Where in Altgens6 is LBJ?

[John Dolva]

No worries, hopefully a mod will take note and see what's going on. Happy Halloween.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

We don't see LBJ, obviously because Youngblood has already pushed him down. We may be seeing Youngblood's back/butt however, although it's hard to see much detail in that area.

We ARE seeing Johnson because he has NOT been pushed down by Youngblood yet.

What we are looking at is Johnson, his left temple above his left ear being partly obscured by the rear view mirror.

In my subjective opinion, I see Lyndon Johnson in the Altgens photo just as Duncan posits. I also think that Lyndon Johnson, along perhaps with Allen Dulles, was the Mastermind of the JFK assassination. I think the psychopathic serial killer Lyndon Johnson is JUST ABOUT to duck when Altgens photo was taken. I do think we clearly see the sociopath Lyndon Johnson sitting upright as his Lincoln takes a right onto Houston Street as it turns off of Main.

I also think Rufus Youngblood LIED in this testimony at the prompting of Lyndon Johnson. I do not think Rufus ever jumped over the seat and pushed LBJ down. That is baloney.

Senator’s Ralph Yarborough's Suspicion of Lyndon Johnson

"There is the well-publicized story of Agent Rufus Youngblood, who reportedly threw himself on top of Vice President Johnson after the shooting began in Dealey Plaza.... Johnson, in a statement to the Warren Commission, mentioned the incident:

I was startled by a sharp report or explosion, but I had no time to speculate as to its origin because Agent Youngblood turned in a flash, immediately after the first explosion, hitting me on the shoulder, and shouted to all of us in the back seat to get down. I was pushed down by Agent Youngblood. Almost in the same moment in which he hit or pushed me, he vaulted over the back seat and sat on me. I was bent over under the weight of Agent Youngblood's body, toward Mrs. Johnson and Senator Yarborough....

However, former Texas senator Ralph Yarborough, who was sitting beside Johnson that day, told this author: 'It just didn't happen.... It was a small car, Johnson was a big man, tall. His knees were up against his chin as it was. There was no room for that to happen.' Yarborough recalled that both Johnson and Youngblood ducked down as the shooting began and that Youngblood never left the front seat. Yarborough said Youngblood held a small walkie-talkie over the back of the car's seat and that he and Johnson both put their ears to the device. He added: 'They had it turned down real low. I couldn't hear what they were listening to.'"

--Jim Marrs, Crossfire: The Plot that Killed Kennedy

Ralph Yarborough's Suspicion of the Warren Commission Investigators:

"A couple of fellows [from the Warren Commission] came to see me. They walked in like they were a couple of deputy sheriffs and I was a bank robber. I didn't like their attitude. As a senator I felt insulted. They went off and wrote up something and brought it back for me to sign. But I refused. I threw it in a drawer and let it lay there for weeks. And they had on there the last sentence which stated: 'This is all I know about the assassination.' They wanted me to sign this thing, then say this is all I know. Of course, I would never have signed it. Finally, after some weeks, they began to bug me. 'You're holding this up, you're holding this up' they said, demanding that I sign the report. So I typed one up myself and put basically what I told you about how the cars all stopped. I put in there, 'I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but for the protection of future presidents, they should be trained to take off when a shot is fired.' I sent that over. That's dated July 10, 1964, after the assassination. To my surprise, when the volumes were finally printed and came out, I was surprised at how many people down at the White House didn't file their affidavits until after the date, after mine the 10th of July, waiting to see what I was going to say before they filed theirs. I began to lose confidence then in their investigation and that's further eroded with time."

--Jim Marrs, Crossfire: The Plot that Killed Kennedy

Edited October 16, 2010 by Robert Morrow

[Steve Duffy]

Those ears are hard to miss... Duncan's post shows that a lot can be made from unclear images.

[Martin Hinrichs]

With all respect, but LBJ should be in broad sunlight and not in shadows.

Apart from that, that shadowshape is too close to LadyBird.

best

Martin

[Bernice Moore]

hi martin, agreed it appears he should be in sunlight. he , is in zapruder... b

trying again....

