The Sling

[William Kelly]

Tom mentions that the sling on the rifle discovered at the TSBD on 11/22/63 is not on the rifle in the photo taken at the Neeley Street Apt. backyard photos.

Those photos show a different sling, a white rope like contraption.

Can anyone post an enlargement of that sling?

Thanks,

BK

Thanks Tom,

Can you or someone with Lattimer's book quote the relevant passage where he identifies the sling as a USA AF shoulder holster strap?

BK

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It is my opinion that it does not. Commission Exhibit 133A has such a small portion of the sling showing that it--you cannot establish that it is or is not the same sling that is presently on the,

However, Commission Exhibit 133B does show the sling, since it shows the bottom of the rifle, and I find it to be different from the sling that is presently on the rifle. It has the appearance of being a piece of rope that is tied at both ends, rather than a leather sling, and it is my opinion that it is a different sling than is presently on the rifle.

Mr. EISENBERG. Just again a homemade simulated sling, is that it?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It has that appearance, yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. You testified that you have a much smaller view of the sling, or what passes for a sling, on 133A than on 133B. Is the sling or simulated sling on 133A, that portion of it which is visible, consistent with the sling on 133B?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; it is entirely consistent.

Mr. EISENBERG. Also looks like a piece of rope, is that it?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; it has that appearance.

=================================================

Dr. Lattimer discusses the "rope" and also shows a photo of a (Spencer) if recalled correctly which John Wilkes Boothe had and which also had a "rope" sling which was similar.

This discussion in Dr. Lattimer's book is also where he revealed the manufacturer of the sling.

And, although Dr. Lattimer was quite apparantly a "mouthpiece" for JEH & Company, his book is nevertheless a worthwhile addition to knowledge on the subject matter.

No other person that I am aware has documented the weighing of 100 Carcano bullets in order to determine an "average weight".

Too bad that someone did not also have him present the "mean" weight.

[William Kelly]

TOM PURVIS WRITES:

The best photo which I have seen was that in Lattimer's book.

And not unlike other items of the photograph, one can truly only seculate that it is in fact a rope.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shaneyf1.htm

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, I would like to draw your attention for a moment to this sling on Exhibit 139, and I would like to state for the record that this sling is not thought to be actually a rifle sling, but some type of homemade sling, that is, the firearms expert has so does this sling appear in either Commission Exhibits 133A or 133B?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It is my opinion that it does not. Commission Exhibit 133A has such a small portion of the sling showing that it--you cannot establish that it is or is not the same sling that is presently on the, however, Commission Exhibit 133B does show the sling, since it shows the bottom of the rifle, and I find it to be different from the sling that is presently on the rifle. It has the appearance of being a piece of rope that is tied at both ends, rather than a leather sling, and it is my opinion that it is a different sling than is presently on the rifle.

Mr. EISENBERG. Just again a homemade simulated sling, is that it?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It has that appearance, yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. You testified that you have a much smaller view of the sling, or what passes for a sling, on 133A than on 133B. Is the sling or simulated sling on 133A, that portion of it which is visible, consistent with the sling on 133B?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; it is entirely consistent....

END OF TRANSCRIPT

TOM PERVUS CONCLUDES: "Truthfully, nothing can be factually determined in regards to the sling."

BUT TOM, HERE'S A PHOTO OF WHAT I ASKED FOR (THANKS LEE)

AND WHILE IT LOOKS ENTIRELY CONSISTANT TO MR. SHANEYFELT, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE US ARMY AIR CORP PISTOL STRAP TO ME.

IT APPEARS TO BE THINNER, AND WITHOUT THE WIDER SHOULDER SLEVE, AND WITH SOME APPARENTLY ADJUSTABLE METAL HOOKS.

WHAT IS THIS "HOMEMADE SIMULATED SLING" AS EISENBERG CALLS IT?

WHERE DID IT COME FROM?

WHERE DID IT GO?

IF YOU CAN ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS, AND WHERE THE US ARMY AIR CORPS PISTOL STRAP CAME FROM, I'LL WAGER THAT YOU WILL IDENTIFY THE SOURCE OF THE AMMUNITION USED IN THE ASSASSINATION AS WELL.

"Truthfully, nothing can be factually determined in regards to the sling." - TP

BK

[Thomas H. Purvis]

TOM PURVIS WRITES:

The best photo which I have seen was that in Lattimer's book.

And not unlike other items of the photograph, one can truly only seculate that it is in fact a rope.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shaneyf1.htm

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, I would like to draw your attention for a moment to this sling on Exhibit 139, and I would like to state for the record that this sling is not thought to be actually a rifle sling, but some type of homemade sling, that is, the firearms expert has so does this sling appear in either Commission Exhibits 133A or 133B?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It is my opinion that it does not. Commission Exhibit 133A has such a small portion of the sling showing that it--you cannot establish that it is or is not the same sling that is presently on the, however, Commission Exhibit 133B does show the sling, since it shows the bottom of the rifle, and I find it to be different from the sling that is presently on the rifle. It has the appearance of being a piece of rope that is tied at both ends, rather than a leather sling, and it is my opinion that it is a different sling than is presently on the rifle.

