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Second photo? Which "second photo," Paul?

Geez.

BTW, can you or can you not see the 45-degree scar I'm talking about on and above Morales' left eyebrow?

JFKmoralesF4.jpg

--Tommy :sun

Oh, I see the scar above the left eye, Tommy. I agree with that part of your scenario. That's David Morales in all those scenarios.

When I referred to the "second photo" I was referring to the one from a larger photograph taken in 1966 which a camera strap. In that photo Morales could easily be mistaken for a Negro, as some witnesses suggested on 11/23/1963 they saw a Negro at or around the TSBD building looking suspicious.

One witness said he saw a Negro on the 6th floor with a rifle. Could it be Morales? Perhaps. Could Morales have been driving the car that Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig saw? Perhaps.

My only point was that the film clip showing the tall slender man in a full suit with his back to the camera, scratching the back of his neck with his right hand -- well, his hand looks WHITE to me. The thing about folks with dark-complexions like David Morales is, they're dark all over. So, I doubt that guy would be David Morales.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

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Second photo? Which "second photo," Paul?

Geez.

BTW, can you or can you not see the 45-degree scar I'm talking about on and above Morales' left eyebrow?

JFKmoralesF4.jpg

--Tommy :sun

Oh, I see the scar above the left eye, Tommy. I agree with that part of your scenario. That's David Morales in all those scenarios.

When I referred to the "second photo" I was referring to the one from a larger photograph taken in 1966 which a camera strap. In that photo Morales could easily be mistaken for a Negro, as some witnesses suggested on 11/23/1963 they saw a Negro at or around the TSBD building looking suspicious.

One witness said he saw a Negro on the 6th floor with a rifle. Could it be Morales? Perhaps. Could Morales have been driving the car that Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig saw? Perhaps.

My only point was that the film clip showing the tall slender man in a full suit with his back to the camera, scratching the back of his neck with his right hand -- well, his hand looks WHITE to me. The thing about folks with dark-complexions like David Morales is, they're dark all over. So, I doubt that guy would be David Morales.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

I disagree with your statement that, in so many words, "dark-skinned people are dark all over."

Haven't you ever noticed, for example, that the palms and bottoms of the fingers of Black people are the same color as white folks'?

Oh well, at least I got you to admit that Morales had a scar that ran up his forehead an inch or two from his left eyebrow.

Since getting you to make any concession is like pulling teeth, I take that as a major accomplishment!

BTW, I wouldn't say that "Neck Scratcher" was "slender." The word "slender" connotes the word "skinny" in my mind. It's just more politically / socially correct to use the former in describing an in-law, for example.

I'd say "Neck Scratcher" had a very powerful, muscular, athletic build, like a light-heavyweight fighter, or a quarterback. or a safety. He definitely was not slender / skinny.

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Paul,

I disagree with your statement that, in so many words, "dark-skinned people are dark all over."

Haven't you ever noticed, for example, that the palms and bottoms of the fingers of Black people are the same color as white folks'?

Oh well, at least I got you to admit that Morales had a scar that ran up his forehead an inch or two from his left eyebrow.

Since getting you to make any concession is like pulling teeth, I take that as a major accomplishment!

BTW, I wouldn't say that "Neck Scratcher" was "slender." The word "slender" connotes the word "skinny" in my mind. It's just more politically / socially correct to use the former in describing an in-law, for example.

I'd say "Neck Scratcher" had a very powerful, muscular, athletic build, like a light-heavyweight fighter, or a quarterback. or a safety. He definitely was not slender / skinny.

--Tommy :sun

Well, it's true of many people, white, yellow, red, black and brown, that the backs of their hands tend to be a shade darker than the palms of their hands. It's probably because many people are out in the sun, with palms down, working.

But in that photograph of the tall man in the suit scratching the back of his neck with his right hand, we see the back of his hand as well as the fingertips -- and to me the back of his hand looks white. The man in the photograph has his back to the camera, and all we have to go on is his neck, his hair, and his right hand. In my subjective impression the man is was white.

This impression is stronger when I look upon that photo of David Morales with the camera strap around his neck -- when I first saw that photo I thought he was a Negro. He was a very dark Hispanic man.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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Paul,

At least I got you to admit that Morales had a scar that ran up his forehead an inch or two from his left eyebrow.

