Proof of Motorcade Stopping?

[Malcolm Ward]

Can we all agree that the reason for the hurried clean-up of the limo was to erase the existence of evidence or are there those among us that believe this action was legitimate?

I think it was part of the cover up Robert,would most Americans not have been Amazed to see the vehicle that JFK was murdered in be part of his funeral procession.

[Jon G. Tidd]

Malcolm,

Americans would have been shocked to see the limousine in the funeral procession.

It was known on the afternoon or evening of 11-22-63 that the limousine contained JFK's brain parts and blood.

To see the limousine in the funeral procession would have been shocking to Americans.

[David Josephs]

Pamela, you write with respect to Ferguson: "He had been told that LBJ wanted the limo cleaned up to use in the funeral on Monday."

Who told him this?

Was the limo ready for use in the funeral on Monday?

How credible was Ferguson? In this regard, did he have any problems such as with money, alcohol, personal relationships -- the sorts of problems that might have made him vulnerable?

The Secret Service Jon.

Piece of leather from the backseat of the Lincoln Continental in which President Kennedy was riding when he was tragically assassinated in Dallas, Texas. A haunting piece, literally cut from the limousine in which the President sat when he was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald on 22 November 1963. Clipping is dark blue leather from the border of the backseat cushion of the ''SS-100-X'', the customized open-air limousine that was lengthened, reinforced, and even had the seat raised so on-lookers could have a better view of the President. Following the assassination, F. Vaughn Ferguson, the Technical Service Representative at the White House responsible for the presidential automobiles, was directed by the Secret Service to clean the limousine and get it ready in case the new president, Lyndon B. Johnson, wanted to use it to attend the funeral. When Ferguson arrived at the garage, he found parts of the limo dismantled and the bloodied leather seats ripped out, the result of an FBI search for bullet fragments. He worked throughout the weekend to get the car ready, but President Johnson didn't use it, and the auto was then shipped to custom auto body firm Hess & Eisenhardt in Cincinnati, Ohio. Ferguson kept some of the ripped-out leather as a memento, and lot includes a copy of a typed letter signed from Ferguson, on White House letterhead, which reads in part, ''...The leather, light blue and dark blue, is from the automobile in which John F. Kennedy, President of the United States, was Assassinated...Four days after the Assassination the White House upholsterer and I removed this leather at the White House. The light blue leather is from the center of the rear seat. The dark blue letter is from the border of the rear seat. The spots on the leather are the dried blood of our beloved President, John F. Kennedy...'' Ferguson's limousine leather was acquired directly from him by Raleigh de Geer Amyx, owner of the famed Amyx Collection of Presidential memorabilia. The leather was then acquired from Amyx by Dr. John K. Lattimer, the ballistics expert consulted by the Kennedy family independently of the U.S. Government who confirmed the fatal shots were indeed fired by Lee Harvey Oswald. With a COA and paperwork from University Archives, documenting the chain of title. Leather piece measures just over 0.25'' x nearly 0.75''. Displayed attractively in a transparent pouch mounted to a mat with a caption and a photo of Kennedy in the limousine, all matted in dark blue velour to an overall size of 11'' x 14''. Near fine.

Source:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/gruesome-jfks-blood-from-death-limo-auctioned-for-1000/article/2552460

Can't have one of those without one of these....

[Pamela Brown]

Malcolm,

Americans would have been shocked to see the limousine in the funeral procession.

It was known on the afternoon or evening of 11-22-63 that the limousine contained JFK's brain parts and blood.

To see the limousine in the funeral procession would have been shocking to Americans.

Agreed.

Perhaps you can imagine how Vaughn Ferguson felt when he was ordered to clean up the abbatoir that had once been the great treasure of the Ford Motor Company and his personal responsibility. The rest of the world was being told that the TSBD was the primary crime scene, while he saw firsthand that it was the limo. I have spoken with FBI SA Robert Frazier, who headed the team that performed the forensic exam on the limo and felt he did not take the situation personally. But it seems to me that Ferguson did.

Here is a link to Vaughn Ferguson's obit:

http://ss100x.com/FergusonObit.gif

Edited February 4, 2015 by Pamela Brown

[Robert Mady]

Pamela, we have learned that the body of KENNEDY was altered at Bethesda by HUMES just prior to the autopsy, is there a time and place the limo could have also been altered?