Coup d'Etat lbj youngblood http://karws.gso.uri...Coup_dEtat.html

Eyewitness to the Death of a President

Rufus W. Youngblood has more than a passing interest in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Like millions of Americans, the 1950 industrial engineering graduate remembers exactly where he was and what he was doing on Nov. 22, 1963. He was riding in a motorcade in downtown Dallas.

By Gary Goettling

Photographed by Margaret Barrett <IMG alt=A align=left width=36 height=36>s the special agent in charge of the vice presidential Secret Service detail. Youngblood rode in an open Lincoln convertible with Vice President Lyndon Johnson, Lady Bird Johnson, Texas Sen. Ralph Yarborough and a driver. Only a Secret Service follow-up car separated him from the president's limousine, and the violence that unfolded there with graphic finality on a warm Dallas afternoon 28 years ago. Who killed Kennedy? It's a question Youngblood has been asked hundreds of times, and his firm answer defies popular opinion: "Lee Harvey Oswald." "I support the findings of the Warren Commission. [Conspiracy theorists] have had investigation after investigation, and nobody has come up with anything concrete. Nothing." Actor Kevin Costner "should have stuck to dancing with wolves," Youngblood says tartly, referring to the movie "JFK." Although he says that he has not seen the Oliver Stone film, he is familiar with its premise, which implicates Lyndon Johnson and the Secret Service in a massive conspiracy to assassinate President John F. Kennedy and cover up the crime. Stone, he notes, "is making a whole bunch of money from it," a motive that he believes drives other conspiracy proponents as well. Youngblood has not read any of the dozens of "conspiracy books" that promulgate theories ranging from CIA plots to French hit-men, but he is generally familiar with their assertions. In particular, he labels as "ridiculous" an upcoming book that blames the assassination on "friendly fire" from a Secret Service agent. "I don't think any Secret Service guy fired his weapon down there that day. I could look ahead and see [George] Hickey, an agent in the president's follow-up car, who had the AR-15 [rifle]. He stood up and looked, but didn't see anything to fire at." Kennedy's body was removed from Parkland Hospital by the Secret Service and flown back to Washington aboard Air Force One, technically in violation of Texas law which states that homicide victims must be autopsied in-state. Many conspiracy proponents point to that as evidence of Secret Service complicity in an assassination cover-up. "That's nitpicking," Youngblood says. "I was telling Johnson that the safest thing for us was to get out of there and get back to Washington. He said that we were not leaving without Mrs. Kennedy, and she wasn't leaving without her husband's body. There was nothing sinister about it. Some people are just trying to make something up that isn't really there." Youngblood is particularly bothered because "children growing up are not going to know what to believe because apparently the adults don't know what to believe," he says, a reference to polls which indicate that over 70 percent of the public does not support the lone-gunman conclusion in the Warren Report. The bi-partisan Warren Commission did a thorough investigation of the crime, including the subsequent killing of Oswald, and reached the most reasonable and logical conclusions, Youngblood says. Acknowledging that there are some "honest skeptics," Youngblood believes that more people would concur with the commission's findings--if they read them. "I'd say that 90 percent of the public has never read [the summary]," says Youngblood who keeps a bound copy of the report on a living-room bookshelf. And although he has not read all 26 volumes himself, he has read the two-inch-thick summary, and reviewed the other volumes. Youngblood is seated on a cloth sofa at the comfortable ranch in Savannah that he shares with his wife, Peggy, and a Siamese cat named ODK. "That stands for Out-Door Kitty," smiles the 68-year-old Atlanta native. The home is sprinkled with reminders of his alma mater, from the Georgia Tech license plate on the Toyota van parked at the head of the driveway to the small matted Tech Tower print in the foyer. Color photographs of children--the couple has four--and grandchildren are scattered throughout the spacious living room. Atop a cabinet rests a gray scale model of a B- 17, similar to the aircraft in which Youngblood had flown as a waist-gunner during World War II <IMG alt=Y align=left width=35 height=35>oungblood eases back on his couch to reflect on the circumstances that carried him from North Avenue to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. In 1946, fresh from military service with the Eighth Army Air Force, Youngblood enrolled at Georgia Tech, finishing the four-year industrial engineering curriculum in only three. "I was already married then and I had a kid and I had