Since getting you to make any concession is like pulling teeth, I take that as a major accomplishment!

BTW, I wouldn't say that "Neck Scratcher" was "slender." The word "slender" connotes the word "skinny" in my mind. It's just more politically / socially correct to use the former in describing an in-law, for example.

I'd say "Neck Scratcher" had a very powerful, muscular, athletic build, like a light-heavyweight fighter, or a quarterback. or a safety. He definitely was not slender / skinny.

--Tommy :sun

[...]

n that photograph of the tall man in the suit scratching the back of his neck with his right hand, we see the back of his hand as well as the fingertips -- and to me the back of his hand looks white. The man in the photograph has his back to the camera, and all we have to go on is his neck, his hair, and his right hand. In my subjective impression the man is was white.

[...]

Dear Paul,

Questions:

Why doesn't the skin on the back of "Neck Scratcher's" neck appear to be as light-colored as the sides and tops of his fingers?

Do you think his fingers were in more direct (or indirect) light in the video than the back of his neck, making the back of his neck appear to be darker than it really was?

If he's a white man, wouldn't you expect him to have a white neck? Why does he appear to have a dark neck? Do you actually think he has a white neck in the video?

Answer: That's why I suggested that you rapidly freeze-frame (quickly go click-click, click-click, click-click, click-click, ... ) on the other suited guy who walks in from the left at 3:53 point 5 (just before "Neck Scratcher" does), so you could see that the first guy is a white guy, and so you could compare the first guy's very white neck and side of face in that very short lived "freeze-frame" with "Neck Scratcher's" neck under similar lighting conditions, and you could see that "Neck Sctatcher's" neck was considerably darker that the first guy's.

But you know something?

It feels like I'm trying to lead a mule to water.

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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This just in --

Look at how light-colored Morales' right index finger is in this photo:

JFKmoralesD2.jpg

--Tommy :sun

Edit:

And here's another dark guy with "white" fingers, Nestor Izquierdo. Included here as an example.

JFKIzquierdo1.jpg

Edited by Thomas Graves
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edited and bumped

Dear Paul,

IMHO, fingers and palms and backs of hands are more likely to be lighter in color than the rest of one's body when one is a Black person or a Hispanic person or an Indigenous person (an "Indian").

Questions:

Why doesn't the skin on the back of his neck appear to be as light-colored as his fingers?

Do you think his fingers were in more direct (or indirect) light in the video than the back of his neck, making the back of his neck appear to be darker than it really was?

If he's a white man, wouldn't you expect him to have a white neck? Why does he appear to have a dark neck? Do you actually think he has a white neck in the video?

Answer: That's why I suggested that you rapidly freeze-frame (quickly go click-click, click-click, click-click, click-click, ... ) as the other suited guy walks in from the left at 3:53 point 5 seconds (just before "Neck Scratcher" does), so you could see that the first guy is a white guy, and so you could compare the first guy's very white neck and side of face (in that very short-lived, easy-to-miss freeze-frame) with "Neck Scratcher's" dark neck under similar lighting conditions, and you could see that "Neck Scratcher's" neck is considerably darker that the first guy's.

--Tommy :sun

Well, Tommy, I'm trying to see what you see -- but I still don't.

For example, you want to say that the Neck Scratcher's neck is dark -- but that's unclear to me for the following reason. The guy in front of the Neck-Scratcher is clearly a white man -- we know this because we can see his face in part of the film. Then, the white guy in front of Neck-Scratcher turns his back to the camera, so we can see the back of his neck.

So -- I compare the back of the neck of this white man with the back of the neck of the Neck Scratcher, frame by frame. The shades of neck seem the SAME to me.

It has to do with shade and shadows. The necks of both men are shielded by their skull bones, and they don't get the same amount of sun that one sees on, well, the right hand of the Neck-Scratcher.

Sorry, but that's what I see. I can't agree that the Neck-Scratcher is a man with a dark-complexion -- given how dark-skinned David Morales really was, and how white the back of Neck-Scratcher's right-hand appears to be in this film.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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edited and bumped

Dear Paul,

IMHO, fingers and palms and backs of hands are more likely to be lighter in color than the rest of one's body when one is a Black person or a Hispanic person or an Indigenous person (an "Indian").

Questions:

Why doesn't the skin on the back of his neck appear to be as light-colored as his fingers?

