Pamela Brown Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) I'm still trying to figure out what happened. Earlier this year, she was wearing a burka, and now she's running around, book signings etc, all out there, in a land that she left out of fear. Wonder what happened that she can spend so much time in the open. She's been here before, but if it's a fear thing, why the exposure? Might as well move back to the US. It would save her followers having to dish out even more money for plane tickets. Perhaps we could just begin with the premise that the 'dangers' were exaggerated to give Judyth whatever it was she really wanted, and now that is no longer necessary? :-0 It would also be my guess that she is remaining in the US in order to try to find backers for her 'movie' about Me and Lee...hopefully she will be completely unmasked before that happens... Edited December 5, 2014 by Pamela Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 If you were involved in an illicit affair, would you keep letters, receipts etc, Carmine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Carmine, beyond that I'm pretty sure that if she had been as involved and as visible to the conspirators as she has claimed its unlikely she would have lived passed Friday - a conspiracy brutal enough to kill a President is unlikely to leave obvious loose ends, especially with Oswald immediately in custody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Hello All, Indeed the Baker story has significant plot holes. She offers little actual corroborating evidence that can be verified or connects in anyway to Oswald. No pictures, no extensive hotel receipts, no loe letters with names and envelopes with addresses, no proof of any relation to Clay Shaw, Carlos Marcello, Guy Banister, David Ferrie, et al. as claimed by her assertions. She can prove for a brief period she worked at the same location as various other people, among them Lee Harvey Oswald. Anything beyond that in my view is improbable and unproven. Ironically, Judyth says she does have Lee's handwriting on the margin of a book that she says he gave her. But she has declined to have the handwriting authenticated by an expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 (edited) Carmine, beyond that I'm pretty sure that if she had been as involved and as visible to the conspirators as she has claimed its unlikely she would have lived passed Friday - a conspiracy brutal enough to kill a President is unlikely to leave obvious loose ends, especially with Oswald immediately in custody. Ironically, that's one of the excuses she gave for not coming forward to tell Jim Garrison about all of her 'evidence' that could have 'exonerated' Lee -- she said that Ferrie told her to be a 'vanilla girl' and stay under the radar or else she would be killed... Edited December 7, 2014 by Pamela Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Ray, Were I involved in as many plots as claimed by Baker I would imagine at least one verifiable item of substance could have been saved that could verify at least some of the many claims. Additionally in my view at least one of the many infamous people she allegedly associated with would have mentioned her at least once. It is not the job of the world to conform to her ideas but her job to prove them with reliable evidence. An additional irony is that Judyth's main 'witness' (Judyth conjured Anna up on her own and by doing so contaminated anything Anna might actually have had to say) was Anna Lewis, wife of David Lewis, whom Garrison did interview. David Lewis apparently told Garrison a number of tall tales, but not one of them included the 'evidence' that could have 'exonerated' Lee Oswald -- namely, the existence of Judyth and her bioweapon plot. It could be said that David Lewis was afraid to tell Garrison the real truth of what he knew, and for that reason fed him demonstrable lies, just to get him of his back, but I can't help but wonder why David (if he did indeed know of Judyth and her supposed relationship with Lee) didn't just throw Judyth under the bus in order to get Garrison off his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 KPFA has NOT returned my phone call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) KPFA has NOT returned my phone call. That is disappointing, but not really surprising. I should have warned you. Somehow I thought California might be more sophisticated in that way than Minnesota. I contacted the local papers and TV stations and a Strib gossip columnist whom I thought might have been approached by Judyth's team, as well as the bookstore in St. Paul where she had a signing, and the Edina and Eden Prairie branches of the library where she rented a room to speak, and did not hear anything in reply, except from the Library which said that anyone can rent a room there as long as they abide by certain rules, and that her talk had no connection with the Hennepin County Library system and therefore no endorsement... Edited December 8, 2014 by Pamela Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) Pamela, You are a font of useful JVB information. Her aversion to expert analysis just adds greater implausibility to her other unproven ideas.Clearing the field of unproven and improbable assertions is nearly as important as finding the evidence to disprove them and is largely thankless. Everyone can claim what they like, but must prove what they can. I appreciate all the prior and current work you and others undertake to clear up the many improbable assertions offered. Thank you, Carmine. I am beginning to find that my seven years in the Judyth camp, with all its twists and turns and of course the wildness of a rollercoaster ride ready to go off its tracks, I have learned something about how Judyth plots her path, and that is giving me a great deal of serenity and confidence as we all move forward. I am happy to provide whatever help I can... Edited December 8, 2014 by Pamela Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Do we know, by the way, how many employees there were at Reilly Coffee Company in the summer of 1963? I say this not because I believe Judyth's story, but because, assuming there were less than a hundred employees at Reilly Coffee Company that summer, it seems probable that she at least KNEW Oswald, if only a little, enough to say, "Hey you!" I think