Mr. and Mrs. Hester...who were they

[Todd W. Vaughan]

It seems that nobody is interested in discussing the Wiegman Hesters and Zapruder Hesters

except Bernice. Why is that?

Jack

hi jack , well it was dixie that brought this thread back to life so i know she is interested . and really i have been watching for info on them for years and picking up what bits and typing out from books etc i have read or whatever wee gems may appear on the sites, because of the connection to marilyn that day and the peggy burney info to the contrary that she was with zapruder and filmed from the street......but there is very little there not much and only in the Livingstone book was anything new that came out in ages of which i was grateful if it is not out there or is known by say the dallas people and is not released for others by them then it is that continuing brick wall..i mention at times....many thanks for your input this thread turned out to be informative and a saver...best b..if i have doubled with any photos below that have been posted so far i will check and delete to save resources...take care all best ..two did not take so you must open them...

Thanks, Bernice, for the Hester stuff. See attachment with questions. A little progress.

I still think that WiegHester and ZapHesters are not the same couples, based on the

dress Beatrice is wearing.

Jack

PS. I need to clarify "where is her husband?" by comparing this image to others.

Obviously there is a black shape that is supposed to be him. I intended to rework

that sentence.

jack contact chris davidson seems to he that he did research on the black shape with some and came to the conclusion it was wiegman himself look in that direction the thread may be here on the f but is so i have no idea the title perhaps he will come along or and will find it...best b..

is this any help bell...

HAHAHAHA!...that was a good one on me! In the cropped version, the cropped Stemmons sign looked like a standing woman.

The complete frame is MUCH BETTER. Do you know what film that is?

Jack :lol:

It's the Bell film, Jack.

[Bernice Moore]

thanks robin great clear Murray...problem another with Marilyn in her info nowhere ever have i come across her mentioning that she ever dropped by the first pergola...she says the two men followed her back to the office and she was scared she also says i believe she thought when she first spoke to them after running down the knoll and talking to them on the south side, that they were fbi....b

ps todd yes it is the bell...ta

Edited February 13, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Chris Davidson]

It seems that nobody is interested in discussing the Wiegman Hesters and Zapruder Hesters

except Bernice. Why is that?

Jack

hi jack , well it was dixie that brought this thread back to life so i know she is interested . and really i have been watching for info on them for years and picking up what bits and typing out from books etc i have read or whatever wee gems may appear on the sites, because of the connection to marilyn that day and the peggy burney info to the contrary that she was with zapruder and filmed from the street......but there is very little there not much and only in the Livingstone book was anything new that came out in ages of which i was grateful if it is not out there or is known by say the dallas people and is not released for others by them then it is that continuing brick wall..i mention at times....many thanks for your input this thread turned out to be informative and a saver...best b..if i have doubled with any photos below that have been posted so far i will check and delete to save resources...take care all best ..two did not take so you must open them...

Thanks, Bernice, for the Hester stuff. See attachment with questions. A little progress.

I still think that WiegHester and ZapHesters are not the same couples, based on the

dress Beatrice is wearing.

Jack

PS. I need to clarify "where is her husband?" by comparing this image to others.

Obviously there is a black shape that is supposed to be him. I intended to rework

that sentence.

jack contact chris davidson seems to he that he did research on the black shape with some and came to the conclusion it was wiegman himself look in that direction the thread may be here on the f but is so i have no idea the title perhaps he will come along or and will find it...best b..

is this any help bell...

Thanks Bernice,

Jack,

I did a great deal of work filmwise with Bell/Wiegman awhile ago.

Quite possibly I didn't convey my findings clearly.

So I will start with this movie which actually would be a conclusion to what I found.

My conclusion is:

The Bell film shows 2 different people rise up from (so called) Beatrice Hester who is on the ground.

One person we see in the Wiegman film.

The second we do not.

I have shown this with previous animation's when I exposed the other person (in the shadows) from the Bell film. (Gif provided)

Someone would have to show that the body shape of (so called) Beatrice Hester on the ground is not a person at all.

I think the supplied movie comparing the body shape in Bell/Wiegman puts that argument to rest.

Any questions I'm all ears,

chris

[Jack White]

.

[David Butler]

Thanks for reposting this Jack. It's reminded me what was bugging me when looking at Chris's interesting gif earlier.