Mr. EISENBERG. Just again a homemade simulated sling, is that it?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It has that appearance, yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. You testified that you have a much smaller view of the sling, or what passes for a sling, on 133A than on 133B. Is the sling or simulated sling on 133A, that portion of it which is visible, consistent with the sling on 133B?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; it is entirely consistent....

END OF TRANSCRIPT

TOM PERVUS CONCLUDES: "Truthfully, nothing can be factually determined in regards to the sling."

BUT TOM, HERE'S A PHOTO OF WHAT I ASKED FOR (THANKS LEE)

AND WHILE IT LOOKS ENTIRELY CONSISTANT TO MR. SHANEYFELT, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE US ARMY AIR CORP PISTOL STRAP TO ME.

IT APPEARS TO BE THINNER, AND WITHOUT THE WIDER SHOULDER SLEVE, AND WITH SOME APPARENTLY ADJUSTABLE METAL HOOKS.

WHAT IS THIS "HOMEMADE SIMULATED SLING" AS EISENBERG CALLS IT?

WHERE DID IT COME FROM?

WHERE DID IT GO?

IF YOU CAN ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS, AND WHERE THE US ARMY AIR CORPS PISTOL STRAP CAME FROM, I'LL WAGER THAT YOU WILL IDENTIFY THE SOURCE OF THE AMMUNITION USED IN THE ASSASSINATION AS WELL.

"Truthfully, nothing can be factually determined in regards to the sling." - TP

BK

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0268b.htm

Exhibit 139 is the Carcano and sling as entered into evidence.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0268b.htm

133 A-B are the backyard photo's which show LHO holding a Model 91/38 Carcano Short Rifle with what appears to be a rope sling.

This is what the discussion between Eisenberg & Shaneyfelt is about.

==============================================================================

IF YOU CAN ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS, AND WHERE THE US ARMY AIR CORPS PISTOL STRAP CAME FROM, I'LL WAGER THAT YOU WILL IDENTIFY THE SOURCE OF THE AMMUNITION USED IN THE ASSASSINATION AS WELL.

==============================================================================

Actually! Were I able to fatually answer those questions, then it would serve to indicate that I was a "co-conspirator" associate of LHO!

[David G. Healy]

TOM PURVIS WRITES:

The best photo which I have seen was that in Lattimer's book.

And not unlike other items of the photograph, one can truly only seculate that it is in fact a rope.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shaneyf1.htm

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, I would like to draw your attention for a moment to this sling on Exhibit 139, and I would like to state for the record that this sling is not thought to be actually a rifle sling, but some type of homemade sling, that is, the firearms expert has so does this sling appear in either Commission Exhibits 133A or 133B?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It is my opinion that it does not. Commission Exhibit 133A has such a small portion of the sling showing that it--you cannot establish that it is or is not the same sling that is presently on the, however, Commission Exhibit 133B does show the sling, since it shows the bottom of the rifle, and I find it to be different from the sling that is presently on the rifle. It has the appearance of being a piece of rope that is tied at both ends, rather than a leather sling, and it is my opinion that it is a different sling than is presently on the rifle.

Mr. EISENBERG. Just again a homemade simulated sling, is that it?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It has that appearance, yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. You testified that you have a much smaller view of the sling, or what passes for a sling, on 133A than on 133B. Is the sling or simulated sling on 133A, that portion of it which is visible, consistent with the sling on 133B?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; it is entirely consistent....

END OF TRANSCRIPT

TOM PERVUS CONCLUDES: "Truthfully, nothing can be factually determined in regards to the sling."

BUT TOM, HERE'S A PHOTO OF WHAT I ASKED FOR (THANKS LEE)

AND WHILE IT LOOKS ENTIRELY CONSISTANT TO MR. SHANEYFELT, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE US ARMY AIR CORP PISTOL STRAP TO ME.

IT APPEARS TO BE THINNER, AND WITHOUT THE WIDER SHOULDER SLEVE, AND WITH SOME APPARENTLY ADJUSTABLE METAL HOOKS.

WHAT IS THIS "HOMEMADE SIMULATED SLING" AS EISENBERG CALLS IT?

WHERE DID IT COME FROM?

WHERE DID IT GO?

IF YOU CAN ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS, AND WHERE THE US ARMY AIR CORPS PISTOL STRAP CAME FROM, I'LL WAGER THAT YOU WILL IDENTIFY THE SOURCE OF THE AMMUNITION USED IN THE ASSASSINATION AS WELL.

"Truthfully, nothing can be factually determined in regards to the sling." - TP

BK

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0268b.htm

Exhibit 139 is the Carcano and sling as entered into evidence.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0268b.htm

133 A-B are the backyard photo's which show LHO holding a Model 91/38 Carcano Short Rifle with what appears to be a rope sling.

This is what the discussion between Eisenberg & Shaneyfelt is about.

