting, and then let him go. This was intended to provoke Walker.

(*) I answer that this is possible but unnecessary. It's possible, for example, that Robert Allen Surrey (who was Walker's publisher, and also a member of the American Nazi Party, and also accompanied Walker during the Ole Miss racial riots) tried to provoke Walker with this story. Yet I still believe that somebody in an official position (maybe FBI, maybe DPD, maybe some other US Government Agency) simply told Walker about the FBI report that Mrs. Voshinin filed, that had Walker's name on it. It was a simple report. This is the simplest explanation.

(0B result 1a). You say, Vitali, that the episode with Voshinin doesn't explain how Walker came to believe that Oswald was RELEASED by the Police.

(*) I answer that there is a possibility that the Voshinin episode does explain Walker's belief, as follows. With the knowledge that Oswald was named by a rumor as a suspect, WALKER would have immediately insisted that Oswald be arrested RIGHT NOW for questioning in this shooting that nearly killed WALKER at his own home in Dallas.

But there was no arrest -- just silence. So, WALKER lost his temper. It was his own anger at the time, combined with his paranoid IMAGINATION that jumped to a conclusion; namely, that the DPD failure to ARREST Oswald was exactly the same as the DPD "letting him go."

So, WALKER's belief that the DPD arrested Oswald and let him go, was based simply on the fact that the FBI heard a rumor about Oswald's shooting at WALKER, yet refused to pursue it. This, in WALKER's mind, wasn't an accident, but part of a Communist Plot by RFK, JFK, the Pentagon, the CIA, the UN, the ACLU, the State Department, the FBI and the DPD.

So the RELEASE in WALKER's mind was his private, personal code for "failure to arrest."

(0Ba) You ask, Vitali, that since Oswald was a CIA/FBI Agent, how did WALKER come to believe he could manipulate a CIA/FBI Agent?

(*) I answer that Oswald was never a CIA/FBI Agent. Oswald was an Ex-Marine who *wanted* to have a job in the CIA/FBI, but he continually failed to get the job.

WALKER had good information sources in Dallas. He could learn anything about anybody he wanted. He learned, for example (and IMHO), that Lee Harvey Oswald had been to the USSR, and then came back to the USA without renouncing his US citizenship. He also learned that Oswald's Marine discharge had been "downgraded" for some reason. He also learned that Oswald could not hold down a steady job in Texas, and was continually changing jobs or getting laid off. He also learned that Oswald was not a CIA or FBI Agent.

Now, Oswald was probably getting a stipend from the FBI for cooperating with them here and there -- and getting $200 monthly for that (as Dallas DA Henry Wade believed). But that is not a full-time job. That is not being an FBI AGENT; that is only being a low-level snitch for the FBI, and came with no rights or privileges.

As for the CIA, I believe that the CIA considered hiring Oswald in 1961, 1962, because Oswald had been part of an ONI "dangle" operation in the USSR. But the CIA did not jump at the prospect, because Oswald also had serious PROBLEMS on his record. Oswald was not very obedient. For one thing, Oswald left the USSR on his own schedule -- without completing his assignment (IMHO). This is why (IMHO) Oswald's Marine discharge was downgraded. So, the CIA moved slowly on Oswald.

When the FBI received this rumor from Mrs. Voshinin that Oswald was WALKER's shooter on 10 April 1963, they also told the CIA (IMHO) and the CIA would have written off Lee Harvey Oswald for any future employment interviews.

It is possible that WALKER guessed this part -- and he therefore knew that Oswald was a loose cannon; a wild card; a maverick; a headstrong youth who had NO PROTECTION.

(0Ba result 2). You say, Vitali, that the probability that WALKER used Oswald "is not high".

(*) I answer that insofar as WALKER thought Oswald was his April shooter, and insofar as WALKER wanted to kill JFK (for patriotic purposes), and since Oswald was ultimately blamed for the murder of JFK, that the probability that WALKER used Oswald is very high.

(2.1a) You say, Vitali, that if the main conspirator was never punished he would become an example for others or try again.

(*) I answer that this was no ordinary murder, but the murder of the US President. Further, the TRUTH would have started riots in the middle of the Cold War -- which was too risky. Therefore, the FBI and CIA chose instead to monitor Edwin Walker individually -- along with his known fellow conspirators (mostly Interpen).

They were easy to track -- and actually they never did much of anything after the JFK murder. Also, there was no example set, because the only example that the Warren Commission (and FBI and CIA) ever talked about was the "Lone Nut".

(2.1a result 3). You note, Vitali, that there is a chance that WALKER played a minor role in the JFK murder.

(*) I answer that this is possible -- and since most people on this FORUM disagree with my Walker theory, the most generous here will say that if WALKER was involved, it was only at a very low level.

However, as an experiment I am pursuing the WALKER-did-it theory until I hit a firm brick wall -- and to my surprise I have not yet hit any brick wall. On the contrary, I watch the CIA-did-it CTers hit massive brick walls all the time. The same with LBJ-did-it CTers. And on and on.

