Chris Davidson Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 (edited) THIS IS FAR FRM THE FIRST TIME SHE HAS BEEN ATTACKED AND THE IMPLICATION OF xxxx HAS BEEN MADE, BUT BEVERLY WILL NOT BE READING THIS THREAD NOR ANY OTHER, SHE BACKED OFF THE FORUMS YEARS AGO, BECAUSE OF SUCH TREATMENT,AS OTHERS ALSO DID, AND WHO COULD BLAME THEM, SHE HAS STATED IN THE PAST THAT SHE HAS TOLD HER EXPERIENCE AND THAT'S THAT MORE OR LESS, SOME WILL BELIEVE AND THOSE THAT DO NOT, WILL NEVER NO MATTER WHAT IS ARGUED, BUT IMO, I DOUBT PERHAPS THOUGH I PERSONALLY DO NOT KNOW OF ANY FILM STUDIES SHE HAS DONE,POSITIVELY OR AND THAT BEVERLY EVER KNEW WHAT A SPROCKET HOLE WAS,OR IS, AND YES THROUGH THE YEARS MANY RESEARCHERS HAVE MADE THE SAME MISTAKE ABOUT THE OUTSIDE MOTORCYCLE,OFFICER AND THERE ARE THOSE OUT THERE RELATIVELY NEW THAT STILL ARE...I THOUGHT THE THROWING OUT OF THE BABY WAS HOPEFULLY DONE WITH, AND YES I AGREE, TOO MANY OF THE WITNESSES ARE AND HAVE BEEN PUT DOWN ON THIS FORUM, TOO OFTEN, SOME PERHAPS APPEAR TO GET GREAT GLEE FROM DOING SO, PERHAPS BECAUSE THEN WHAT THEY THINK MIGHT HAVE SOME VERIFICATION IN THEIR MINDS, FOR THEIR PERSONAL THEORY, THEY LIMIT THEMSELVES AND THAT IS REALLY THE EXTENT OF THEIR RESEARCH STUDIES. .BTW SHE STILL HAS THE SHOES WITH THE YELLOW PAINT ON THEM FROM THE CURB THAT DAY THAT WAS FRESHLY DONE, BUT PLESE DO NOT LET ME STOP YOU ARGUING, CARRY ON DUNCAN AND ALL BY ALL MEANS..WHY ARE SO MANY BOUND BENT AND DETERMINED TO ONLY SHOW THE NEGATIVE AND NOT THE POSITIVE WITHIN THE RESEARCH, WHO IS TO BE NEXT ON THE LIST ?? .B Bernice, What's wrong with pointing out a blatant discrepancy between the real evidence of the motorcycle cop's movements as seen in the Zapruder film, and the blatantly wrong description given by Beverly Oliver to Vince Palamara on video? I don't believe that she is genuine, but i'm not stopping anyone from believing that she is genuine. Duncan Nothing wrong Duncan if you have the proof of what you have stated,about the information she has expressed, did you contact her and ask if she knows what a sprocket hole is in a film , let alone if has she ever done any of the film studies, and therefore be aware of such, ??For all any of us know, the motorcycle officer may have been pointed out to her, by palamara or, but unless you have asked, and given her the opportunity to clarify..yet you have accused her that you have ''pointing out a blatant discrepancy between the real evidence of the motorcycle cop's movements as seen in the Zapruder film, and the blatantly wrong description given by Beverly Oliver to Vince Palamara on video?'' The whole world has not studied the films let alone the crappy zappy to that extent, nor seriously, to some it is not that important...they have seen it and that has been enough...b Bernice, Why would I want to contact her? I have already posted the video showing the evidence of her giving a verbally false version of the events. She said that "The one on the right went straight down Houston" and that only three of the four motorcycled were left to go down Elm. The Zapruder film, crappy or not, shows that this is clearly untrue, and that her recollection could only have come from a viewing of the Zapruder film without the sprocket holes. Duncan Duncan, Originally, there are 5 that turn onto Houston St. A set of three, and a set of two. You would need to account for these 5, from Houston onto to Elm, before you state Oliver is giving false accusations. You could alternately conclude that her statement includes a description of 5 total cycles, such as: 1 down Houston + (3 of 4) left to go down Elm. It all depends on her vantage point. chris http://98.155.2.196:8400/E0CC4/2.flv Edited June 13, 2010 by Chris Davidson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Viklund Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 The Zapruder film is fiction. Jack Jack, Where and when, in your opinion, was the Z-film altered? Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 The Zapruder film is fiction. Jack Jack, Where and when, in your opinion, was the Z-film altered? Glenn I don't know, do you? I do know that the extant film is not genuine and is not the film taken by Zapruder. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 THIS IS FAR FRM THE FIRST TIME SHE HAS BEEN ATTACKED AND THE IMPLICATION OF xxxx HAS BEEN MADE, BUT BEVERLY WILL NOT BE READING THIS THREAD NOR ANY OTHER, SHE BACKED OFF THE FORUMS YEARS AGO, BECAUSE OF SUCH TREATMENT,AS OTHERS ALSO DID, AND WHO COULD BLAME THEM, SHE HAS STATED IN THE PAST THAT SHE HAS TOLD HER EXPERIENCE AND THAT'S THAT MORE OR LESS, SOME WILL BELIEVE AND THOSE THAT DO NOT, WILL NEVER NO MATTER WHAT IS ARGUED, BUT IMO, I DOUBT PERHAPS THOUGH I PERSONALLY DO NOT KNOW OF ANY FILM STUDIES SHE HAS DONE,POSITIVELY OR AND THAT BEVERLY EVER KNEW WHAT A SPROCKET HOLE WAS,OR IS, AND YES THROUGH THE YEARS MANY RESEARCHERS HAVE MADE THE SAME MISTAKE ABOUT THE OUTSIDE MOTORCYCLE,OFFICER AND THERE ARE THOSE OUT THERE RELATIVELY NEW THAT STILL ARE...I THOUGHT THE THROWING OUT OF THE BABY WAS HOPEFULLY DONE WITH, AND YES I AGREE, TOO MANY OF THE WITNESSES ARE AND HAVE BEEN PUT DOWN ON THIS FORUM, TOO OFTEN, SOME PERHAPS APPEAR TO GET GREAT GLEE FROM DOING SO, PERHAPS BECAUSE THEN WHAT THEY THINK MIGHT HAVE SOME VERIFICATION IN THEIR MINDS, FOR THEIR PERSONAL THEORY, THEY LIMIT THEMSELVES AND THAT IS REALLY THE EXTENT OF THEIR RESEARCH STUDIES. .BTW SHE STILL HAS THE SHOES WITH THE YELLOW PAINT ON THEM FROM THE CURB THAT DAY THAT WAS FRESHLY DONE, BUT PLESE DO NOT LET ME STOP YOU ARGUING, CARRY ON DUNCAN AND ALL BY ALL MEANS..WHY ARE SO MANY BOUND BENT AND DETERMINED TO ONLY SHOW THE NEGATIVE AND NOT THE POSITIVE WITHIN THE RESEARCH, WHO IS TO BE NEXT ON THE LIST ?? .B Bernice, What's wrong with pointing out a blatant discrepancy between the real evidence of the motorcycle cop's movements as seen in the Zapruder film, and the blatantly wrong description given by Beverly Oliver to Vince Palamara on video? I don't believe that she is genuine, but i'm not stopping anyone from believing that she is genuine. Duncan Nothing wrong Duncan if you have the proof of what you have stated,about the information she has expressed, did you contact her and ask if she knows what a sprocket hole is in a film , let alone if has she ever done any of the film studies, and therefore be aware of such, ??For all any of us know, the motorcycle officer may have been pointed out to her, by palamara or, but unless you have asked, and given her the opportunity to clarify..yet you have accused her that you have ''pointing out a blatant discrepancy between the real evidence of the motorcycle cop's movements as seen in the Zapruder film, and the blatantly wrong description given by Beverly Oliver to Vince Palamara on video?'' The whole world has not studied the films let alone the crappy zappy to that extent, nor seriously, to some it is not that important...they have seen it and that has been enough...b Bernice, Why would I want to contact her? I have already posted the video showing the evidence of her giving a verbally false version of the events. She said that "The one on the right went straight down Houston" and that only three of the four motorcycled were left to go down Elm. The Zapruder film, crappy or not, shows that this is clearly untrue, and that her recollection could only have come from a viewing of the Zapruder film without the sprocket holes. Duncan Duncan, Originally, there are 5 that turn onto Houston St. A set of three, and a set of two. You would need to account for these 5, from Houston onto to Elm, before you state Oliver is giving false accusations. You could alternately conclude that her statement includes a description of 5 total cycles, such as: 1 down Houston + (3 of 4) left to go down Elm. It all depends on her vantage point. chris http://98.155.2.196:8400/E0CC4/2.flv Beverly was filming the president's car, not the motorcycles. She was looking at the president, not the motorcycles. Beverly was the Babushka Lady. Other observations and speculations are irrelevant. