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Whereabouts of Mr. Hudson


David Josephs
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Bill,

I know you've said that BDM is the same figure in Moorman's Polaroid , I just can't believe it, given that no human is visible behind the wall in Mooreman.

Todd

In my view ... There cannot be someone moving to the ground/waving arms/ or anything else in the Nix film and they not be seen in Moorman's photo for they are both showing the same location at the same moment in time.

Bill

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You see someone behidn the wall Dean?

The copy from Moorman's Polaroid is so poor that I can barely make out the wall ... let alone any other details. When there is so many better prints available ... why would the one shown in Dean's post being used?

Bill

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Bill,

I know you've said that BDM is the same figure in Moorman's Polaroid , I just can't believe it, given that no human is visible behind the wall in Mooreman.

Todd

l_8421b92988ed48bb8eafea5203e68409.jpg

Dean, this crop of the Moorman5 photo seems to be added with Gaussian motion blur.

Thats a really good technique to recognize shapes within degenerated old photos.

Many people in the research community do the mistake to sharpen these kind of photos. It doesn't help at all.

To be honest, at first i thought it is a picture i've once posted.

This picture was for me 2 years ago the reason to join the JFK research community.

I stumbled over Robin Unger's great Photo Gallery on Duncan's forum at that time and found a copy

of this Moorman photo. http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/gallery/index.php?cat=3&page=4

There a many different copies of the photo. No one with the quality like this.

I mean the light balance.

I was stunned to find a shape behind the wall. I looked again over and over.

I searched than through the current JFK Forums (Lancer, Ed& Duncan's Forum) and found no entry regarding this shape.

I said OK, post it and see what the others say.

The response was small, whether pro or contra.

The photographic evidence is since 2 years my hobby horse and i've spend a lot of time

analyzing the photographs and thank Robin and others i learned a lot.

Some of my views, i've rejected. But not this.

It's still my believe that this person behind the wall in Willis and Betzner has not left his position

in Moorman. The size of this shape is exactly the same as in Willis and Betzner. It fits.

In particular in Betzner it appears to me clear that this person is wearing a hat.

I know the majority of the JFK Research community will disagree with me about it.

Most have their own theories about what have happend behind the wall during the shooting.

I respect it.

And i cannot say for certainty i'am right but i would bet a lot of money that BDM in Moorman

is BDM in Willis and Betzner.

I hope future generation technology can support or reject my thought.

I hope for open minds.

bdmani1.gif

Thanks for posting it, Dean.

best to you

Martin

Edited by Martin Hinrichs
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Thank you Martin for posting the image that helps show Todd what im seeing, I have another saved that I will try to find, I dont know who did it but its helpful

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You see someone behidn the wall Dean?

The copy from Moorman's Polaroid is so poor that I can barely make out the wall ... let alone any other details. When there is so many better prints available ... why would the one shown in Dean's post being used?

Bill

By all means Bill please post a better blow up image of the area behind the wall in Moorman

I would love to have a better blow up

I doubt you will be able to find one thats better then the one I posted but if you have one or can find one post away.

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do my best Bill...

Let's start with Yarborough:

As noted previously, Arnold's story was first publicized in a Dallas Morning News story of August 27, 1978. A follow-up story of Sunday, December 31, 1978, again authored by Earl Golz, noted, "Some assassination researchers said they doubted Arnold's story because they could not find him in photographs and movie film taken at the time of the assassination."

64 Earl Golz, "Panel Leaves Question of Impostors," Dallas Morning News, December 31, 1978.

However, Golz wrote, Arnold's "presence on the grassy knoll was confirmed Saturday by former U.S. Sen. Ralph Yarborough of Texas, who was riding in the motorcade two cars behind the presidential limousine. He was a passenger in a car with Vice President Lyndon Johnson and Mrs. Johnson." 65 Earl Golz, "Panel Leaves Question of Impostors," Dallas Morning News, December 31, 1978.

"Immediately on the firing of the first shot I saw the man you interviewed throw himself on the ground," Yarborough told The News. "He was down within a second of the time the shot was fired and I thought to myself, 'There's a combat veteran who knows how to act when weapons start firing.'" 66 Earl Golz, "Panel Leaves Question of Impostors," Dallas Morning News, December 31, 1978.