==============================================================================

IF YOU CAN ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS, AND WHERE THE US ARMY AIR CORPS PISTOL STRAP CAME FROM, I'LL WAGER THAT YOU WILL IDENTIFY THE SOURCE OF THE AMMUNITION USED IN THE ASSASSINATION AS WELL.

==============================================================================

Actually! Were I able to fatually answer those questions, then it would serve to indicate that I was a "co-conspirator" associate of LHO!

your second link is same as the first

[Thomas H. Purvis]

TOM PURVIS WRITES:

The best photo which I have seen was that in Lattimer's book.

And not unlike other items of the photograph, one can truly only seculate that it is in fact a rope.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shaneyf1.htm

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, I would like to draw your attention for a moment to this sling on Exhibit 139, and I would like to state for the record that this sling is not thought to be actually a rifle sling, but some type of homemade sling, that is, the firearms expert has so does this sling appear in either Commission Exhibits 133A or 133B?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It is my opinion that it does not. Commission Exhibit 133A has such a small portion of the sling showing that it--you cannot establish that it is or is not the same sling that is presently on the, however, Commission Exhibit 133B does show the sling, since it shows the bottom of the rifle, and I find it to be different from the sling that is presently on the rifle. It has the appearance of being a piece of rope that is tied at both ends, rather than a leather sling, and it is my opinion that it is a different sling than is presently on the rifle.

Mr. EISENBERG. Just again a homemade simulated sling, is that it?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It has that appearance, yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. You testified that you have a much smaller view of the sling, or what passes for a sling, on 133A than on 133B. Is the sling or simulated sling on 133A, that portion of it which is visible, consistent with the sling on 133B?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; it is entirely consistent....

END OF TRANSCRIPT

TOM PERVUS CONCLUDES: "Truthfully, nothing can be factually determined in regards to the sling."

BUT TOM, HERE'S A PHOTO OF WHAT I ASKED FOR (THANKS LEE)

AND WHILE IT LOOKS ENTIRELY CONSISTANT TO MR. SHANEYFELT, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE US ARMY AIR CORP PISTOL STRAP TO ME.

IT APPEARS TO BE THINNER, AND WITHOUT THE WIDER SHOULDER SLEVE, AND WITH SOME APPARENTLY ADJUSTABLE METAL HOOKS.

WHAT IS THIS "HOMEMADE SIMULATED SLING" AS EISENBERG CALLS IT?

WHERE DID IT COME FROM?

WHERE DID IT GO?

IF YOU CAN ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS, AND WHERE THE US ARMY AIR CORPS PISTOL STRAP CAME FROM, I'LL WAGER THAT YOU WILL IDENTIFY THE SOURCE OF THE AMMUNITION USED IN THE ASSASSINATION AS WELL.

"Truthfully, nothing can be factually determined in regards to the sling." - TP

BK

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0268b.htm

Exhibit 139 is the Carcano and sling as entered into evidence.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0268b.htm

133 A-B are the backyard photo's which show LHO holding a Model 91/38 Carcano Short Rifle with what appears to be a rope sling.

This is what the discussion between Eisenberg & Shaneyfelt is about.

==============================================================================

IF YOU CAN ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS, AND WHERE THE US ARMY AIR CORPS PISTOL STRAP CAME FROM, I'LL WAGER THAT YOU WILL IDENTIFY THE SOURCE OF THE AMMUNITION USED IN THE ASSASSINATION AS WELL.

==============================================================================

Actually! Were I able to fatually answer those questions, then it would serve to indicate that I was a "co-conspirator" associate of LHO!

your second link is same as the first

Yeah, it is!

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0267b.htm

Mr. EISENBERG. You testified that you have a much smaller view of the sling, or what passes for a sling, on 133A than on 133B. Is the sling or simulated sling on 133A, that portion of it which is visible, consistent with the sling on 133B?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; it is entirely consistent....

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, I would like to draw your attention for a moment to this sling on Exhibit 139, and I would like to state for the record that this sling is not thought to be actually a rifle sling, but some type of homemade sling, that is, the firearms expert has so does this sling appear in either Commission Exhibits 133A or 133B?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It is my opinion that it does not. Commission Exhibit 133A has such a small portion of the sling showing that it--you cannot establish that it is or is not the same sling that is presently on the, however, Commission Exhibit 133B does show the sling, since it shows the bottom of the rifle, and I find it to be different from the sling that is presently on the rifle. It has the appearance of being a piece of rope that is tied at both ends, rather than a leather sling, and it is my opinion that it is a different sling than is presently on the rifle.

Mr. EISENBERG. Just again a homemade simulated sling, is that it?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It has that appearance, yes.

[Robert Howard]

TOM PURVIS WRITES:

The best photo which I have seen was that in Lattimer's book.