Do you think his fingers were in more direct (or indirect) light in the video than the back of his neck, making the back of his neck appear to be darker than it really was?

If he's a white man, wouldn't you expect him to have a white neck? Why does he appear to have a dark neck? Do you actually think he has a white neck in the video?

Answer: That's why I suggested that you rapidly freeze-frame (quickly go click-click, click-click, click-click, click-click, ... ) as the other suited guy walks in from the left at 3:53 point 5 seconds (just before "Neck Scratcher" does), so you could see that the first guy is a white guy, and so you could compare the first guy's very white neck and side of face (in that very short-lived, easy-to-miss freeze-frame) with "Neck Scratcher's" dark neck under similar lighting conditions, and you could see that "Neck Scratcher's" neck is considerably darker that the first guy's.

--Tommy :sun

Well, Tommy, I'm trying to see what you see -- but I still don't.

[...]

Well, Paul, in that case I give up on you.

Perhaps an EF member (or two) who has better visual acuity than you (and who is able to follow my "click, click -- freeze frame" instructions) will chime in on this issue.

Have a nice day. Over and out.

--Tommy :sun

My absolute final "Parthian Shot" for Paul Trejo:

How do you explain the fact that the top of Neck Scratcher's hand, and his wrist, are so much darker than his fingers?

If he really were a white man, wouldn't the back of his hand (and his wrist) be just as light as his fingers?

Edited by Thomas Graves
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edited and bumped

Dear Paul,

IMHO, fingers and palms and backs of hands are more likely to be lighter in color than the rest of one's body when one is a Black person or a Hispanic person or an Indigenous person (an "Indian").

Questions:

Why doesn't the skin on the back of his neck appear to be as light-colored as his fingers?

Do you think his fingers were in more direct (or indirect) light in the video than the back of his neck, making the back of his neck appear to be darker than it really was?

If he's a white man, wouldn't you expect him to have a white neck? Why does he appear to have a dark neck? Do you actually think he has a white neck in the video?

Answer: That's why I suggested that you rapidly freeze-frame (quickly go click-click, click-click, click-click, click-click, ... ) as the other suited guy walks in from the left at 3:53 point 5 seconds (just before "Neck Scratcher" does), so you could see that the first guy is a white guy, and so you could compare the first guy's very white neck and side of face (in that very short-lived, easy-to-miss freeze-frame) with "Neck Scratcher's" dark neck under similar lighting conditions, and you could see that "Neck Scratcher's" neck is considerably darker that the first guy's.

--Tommy :sun

Well, Tommy, I'm trying to see what you see -- but I still don't.

[...]

Well, Paul, in that case I give up on you.

Perhaps an EF member (or two) who has better visual acuity than you (and who is able to follow my "click, click -- freeze frame" instructions) will chime in on this issue.

Have a nice day. Over and out.

--Tommy :sun

My absolute final "Parthian Shot" for Paul Trejo:

How do you explain the fact that the top of "Neck Scratcher's" hand, and his wrist, are so much darker than his fingers?

If he really were a white man, as you claim, wouldn't the back of his hand (and his wrist) and his neck be just as light as his fingers?

edited and bumped

Question: Does anyone here know how to "capture" a frame from a youtube video and then "paste" or upload it to this thread? The frame I'm talking about is at 3:55 and / or 3:56 of the "50 Reasons For 50 Years -- Episode 04" video by Black Op Radio. More precisely, that part of "3:55" or "3:56" which best shows the different skin tones of "Neck Scratcher's" (dark-complected ) hand and (light-complected ) fingers. Thanks!

Here it is:

Edited by Thomas Graves
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I was able to freeze frame at that exact moment. Clearly the man has dark skin.

Thanks for the confirmation and the "moral support," Paul. His dark skin is pretty obvious, isn't it, once one "freeze frames" it correctly?