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 (edited) Why would I want to contact her? I have already posted the video showing the evidence of her giving a verbally false version of the events. She said that "The one on the right went straight down Houston" and that only three of the four motorcycled were left to go down Elm. The Zapruder film, crappy or not, shows that this is clearly untrue, and that her recollection could only have come from a viewing of the Zapruder film without the sprocket holes. Duncan Gee Duncan, perhaps to give the accused the benefit of the doubt, to ask, if she has studied the crappy zappy, and or knows what a sprocket hole is, and perhaps, or if that recollection came from anyone else pointing such out to her that information about the motorcycle, you may have been very surprised by her reply, but then again i can understand why you may not have wanted such , ......I will put it this way,IMO.. many others have researched the babushka lady, thoroughly, or as deep as they have been able to, and no one has been able to prove such either way, so it is up to the individual, which is to each their own, but, no other woman either. has ever come forward claiming to be her, and none can say positively who she was other than beverly,who has claimed so, now if beverly oliver has did and still, puts herself at risk by saying so, who am i or anyone to say she is not, without proof...the problem really with beverly, I believe is not that she came forward to claim she was babushka, the real problem was and still is, that she corroborates jean hill's story of shots from the knoll,and still does, the same as gordon arnold, and emmett hudson, all whom some have tried to put down as liars, confused witnesses who could not see straight, hear nor see, any which way they can and they still do, just do a search on this forum, and see with some regularity how their information has been either attacked, or dismissed, and whom has started such threads and or have contributed to such greatly...that is imo the reason, any who witnessed shots from the knoll,and had the courage to say so and stick by their information, have been attacked ever since, for any reason whatsoever, being proven sound or not, which of course these witnesses and their information did not and does not go along with the governments and the LNRS scenario, of from the tsbd only,they are to be attacked as unbelieveable, and are continually,which has and is nothing new, but very enlightening..as well now at times, as boring, it has become so very old as some still try, to bury their information, which only brings it to the surface,and spotlights it, thanks for the come back,so carry on ...take care all.. .b Edited June 13, 2010 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Beverly did NOT come forward. She had made mistakes when younger. She was trying to put her past behind her. She "got religion" and married evangelist Charles Massagee. Rev. Massagee and she travelled around holding "revivals" in Texas churches. For economy reasons, the traveling pastor and wife were often hosted in church member homes instead of motels. Charles preached, Beverly sang. Revivals usually lasted several days. While holding a revival in a church in Cleburne Texas, Charles and Beverly were hosted by architect and church member J. Gary Shaw. In his hallway, Gary had a bookcase full of JFK books. At the dinner table during the meal, Beverly commented on the books, and to her surprise found that Gary was a leading researcher of the JFK murder. She had NO IDEA her host was a JFK expert. Very matter-of-factly, Beverly commented, "Oh, you know, I was there that day. I don't talk about it, but I saw the president die." She did NOT "come forward"; she made an offhand comment during dinner...by accident to a person who KNEW. Gary was astonished that chance had brought an unknown witness to his house. He asked where she was in the plaza. She described a point about a third of the way down Elm by the south curb. Gary knew the photos by memory. He became excited. The ONLY woman in the photos where his dinner guest described was the unidentified woman in a headscarf called the Babushka Lady. Chance had brought her forward to his house. Without showing her photos or descriptions, the next day he drove the Massagees to Dealey Plaza. He asked her to go stand where she had been. She went to the exact spot of the Babushka Lady. When Gary informed her of the significance of her story, she wished to remain anonymous. Only because Gary confided the story to his cohort Penn Jones did her story become known. Penn hinted in several stories in his newspaper that the Babushka Lady had been found. Only later when Beverly donated