to work, so I wanted to get through and get out," he recalls. After graduating from Tech, Youngblood found a job with a consulting mechanical engineering firm, but soon a recession hit the profession and he was jobless again after only a few months. "I liked law enforcement and investigation," Youngblood says. "I'd even thought seriously about joining the FBI and went down to talk with them." When told that agents had to be either accountants or lawyers, Youngblood prepared to enter Mercer University's law school. "I got some law books and I read them," he says, "and they bored the hell out of me. I didn't want to be an attorney." He turned next to the Georgia Tech Alumni Placement office for help, which offered a promising lead: "The United States Secret Service is seeking qualified applicants for Special Agent positions, starting salary $3,825 per year." The job didn't require a law-enforcement background, just a college degree. "You did have to take a Civil Service examination and a Secret Service examination, which was primarily an aptitude test." Later, as Youngblood began his climb through the Secret Service ranks, he attended Treasury Department Enforcement School and the service's own training program. On March 26, 1951, Youngblood was sworn in as a special agent of the U.S. Secret Service, beginning a career that would last 20 years through five presidencies. At the time Youngblood was a rookie agent, the Secret Service, which comes under the auspices of the Treasury Department, had two basic functions: to investigate counterfeiting and other crimes involving government obligations, and to protect the president. The second mission has since been extended to include the vice president, presidential candidates, former presidents, and visiting heads of state. Youngblood spent most of his probationary period in the Atlanta field office working on check-forging cases. In June 1951, he got his first taste of the protective-duty side of the service when he was assigned to escort Vice President Alben Barkley on an Atlanta visit. When Barkley stepped down the ramp at Atlanta Airport, "there was one green agent there watching everything that moved," Youngblood laughs. "As far as I was concerned, the place was crawling with potential assassins, and I was ready for them." The next year, while on a 30-day assignment to Washington, Youngblood had his first encounter with a president. He was standing at his post outside the Oval Office when the door opened and Harry S. Truman stepped out into the hall, arms laden with papers and books. The president asked the young agent if he would help carry the material upstairs. "Why certainly, Mr. President," said the startled Youngblood, who realized that he was violating orders. But how could he refuse? <IMG alt=I align=left width=19 height=35>t was hardly an auspicious beginning, but the assignment convinced Youngblood that protective duty would be more interesting than investigative work, and his request for a transfer to Washington was approved. Besides the "glamour" of meeting famous people from every conceivable endeavor, what was so appealing about protective duty? "First of all, it's not glamorous," Youngblood corrects. "It might be for the first few months, but that diminishes. But it is a good education. You are where history is being made. "A lot of people wrongfully assume that a Secret Service agent on protective duty is principally a bodyguard. That is an aspect of what you do, but one of the main things is to make advance arrangements for presidential tours. That is a wide ranging thing that takes you all over the world. It is quite interesting." Youngblood notes that the objectives of a president and his Secret Service agents are often at odds. "The problem is that you have two missions in direct conflict--you have a political mission and a security mission. Neither one embraces the other, so you attempt to do whatever you can to provide a secure environment. "For instance, the armored car is one of the things we accomplished, but it took an assassination to get one. That's terrible. We had tried before for many, many years, but the presidents thought they'd be criticized for spending the money. "You could put the president in a secure building like the White House and let him talk to people through bars or over a telephone and not be exposed to the public. Even I don't want to see that. That is not what we should do in this country. "Actually, one of the safest things a president can do is go into a crowd as long as it's unplanned and unpublicized. The worst thing is to go sit at something outdoors like a football game for a couple of hours," he says. The biggest headache in providing Secret Service protection overseas is "getting cooperation from the embassies," according to Youngblood. "They have a lot of protocol, and they would sacrifice security for protocol. A lot of times you have to compromise a little bit, but you get it worked out." Some presidents have at