In his affidavit submitted to the Warren Commission, Yarborough stated, "I heard three shots and no more. All seemed to come from my right rear. I saw people fall to the ground on the embankment to our right, at about the time of or after the second shot, but before the cavalcade started up and raced away." (Warren Commission Hearings, Vol. VII, p. 440.)

Yarborough elaborated slightly upon his statement ten years later, in The Men Who Killed Kennedy:

During that shooting my eye was attracted to the right. I saw a movement and I saw a man just jump about ten feet like at the old time flying tackle in football and land against a wall. I thought to myself, "There's an infantryman who's either been shot at in combat or he's been trained thoroughly: the minute you hear firing, get under cover."

Yarborough saw someone "jump about ten feet like at the old time flying tackle in football and land against a wall;" Gordon Arnold said he "hit the dirt" behind the concrete wall. 67 Earl Golz, "SS 'imposters' spotted by JFK witnesses," Dallas Morning News, August 27, 1978.

Gordon Arnold said he was in uniform that day; 68 Henry Hurt, Reasonable Doubt (New York: Henry Holt and Co., First Owl Book Edition, 1987), pp. 112-13.

Yarborough surmised that the bystander he saw was an infantryman or combat veteran, because he appeared to know "how to act when weapons start firing."

Was Yarborough describing Gordon Arnold, or someone else entirely?

In 1993 Ralph W. Yarborough was interviewed at his Austin home by historian David Murph of Texas Christian University. Murph reminded Yarborough that he had been quoted as saying he had witnessed a man on the grassy knoll throw himself down on the ground, and that the man had impressed him as a combat veteran.

Yarborough seemed puzzled to hear that his words had been applied to someone standing on the grassy knoll. That couldn't possibly be correct, he insisted repeatedly. "Remember where I was in the motorcade — with the Johnsons," he cautioned Murph, "too far back to have been able to see anyone [on the knoll] drop to the ground when firing began."

69 David Murph, e-mails to author, July 8 and 10, 2003. Thanks to David Perry for putting me in contact with Dr. Murph.

Whoever Yarborough had described (and there were many people in Dealey Plaza throwing themselves down on the ground as the shots rang out), 70 Journalist Hugh Sidey was a passenger in the motorcade. When the vehicle he was in turned the corner to Elm Street, he would recall, "It looked like a giant hand or wind had swept the place, everybody was lying down on the grassy knoll. At the curb there was a young man [probably a reference to eyewitness Bill Newman] with a little boy. He was hammering the ground with his fist, with his other arm over the boy protecting him, just in anguish." (The Newseum with Cathy Trost and Susan Bennett, President Kennedy Has Been Shot [Naperville, Ill.: Sourcebooks, Inc., 2003], p. 25.)

Nice job with mentioning Yarborough ... I spoke to Golz in some detail about all of this. You may recall much of this has been covered in the past on this forum and Lancer's, but I will touch on it again.

Yarborough probably did believe he saw Arnold on the first shot back in 1978. The reason for my saying this is because in Altgens #6 ... Yarborough still seems to be smiling and oblivious to any shots being fired. The same can be said about others like Charles Brehm who are still clapping up to that point. Seeing how Yarborough and JFK were friends ... I think we can agree that a smiling Yarborough probably means that he is unaware at that moment that shots are being fired at the motorcade. This means that the next shot(s) were the first ones he recognized, thus he called the kill shot the first shot.

By the time the Men Who Killed Kennedy came along ... Ralph was most likely aware that shots were fired earlier than he thought during his initial interviews, thus he said 'during the shooting'. The fact is that Golz said to me that Yarborough knew that the service man above the wall was the man he had seen. Others that fell to the ground were Malcomb Summers, Woodward, the Hester's, and Bill Newman ... however none of them were behind the wall above the knoll which is what Yarborough made clear to Earl. People tend to limit themselves to the few lines they have seen in print or heard from an edited interview, but there was lots more. Golz mentioned that his notes and letters from Yarborough would be donated to the University ... I don't recall which one at this time. All I am doing is offering more details pertaining to Yarborough that I learned from Golz.