[Pamela Brown]

Pamela, we have learned that the body of KENNEDY was altered at Bethesda by HUMES just prior to the autopsy, is there a time and place the limo could have also been altered?

Well, the Humes story is one thing; the limo another. It is possible that anything could have happened to the body of JFK prior to the autopsy. The discrepancy between the damage to JFK's body witnessed at Parkland Hospital and during the autopsy has been demonstrated with considerable success imo by David Lifton in BE. Unless Humes stepped forth and confessed (though his burning his original notes might amount to that) I don't know if his witting involvement in creating damage can be demonstrated.

As far as the limo is concerned, the SS had SS100X in its possession for over twelve hours after the assassination. They whisked it out of PH to Love Field, within about 1/2 hour of its arrival, and before the DPD realized they needed to impound it. The SS pored through the gore while the limo was on the C-130. They then pored through it again in the White House Garage, once the limo had been offloaded from the AF C-130 at AAFB and driven to the WHG. The SS found the two bullet fragments and a piece of skull. That is what they say. The fragments were turned over to the FBI; the piece of skull was brought to the autopsy.

How do we weigh and evaluate this evidence? Robert Frazier, the FBI SA in charge of both the limo exam and the ballistic evidence, didn't seem to have any concerns about the SS handling of the evidence. But I do. I have asked for a very long time, and been bashed on aaj and here as well for saying that I consider it very possible that the SS sanitized the limo prior to turning it over to the SS at 1 a.m. on 11.23.63. The SS took no notes, no photos, and drew no diagrams, so we have no idea what they did. They did not know what they were doing, as they were not trained to do forensic exams.

So, yes, imo, the first and best place the limo could have been altered was by the FBI team in the WHG.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Pamela Brown

[Robert Mady]

Pamela, is there a documented chain of custody for the limo?

My point being if you analyze the SSA reports you will find the four SSA assigned to the VP are consistent, three rifle shots and their actions / reactions are corroborated.

If you examine the SSA assigned to the President, the stories do not corroborate each other, nor are their actions corroborated by film or photographs, it appears that these ten agents all were at a different event. To me this is a clear indication that they were persuaded not to tell the truth so they each made up a story incorporating as little of the truth as possible and putting it in a way so as not to blatantly lie. In other words they cooperated with the conspirators. If they did so in writing, they may have turned their back on the limo and allowed alterations to occur.

The testimony of GREER and KELLERMAN is intriguing in that neither one of them was aware of damage to the windshield or molding or bullets bouncing around the front seats. The WC utterly failed to prove the damage to the windshield and molding was connected to the assassination, as a matter of fact they provided only evidence that this damage was not connected with the assassination. With SSA closely examining the limo after the assassination the WC should have been able to call any number of SSA to verify the damage, they did not. Why is it when the WC wanted to prove pigeons flying off of roofs they asked numerous witnesses if they saw pigeons, even bringing in a witness located to the rear of the TSBD a block away to describe flying pigeons, but the WC basically ignored the damage to the limo and gave it a cursory mention. All this is a sign of deception - in my opinion.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Robert Mady

[Jon G. Tidd]

Pamela and Paul,

If the body was altered on 11-22-63 and the limo was altered on that date or later, I come to one conclusion: Those who planned and carried out the assassination were in cahoots with those who performed the alterations.

Let's say Country X set up the JFK assassination. Or if one prefers, Group Y, consisting of powerful Americans, set up the assassination. I'm open-minded as to either possibility.

Which possibility, Country X or Group Y, makes most sense in view of the continuing cover-up?

[Greg Burnham]

Vincent J. Salandria was interviewed by Gaeton Fonzi in 1975. It was quoted by Fonzi in The Last Investigation (1993)

"I'm afraid we were misled. All the critics, myself included, were misled very early. I see that now. We spent too much time and effort microanalyzing the details of the assassination when all the time it was obvious, it was blatantly obvious that it was a conspiracy. Don't you think that the men who killed Kennedy had the means to do it in the most sophisticated and subtle way? They chose not to. Instead, they picked the shooting gallery that was Dealey Plaza and did it in the most barbarous and openly arrogant manner. The cover story was transparent and designed not to hold, to fall apart at the slightest scrutiny. The forces that killed Kennedy wanted the message clear: 'We are in control and no one - not the President, nor Congress, nor any elected official - no one can do anything about it.' It was a message to the people that their Government was powerless. And the people eventually got the message. Consider what has happened since the Kennedy assassination. People see government today as unresponsive to their needs, yet the budget and power of the military and intelligence establishment have increased tremendously.