first resisted Secret Service protection as an invasion of privacy, "but soon they realize they have more privacy by virtue of having us than they would if they didn't have us. "We don't interfere with their personal life," he adds. "When [President Johnson's daughters] Luci or Lynda had dates, we didn't go in the car with them. We would follow them in another car. We would be at restaurants where they went, but we didn't sit at the table with them. "When Truman sat down to play poker with his cronies, we took him to the place and we were there to bring him back, and we were guarding the building while he was there, but we didn't go in and intrude on the poker game." Secret Service agents are characterized by tact and discretion, and even after 20 years Youngblood is sparing in his descriptions of the personal side of the presidents he served. "Eisenhower was really great for relying on a table of organization," Youngblood says in response to criticism that the 34th president spent more time playing golf than making decisions. "You also have to remember that the country was a lot more peaceful during his administration. The problems we had during the Eisenhower administration and the Truman administration are almost nil when compared to the problems we are confronting today." Wasn't Truman known for his euphemistically termed "salty" language? "He wasn't near as salty as LBJ," Youngblood chuckles mischievously without elaboration. "Truman was extremely punctual. You could almost set your watch by him. On the other hand, LBJ was the kind of guy who said he'd rather be 10 minutes late than one minute early. "All of them were vain insofar as their appearance before the public was concerned. Ike was probably the least vain of the bunch. "I really liked them all," he insists. "They all had good points and bad points, and they often get the blame when things go wrong, but they don't get credit for the good things they do." But of all the presidents and vice presidents he served, Youngblood was closest to Johnson. "I had been with him all over the world from early in his vice presidency. I've seen the good and the bad. "The guy would chew me out for something the Air Force did, and chew out the Air Force for something I did--that sort of thing. He never would apologize, but he would turn around and do something nice for you. But he would never say, 'Look, I'm sorry I fussed at you.' "Sometimes I tried to argue with him--I should say that I tried to reason with him, because he was going to get his point made, regardless." Youngblood likes to tell the story about a White House phone call he received at home one night. Clutching an imaginary receiver, he murmurs, "Yes sir . . . yes . . . yes sir . . . yes, Mr. President." When his wife asked what the call had been about, Youngblood said, "Oh, he just chewed me out for something I wasn't really guilty of." "Well," she replied, "it used to be that you got chewed out by the vice president. Now you're getting chewed out by the president. You've come up in the world!" Frustration over the Vietnam War exacted a heavy emotional and physical toll on Johnson, Youngblood remembers. "He couldn't sleep at night, and would go over to the Situation Room where they had constant flow of information, to see what had come in." Youngblood, who made trips to Vietnam with Johnson as vice president and again as president, believes that "he had too much bad advice." Youngblood maintains close ties to the Johnson family, and has accepted an invitation to the LBJ Ranch to help celebrate Lady Bird's 80th birthday on Dec. 22. <IMG alt=I align=left width=19 height=35>n 1971, at age 47, Youngblood retired from the Secret Service as deputy director. "One of the good things you learn at Georgia Tech is mathematics," he says. "I figured that if I kept working, with the costs of commuting and all, that I'd be getting only about 40 percent of my salary. But if I retired, with the pension I'd be getting 60 percent." There were also some not-too-subtle hints coming from the White House. Youngblood who had always enjoyed a close relationship with presidential assistants--Democrat and Republican--sensed a "dramatic change" in the tenor of the Nixon administration. "Haldeman and Ehrlichman--I didn't cotton to them. They weren't exactly my bosses, but they wouldn't invite me to meetings and things like that. So I just couldn't see any sense in staying on any longer." In 1973, Youngblood finished a book about his career titled 20 Years in the Secret Service: My Life with Five Presidents. The publisher, Simon and Schuster, sent him on a publicity tour that included appearances on "The Tonight Show" and "Today." Youngblood, who spent two years on the project, was disappointed in sales. "They [simon and Schuster] sent me on this tour when the book wasn't even in stores yet," he recalls. He says that the publisher concentrated its attention and resources into promoting another title that year. "My book was up against Joy of