And not unlike other items of the photograph, one can truly only seculate that it is in fact a rope.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shaneyf1.htm

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, I would like to draw your attention for a moment to this sling on Exhibit 139, and I would like to state for the record that this sling is not thought to be actually a rifle sling, but some type of homemade sling, that is, the firearms expert has so does this sling appear in either Commission Exhibits 133A or 133B?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It is my opinion that it does not. Commission Exhibit 133A has such a small portion of the sling showing that it--you cannot establish that it is or is not the same sling that is presently on the, however, Commission Exhibit 133B does show the sling, since it shows the bottom of the rifle, and I find it to be different from the sling that is presently on the rifle. It has the appearance of being a piece of rope that is tied at both ends, rather than a leather sling, and it is my opinion that it is a different sling than is presently on the rifle.

Mr. EISENBERG. Just again a homemade simulated sling, is that it?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It has that appearance, yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. You testified that you have a much smaller view of the sling, or what passes for a sling, on 133A than on 133B. Is the sling or simulated sling on 133A, that portion of it which is visible, consistent with the sling on 133B?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; it is entirely consistent....

END OF TRANSCRIPT

TOM PERVUS CONCLUDES: "Truthfully, nothing can be factually determined in regards to the sling."

BUT TOM, HERE'S A PHOTO OF WHAT I ASKED FOR (THANKS LEE)

AND WHILE IT LOOKS ENTIRELY CONSISTANT TO MR. SHANEYFELT, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE US ARMY AIR CORP PISTOL STRAP TO ME.

IT APPEARS TO BE THINNER, AND WITHOUT THE WIDER SHOULDER SLEVE, AND WITH SOME APPARENTLY ADJUSTABLE METAL HOOKS.

WHAT IS THIS "HOMEMADE SIMULATED SLING" AS EISENBERG CALLS IT?

WHERE DID IT COME FROM?

WHERE DID IT GO?

IF YOU CAN ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS, AND WHERE THE US ARMY AIR CORPS PISTOL STRAP CAME FROM, I'LL WAGER THAT YOU WILL IDENTIFY THE SOURCE OF THE AMMUNITION USED IN THE ASSASSINATION AS WELL.

"Truthfully, nothing can be factually determined in regards to the sling." - TP

BK

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0268b.htm

Exhibit 139 is the Carcano and sling as entered into evidence.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0268b.htm

133 A-B are the backyard photo's which show LHO holding a Model 91/38 Carcano Short Rifle with what appears to be a rope sling.

This is what the discussion between Eisenberg & Shaneyfelt is about.

==============================================================================

IF YOU CAN ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS, AND WHERE THE US ARMY AIR CORPS PISTOL STRAP CAME FROM, I'LL WAGER THAT YOU WILL IDENTIFY THE SOURCE OF THE AMMUNITION USED IN THE ASSASSINATION AS WELL.

==============================================================================

Actually! Were I able to fatually answer those questions, then it would serve to indicate that I was a "co-conspirator" associate of LHO!

your second link is same as the first

Yeah, it is!

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol16_0267b.htm

Mr. EISENBERG. You testified that you have a much smaller view of the sling, or what passes for a sling, on 133A than on 133B. Is the sling or simulated sling on 133A, that portion of it which is visible, consistent with the sling on 133B?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; it is entirely consistent....

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, I would like to draw your attention for a moment to this sling on Exhibit 139, and I would like to state for the record that this sling is not thought to be actually a rifle sling, but some type of homemade sling, that is, the firearms expert has so does this sling appear in either Commission Exhibits 133A or 133B?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It is my opinion that it does not. Commission Exhibit 133A has such a small portion of the sling showing that it--you cannot establish that it is or is not the same sling that is presently on the, however, Commission Exhibit 133B does show the sling, since it shows the bottom of the rifle, and I find it to be different from the sling that is presently on the rifle. It has the appearance of being a piece of rope that is tied at both ends, rather than a leather sling, and it is my opinion that it is a different sling than is presently on the rifle.

Mr. EISENBERG. Just again a homemade simulated sling, is that it?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It has that appearance, yes.

What I am about to post is in the same vein as what Tom Purvis has produced, possibly with some new information.

An article which appeared in the Fourth Decade Journal by Jack White entitled

The Search For Factoids

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=24

The article references the sling, in a similar fashion to what Tom Purvis has posted. The description is that of a

obsolete Air Force pistol holder strap, as described by Dr. John Lattimore.

Additionally, the article mentions.....

Photographs of pages 96 and 97 of the HSCA Volume VI show the rifle being carried out of the TSBD. Trouble is there appears to be a different strap in the two pictures!

[John Dolva]

1,

http://www.warfoto.com/3rdpersonalsearch59.htm

"Subject: Sgt. Carl Q. Key, 216th AAA Battalion

Comments:

I am trying to fill in some holes in my uncle's military service as his personnel records were among those destroyed in the fire at St. Louis.

He was a medic in WWII with the 3rd Ranger Battalion in North Africa, Sicily, and Salerno and Anzio in Italy. In the battle of Cisterna, after initially being captured while working with the wounded at the 3rd Battalion aid station when it was overrun, he was able to escape and was one of the few Rangers from the 1st and 3rd Battalions to make it back to friendly lines after the battle of Cisterna.

