Robin Unger Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Photo Credit: Jim Pomerville Altgens camera LOS Edited May 21, 2015 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 He obviously moved a few feet to his left in order to get a better view of the departing President. I agree Mark Photo Credit: Jim Pomerville Modern day photo looking from the top step area of the TSBD from this position you can't see down Elm St He could see down Elm St. just fine if he leaned out from behind the wall, as we see him doing in Altgens 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 He obviously moved a few feet to his left in order to get a better view of the departing President. I agree Mark Photo Credit: Jim Pomerville Modern day photo looking from the top step area of the TSBD from this position you can't see down Elm St He could see down Elm St. just fine if he leaned out from behind the wall, as we see him doing in Altgens 6. Yes exactly. which is also what we see him doing in Hughes, and Wiegman ( leaning to his left ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Giovanna Zambanini Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 (edited) I just had a new thought about "doorwayman" (ie: Lovelady) as i was pondering that Friday evening (11/22) visit of the FBI agents to Lovelady's house with a copy of the Altgens 6 photo to show him - that and how "doorway man" (Lovelady) and the Altgens 6 photo (or any photo showing Lovelady on the steps, without also showing a clear view of Oswald, would have worked) could have been been set up (by the conspirators) to have tied in - PURPOSEFULLY - with Prayer Man! (I'm not at all saying that that PM and doorway man are one in the same!). Ok...don't be rolling your eyes...follow along here: Recall how relieved the FBI agents were to hear Lovelady identify himself in Altgens 6. My thought is this - what if from very early on - via eyewitness reports of people who saw PM (ie Lee Harvey Oswald), on the Steps/Landing or just inside the doorway/lobby (and who even may have reported it to the DPD &/or FBI, but whose statements, i posit, could have been "cleansed" of that fact, or who could have been pressured on the spot to state otherwise) - authorities KNEW Oswald was there on the steps. The REAL Oswald (PM) - NOT "doorwayman" Lovelady). Now, if you were the CIA/Pentagon planner/conspirator in a coup d'etat - you would cover ALL your bases to make sure it came off without a hitch and it didn't end up looking like a coup - but, instead an assassination you could convince the public was done by, take your pick, a lone nut, or Castro, or a "commie pinko" etc... and you would have that designated patsy in place to take the fall for you so your evil, worthless *ss wouldn't end up in the electric chair (where it belonged)! In fact, you'd have several patsies in place at nearby locations for backup incase patsy #1 didn't work out (say in the Daltex or CRB, or maybe someone in the RR yard or behind the stockade fence while one of your real assassins was actually shooting from the South Knoll, for example). If you didn't convince the public and control the outcome your *ss would be grass! Executed for high treason and murder just like the Lincoln conspirators (let's not forget these bastards, if caught would have gotten the death penalty - just as Wade planned for Oswald).I've heard many LN supporters make just such an arguments against LHO being Prayerman, some version of: "Of course Oswald wasn't just an innocent "patsy" - how could they control where he was - what would you do if he came out on the steps. Duh?! There would go all your assassination plans." (People who make such arguments either have no critical thinking skills and/or naively underestimate the methodical plotting of intelligence agencies in pulling off such executive actions!) Of course the CIA, inventor of the Wilderness of Mirrors, would have thought of and planned for just such a contingency, by having back up patsies and stories at other locations in case patsy#1 fell through. I have no doubt the conspirators in the Dallas coup made just such backup plans. You wouldn't go in willy-nilly - you would make sure if your elected patsy at the TSBD - ended up somewhere where shouldn't have been, and thus had an easy alibi --- like 14+ coworkers and employees seeing him on the landing taking photos of the motorcade & his friends (like Frazier), while the shots were being fired! You might want a clever way to quash such disastrous "rumors"!Now, how would you do that? Well, putting a guy on the steps, that bears an uncanny resemblance to Oswald, would do just the trick. Afterward if anyone said they saw Oswald there - you could just trot out good ol' Billy Lovelady, and say "See It was just Billy! It was just a misidentification." If witnesses and witnesses persisted, that it was Oswald, they could just be written off as "obsessed," a conspiracy "nut" or sadly mistaken. So, my thought is whether Lovelady was "in on it" or knew he was being put in place for this reason or not, he would be a very convenient cover for just such a breakdown in plans. Plus, after decades of crazy people like Cinque putting forth the "doorwayman" as Oswald story, that would also make it difficult for legitimate PM researchers to have their work taken seriously - it could be painted as yet "another silly CT" - a knockoff version of the discredited "doorwayman" tale by "conspiracy buffs". Thus, the conniving beauty of just such contingency planning. But, if even THAT didn't work and witnesses on the steps and other employees STILL adamantly refused to "go along" or agree that they had simply mistaken Lovelady for Oswald (PM), and the American public believed them rather than the CIA's Mockingbird story? Then they could always go to plan "B". They could say they arrested Mr. Oswald "in error" - he was actually innocently standing out on the landing photographing the motorcade and having lunch with his friends!In fact, he/they could show the (Mockingbird) news agencies all the photos he took of the motorcade, AND of his friends and coworkers while standing on the steps! Frazier would be allowed - even encouraged and trotted out - to back up Mr. Oswald's alibi by recounting how his good buddy Lee, on the landing next to him, even took his smiling picture there on the landing that day! (Queue the camera on Lee and Buell holding Buell's smiling, souvenir photo from that tragic day! The AP, UPI and all 3 networks roll with the "poignant human interest story" of the man who was almost sentenced for assassinating the President, all the while the only thing he was shooting - was pictures! ) You see how this works? They could have also put out stories of how, Mr. Oswald, a lover of photography, who had even had a previous job as a photographer (Jaggers), was arrested in error as the assassin, all the while he was doing what he loved - taking pictures of the motorcade! [btw: ironically, his death certificate lists his occupation as "photographer"!] This media spin