DID ZAPRUDER FILM "THE ZAPRUDER FILM"?

[Mike Williams]

Where did the "crack" (very probably a through and through hole) in the limo windshield come form then? Was it yet another separate round (#4) or was it

a skull fragment that also was "magical" in that it broke off the head, flew over the chrome, and changed directions to strike the windshield from the front?

The windshield was damaged from the inside. Likely a fragment of the head shot as well. It has smears of lead, but no copper. It was merely a crack and there was no hole, as I have clearly demonstrated.

You still have my email? I know you said you wanted to talk but I never heard back from ya. If you want I can PM you my cell number. Just a thought. I do enjoy the sane and civil conversations with you.

[Greg Burnham]

Send it on.

[Mike Williams]

roger that....you got it.

[Mike Williams]

The neck wound was not an entrance?

THen what was the track from back to front?

Better yet, if the back wound did not transit, which of course it did, how could JFK have suffered a hemo/pneumothorax?

In other words how could the upper right Pleura and upper right lung have sustained damage if not for a transiting bullet?

If the neck wound was an entrance, where did it go?

Please spare me the hog wash that a bullet impacting at a downward angle can not exit anatomically higher than it entered.

[Daniel Gallup]

The neck wound was not an entrance?

THen what was the track from back to front?

Better yet, if the back wound did not transit, which of course it did, how could JFK have suffered a hemo/pneumothorax?

In other words how could the upper right Pleura and upper right lung have sustained damage if not for a transiting bullet?

If the neck wound was an entrance, where did it go?

Please spare me the hog wash that a bullet impacting at a downward angle can not exit anatomically higher than it entered.

Mike your question has always interested me. As you know, the New York Times quotes Dr. Clark a few days after the assassiantion as saying the bullet entered Kennedy from the front, ranged downward and did not exit. I looked into this some time ago and found out that this was what Perry told him. I cannot recall my sources for Perry telling this to Clark, but the New York Times article is available to anyone. Of course how did Perry arrive at this conclusion? He must have seen the bullet/bullet track or inferred that it did not exit due to Dr. Carrico's manual examination of Kennedy's back underneath his shirt. Carrico detected no wound in the back at that time. A bullet ranging downward would cause the pneumothorax you wonder about. As to why it did not exit, I cannot say. Perhaps it was a bullet which caused a through and though hole in the windshield observed by several at Parkland hospital. Or perhaps not. One can only go by the observations of the doctors and nurses who saw the wound before Perry performed the trach. It had all the appearances of an entrance wound, and according to Perry, it "ranged downward." Well, that's my best shot. Respectfully, Daniel

[Mike Williams]

The neck wound was not an entrance?

THen what was the track from back to front?

Better yet, if the back wound did not transit, which of course it did, how could JFK have suffered a hemo/pneumothorax?

In other words how could the upper right Pleura and upper right lung have sustained damage if not for a transiting bullet?

If the neck wound was an entrance, where did it go?

Please spare me the hog wash that a bullet impacting at a downward angle can not exit anatomically higher than it entered.

Mike your question has always interested me. As you know, the New York Times quotes Dr. Clark a few days after the assassiantion as saying the bullet entered Kennedy from the front, ranged downward and did not exit. I looked into this some time ago and found out that this was what Perry told him. I cannot recall my sources for Perry telling this to Clark, but the New York Times article is available to anyone. Of course how did Perry arrive at this conclusion? He must have seen the bullet/bullet track or inferred that it did not exit due to Dr. Carrico's manual examination of Kennedy's back underneath his shirt. Carrico detected no wound in the back at that time. A bullet ranging downward would cause the pneumothorax you wonder about. As to why it did not exit, I cannot say. Perhaps it was a bullet which caused a through and though hole in the windshield observed by several at Parkland hospital. Or perhaps not. One can only go by the observations of the doctors and nurses who saw the wound before Perry performed the trach. It had all the appearances of an entrance wound, and according to Perry, it "ranged downward." Well, that's my best shot. Respectfully, Daniel

Daniel,

The first thing I would ask you to do is look at an article I wrote sometime ago. It shows rather conclusively that there was no hole in the windshield.

http://www.jfkballistics.com/AHoleInOne.html

Secondly, I can certainly understand the Doctors confusion if they thought there was no back exit. I wonder, is this the reason they just assumed the throat was an entrance?

Clearly what we do know is that Humes initially was just as dumbfounded to find a back wound....and no exit, and no bullet!

However when we put the pieces together, we see something.

We see a bullet hole in the back, with copper on the cloth (entrance indication). We have wound in the back we have a pneumo/hemothorax we have a wound to the throat. We have a deviated esphogus (indication of a hemo/pneumothorax).

Most significantly we have NO lead on the tie or the shirt! This is epic. It indicates exit, and not entrance.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Mike Williams

[Cliff Varnell]

One has to weigh these considerations, and to me there is nothing significant in the physical evidence that shows a shot from the front.

The throat wound was an entrance. It was described as such by the Parkland doctors and nurses, and the back wound

is too low to have been an entrance for a throat exit. The back wound was probed by Humes and Finck and

no transit through the body was found.

Tell ya what then Cliffy. Explain how Kennedy managed to have suffered a hemo/pneumo thorax during the shooting.

Citation, please, and what is the significance of this in regard to the throat entrance wound?

The Parkland staff only had a glimpse of that wound, and even at that at the most two people saw it. So I do not know who you are trying to fool.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. The Parkland staff described it as a wound of entrance.

Are you denying that?

So tell me there bucko....where did this front entering bullet go?