Sex. I didn't have a chance," he shrugs. Inevitably the conversation drifts back to 1963 and the tragedy that staggered the world--and put Rufus Youngblood's name in a hundred reporters' notebooks. Up until the time the presidential motorcade turned onto Elm Street, "it looked like just another very successful political trip," Youngblood remembers. "They wanted crowds, and they got crowds." As the procession crawled into Dealey Plaza, Youngblood glanced up at the clock on the roof of the Texas School Book Depository. It flashed 12:30. Less than a minute to the freeway, and only five minutes to the Trade Mart, he thought. That instant, piercing through the shouts of the thinning crowd, and the stuttering and backfiring of police motorcycles, Youngblood heard the shattering crack! of a rifle. His reaction was immediate and instinctive. "Get down!" he yelled. "GET DOWN!" And in the time it takes to pull the bolt of a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, Youngblood had vaulted over the back of the limousine seat onto Vice President Johnson, pushing him to the floor of the Lincoln convertible and shielding Johnson's body with his own. Johnson, in his statement to the Warren Commission, said that Youngblood reacted immediately after the first shot and was sitting on top of him by the time the second shot and fatal third shot were fired into Kennedy. Youngblood's heroic action earned him the Treasury Department's highest honor, the Exceptional Service Award, presented by President Johnson on Dec. 4, 1963. In his own testimony before the Warren Commission, Youngblood said: "As we were beginning to go down this incline, all of a sudden there was an explosive noise. I quickly observed unnatural movement of crowds, like ducking or scattering, and quick movements in the presidential follow-up car. So I turned around and hit the vice president on the shoulder and hollered, 'Get down,' and then looked around again and saw more of this movement, and so I proceeded to go to the back seat and get on top of him." From his position, Youngblood noticed "a grayish blur in the air above the right side of the president's car light after the third shot. "There were shouts from ahead, then the cars in front of us lurched forward toward the underpass. I yelled to our driver, 'Stay with them and keep close!'" From his uncomfortable sprawled position on the back seat, Johnson asked what had happened. Youngblood replied that the president had been shot, and that they were headed to the hospital. "My God! They've shot the President!" exclaimed Sen. Yarborough, who shared the back seat of the limousine with the vice president. Lady Bird Johnson, seated between the two men, cried out. "Oh no. That can't be!" <IMG alt=A align=left width=36 height=36>fter arriving at the hospital, the vice president climbed out of the car, rubbing his stiff shoulder, giving rise to early erroneous press reports that Johnson had also been wounded in the attack. Still unsure if a larger plot to assassinate all top government officials was being deployed, Youngblood worked quickly to sequester Johnson. "President Kennedy was practically dead when they arrived at the hospital," Youngblood says. "He had a little pulse, but for all practical purposes he was gone. At the time, I didn't know how badly wounded the president was, but I did know that if he was incapacitated in some way, then Johnson was next in line, so I acted accordingly." All accounts of the events immediately following the assassination, up through the time when the airplane carrying a new president and a slain president touched down at Andrews Air Force Base, single out Youngblood for maintaining his composure and professionalism in the face of absolute pandemonium. Eventually the enormity of it all caught up with him, and when he returned home after the longest day of his life, "I really broke down," Youngblood says. Lyndon Johnson, on the other hand, did not receive universal high marks for his performance after the assassination, mostly from people who felt that he had jumped into the presidency with more enthusiasm than appropriate or necessary. "I'm really surprised at a lot of the things that have been written," Youngblood says. "Some nasty things have been said about him, and the guy could not have been any more considerate toward the president's family and the president's staff. I mean, not only on that day and the flight back, but through the ensuing months and even years. They didn't treat him as nicely as he treated them." Youngblood is still dogged by the Kennedy assassination--not so much by the past as the present; by the outrageous speculation and accusations of people who literally spent years dissecting decisions made in a few chaotic minutes or seconds. Once upon a time it may have hurt, and sometimes it still makes him angry. But mostly he is just tired of it. "I wish they would just put it to rest, he sighs. "But they won't--not as long as someone can make a buck off it."