one of her kidneys to her ailing daughter did her identity become known. The uninformed say that Beverly "came forward". She became known only by chance, and then wanted to avoid any publicity lest it interfere with her religious work. She was afraid that her shady past, use of drugs, night club singer, and association with underworld figures would ruin the revival crusade of the Massagees. At first, she was not happy that Penn had named her. Later, she began to see the good that her admission had done in the search for truth, and ever since has devoted herself to doing whatever she can to find who killed JFK. Beverly Oliver Massagee IS the Babushka Lady. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 thanks jack for filling out the information about beverly,,b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd W. Vaughan Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Beverly did NOT come forward. She had made mistakes when younger. She was trying to put her past behind her. She "got religion" and married evangelist Charles Massagee. Rev. Massagee and she travelled around holding "revivals" in Texas churches. For economy reasons, the traveling pastor and wife were often hosted in church member homes instead of motels. Charles preached, Beverly sang. Revivals usually lasted several days. While holding a revival in a church in Cleburne Texas, Charles and Beverly were hosted by architect and church member J. Gary Shaw. In his hallway, Gary had a bookcase full of JFK books. At the dinner table during the meal, Beverly commented on the books, and to her surprise found that Gary was a leading researcher of the JFK murder. She had NO IDEA her host was a JFK expert. Very matter-of-factly, Beverly commented, "Oh, you know, I was there that day. I don't talk about it, but I saw the president die." She did NOT "come forward"; she made an offhand comment during dinner...by accident to a person who KNEW. Gary was astonished that chance had brought an unknown witness to his house. He asked where she was in the plaza. She described a point about a third of the way down Elm by the south curb. Gary knew the photos by memory. He became excited. The ONLY woman in the photos where his dinner guest described was the unidentified woman in a headscarf called the Babushka Lady. Chance had brought her forward to his house. Without showing her photos or descriptions, the next day he drove the Massagees to Dealey Plaza. He asked her to go stand where she had been. She went to the exact spot of the Babushka Lady. When Gary informed her of the significance of her story, she wished to remain anonymous. Only because Gary confided the story to his cohort Penn Jones did her story become known. Penn hinted in several stories in his newspaper that the Babushka Lady had been found. Only later when Beverly donated one of her kidneys to her ailing daughter did her identity become known. The uninformed say that Beverly "came forward". She became known only by chance, and then wanted to avoid any publicity lest it interfere with her religious work. She was afraid that her shady past, use of drugs, night club singer, and association with underworld figures would ruin the revival crusade of the Massagees. At first, she was not happy that Penn had named her. Later, she began to see the good that her admission had done in the search for truth, and ever since has devoted herself to doing whatever she can to find who killed JFK. Beverly Oliver Massagee IS the Babushka Lady. Jack Jack, Thanks for your info about Beverly Oliver. Is this the story Gary Shaw told you? Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Beverly did NOT come forward. She had made mistakes when younger. She was trying to put her past behind her. She "got religion" and married evangelist Charles Massagee. Rev. Massagee and she travelled around holding "revivals" in Texas churches. For economy reasons, the traveling pastor and wife were often hosted in church member homes instead of motels. Charles preached, Beverly sang. Revivals usually lasted several days. While holding a revival in a church in Cleburne Texas, Charles and Beverly were hosted by architect and church member J. Gary Shaw. In his hallway, Gary had a bookcase full of JFK books. At the dinner table