I think it's just that we don't have the Bell and Wiegman films quite synched right. Chris's gif shows that Mr Hester has just disappeared behind the pillar as shown in the later section of the Wiegman film than the part in Chris's second movie (Mr Hester stands up and walks into the pergola as Mrs Hester rises up from lying on the ground). I think it is this bit that we see in Bell. It's not the Hesters lying on the ground it's Mrs Hester on her own as she rises up from a lying down position....Thats my thoughts anyway

[Chris Davidson]

David,

That is what I thought when I originally did the research.

But you have to come up with a plausible explanation for the shape that's lying on the ground(not rising) which fits Beatrice Hester to a T. in two different films.

As you can see in the Bell gif I did, someone is at the colonnade already and someone is starting to rise from the object on the ground.

Let me add a few other tidbits to this.

1. Here is the Bell and Nix frame side by side. Notice a similarity between the angle of the 2 films.

I believe most people try to shoot film/photos level to the horizon. Coincidence?????

2. John Dolva has pointed out he thought their might be some shenanigan's near the colonnade. (Totally unrelated research as far as I know.)

I stabilize Nix and there appears to be a blue discoloration (possibly smoke) of the film, after the headshot.

Charles Hester (or whomever that is) ends up at that exact spot.

Here's the reminder stabilized gif of that area from Nix.

chris

Edited February 12, 2010 by Chris Davidson

[Chris Davidson]

I think it's been staring us in the face for a long time.

Who was in PINK in that area?

chris

[David Butler]

I think it's been staring us in the face for a long time.

Who was in PINK in that area?

chris

Chris

Thanks for those. I'll have another look.

On your original gif on post 153 Sitzman is visible to Zapruders left though ?

Edited February 12, 2010 by David Butler

[David Butler]

David,

That is what I thought when I originally did the research.

But you have to come up with a plausible explanation for the shape that's lying on the ground(not rising) which fits Beatrice Hester to a T. in two different films.

As you can see in the Bell gif I did, someone is at the colonnade already and someone is starting to rise from the object on the ground.

Let me add a few other tidbits to this.

1. Here is the Bell and Nix frame side by side. Notice a similarity between the angle of the 2 films.

I believe most people try to shoot film/photos level to the horizon. Coincidence?????

2. John Dolva has pointed out he thought their might be some shenanigan's near the colonnade. (Totally unrelated research as far as I know.)

I stabilize Nix and there appears to be a blue discoloration (possibly smoke) of the film, after the headshot.

Charles Hester (or whomever that is) ends up at that exact spot.

Here's the reminder stabilized gif of that area from Nix.

chris

Thanks Chris

I am still thinking I was on the right lines above as I think the person in the colonnade already is Mr Hester who has got up and walked away from his wife. The movement we see is Mrs Hester rising up to a sitting position under her own steam as seen a bit later on in Wiegman if you run it a bit longer than the bit where they are both on the ground together.

I will try and find a frame from Wiegman that shows it but the part I am thinking of is where she rises to a sitting position from lying down on her own as her husband is already up and behind her and about to walk behind the pillar in the pergola which is what I think is seen in Bell.

I'm not sure about the bit above with John Dolva and any smoke as I haven't looked for that as yet...

Cheers

David

[Jack White]

I think it's been staring us in the face for a long time.

Who was in PINK in that area?

chris

I assume you mean BEIGE...the color of Sitzman's dress. You think she is the

woman on the ground?

Beatrice was wearing GREEN, so I don't think she is a match.

[Chris Davidson]

David,

That is what I thought when I originally did the research.

But you have to come up with a plausible explanation for the shape that's lying on the ground(not rising) which fits Beatrice Hester to a T. in two different films.

As you can see in the Bell gif I did, someone is at the colonnade already and someone is starting to rise from the object on the ground.

Let me add a few other tidbits to this.

1. Here is the Bell and Nix frame side by side. Notice a similarity between the angle of the 2 films.

I believe most people try to shoot film/photos level to the horizon. Coincidence?????

2. John Dolva has pointed out he thought their might be some shenanigan's near the colonnade. (Totally unrelated research as far as I know.)

I stabilize Nix and there appears to be a blue discoloration (possibly smoke) of the film, after the headshot.

Charles Hester (or whomever that is) ends up at that exact spot.