Ike's Rogue Golf Cart

<IMG alt=G align=left width=37 height=37>olf carts were just coming into vogue in the early fifties, and Ike often enjoyed driving his own cart. One warm spring afternoon on Augusta National, Ike tooled his cart up to the edge of the green where his ball lay just off the putting surface. The moment he took his foot off the accelerator it was apparent that something was wrong, as the cart continued on under full power. Faced with a long downhill run to a creek, Ike made his decision and bailed out. But the driverless cart circled back sharply, and for a few tense moments a strange procession moved across the lush fairway--the president of the United States in the lead, running for all he was worth, a rogue golf cart at his heels, and half a dozen Secret Service agents tearing along in pursuit. There was some shouted discussion as to whether the thing should be shot just as three agents overtook it and, like a dogie at a rodeo, bulldogged it over onto its side. --From: 20 Years in the Secret Service

Presidential Snapshots

HARRY S. TRUMAN: He was an immaculate dresser, probably a carryover from his days when he was haberdasher. He was also one of the most brilliant historians I ever ran across. He did a lot of reading of history as a hobby. It was always quite interesting to listen to him. DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER: I thought of him as my commanding officer. I felt like we had won World War II together. He spent a lot of time in Augusta on the golf course, and since I was a Georgian familiar with the area, I would often accompany him on those trips. JOHN F. KENNEDY: I think he was the epitome of charisma. I don't believe we used that word very much back in those days, but I think that if anybody had it, he had it. He was energetic, and it was a pleasure to work around him. LYNDON B. JOHNSON: Of all the presidents, he was probably the most professional politician. Politics was his hobby. He was also the most down-to-earth human being who was in the White House during my time there. Little things bothered the hell out of him. He said to me once that the big decisions didn't bother him, but some of the little bitty things.... He would tell you how to turn a screw clockwise or counterclockwise. RICHARD M. NIXON: I was not assigned to him for any length of time, but I did have a couple of short temporary assignments--including a campaign visit to Atlanta in 1960. I liked Nixon when he was vice president, but when he came in as president, time had done something to him.

The Senator who Suspected a JFK Conspiracy YOUNGBLOOD DID NOT JUMP OVER LBJ

However, former Texas senator Ralph Yarborough, who was sitting beside Johnson that day, told this author: 'It just didn't happen.... It was a small car, Johnson was a big man, tall. His knees were up against his chin as it was. There was no room for that to happen.' Yarborough recalled that both Johnson and Youngblood ducked down as the shooting began and that Youngblood never left the front seat. Yarborough said Youngblood held a small walkie-talkie over the back of the car's seat and that he and Johnson both put their ears to the device. He added: 'They had it turned down real low. I couldn't hear what they were listening to.'"

--Jim Marrs,

Crossfire: The Plot that Killed Kennedy

http://senatoryarborough.tripod.com/

TA DA WORKED... :)b..

Edited October 16, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Bill Miller]

I also think Rufus Youngblood LIED in this testimony at the prompting of Lyndon Johnson. I do not think Rufus ever jumped over the seat and pushed LBJ down. That is baloney.

Have you looked at the film footage showing the VPs car heading into the underpass to see if the Agent is up in the car or not ... it may be helpful.

Bill

[Bill Miller]

With all respect, but LBJ should be in broad sunlight and not in shadows.

Apart from that, that shadowshape is too close to LadyBird.

best

Martin

The shadow on the Agent is much like the one on the drivers face. If you look closely, LBJ was over near his side of the car with his arm resting over the edge. The real LBJ that I pointed to on page one of this thread is in sunlight. It's just a matter of being able to read the photo correctly. The print you have seen in this thread is not of the best image quality. The best print I ever saw was one that Josiah Thompson had and it was easy to see LBJ.