It dissolved. Either that or the projectile was removed. I go with dissolved, since JFK's actions

in the limo were consistent with two-second onset paralysis, consistent with blood soluble paralytics

developed for the CIA and DOD in the early 60's.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

The neck wound was not an entrance?

THen what was the track from back to front?

Better yet, if the back wound did not transit, which of course it did, how could JFK have suffered a hemo/pneumothorax?

In other words how could the upper right Pleura and upper right lung have sustained damage if not for a transiting bullet?

The neck x-ray shows a path on a line with the entrance including a bruised lung tip, a hairline-fracture

of the right T1 transverse, and a subcutaneous air pocket overlaying the C7 and T1 transverse processes.

Front to back -- where the round dissolved, most likely.

What other kind of round would leave an air pocket and no exit?

If the neck wound was an entrance, where did it go?

I go with dissolved. It's what the autopsists suspected the night of the autopsy.

Please spare me the hog wash that a bullet impacting at a downward angle can not exit anatomically higher than it entered.

Humes probed the wound with his finger and Finck probed the wound with a metal rod. There was

no transit.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

We see a bullet hole in the back, with copper on the cloth (entrance indication).

According to the FBI. We have reason to believe Hoover was "in" on the cover-up, so their Lab findings

are naturally taken with a grain of salt.

We have wound in the back we have a pneumo/hemothorax we have a wound to the throat.

Two separate shots. Obviously. And we have a witness to this -- SS Agent Glenn Bennett, who clearly

described the back shot as separate from the throat shot.

We have a deviated esphogus (indication of a hemo/pneumothorax).

So? Result of the throat shot.

Most significantly we have NO lead on the tie or the shirt! This is epic. It indicates exit, and not entrance.

The throat shot was above the shirt and tie.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Cliff Varnell

[Bernice Moore]

mike quote.''you are about as low as they come. The comical thing is that you do not even believe your own crap, you simply do it to make a buck. The sad thing is, the people of this good forum are your victims.

They deserve better than you Jimbo. No matter if they agree with my position on the assassination or not.

''

Mike you are talking daft, if you were not so much the ''gasbag ' you would not post such daft responses, you accuse dr.Jim of simply to make a buck''....for your information, he has for many, many years contributed any profits from his books, to further the research, he has helped support JFK Forums, and paid transportation for manys a young researcher to the Lancer conference,and others, who could not afford to do so on his own, in order to present their new updated research,for one and all. also answer me this, if say you, daffy or not wrote a book, you mean to tell me, it would be with the given that it make no profit, only cost you, money.....it would appear much better for if you got up to date before you make such accusations,b..

Edited April 8, 2011 by Bernice Moore

[David Andrews]

Quote:

If the neck wound was an entrance, where did it go?

I go with dissolved. It's what the autopsists suspected the night of the autopsy.

Cliff, do you have an opinion on whether a dissolving round could (or did) go through the windshield first?

Separate issue for all: When we see Connally swatting reflexively at the bullet, does his motion suggest he's reacting to a shot from the front, or from the rear? Can we infer anything from Kellerman's reaction? If a wasp had flown past them, which way would it have been flying? Call it strictly from their reactions, if you will.

Interesting to compare Connally's and Kellerman's reactions in this edit:

Edited April 8, 2011 by David Andrews

[Cliff Varnell]

Quote:

If the neck wound was an entrance, where did it go?

I go with dissolved. It's what the autopsists suspected the night of the autopsy.

Cliff, do you have an opinion on whether a dissolving round could (or did) go through the windshield first?

I can't see anyone aiming through the windshield. Any hole there was the result of a miss, imo.

The throat shot was a perfect hit.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Cliff Varnell

[Mike Williams]

Quote:

If the neck wound was an entrance, where did it go?

I go with dissolved. It's what the autopsists suspected the night of the autopsy.

Cliff, do you have an opinion on whether a dissolving round could (or did) go through the windshield first?

I can't see anyone aiming through the windshield. Any hole there was the result of a miss, imo.

The throat shot was a perfect hit.

Cliffy then all you have to do to support this position is get a bullet into the throat at a 90 degree angle, and not go through the windshield.

Of course there was no hole in the windshield, but lets just tinker to the looney for a minute and say there was. How would a round that supposedly dissolves in seconds in human tissue, survive an impact with glass?

From a ballistic standpoint this is as ridiculous as the Greer done it theory.

[Mike Williams]

The Parkland doctor's did NOT say that the neck wound was a wound of entry.

They said that it looked like an entrance wound.

Duncan,

Exactly!

The real issue here and the one they try to so desperately avoid, is how did he suffer the hemo/pneumo thorax?

[Cliff Varnell]

Quote:

If the neck wound was an entrance, where did it go?

I go with dissolved. It's what the autopsists suspected the night of the autopsy.

Cliff, do you have an opinion on whether a dissolving round could (or did) go through the windshield first?

I can't see anyone aiming through the windshield. Any hole there was the result of a miss, imo.

The throat shot was a perfect hit.

Cliffy then all you have to do to support this position is get a bullet into the throat at a 90 degree angle, and not go through the windshield.

Not at all. A shot from the BDM position circa Z190 was a clear shot. A shooter dressed as a policeman could

always claim that they were returning fire, should any questions be asked.

How many Dallas citizens would accuse a cop of shooting the President in 1963? It would have taken suicidal bravery.

Of course there was no hole in the windshield, but lets just tinker to the looney for a minute and say there was.

No thank you. It's not one of my favorite rabbit holes.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Cliff Varnell