So what we have here is a guy who is monitoring Oswald at the August 9 leafletting / arrest incident, and this guy is:

1 ) wearing a suit on a hot August-in-New Orleans afternoon,

2 ) is athletically built, with a bull neck, like David Sanchez Morales (who was on his high school track team and was a football star),

3 ) has short hair like David Sanchez Morales

4 ) has a head shaped like David Sanchez Morales'

5) has very dark skin, like David Sanchez Morales

6 ) has "white" fingers, like David Sanchez Morales (see photo, below)

JFKmoralesD2.jpg

In addition to all of the above, when we take into consideration the following cold hard facts:

1 ) David Sanchez Morales had, as I've recently shown, a one to-two-inch scar on his left eyebrow, and

2 ) Jim Garrison claimed that the "Spanish trace" (read: "Latin-looking") "Shepherd" (who was monitoring Oswald on 8/09/63) had a one inch scar on his left eyebrow, and

3 ) Jim Garrison said this Hispanic-looking guy was wearing a coat and tie on that hot August day in New Orleans, and

4 ) Jim Garrison said that Bringuier and Cruz noticed "The Shepherd" that day-- leading one to believe that that's who Garrison got "The Shepherd's" description from. It's interesting to note that neither Bringuier nor Cruz nor the six additional anti-Castro Cubans who accompanied them ("eight Cubans total rushed to the scene," according to Jim Doyle's family in a FBI report) -- recognized or knew this Hispanic-looking "Shepherd." Therefore it's reasonable to assume that this suit -wearing "Shepherd" was an "outsider."

... We are inexorably pushed to the conclusion that the dark-skinned, white-fingered, athletically-built "Neck Scratcher" caught in Jim Doyle's film was none other than the guy known as "El Indio" and "The Big Indian" -- David Sanchez Morales, an outsider, if there ever was one, who was at that time stationed at CIA's JM/Wave in Miami, not all that far from The Big Easy -- New Orleans..

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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I was able to freeze frame at that exact moment. Clearly the man has dark skin.

Thanks for the confirmation and the "moral support," Paul. His dark skin is pretty obvious, isn't it, once one "freeze frames" it correctly?

So what we have here is a very dark-skinned guy who is monitoring Oswald at the August 9 leafletting / arrest incident, and this guy is:

1 ) wearing a suit on a hot August-in-New Orleans afternoon,

2 ) is athletically built, with a bull neck, like David Sanchez Morales (who was on his high school track team and was a football star),

3 ) has short hair like David Sanchez Morales

4 ) has a head shaped like David Sanchez Morales'

5) has very dark skin, (did I already say that?) like David Sanchez Morales

6 ) has "white" fingers, like David Sanchez Morales (see photo,1969 - 1971 Vietnam, below)

JFKmoralesD2.jpg

In addition to all of the above, when we take into consideration the following cold hard facts:

1 ) David Sanchez Morales had, as I've recently shown, a one to-two-inch scar on his left eyebrow, and

2 ) Jim Garrison claimed that the "Spanish trace" (read: "Latin-looking") "Shepherd" (who was monitoring Oswald on 8/09/63) had a one inch scar on his left eyebrow, and

3 ) Jim Garrison said this Hispanic-looking guy was wearing a coat and tie on that hot August day in New Orleans, and

4 ) Jim Garrison said that Bringuier and Cruz noticed "The Shepherd" that day-- leading one to believe that that's who Garrison got "The Shepherd's" description from. It's interesting to note that neither Bringuier nor Cruz nor the six additional anti-Castro Cubans who accompanied them ("eight Cubans total rushed to the scene," according to Jim Doyle's family in a FBI report) -- recognized or knew this Hispanic-looking "Shepherd." Therefore it's reasonable to assume that this suit -wearing "Shepherd" was an "outsider."

... We are inexorably pushed to the conclusion that the dark-skinned, white-fingered, athletically-built "Neck Scratcher" caught in Jim Doyle's film was none other than the guy known as "El Indio" and "The Big Indian" -- David Sanchez Morales, an outsider, if there ever was one, who was at that time stationed at CIA's JM/Wave in Miami, not all that far from The Big Easy -- New Orleans..

--Tommy :sun

So, where was David Sanchez Morales on the afternoon of August 9, 1963, anyway? You know, about the time that Oswald was arrested for disturbing the peace in the 700 block of Canal Street?

"Officially," I mean.

Was there a "paper trail" created to cover his you-know-what? Hmmm?

Inquiring minds want to know!

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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And if he was with Oswald, what then? I sure hope someone here has a clue about his possible whereabouts.

Paul,

Me, too.

Larry Hancock comes to mind. I predict the answer will be "JM/WAVE station, Miami, Florida".

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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