Bill

[John Dolva]

With all respect, but LBJ should be in broad sunlight and not in shadows.

Apart from that, that shadowshape is too close to LadyBird.

best

Martin

Martin, I think you are absolutely correct in locating LBJ.

[Bill Miller]

Martin, I think you are absolutely correct in locating LBJ.

Well if looking at how far Johnson was against the door panel during his ride down Houston Street didn't tell you anything, then get out a toy car (the die cast scaled limo that was sold would be optimal) and turn it to your field of view as it is in Altgens 6 and see how the 5 passengers align with each other. This is old stuff that was debunked long ago.

Bill

[John Dolva]

That's great Bill. So we don't need to revisit it again anytime soon I hope?

[Bill Miller]

That's great Bill. So we don't need to revisit it again anytime soon I hope?

By all means ... people can get a good print and Johnson will still be against the side panel and the Agent will still be in the process of turning around. Compare the Agent's profile to LBJ - lighten the print - what ever ... it will never change a thing. Just as the driver's head is between Yarboroughs and Lady Bird's ... the other Agents head is between Lady Bird's and Johnson's.

Bill

Edited October 17, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Bernice Moore]

as posted showing lbj in sunlight in zapruder, b

Edited October 18, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Guest Robert Morrow]

as posted showing lbj in sunlight in zapruder, b

I think you guys have figured it out. The dark blob is Secret Service Agent Rufus Youngblood. He is sitting in front of Lady Bird but appears next to hear. The guy in the light, hugging the door is LBJ.

Looking at the Altgens photo LBJ is to the far left. Or front LBJ's point of view, he is sitting on the far right side of the rear of his Lincoln.

Also, Rufus Youngblood and Lyndon Johnson look bit similar in my opinion.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Robert Morrow

[David Josephs]

I looked at this thread and what each person said concerning how they read the picture ... 'LBJ had already ducked' ... 'LBJ ducked down 40 seconds before the shooting' ... 'the photo has been retouched' ... 'the dark face is LBJ' ... all I was waiting for next was that the head I pointed out was too small to be human. (smile)

While there appears to have been a conspiracy, too much has been attributed to conspiracy because of mis-interpretation in reading the image. I'm glad that at least this matter was resolved.

Bill

Well, the only issue I was considering was the question of whether we see an upright LBJ in that photo. The Altens photo could not have been altered, because Altgens took his film directly to the AP, where it was processed and then wired out to hundreds of affiliated newspapers and magazines, before the authorities ever laid their hands on it.

And four people (Youngblood, Jacks, LBJ, and Ladybird) confirmed that Youngblood pushed LBJ down then. If memory serves, most of them said that happened after the first shot though of course, most witnesses only heard one of the early shots.

FWIW, I am not convinced that we are seeing an upright LBJ then, but I also fail to see why the issue is worth spending a lot of time on.

Hey there Robert....

I started the thread as an tangent to the GA=BDM thread since there is some question as to when Yarborough sees "the soldier hit the dirt" which he syas over and over was after the first shot.

Also after the first shot Rufus is supposed to have done his heroic deeds

By Altgens6, at z255, we ALL agree at least one shot if not two have been fired.

No one in that car looks as if they are reacting to anything, yet Yarborough does appear to be looking in the direction of the GK and where GA might be....

I like Martin's take on where LBJ is yet I have a concern with it... In Bernice's image LBJ is wearing sunglasses... he may have taken them off yet we do not see the glasses' arms in Altgens6. It SEEMS that is the right place for him as he is indeed hugging the side of the car. Yet he seems awfully small given how close he should have been in the back of that car and how much larger than Lady B he was.... as well as being so far over to the right...

So the point of examining this issue helps determine the GA bona fides. Both GA and Yarborough speak of dropping to the ground after the first shot "heard". If GA's shot is diff from Yarborough's then GA was not the guy he sees... if it is the same shot... GA cannot be standing and filming in Moorman.