I have been unable to determine what unit he served with after the survivors of 1st, 3rd and 4th Rangers were disbanded and sent to other units. I understand that some of the Rangers were transferred to the 1st Special Service Force, however it has also been speculated that after his escape he would have most likely come back into either the 7th or 15th Infantry Regiment lines, and being a medic could have hooked up with one of the line units from one of these regiments."

2,

V(ictory)E(urope)3r ??? 3rd rangers : 3r?

??? "the "Moscow Plan" from 1941, when Nazi forces came within 30km of the Soviet capital: Hundreds of agents (Detachment 3R) were told to stay behind in Moscow to attack Nazi officers,) V.E. 3R ???

3,

(attachment)

Edited January 20, 2009 by John Dolva

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Since it would appear that there are those who do not wish to accept the "Correct" answer, might I

highly recommend repeated attendence at Gun Shows across the US as well as visits to all US Army

Surplus Stores which they can find.

Eventually, as I have, they just may find the exact same shoulder holster and shoulder strap(s) with

which the Model 91/38 Short Rifle leather sling was created from.

That portion of the strap which goes around the mid-waist/chest and holds the holster in place up against the side of the body, is not

sufficiently long enough to provide for a "double" leather straping on the rifle sling.

That portion of the strap which connects into the mid-waist/chest strap, and which runs up over the shoulder from front to rear, and which also contains the padded shoulder strap, must be taken

loose and pieced into the waist/chest portion of the strap in order to sufficiently create the strap, as seen in ALL photo's , as well as within the evidence photo's.

The connection of these two seperate "straps" is quite simple, when one takes into consideration the

"buckle" abilities of each strap with their built in buckle holes for adjustment.

Now! A true researcher would either accept the word of those who have done the above search for verification, or preferably, double check this information by conducting their own search in order to

confirm or deny the information provided.

Rather than sit around and look at vague photographs and speculate.

The strap is exactly as Dr. Lattimer stated!

Move over Rabbit, there are still those who, rather than concentrate on exactly how JFK was assassinated and exactly how the WC mislead them, prefer to chase worthless information within

the Lare of the Hare.

Do I hear the "Tune" of the "Six-Groove Bullet" and the "Bottom Mount Sling Swivel"

emitting from that dark damp hole in the ground?

[William Kelly]

Since it would appear that there are those who do not wish to accept the "Correct" answer, might I

highly recommend repeated attendence at Gun Shows across the US as well as visits to all US Army

Surplus Stores which they can find.

Eventually, as I have, they just may find the exact same shoulder holster and shoulder strap(s) with

which the Model 91/38 Short Rifle leather sling was created from.

That portion of the strap which goes around the mid-waist/chest and holds the holster in place up against the side of the body, is not

sufficiently long enough to provide for a "double" leather straping on the rifle sling.

That portion of the strap which connects into the mid-waist/chest strap, and which runs up over the shoulder from front to rear, and which also contains the padded shoulder strap, must be taken

loose and pieced into the waist/chest portion of the strap in order to sufficiently create the strap, as seen in ALL photo's , as well as within the evidence photo's.

The connection of these two seperate "straps" is quite simple, when one takes into consideration the

"buckle" abilities of each strap with their built in buckle holes for adjustment.

Now! A true researcher would either accept the word of those who have done the above search for verification, or preferably, double check this information by conducting their own search in order to

confirm or deny the information provided.

Rather than sit around and look at vague photographs and speculate.

The strap is exactly as Dr. Lattimer stated!

Move over Rabbit, there are still those who, rather than concentrate on exactly how JFK was assassinated and exactly how the WC mislead them, prefer to chase worthless information within

the Lare of the Hare.

Do I hear the "Tune" of the "Six-Groove Bullet" and the "Bottom Mount Sling Swivel"

emitting from that dark damp hole in the ground?

But you still haven't answered the question.

Is it an US Army Air Force pistol holster strap?

And where DID it come from?

BK

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Since it would appear that there are those who do not wish to accept the "Correct" answer, might I

highly recommend repeated attendence at Gun Shows across the US as well as visits to all US Army

Surplus Stores which they can find.

Eventually, as I have, they just may find the exact same shoulder holster and shoulder strap(s) with

which the Model 91/38 Short Rifle leather sling was created from.

That portion of the strap which goes around the mid-waist/chest and holds the holster in place up against the side of the body, is not

sufficiently long enough to provide for a "double" leather straping on the rifle sling.

That portion of the strap which connects into the mid-waist/chest strap, and which runs up over the shoulder from front to rear, and which also contains the padded shoulder strap, must be taken

loose and pieced into the waist/chest portion of the strap in order to sufficiently create the strap, as seen in ALL photo's , as well as within the evidence photo's.

The connection of these two seperate "straps" is quite simple, when one takes into consideration the

"buckle" abilities of each strap with their built in buckle holes for adjustment.

Now! A true researcher would either accept the word of those who have done the above search for verification, or preferably, double check this information by conducting their own search in order to

confirm or deny the information provided.

Rather than sit around and look at vague photographs and speculate.

The strap is exactly as Dr. Lattimer stated!