during the meal, Beverly commented on the books, and to her surprise found that Gary was a leading researcher of the JFK murder. She had NO IDEA her host was a JFK expert. Very matter-of-factly, Beverly commented, "Oh, you know, I was there that day. I don't talk about it, but I saw the president die." She did NOT "come forward"; she made an offhand comment during dinner...by accident to a person who KNEW. Gary was astonished that chance had brought an unknown witness to his house. He asked where she was in the plaza. She described a point about a third of the way down Elm by the south curb. Gary knew the photos by memory. He became excited. The ONLY woman in the photos where his dinner guest described was the unidentified woman in a headscarf called the Babushka Lady. Chance had brought her forward to his house. Without showing her photos or descriptions, the next day he drove the Massagees to Dealey Plaza. He asked her to go stand where she had been. She went to the exact spot of the Babushka Lady. When Gary informed her of the significance of her story, she wished to remain anonymous. Only because Gary confided the story to his cohort Penn Jones did her story become known. Penn hinted in several stories in his newspaper that the Babushka Lady had been found. Only later when Beverly donated one of her kidneys to her ailing daughter did her identity become known. The uninformed say that Beverly "came forward". She became known only by chance, and then wanted to avoid any publicity lest it interfere with her religious work. She was afraid that her shady past, use of drugs, night club singer, and association with underworld figures would ruin the revival crusade of the Massagees. At first, she was not happy that Penn had named her. Later, she began to see the good that her admission had done in the search for truth, and ever since has devoted herself to doing whatever she can to find who killed JFK. Beverly Oliver Massagee IS the Babushka Lady. Jack Jack, I've watched interviews with Beverly Oliver and she certainly seems genuine to me. On the other hand, appearances can be decieving. I've done no research into her story at all so please correct me if I'm wrong but didn't she claim to have filmed the motorcade with a camera that wasn't available in 1963? Cheers! Martin Beverly filmed with a camera loaned to her by boyfriend Larry Ronco. She was not a camera expert, but a teen girl. Anything said in later years was a result of later research and information furnished by others. As I recall, her initial claims to Gary Shaw did not involve the make, year or model of the camera. Others determined that later I think. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd W. Vaughan Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Jack, Thanks for your info about Beverly Oliver. Is this the story Gary Shaw told you? Todd Beverly did NOT come forward. She had made mistakes when younger. She was trying to put her past behind her. She "got religion" and married evangelist Charles Massagee. Rev. Massagee and she travelled around holding "revivals" in Texas churches. For economy reasons, the traveling pastor and wife were often hosted in church member homes instead of motels. Charles preached, Beverly sang. Revivals usually lasted several days. While holding a revival in a church in Cleburne Texas, Charles and Beverly were hosted by architect and church member J. Gary Shaw. In his hallway, Gary had a bookcase full of JFK books. At the dinner table during the meal, Beverly commented on the books, and to her surprise found that Gary was a leading researcher of the JFK murder. She had NO IDEA her host was a JFK expert. Very matter-of-factly, Beverly commented, "Oh, you know, I was there that day. I don't talk about it, but I saw the president die." She did NOT "come forward"; she made an offhand comment during dinner...by accident to a person who KNEW. Gary was astonished that chance had brought an unknown witness to his house. He asked where she was in the plaza. She described a point about a third of the way down Elm by the south curb. Gary knew the photos by memory. He became excited. The ONLY woman in the photos where his dinner guest described was the unidentified woman in a headscarf called the Babushka Lady. Chance