"The tyranny of power is here. Current events tell us that those who killed Kennedy can only perpetuate their power by promoting social upheaval both at home and abroad. And that will lead not to revolution but to repression. I suggest to you, my friend, that the interests of those who killed Kennedy now transcend national boundaries and national priorities. No doubt we are dealing now with an international conspiracy. We must face that fact - and not waste any more time microanalyzing the evidence. That's exactly what they want us to do. They have kept us busy for so long. And I will bet, buddy, that is what will happen to you. They'll keep you very, very busy and, eventually, they'll wear you down."

Edited February 11, 2015 by Greg Burnham

[Robert Mady]

Jon, the perspective that works for me to view the murder of President KENNEDY is; the Board of Directors for the Corporation of the United States decided it was essential for their well being to remove the appointed President of the Corporation. Calling this a coup or a violent removal of the head of the corporation is semantics, the fact is all of the essential power groups were apparently in support of this action because we have not detected any faction that broke away from the specific lies that were created to cover-up their actions.

This includes the propaganda arm of the government, the disinformation media, where even now they continue to propagate the lies created 51 years ago and deny the validity of overwhelming evidence proving the assassination and cover-up were a result of a coup.

The fact that President KENNEDYS body was brought to a military installation and altered within hours following the assassination by men serving in the military sworn to uphold a constitution would indicate these actions were planned well in advance and when the deed was done all the pieces necessary to provide the cover to obscure the truth was already in place and working and that the rank and file fell in line.

The action to murder KENNEDY was not a rogue operation, it was carefully planned at every level, with necessary assets in place to assure a smooth transition of power.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Robert Mady

[Robert Mady]

Greg, concerning your post

For what it is worth I wholeheartedly agree.

The question remains what can be done to influence the direction of this cabal?

Since 'they' apparently have no problem with disposing of those that begin to be noticed while working for change, it leaves little doubt that the next potential leader for change will be dealt with in similar manners.

It would take a 100 million people moving into the streets to say 'no more', but this will never happen, to be blue, there will continue be increased repression, we know this based on time in places like Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and communist China, people will endure all depravity and will hardly make a whimper.

As the systems institutions maintain an influence on our youth they have a strangle hold on our future.

More money for public schools, entertainment designed to numb our reasoning and alter our behavior and video games to teach us to kill without mercy and Mylie Cyrus to teach our girls to become animals and twerk. We are a modern day Sparta. God help us, because we have lost all control and now maybe for the worse they are crushing the illusion that we ever had some control.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Robert Mady

[Greg Burnham]

Hi Robert,

My presentation, entitled, "The Assassination of JFK: Assimilating the Anguish" focuses on this very topic. It will be available from the JFK Historical Group's DVD, "The Warren Report 50 Years Later: A critical Examination" produced from last September's conference in Washington DC.

I will be uploading my segment (45 minutes plus Q&A) to my YouTube Channel next week. Stay tuned.

[Robert Mady]

Greg, thank you I look forward to seeing your presentation.

[Paul Trejo]

When speaking of the JFK motorcade stopping -- or at least slowing way down -- it seems to me that Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry must stand front and center.

This is because he was the DRIVER of the LEAD CAR in the JFK motorcade. If the motorcade slowed down at the time of the JFK murder, then the DRIVER of the LEAD CAR would be suspect #1 in my opinion.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Robert Mady]

Paul: AS the motorcade came to Dealey Plaza, it turned to the right then in a short distance a hairpin turn to the left, there were numerous cars and at least one bus loaded with the President's entourage, each vehicle had to navigate these corners before the motorcade could increase speed, otherwise the motorcade would have been stung out and vehicles scattered. The object of the motorcade was to parade thru Dallas, there was no urgency to get on the freeway and escape a perceived danger. This is why GREER drove at 10-12 mph until Z-300 when he slowed down even more to allow CLINT HILL to move quickly from the QM to the limo.

The lead car was 100 feet or more in front of the limo, the lead car was not the problem, the two turns at the end of the tour thru downtown was the reason the motorcade maintained the 10-12 mph speed, it was to allow the entire motorcade to navigate thru the turns and began to enter the freeway.

Brilliant, the motorcade taking this route guaranteed at least one shot at the limo while it was moving at relatively very slow speeds.

They thought of everything.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Robert Mady