Move over Rabbit, there are still those who, rather than concentrate on exactly how JFK was assassinated and exactly how the WC mislead them, prefer to chase worthless information within

the Lare of the Hare.

Do I hear the "Tune" of the "Six-Groove Bullet" and the "Bottom Mount Sling Swivel"

emitting from that dark damp hole in the ground?

But you still haven't answered the question.

Is it an US Army Air Force pistol holster strap?

And where DID it come from?

BK

Is it an US Army Air Force pistol holster strap?

It is the waist-band strap, to include that portion which runs over and across the shoulder, from a shoulder holster, combined into

a single strap, which was formerly from a U.S. Army Air Corps issue to Pilots (&crewmen), up to and even through the Korean conflict in which it was now the U.S. Air Force, but due to remaining stocks, continued to be issued through the early 50's.

A virtually identical versions were utilized by US Navy as well as USMC pilots.

And where DID it come from?

Cows!

Through the process of becoming leather, through the process of a military contractor/supplier.

And for all that anyone knows, he may have "rolled" some poor ole drunk ex-aircrewman and took it.

[William Kelly]

Since it would appear that there are those who do not wish to accept the "Correct" answer, might I

highly recommend repeated attendence at Gun Shows across the US as well as visits to all US Army

Surplus Stores which they can find.

Eventually, as I have, they just may find the exact same shoulder holster and shoulder strap(s) with

which the Model 91/38 Short Rifle leather sling was created from.

That portion of the strap which goes around the mid-waist/chest and holds the holster in place up against the side of the body, is not

sufficiently long enough to provide for a "double" leather straping on the rifle sling.

That portion of the strap which connects into the mid-waist/chest strap, and which runs up over the shoulder from front to rear, and which also contains the padded shoulder strap, must be taken

loose and pieced into the waist/chest portion of the strap in order to sufficiently create the strap, as seen in ALL photo's , as well as within the evidence photo's.

The connection of these two seperate "straps" is quite simple, when one takes into consideration the

"buckle" abilities of each strap with their built in buckle holes for adjustment.

Now! A true researcher would either accept the word of those who have done the above search for verification, or preferably, double check this information by conducting their own search in order to

confirm or deny the information provided.

Rather than sit around and look at vague photographs and speculate.

The strap is exactly as Dr. Lattimer stated!

Move over Rabbit, there are still those who, rather than concentrate on exactly how JFK was assassinated and exactly how the WC mislead them, prefer to chase worthless information within

the Lare of the Hare.

Do I hear the "Tune" of the "Six-Groove Bullet" and the "Bottom Mount Sling Swivel"

emitting from that dark damp hole in the ground?

But you still haven't answered the question.

Is it an US Army Air Force pistol holster strap?

And where DID it come from?

BK

Is it an US Army Air Force pistol holster strap?

It is the waist-band strap, to include that portion which runs over and across the shoulder, from a shoulder holster, combined into

a single strap, which was formerly from a U.S. Army Air Corps issue to Pilots (&crewmen), up to and even through the Korean conflict in which it was now the U.S. Air Force, but due to remaining stocks, continued to be issued through the early 50's.

A virtually identical versions were utilized by US Navy as well as USMC pilots.

And where DID it come from?

Cows!

Through the process of becoming leather, through the process of a military contractor/supplier.

And for all that anyone knows, he may have "rolled" some poor ole drunk ex-aircrewman and took it.

I guess Thom's not interested in where the bullets came from either?

And is it significant that the strap was used by the sniper to steady the rifle during shooting, and an impossible shot without it?

And were they communiss cows?

BK

[John Dolva]

1,

http://www.warfoto.com/3rdpersonalsearch59.htm

"Subject: Sgt. Carl Q. Key, 216th AAA Battalion

Comments:

I am trying to fill in some holes in my uncle's military service as his personnel records were among those destroyed in the fire at St. Louis.

He was a medic in WWII with the 3rd Ranger Battalion in North Africa, Sicily, and Salerno and Anzio in Italy. In the battle of Cisterna, after initially being captured while working with the wounded at the 3rd Battalion aid station when it was overrun, he was able to escape and was one of the few Rangers from the 1st and 3rd Battalions to make it back to friendly lines after the battle of Cisterna.

I have been unable to determine what unit he served with after the survivors of 1st, 3rd and 4th Rangers were disbanded and sent to other units. I understand that some of the Rangers were transferred to the 1st Special Service Force, however it has also been speculated that after his escape he would have most likely come back into either the 7th or 15th Infantry Regiment lines, and being a medic could have hooked up with one of the line units from one of these regiments."

2,

V(ictory)E(urope)3r ??? 3rd rangers : 3r?

??? "the "Moscow Plan" from 1941, when Nazi forces came within 30km of the Soviet capital: Hundreds of agents (Detachment 3R) were told to stay behind in Moscow to attack Nazi officers,) V.E. 3R ???

3,

(attachment)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_National_Archives_Fire

"The 1973 National Archives Fire, a severe blow to the National Archives and Records Administration of the United States, was a fire that occurred at the National Personnel Records Center (NPRC) in St. Louis, Missouri, on July 12, 1973. NPRC, the custodian of military service records, lost approximately 16-18 million Official Military Personnel Files as a result of the fire."