The Murph thing was a joke! I often wonder if Murph tried to make it appear Yarborough was confused because Murph said to Ralph that the Senator said he saw someone go to the ground at the first shot and this is what puzzled Ralph for by that time he knew his car could not have been in position to see the knoll. As I said before, the 'first shot' comment came at a time that Yarborough had first become aware that a shot was fired ... this is supported by his still looking happy in Altgens 6. There was no confusion in 1978 or at the time he did TMWKK 10 years later. Ralph still had enough wits to him to catch the wording error Murph offered him, so some have opted to believe that Yarborough told the same story for years and somehow was confused several decades later and not long before his death. In the end it was the man in a military uniform behind the wall that Yarborough told Golz her had seen in 1978.

Bill

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By all means Bill please post a better blow up image of the area behind the wall in Moorman

I would love to have a better blow up

I doubt you will be able to find one thats better then the one I posted but if you have one or can find one post away.

Martin,

Jack White has posted the better image several times over the years, thus you can probably do a search on this site to see it. The scan some of you keep using is the drum scan and its clarity is poor. Mack tells me:

Many are using the "drum scan" image of Moorman,

which is a terrible source for any studies. The drum scan was done

recently from a copy negative made for Josiah Thompson several years after

the assassination, which was long after the original Polaroid had

deteriorated and lost most of its clarity. The scan is junk.

Jack and Mack used a copy of the Moorman photo that was made prior to the Moorman photo becoming deteriorated and is why their image of that area is far superior to all the rest. This has been explained in the past which puzzles me why people who were certainly researchers at that time would still post the worst copy available instead of the best

The illustration of Arnold that Duncan posted years ago is flawed. I have said this many times and will say it again ... If one see's the Duncan scaling as proving the figure is too short to be human, then they are ignoring the Nix film showing this individual standing above the wall and then going to the ground. Whether Duncan or anyone else can understand the error in that particular scaling ... the fact remains that there are two film sources showing someone between the wall and the fence - one a still photo and the other a movie film.

Bill

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By all means Bill please post a better blow up image of the area behind the wall in Moorman

I would love to have a better blow up

I doubt you will be able to find one thats better then the one I posted but if you have one or can find one post away.

Martin

Are you replying to me or Martin?

I will assume you put his name on accident

I have like 20 different copies of Moorman on my computer, that is the best blowup I have of that area

I will countinue to use it until I come across a better blowup of that area

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By all means Bill please post a better blow up image of the area behind the wall in Moorman

I would love to have a better blow up

I doubt you will be able to find one thats better then the one I posted but if you have one or can find one post away.

Martin

Are you replying to me or Martin?

I will assume you put his name on accident

I have like 20 different copies of Moorman on my computer, that is the best blowup I have of that area

I will countinue to use it until I come across a better blowup of that area

it this it Jack ??THE JACK GARY MOORMAN FBI PRINT...I AM NoT SURE IF THIS IS THE ONE THAT IS of SUBJECT.....best b

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Thanks B

you just beat me to the punch.

I was about to post the Moorman FBI Copy :rolleyes:

JFK Death in Dealey Plaza has the FBI Version zoomed in, i will see if i can find a good close up of the area.

thanks robin, i was not sure if that was what was mentioned, there are so many different copies, within...take care b

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Thanks B

you just beat me to the punch.

I was about to post the Moorman FBI Copy :rolleyes:

JFK Death in Dealey Plaza has the FBI Version zoomed in, i will see if i can find a good close up of the area.

thanks robin, i was not sure if that was what was mentioned, there are so many different copies, within...take care b

I think that is probably the best one to work with Bernice, as it was made before the polaroid started to deteriorate, and before the thumb print.

Moorman FBI Copy Crop

Edited by Robin Unger
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Thanks B

you just beat me to the punch.

I was about to post the Moorman FBI Copy :rolleyes:

JFK Death in Dealey Plaza has the FBI Version zoomed in, i will see if i can find a good close up of the area.

thanks robin, i was not sure if that was what was mentioned, there are so many different copies, within...take care b

I think that is probably the best one to work with Bernice, as it was made before the polaroid started to deteriorate, and before the thumb print.

Moorman FBI Copy Crop

I found his crop above also...i guess it comes down to whatever the majority of the photographer researchers decide on at any particular time within,, but then again that also changes as we know, as better work is released,but i must say it is a great copy of the moorman...,ta b..

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