Here's the reminder stabilized gif of that area from Nix.

chris

Thanks Chris

I am still thinking I was on the right lines above as I think the person in the colonnade already is Mr Hester who has got up and walked away from his wife. The movement we see is Mrs Hester rising up to a sitting position under her own steam as seen a bit later on in Wiegman if you run it a bit longer than the bit where they are both on the ground together.

I will try and find a frame from Wiegman that shows it but the part I am thinking of is where she rises to a sitting position from lying down on her own as her husband is already up and behind her and about to walk behind the pillar in the pergola which is what I think is seen in Bell.

I'm not sure about the bit above with John Dolva and any smoke as I haven't looked for that as yet...

Cheers

David

David,

Upon closer examination, I'm now inclined to agree with you.

Looking at Wiegman, what I believed to be the pink clothing of a person, now looks to be the concrete step behind her, as she moves her arms apart.

Attach this to the newspaper and black bag and a matching body is created.

This stabilization should help.

If we only had quality films.

nice work,

chris

Edited February 12, 2010 by Chris Davidson

[Chris Davidson]

I think it's been staring us in the face for a long time.

Who was in PINK in that area?

chris

I assume you mean BEIGE...the color of Sitzman's dress. You think she is the

woman on the ground?

Beatrice was wearing GREEN, so I don't think she is a match.

Jack,

What I mistook for pink or beige appears to be the step behind her.

Yes, I meant the object on the ground in front of the rising silhouette.

chris

[David Butler]

David,

That is what I thought when I originally did the research.

But you have to come up with a plausible explanation for the shape that's lying on the ground(not rising) which fits Beatrice Hester to a T. in two different films.

As you can see in the Bell gif I did, someone is at the colonnade already and someone is starting to rise from the object on the ground.

Let me add a few other tidbits to this.

1. Here is the Bell and Nix frame side by side. Notice a similarity between the angle of the 2 films.

I believe most people try to shoot film/photos level to the horizon. Coincidence?????

2. John Dolva has pointed out he thought their might be some shenanigan's near the colonnade. (Totally unrelated research as far as I know.)

I stabilize Nix and there appears to be a blue discoloration (possibly smoke) of the film, after the headshot.

Charles Hester (or whomever that is) ends up at that exact spot.

Here's the reminder stabilized gif of that area from Nix.

chris

Thanks Chris

I am still thinking I was on the right lines above as I think the person in the colonnade already is Mr Hester who has got up and walked away from his wife. The movement we see is Mrs Hester rising up to a sitting position under her own steam as seen a bit later on in Wiegman if you run it a bit longer than the bit where they are both on the ground together.

I will try and find a frame from Wiegman that shows it but the part I am thinking of is where she rises to a sitting position from lying down on her own as her husband is already up and behind her and about to walk behind the pillar in the pergola which is what I think is seen in Bell.

I'm not sure about the bit above with John Dolva and any smoke as I haven't looked for that as yet...

Cheers

David

David,

Upon closer examination, I'm now inclined to agree with you.

Looking at Wiegman, what I believed to be the pink clothing of a person, now looks to be the concrete step behind her, as she moves her arms apart.

Attach this to the newspaper and black bag and a matching body is created.

This stabilization should help.

If we only had quality films.

nice work,

chris

Phew ! Thanks Chris...Quality films are indeed the key...I hope my DVD as recommended by Robin will arrive soon as I'm keen to get some higher quality versions of some of these films..

Cheers

David

[Robin Unger]

Quote:

I think the person in the colonnade already is Mr Hester who has got up and walked away from his wife. The movement we see is Mrs Hester rising up to a sitting position under her own steam.

Exactly David.

No big mystery, Bell shows the same sequence as we see in weigman, only from a different angle, with the camera at a greater distance away from the subjects.

[Jack White]

Quote:

I think the person in the colonnade already is Mr Hester who has got up and walked away from his wife. The movement we see is Mrs Hester rising up to a sitting position under her own steam.

Exactly David.

No big mystery, Bell shows the same sequence as we see in weigman, only from a different angle, with the camera at a greater distance away from the subjects.

The big mystery, Robin, is that the WiegBeatrice is dressed differently than the ZapBeatrice. So we have

two different women, and do not know which one is Beatrice. They have different dresses, so cannot

be the same. Something is wrong.

Jack