I've not yet seen a strong argument against my WALKER-did-it theory, Vitali. So, although I admit it's only a theory, and I have no proof, I will continue to maintain this theory to see how far it leads. I've been holding it for years and have only increased the data on my side.

(11) You say, Vitali, that you also don't suspect Ruth Paine much, yet you now have a question about Wesley Frazier, because you must have an explanation for Oswald getting hired at the TSBD. It's a good question.

(*) I answer with my theory. WALKER was the one who got Oswald that job at the TSBD, and he did this through his Dallas organization known as the "Friends of Walker."

The "Friends of Walker" were a tight-knit group of rightist radicals who were always members of the John Birch Society in Dallas. They also subscribed to WALKER's Newsletter, and they also received personal information from WALKER, as needed.

As I recall, the sister of Wesley Frazier was the one who told Ruth Paine about the opening at the TSBD; and IMHO she got this information from Edwin WALKER. Roy Truly, the hiring manager at TSBD, was also member of the "Friends of Walker" IMHO, and quickly hired Oswald at the request of Edwin Walker.

So, yes, while Ruth Paine also made a telephone call to help coordinate the hiring of Oswald at the TSBD, she had no idea that WALKER was involved in this choice -- because, for one thing, she hated WALKER's guts.

As for Wesley Frazier himself, he appears to me to have been a dimwit teenager in 1963.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 25, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

as i said, i happen to agree with you. you don't have to sell me on that. even on the fragmenting bullet... it was simply the way that sentence was worded. that's all.

i'm curious as to whether you think Zapruder was altered in any way...

Well, Glenn, yes I think the Zapruder film was altered -- but only to the extent that it might have a bearing on the "Lone Nut" scenario. To this extent I agree with David Lifton.

For example, a young David Lifton pointed out to J. Edgar Hoover that the two photographs published in the Warren Report of the Zapruder film's JFK head shot, reversed the images, so that it would falsely appear that JFK's head was pushed forward by a shot from the rear. Hoover had to admit to young David Lifton that this was a "printing error."

For the same reasons that the FBI would insist on "altering" the very corpse of JFK (National Security) they could not allow the Zapruder film to stand without alteration.

Having said that, I don't think that the alteration was successful. (Just as the alteration of JFK's corpse was unsuccessful.) In this I agree with Professor David Wrone. After monkeying with it here and there, the FBI finally realized that there was too little they could do -- because to try to change a film is like trying to change TIME ITSELF. Way too complicated.

So, IMHO, the alterations to the Zapruder film are superficial, worthless, and hardly worth arguing about. The key elements of the Zapruder film -- the TIMETABLE OF THE JFK MURDER -- remain intact and reliable in it -- IMHO.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited June 26, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Also, my CT is based on the Warren Commission testimony, almost 100%.

My starting point is Allen Dulles' remark to his secretary, Jacques Zwart, that the full answer to the JFK assassination is right there in the Warren Commission (WC) volumes -- but the reader must become "an expert at hairsplitting."

In 1970 Zwart wrote his book, Invitation to Hairsplitting, which offers his take on the WC. For example, the WC was not instructed by Executive Order #11130 to report its findings and conclusions 'to the American people and to the world', but rather, to "the President alone."

The 26 volumes of the WC, published on 28 September 1964, were intended for the public, while LBJ received a separate report, only one volume, four days before the public version was published.

LBJ said his report was "four inches thick." That's twice the size of the 2" thick WC Summary, which never references #11130, so isn't bound by that Executive Order.

Zwart believes that: (i) LBJ's version named names and told the full truth about all the shooters, as well as their motives; and (ii) LBJ's version admitted that Oswald had been a paid snitch for the FBI and the CIA.

For Zwart, the public version of the Warren Report included fictions written in the interest of National Security. Therefore, Zwart believes that there was a JFK conspiracy, and that the conspirators were known after the fact by the US government.

In my opinion, Allen Dulles is correct -- the full answer to the JFK murder is contained in the WC volumes, however indirectly. I accept all of the testimony of all of the major WC witnesses -- Marina Oswald, George De Mohrenschildt, Jeanne De Mohrenschildt, Michael Paine, Ruth Paine, Ex-General Edwin Walker, Robert Allen Surrey, Bernard Weissman and so forth.

I discount only those witnesses whom the FBI pushed forward to forge their "Lone Nut" scenario. For example, the testimony of Helen Markham who claimed to see Oswald kill Tippit, but could not keep her story straight. Also, the testimony of Howard Brennan, who claimed to see Oswald at the TSBD window, but could not keep his story straight.

Aside from such, I say that the solution to the JFK conspiracy can never be obtained without the WC witnesses -- because they were on the scene and closest to the principals. The HSCA volumes cannot compete with the freshness of the WC testimony. The WC underscored the central role that Edwin Walker played in the JFK drama -- while the HSCA totally forgot about it.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 29, 2015 by Paul Trejo