had brought her forward to his house. Without showing her photos or descriptions, the next day he drove the Massagees to Dealey Plaza. He asked her to go stand where she had been. She went to the exact spot of the Babushka Lady. When Gary informed her of the significance of her story, she wished to remain anonymous. Only because Gary confided the story to his cohort Penn Jones did her story become known. Penn hinted in several stories in his newspaper that the Babushka Lady had been found. Only later when Beverly donated one of her kidneys to her ailing daughter did her identity become known. The uninformed say that Beverly "came forward". She became known only by chance, and then wanted to avoid any publicity lest it interfere with her religious work. She was afraid that her shady past, use of drugs, night club singer, and association with underworld figures would ruin the revival crusade of the Massagees. At first, she was not happy that Penn had named her. Later, she began to see the good that her admission had done in the search for truth, and ever since has devoted herself to doing whatever she can to find who killed JFK. Beverly Oliver Massagee IS the Babushka Lady. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 THIS IS FAR FRM THE FIRST TIME SHE HAS BEEN ATTACKED AND THE IMPLICATION OF xxxx HAS BEEN MADE, BUT BEVERLY WILL NOT BE READING THIS THREAD NOR ANY OTHER, SHE BACKED OFF THE FORUMS YEARS AGO, BECAUSE OF SUCH TREATMENT,AS OTHERS ALSO DID, AND WHO COULD BLAME THEM, SHE HAS STATED IN THE PAST THAT SHE HAS TOLD HER EXPERIENCE AND THAT'S THAT MORE OR LESS, SOME WILL BELIEVE AND THOSE THAT DO NOT, WILL NEVER NO MATTER WHAT IS ARGUED, BUT IMO, I DOUBT PERHAPS THOUGH I PERSONALLY DO NOT KNOW OF ANY FILM STUDIES SHE HAS DONE,POSITIVELY OR AND THAT BEVERLY EVER KNEW WHAT A SPROCKET HOLE WAS,OR IS, AND YES THROUGH THE YEARS MANY RESEARCHERS HAVE MADE THE SAME MISTAKE ABOUT THE OUTSIDE MOTORCYCLE,OFFICER AND THERE ARE THOSE OUT THERE RELATIVELY NEW THAT STILL ARE...I THOUGHT THE THROWING OUT OF THE BABY WAS HOPEFULLY DONE WITH, AND YES I AGREE, TOO MANY OF THE WITNESSES ARE AND HAVE BEEN PUT DOWN ON THIS FORUM, TOO OFTEN, SOME PERHAPS APPEAR TO GET GREAT GLEE FROM DOING SO, PERHAPS BECAUSE THEN WHAT THEY THINK MIGHT HAVE SOME VERIFICATION IN THEIR MINDS, FOR THEIR PERSONAL THEORY, THEY LIMIT THEMSELVES AND THAT IS REALLY THE EXTENT OF THEIR RESEARCH STUDIES. .BTW SHE STILL HAS THE SHOES WITH THE YELLOW PAINT ON THEM FROM THE CURB THAT DAY THAT WAS FRESHLY DONE, BUT PLESE DO NOT LET ME STOP YOU ARGUING, CARRY ON DUNCAN AND ALL BY ALL MEANS..WHY ARE SO MANY BOUND BENT AND DETERMINED TO ONLY SHOW THE NEGATIVE AND NOT THE POSITIVE WITHIN THE RESEARCH, WHO IS TO BE NEXT ON THE LIST ?? .B Bernice, What's wrong with pointing out a blatant discrepancy between the real evidence of the motorcycle cop's movements as seen in the Zapruder film, and the blatantly wrong description given by Beverly Oliver to Vince Palamara on video? I don't believe that she is genuine, but i'm not stopping anyone from believing that she is genuine. Duncan Nothing wrong Duncan if you have the proof of what you have stated,about the information she has expressed, did you contact her and ask if she knows what a sprocket hole is in a film , let alone if has she ever done any of the film studies, and therefore be aware of such, ??For all any of us know, the motorcycle officer may have been pointed out to her, by palamara or, but unless you have asked, and given her the opportunity to clarify..yet you have accused her that you have ''pointing out a blatant discrepancy between the real evidence of the motorcycle cop's movements as seen in the Zapruder film, and the blatantly wrong description given by Beverly Oliver to Vince Palamara on video?'' The whole world has not studied the films let alone the crappy zappy to that extent, nor seriously, to some it is not that important...they have seen it and that has been enough...b Bernice, Why would I want to contact her? I have already posted the video showing the evidence of her giving a verbally false version of the events. She said that "The one on the right went straight down Houston" and that only three of the four motorcycled were left to go down Elm. The Zapruder film, crappy or not, shows