I tend to discount anything Yarborough says about LBJ... just from an early reading of Manchester's book... they hated each other and I cannot think of any reason the Senator would support ANYTHING LBJ was supposed to have said. Given that... where is that lightening quick reaction on Rufus' part by z255? Does this suggest that from z205 till ?? we have no reaction at all in LBJ's car.

Going now to look for any image showing what Rufus claims to have happened...

[Bill Miller]

I looked at this thread and what each person said concerning how they read the picture ... 'LBJ had already ducked' ... 'LBJ ducked down 40 seconds before the shooting' ... 'the photo has been retouched' ... 'the dark face is LBJ' ... all I was waiting for next was that the head I pointed out was too small to be human. (smile)

While there appears to have been a conspiracy, too much has been attributed to conspiracy because of mis-interpretation in reading the image. I'm glad that at least this matter was resolved.

Bill

Well, the only issue I was considering was the question of whether we see an upright LBJ in that photo. The Altens photo could not have been altered, because Altgens took his film directly to the AP, where it was processed and then wired out to hundreds of affiliated newspapers and magazines, before the authorities ever laid their hands on it.

And four people (Youngblood, Jacks, LBJ, and Ladybird) confirmed that Youngblood pushed LBJ down then. If memory serves, most of them said that happened after the first shot though of course, most witnesses only heard one of the early shots.

FWIW, I am not convinced that we are seeing an upright LBJ then, but I also fail to see why the issue is worth spending a lot of time on.

Hey there Robert....

I started the thread as an tangent to the GA=BDM thread since there is some question as to when Yarborough sees "the soldier hit the dirt" which he syas over and over was after the first shot.

Also after the first shot Rufus is supposed to have done his heroic deeds

By Altgens6, at z255, we ALL agree at least one shot if not two have been fired.

No one in that car looks as if they are reacting to anything, yet Yarborough does appear to be looking in the direction of the GK and where GA might be....

I like Martin's take on where LBJ is yet I have a concern with it... In Bernice's image LBJ is wearing sunglasses... he may have taken them off yet we do not see the glasses' arms in Altgens6. It SEEMS that is the right place for him as he is indeed hugging the side of the car. Yet he seems awfully small given how close he should have been in the back of that car and how much larger than Lady B he was.... as well as being so far over to the right...

So the point of examining this issue helps determine the GA bona fides. Both GA and Yarborough speak of dropping to the ground after the first shot "heard". If GA's shot is diff from Yarborough's then GA was not the guy he sees... if it is the same shot... GA cannot be standing and filming in Moorman.

I tend to discount anything Yarborough says about LBJ... just from an early reading of Manchester's book... they hated each other and I cannot think of any reason the Senator would support ANYTHING LBJ was supposed to have said. Given that... where is that lightening quick reaction on Rufus' part by z255? Does this suggest that from z205 till ?? we have no reaction at all in LBJ's car.

Going now to look for any image showing what Rufus claims to have happened...

Yarborough points ...

1) Altgens 6 appears to show a Yarborough who has yet to notice that an assassination is occurring.

2) Yarborough reads about Gordon Arnold on leave from the service and on the knoll beyond the wall and contacts Earl Golz to tell Earl that this is the man he saw fall to the ground during the shooting. Yarborough and Earl had several correspondences on this matter and Golz assured me that Yarborough was talking about the man in his article.

3) Yarborough in the Turner documentary has Yarborough saying that during the shooting he saw a man out of the corner of his eye dive to the wall.

4) Gordon Arnold said in the Turner interview that a shot was fired behind him that went passed his left ear which he reacted to by hitting the ground. Arnold placed that point in time as being when he had followed the President to a point which reflects the kill shot and not further back up the street when the first shot was said to have occurred.

5) Yarborough not long before his death had a problem with Murph saying that Yarborough had said he saw the man on the knoll go to the ground when the first shot was fired. (Some people have embraced the Murph interview with the aging Yarborough as their smoking gun that Ralph didn't see Arnold. The rebuttal to that is points 1 thru 4)

My memory of watching Groden's best film print ... I do not think LBJ had on his sunglasses when the VP car came down Houston.

Bill