could be going on in the wake of "breaking news" that they they had just arrested THE ACTUAL lone-nut-commie-pinko assassin in bldg or location "B" nearby - thus laying patsy-dom at the feet of some other clueless, innocent schmuck. At anyrate, Lovelady could have served a very key purpose - to look like Oswald - the designated TSBD patsy if he DID come out on the steps. Which - of course, he did. Edited September 26, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger DeLaria Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 The area behind "doorwayman" containing the partially blacked out suit and tie guy(that looks like it was monkeyed with) whose shirt is simultaneously in front of and behind doorwayman, cutting off his shoulder, and also appearing further down, obscured by the too large floating baby; could oswald have been photographed in that area behind doorwayman, necessitating his being obscured by suit and tie guy? Forgive me if this has been already discussed and I'm off base here, I haven't really looked into Altgens 6 all that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon G. Tidd Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Roger @ post #50: Your comment goes to the allegation Altgens 6 was altered, which I believe. In particular, I believe it was if the FBI showed Altgens 6 to Billy Lovelady on the evening of November 22nd. Why should the FBI have been focusing on Altgens 6 and Lovelady on the evening of November 22? The FBI appears able to go into cover-up mode immediately. No surprise, but even an FBI agent had to be prepped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) Roger @ post #50: Your comment goes to the allegation Altgens 6 was altered, which I believe. In particular, I believe it was if the FBI showed Altgens 6 to Billy Lovelady on the evening of November 22nd. Why should the FBI have been focusing on Altgens 6 and Lovelady on the evening of November 22? The FBI appears able to go into cover-up mode immediately. No surprise, but even an FBI agent had to be prepped. Jon and Roger, Did you read my post on another thread in which I explained to Jon that Altgens 6 was shot at about a 50 degree angle to the front plane of the TSBD, whereas Couch / Darnell were filmed at about a 110 degree angle to that plane? Which explains why Prayer Man is visible in Couch / Darnell but not in Altgens 6? --Tommy Edited September 27, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) Photo Credit: Jim Pomerville Altgens camera LOS bumped for Jon and Roger Lovelady was standing next to the center handrail and had this L.O.S. of where Altgens was standing down on Elm Street. Edited September 27, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 The area behind "doorwayman" containing the partially blacked out suit and tie guy(that looks like it was monkeyed with) whose shirt is simultaneously in front of and behind doorwayman, cutting off his shoulder, and also appearing further down, obscured by the too large floating baby; could oswald have been photographed in that area behind doorwayman, necessitating his being obscured by suit and tie guy? Forgive me if this has been already discussed and I'm off base here, I haven't really looked into Altgens 6 all that much. Roger, as previously shown, Lovelady was leaning out to see around the corner. The shirt of the guy behind isn't hiding Lovelady's shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger DeLaria Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Something just doesn't look right about the shoulder line to me. The upper part of the white shirt is cutting off the bottom left of Lovelady's jaw. It looks clearly pasted over, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Lloyd Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Did the HSCA (or, perhaps, the WC?) determine that the man in front of Lovelady was waving and it's his arm we are seeing in front of Lovelady? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Something just doesn't look right about the shoulder line to me. The upper part of the white shirt is cutting off the bottom left of Lovelady's jaw. It looks clearly pasted over, in my opinion. Roger, this is similar to the lean that Lovelady is making. IMO Edited September 28, 2015 by Ray Mitcham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) Something just doesn't look right about the shoulder line to me. The upper part of the white shirt is cutting off the bottom left of Lovelady's jaw. It looks clearly pasted over, in my opinion. Roger, this is similar to the lean that Lovelady is making. IMO Ray, You realize that Lovelady was standing next to the center handrail, don't you? Here are two Wiegman frames, taken about 5 seconds apart. The one with the car was taken first. The one without the car was taken at the same time that Altgens 6 was taken. Credit: Chris Davidson It looks like Lovelady may have come down one step between the two frames, and is leaning forward in the second one. --Tommy Edited September 29, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Something just doesn't look right about the shoulder line to me. The upper part of the white shirt is cutting off the bottom left of Lovelady's jaw. It looks clearly pasted over, in my opinion. Roger, this is similar to the lean that Lovelady is making. IMO Ray, You realize that Lovelady was standing next to the center handrail, don't you? Here are two Wiegman frames, taken about 5 seconds apart. The one with the car was taken first. The one without the car was taken at the same time that Altgens 6 was taken. Credit: Chris Davidson It looks like Lovelady may have come down one step between the two frames, and is leaning forward in the second one. --Tommy Yep, Just that I didn't have a center rail available when i took the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Something just doesn't look right about the shoulder line to me. The upper part of the white shirt is cutting off the bottom left of Lovelady's jaw. It looks clearly pasted over, in my opinion. Roger, this is similar to the lean that Lovelady is making. IMO Ray, You realize that Lovelady was standing next to the center handrail, don't you? Here are two Wiegman frames, taken about 5 seconds apart. The one with the car was taken first. The one without the car was taken at the same time that Altgens 6 was taken. Credit: Chris Davidson It looks like Lovelady may have come down one step between the two frames, and is leaning forward in the second one. --Tommy Yep, Just that I didn't have a center rail available when i took the photo. Ray, What most newbies (not you) don't realize is that Altgens was standing down Elm Street at about a 60 degree angle from Wiegman's line of sight to Lovelady. That's why Lovelady appears to be hugging the left wall (and why Prayer Man isn't visible) in Altgens 6. But Lovelady wasn't hugging the left wall -- he was standing near the center handrail. --Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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