"The exact cause of the 1973 National Archives Fire was never fully determined. An investigation in 1975 revealed that the affected floor, where the fire had started, had been under extreme temperature with little or no ventilation. It was speculated that air pressure on the floor had reached such a level that, combined with the very high temperatures in the enclosed space, the brittle and dry records began to spontaneously combust. The investigation also did not rule out embers of cigarettes as a possible cause, which were present in several trashcans." iow arson cannot be conclusively ruled out

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...1266737#1266845

http://www.answers.com/topic/1973

1973

January 22 - Former U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson dies at his Stonewall, Texas ranch leaving no former U.S. President living until the resignation of Richard M. Nixon in 1974.

January 23 - Eldfell on the Icelandic island of Heimaey erupts.

January 23 - U.S. President Richard Nixon announces that a peace accord has been reached in Vietnam.

January 25 - English actor Derren Nesbitt is convicted of assaulting his wife Anne Aubrey.

January 27 - U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War ends with the signing of the Paris Peace Accords.

March 23 - Watergate scandal (United States): In a letter to Judge John Sirica, Watergate burglar James W. McCord Jr. admits that he and other defendants have been pressured to remain silent about the case. He names former Attorney General John Mitchell as 'overall boss' of the operation.

March 29 - The last United States soldier leaves Vietnam.

et.c.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Since it would appear that there are those who do not wish to accept the "Correct" answer, might I

highly recommend repeated attendence at Gun Shows across the US as well as visits to all US Army

Surplus Stores which they can find.

Eventually, as I have, they just may find the exact same shoulder holster and shoulder strap(s) with

which the Model 91/38 Short Rifle leather sling was created from.

That portion of the strap which goes around the mid-waist/chest and holds the holster in place up against the side of the body, is not

sufficiently long enough to provide for a "double" leather straping on the rifle sling.

That portion of the strap which connects into the mid-waist/chest strap, and which runs up over the shoulder from front to rear, and which also contains the padded shoulder strap, must be taken

loose and pieced into the waist/chest portion of the strap in order to sufficiently create the strap, as seen in ALL photo's , as well as within the evidence photo's.

The connection of these two seperate "straps" is quite simple, when one takes into consideration the

"buckle" abilities of each strap with their built in buckle holes for adjustment.

Now! A true researcher would either accept the word of those who have done the above search for verification, or preferably, double check this information by conducting their own search in order to

confirm or deny the information provided.

Rather than sit around and look at vague photographs and speculate.

The strap is exactly as Dr. Lattimer stated!

Move over Rabbit, there are still those who, rather than concentrate on exactly how JFK was assassinated and exactly how the WC mislead them, prefer to chase worthless information within

the Lare of the Hare.

Do I hear the "Tune" of the "Six-Groove Bullet" and the "Bottom Mount Sling Swivel"

emitting from that dark damp hole in the ground?

But you still haven't answered the question.

Is it an US Army Air Force pistol holster strap?

And where DID it come from?

BK

Is it an US Army Air Force pistol holster strap?

It is the waist-band strap, to include that portion which runs over and across the shoulder, from a shoulder holster, combined into

a single strap, which was formerly from a U.S. Army Air Corps issue to Pilots (&crewmen), up to and even through the Korean conflict in which it was now the U.S. Air Force, but due to remaining stocks, continued to be issued through the early 50's.

A virtually identical versions were utilized by US Navy as well as USMC pilots.

And where DID it come from?

Cows!

Through the process of becoming leather, through the process of a military contractor/supplier.

And for all that anyone knows, he may have "rolled" some poor ole drunk ex-aircrewman and took it.

I guess Thom's not interested in where the bullets came from either?

And is it significant that the strap was used by the sniper to steady the rifle during shooting, and an impossible shot without it?

And were they communiss cows?

BK

"I guess Thom's not interested in where the bullets came from either? "

Already know that! They came from Western Cartridge Company, with the brass casings

having been produced by Olin Brass, the parent company of WCC as well.

Of which, the DuPont Corporation owned an almost 50% share.

Now! In event that you reference exactly from where LHO obtained those bullets utilized in the assassination, then one

is in about the same boat as with the rifle sling, and Tom is most certainly smart enough to recognize when a "trail" is

so cold that it would take a major singular effort to find new information relative to the subject matter.

Oh yeah, and by the way! Soon, hopefully, there will be a new book out which deals with only the subject matter of the

WCC ammo, and which will most assuredly shed some new light and information relative to this enigma.

"And is it significant that the strap was used by the sniper to steady the rifle during shooting,"

Since I was not present at the time, it would be most foolish for me to make such a comment.

As well as being made by anyone else unless they were present.

However! I can state with a small amount of authority that it would also be most foolish for any "shooter" to rely upon usage of

a carrying strap for shooting stability when one in fact has a built in "bench rest" of cardboard boxes and window sill ledges.