there were 100-140. It is not out of the question that she knew who Lee was or even knew him. They were hired the same day, which is interesting to me in that you might think they would have been processed through at the same time, but apparently that was not the case, as she does not mention that. In addition, according to Judyth, they did not even meet at Reilly, but, instead, at the Post Office (more romantic? :-0)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 If you were involved in an illicit affair, would you keep letters, receipts etc, Carmine? Fair enough, but you would think a romantic girl like Judyth would have been able to squirrel something away... Another item Judyth claims has a connection to Lee is a 'green glass' that he supposedly took off the line at Reily for her, from some sort of promotion, that might have had his fingerprints (but I think somehow it got washed) and a note from him (that somehow disappeared)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Pamela, Indeed. Many of the items offered as evidence could be acquired at a trade show or antique sale. I would also offer it is not coincidence that every infamous person she claims to have associated with never mentions her to anyone. Her many grand claims without substantiation at times challenge themselves. It is disheartening to see that some appreciate spectacle over verifiable evidence. Good points. And yet, she is still able to attract new believers. In addition, she has a core group in LA who have been pushing for quite a while to have her story made into a movie. I don't know how Judyth has achieved that, but that seems to be the case...:-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Roy Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 In Full Metal Jacket, a character who undergoes a conversion is said to be "born-again, hard." You've certainly undergone such a conversion. Thanks for seeing this thing realistically and thanks for your words of support for my work.As I sometimes do, I Googled "David Ferrie" a while ago. About half of the hits were Judyth Baker. Half the hits on this piece of history are this unproven, made-up story. Now there's a potential film. And her own conference. And more books. Maybe buying the grave next to Oswald. I won't even comment again on her, too-liberally borrowing my intellectual property without full credit. This is getting out of hand. I wonder if her adoring legion of Facebook romance readers know that virtually the entire research community has turned their backs on her stories. In just the past few days, she's been discussed in several forums. People on the CT side like yourself, Barb Junkkarinen, Jim DiEugenio, Larry Hancock, Dawn Meredith, Greg Parker. People like Vince Palamara and Ralph Cinque. LNs like John McAdams, Dave Reitzes and many people from alt.assassination.jfk. When all of these people agree, it's worth taking notice. There are enough genuine mysteries that we don't need to be be creating new ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 In Full Metal Jacket, a character who undergoes a conversion is said to be "born-again, hard." You've certainly undergone such a conversion. Thanks for seeing this thing realistically and thanks for your words of support for my work. As I sometimes do, I Googled "David Ferrie" a while ago. About half of the hits were Judyth Baker. Half the hits on this piece of history are this unproven, made-up story. Now there's a potential film. And her own conference. And more books. Maybe buying the grave next to Oswald. I won't even comment again on her, too-liberally borrowing my intellectual property without full credit. This is getting out of hand. I wonder if her adoring legion of Facebook romance readers know that virtually the entire research community has turned their backs on her stories. In just the past few days, she's been discussed in several forums. People on the CT side like yourself, Barb Junkkarinen, Jim DiEugenio, Larry Hancock, Dawn Meredith, Greg Parker. People like Vince Palamara and Ralph Cinque. LNs like John McAdams, Dave Reitzes and many people from alt.assassination.jfk. When all of these people agree, it's worth taking notice. There are enough genuine mysteries that we don't need to be be creating new ones. Good points, Stephen. As you know, I did my best to keep an open mind on everything Judyth had to say during the seven years I was involved with her (at her request). A part of me hoped that she was telling the truth, and was simply too controversial for the WC defenders. I was drawn into the drama of her personal life as well, wondering why such terrible things seemed to keep happening to her. When she ended up trying to be granted asylum in Sweden I was very concerned for her wellfare. Had it not been for the distrustful and sneaky way in which she treated me, and then turned on my when I explained that my agreement with her had been concluded upon the publication of her 'authorized' book in 2010, I might never have seen through her completely. So I am delighted to report that, yes, I survived the Judyth camp more or less in one piece, and am here to talk about it. And now is the time for all of us who have just had enough watching Judyth bully her way through the research community and attempt to create a false, revisionist, Judyth-centered JFK assassination history to band together and work in tandem, no matter what our personal thoughts or preferences may be. It may take the united front of WC defenders and CTs alike to fully unmask Judyth and prevent anything more from being developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I should point out that her followers are both eager and active. I've seen a number of recent posts on various Facebook groups with them promoting Me and Lee as essential reading on the case. That sort of fervor has a great impact on people new to JFK research and they too are very sincere so its extremely convincing to the novice. There really is no equivalent, very public push at libraries, metro newspapers and outlets etc going on so it really stands out and is just the sort of sensational and somewhat final solution that sells well from a PR standpoint. I expect to see her getting far more attention rather than less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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