that this is clearly untrue, and that her recollection could only have come from a viewing of the Zapruder film without the sprocket holes. Duncan Duncan, Originally, there are 5 that turn onto Houston St. A set of three, and a set of two. You would need to account for these 5, from Houston onto to Elm, before you state Oliver is giving false accusations. You could alternately conclude that her statement includes a description of 5 total cycles, such as: 1 down Houston + (3 of 4) left to go down Elm. It all depends on her vantage point. chris http://98.155.2.196:8400/E0CC4/2.flv Beverly was filming the president's car, not the motorcycles. She was looking at the president, not the motorcycles. Beverly was the Babushka Lady. Other observations and speculations are irrelevant. Jack Jack, She was filming the limo, but before that occurs, she knows about the existance of 5 motorcycles approaching Elm from Houston, and describes their actions. (Muchmore film) This is very relevant. Once again, the actions of the motorcycles caught her attention, enough for her to describe their whereabouts. This is important because it's not something we see on any films or photos. What happened to 2 of the 5 cycles between Houston and Elm? She is also accurate in describing 3 motorcycles actually coming down Elm St. I believe it lays a good foundation for what she experienced that day. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Jack, I've watched interviews with Beverly Oliver and she certainly seems genuine to me. On the other hand, appearances can be decieving. I've done no research into her story at all so please correct me if I'm wrong but didn't she claim to have filmed the motorcade with a camera that wasn't available in 1963? Cheers! Martin Here's some good stuff on Beverly Oliver from the John Mcadams website. Beverly Oliver factual information. If you believe John McAdams then the FBI who took her camera three days after the assassination were the conspirators. I think McAdams is right on that point, but wrong on the rest. Larry Ronco, who worked at Kodak and at the Texas State Fair, and gave Beverly Oliver the camera, is still alive, and according to Gary Mack, returned to Kodak HQ at Rochester in 1964. Ronco, who has never been questioned, certainly could answer a lot of questions and confirm or refute much of Oliver's story. It now seems that all roads now lead to Rochester. http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2009/12/larry-ronco-and-beverly-oliver.html BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Quote: Jack, She was filming the limo, but before that occurs, she knows about the existance of 5 motorcycles approaching Elm from Houston, and describes their actions. (Muchmore film) This is very relevant. Once again, the actions of the motorcycles caught her attention, enough for her to describe their whereabouts. This is important because it's not something we see on any films or photos. What happened to 2 of the 5 cycles between Houston and Elm? She is also accurate in describing 3 motorcycles actually coming down Elm St. I believe it lays a good foundation for what she experienced that day. chris Chris. If this is Babushka in Bronson, it appears to be just behind the Muchmore filming position. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 (edited) Chris. Looking at Altgens and Bothun i only see 4 -motorcycles. ? Altgens 2 Large Bothun 2 Edited June 14, 2010 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Chris. Looking at Altgens and Bothun i only see 4 -motorcycles. ? Altgens 2 Large Bothun 2 Robin, Take a look at the Muchmore video I posted. 5 cycles come around the Main/ Houston St. corner. The first set is 3, the second set is 2. What happens to 2 of the 5 from Houston onto Elm. I don't know. I know of no footage that shows it. When she says one kept going straight down Houston, how do we know she is talking about 1 of 3 in the front pack(seen on Z) and not 1 of 2 from the trailing pack? If we can't account for all 5 cycles on Houston, how can her description of this segment be considered true or false. We need more proof. This is all that I'm referring to. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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