And, P.S. For those who know no better, the usage of the sling is primarily for when one fires from a totally unsupported

position such as the standing position.

Reading too many books and watching too many "RAMBO" movies can lead to one actually believing that the sling is of that

much assistance in shooting.

It is actually a complete hinderance when operating a bolt action rifle and attempting to rapid fire the weapon.

"and an impossible shot without it?"

Perhaps for you and a few other grade-schoolers. But down here in S. Mississippi, mid-schoolers of the male as well as

female persuasion repeatedly obtain "first-shot" kill shots of deer at ranges which by far exceed the 100 yards maximum

shooting distance which occurred in Dealey Plaza.

The reality is that the Dealey Plaza shooting was not that good!

But again, one must actually know something about shooting; the weapon; the ranges involved; etc; in order to recognize

the lack of difficulty (rating) for the three shots fired.

Of which most Boy Scouts, and virtually any Eagle Scout who has a marksmanship badge could have easily achieved.

[John Dolva]

My posts here are not meant to detract from Tom's very informative (and authoratative) postings. There's the matter of the inscription that William refers to in post #2. To me it looks like a clear VE (Victory Europe) followed by a signature or mark that may mean something relevant. A rifle from the european theatre and a cut down WWII revolver, why not a hoard of ammo?. There's a referece that may be relevant here (or not) and re. RRC 3'rd ranger in Anzio or not. Missing records due to a unsolved fire, and a brief reference to other events at that time. Johnson (head of the Boy Scouts of the US while prez.) was dead, Nixon was on the downward slide to impeachment. The Vietnam war was drawing to an end. (though afaik the promised US reparations have still not been delivered, the MIA drawnout saga may have something to do with this.) Then there's the cut down of the military 38 to what Oswald (supposedly) ordered and/or had (or hadn't) (see 'drop guns' used in the south, and likely elsewhere by corrupt cops). Nothing conclusive, speculative and indeed may be dead ends, however interesting nevertheless. (to me) . And then to complete the pic, our ole' pal Ford pardons Nixon. All in the family?

addedum: I'd be interested to know if near the likely source of the fire, usually easily determined, whether there was an indication of a molten pen or some small tube of some kind. Are the records of the investigation, apparently released a couple of yearslater, available? The separation of an acid and a chemical by a copper seal that corrodes and the resulting mix produces a very high temp fire (WWII used)

Edited January 21, 2009 by John Dolva

[William Kelly]

Tom writes:

However! I can state with a small amount of authority that it would also be most foolish for any "shooter" to rely upon usage of a carrying strap for shooting stability when one in fact has a built in "bench rest" of cardboard boxes and window sill ledges.

And, P.S. For those who know no better, the usage of the sling is primarily for when one fires from a totally unsupported position such as the standing position. Reading too many books and watching too many "RAMBO" movies can lead to one actually believing that the sling is of that much assistance in shooting. It is actually a complete hinderance when operating a bolt action rifle and attempting to rapid fire the weapon.

I guess tom Rambo hasn't read the Sniper Handbook, where the sling is used in the kneeling position, ala the 6th Floor Sniper.

e. Sling Adjustment The sling helps hold the weapon steady

without muscular effort. The more the muscles are used the harder it is

to hold the weapon steady. The sling tends to bind the parts of the body

used in aiming into a rigid bone brace, requiring less effort than would be

necessary if no sling were used. When properly adjusted, the sling permits

part of the recoil of the rifle to reabsorbed by the nonfiring arm and hand,

removing recoil from the firing shoulder.

(1) The sling consists of two different lengths of leather straps joined

together by a metal D ring (Figure 2-8). The longer strap is connected to

the sling swivel on the rear stud on the forearm of the rifle. The shorter

strap is attached to the sling swivel on the buttstock of the rifle. There are

two leather loops on the long strap known as keepers. The keepers are

used to adjust the tension on the sling. The frogs are hooks that are used

to adjust the length of the sling.

(2) To adjust the sling, the sniper disconnects the sling from the

buttstock swivel. Then, he adjusts the length of the metal D ring that joins

the two halves of the sling. He then makes sure it is even with the comb

of the stock when attaching the sling to the front swivel (Figure 2-9).

(3) The sniper adjusts the length of the sling by placing the frog on the long strap

of the sling in the 4th to the 7th set of adjustment holes on the rounded end of the

long strap that goes through the sling swivel on the forearm (Figure 2-10). (4) After adjusting the length, the sniper places the weapon on his firing hip and supports the

weapon with his firing arm. The sniper turns the sling away from him 90 degrees and inserts his nonfiring arm.

(5) The sniper slides the loop in the large section of the sling up the nonfiring arm until it is just below the armpit (Figure 2-11). He then slides both leather keepers down the sling until they bind the loop snugly round the nonfiring arm.

(6) The sniper moves his nonfiring hand from the outside of the sling to the inside of

the sling between the rifle and the sling. The sniper then grasps the forearm of the weapon, just behind the sling swivel with his nonfiring hand. He forces it outward and away from his body with the nonfiring hand (Figure 2-12).