Ruth Paine

[Chris Newton]

It's quite remarkable that every time I take the time to examine and scrutinize an assumption in this thread that I find results that are at odds with the purported conclusions. It leads me to believe that most of the accusations were hurriedly contrived and without merit. I wish I had the time and the inclination to go through them all. Fortunately, I do not have that inclination or desire. I do note that while researching, I have found some genuine nuggets of information that I had not noticed before.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Chris Newton

[Paul Trejo]

It's quite remarkable that every time I take the time to examine and scrutinize an assumption in this thread that I find results that are at odds with the purported conclusions. It leads me to believe that most of the accusations were hurriedly contrived and without merit. I wish I had the time and the inclination to go through them all. Fortunately, I do not have that inclination or desire. I do note that while researching, I have found some genuine nuggets of information that I had not noticed before.

Chris, in that MEMO of July 22nd, 1964, a statement is made as follows:

"Walters...alleged that a set of metal file cabinets were found at Irving containing records that appeared to be names and activities of Cuban sympathizers. He said that this evidence was turned over to Captain Fritz and Secret Service officers." (emphasis added)

I note that this is nothing but a repetition of Walther's claim -- and it adds nothing at all to Walther's claim. Specifically:

(1) No other witness has ever seen or reported this "set of metal filing cabinets".

(2) No other witness ever photographed all or any of this "set of metal filing cabinets."

(3) Captain Fritz himself, who is named here, had no record, no memo and no memory of receiving a "set of metal filing cabinets" from Buddy Walthers.

(4) The Secret Service has no memo or documentation of receipt of a "set of metal filing cabinets" from Buddy Walthers.

(5) No inventory or listing of a "set of metal filing cabinets" ever appears in any Inventory Listing of the Warren Commission.

The mere fact that we have not one solitary witness other than Buddy Walthers gives us little choice but to conclude that Buddy Walthers was exaggerating what he found at Ruth Paine's home.

Ruth Paine herself lists the contents of the six boxes which the DPD removed from her house on their first visit on 11/22/1963, namely: two boxes of Folk Dance records; two boxes of college papers; one box of FPCC fliers from Oswald's stack; and one box containing a 35mm projector.

Insofar as Buddy Walthers has evidently grossly exaggerated what he found at Ruth Paine's house, we justly ask why, and wonder if Buddy Walthers had an agenda that might have involved the DPD and General Walker.

This memo you posted, Chris (which has no letterhead) merely repeats hear-say. Anybody can do that.

If anybody has more solid information than what Chris has provided, I urge you to post it here.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 3, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Chris Newton]

This memo you posted, Chris (which has no letterhead) merely repeats hear-say. Anybody can do that.

Again, my hear-say is documented hear-say where yours is typically made up of whole cloth, In Your not-so-Humble Opinion, as it were.

Are you suggesting this is not what Buddy Walthers reported in his Supplementary Investigation Report to Fritz on Nov. 22?

Have you read that report?

[Paul Trejo]

This memo you posted, Chris (which has no letterhead) merely repeats hear-say. Anybody can do that.

Again, my hear-say is documented hear-say where yours is typically made up of whole cloth, In Your not-so-Humble Opinion, as it were.

Are you suggesting this is not what Buddy Walthers reported in his Supplementary Investigation Report to Fritz on Nov. 22?

Have you read that report?

Well, Chris, it's very clear that Buddy Walthers told a lot of people what he thought he saw at Ruth Paine's house -- but the main problem is that nobody else ever saw it.

Nobody.

Doesn't that bother you one little bit?

Buddy can say anything he wants -- and he can write anything he wants -- and other people can repeat what Buddy said -- but just ask one other person if they ever actually saw a "set of metal filling cabinets" with names of Cuban sympathizers in them -- and what do you find?

NOTHING!

Not even one single photograph of this "set of metal filing cabinets!" Something; anything; to suggest that Buddy Walthers didn't just exaggerate his findings at Ruth Paines house.

What the Warren Commission did list in its official report was a box of FPCC fliers that Lee Harvey Oswald still had -- some evidently stamped with Guy Banister's address in New Orleans -- 544 Camp Street. Maybe this is what Buddy Walthers was referring to? If not, then where in the world is this "set of metal filing cabinets?"

Common sense tells us that Buddy was exaggerating. Also, common sense suggests that Buddy knew something of Guy Banister's operation in New Orleans -- because Guy Banister himself did personally possess in his offices in New Orleans a "set of metal filing cabinets" containing, among other things, names of Cuban sympathizers.

What was Buddy Walthers HOLDING BACK? That's what I want to know.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 4, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Chris Newton]

Buddy Walthers wrote his report and turned it over to Capt. Fritz on 11/22/1963.

It consists of four typed pages detailing everything Buddy, a detective, witnessed.

Generally, when a detective, or any sworn law enforcement officer writes a report based on first hand knowledge as a primary witness this is not considered hear-say. If you have some information that would impeach his recollection of events at such an early date then you should share that.

Common sense tells us that Buddy was exaggerating. Also, common sense suggests that Buddy knew something of Guy Banister's operation in New Orleans -- because Guy Banister himself did personally possess in his offices in New York a "set of metal filing cabinets" containing, among other things, names of Cuban sympathizers.

Common sense tells me that what you wrote above is more of the "same-old-same old", that's rife in this thread.

[Paul Trejo]

Buddy Walthers wrote his report and turned it over to Capt. Fritz on 11/22/1963.

It consists of four typed pages detailing everything Buddy, a detective, witnessed.

Generally, when a detective, or any sworn law enforcement officer writes a report based on first hand knowledge as a primary witness this is not considered hear-say. If you have some information that would impeach his recollection of events at such an early date then you should share that.

You request an argument from the Nothingness that Captain Fritz delivered.

Where is Captain Fritz's receipt for this alleged "set of metal filing cabinets"?

The memo that you provided, Chris, reports that Buddy Walthers "said that this evidence was turned over to Captain Fritz and Secret Service officers."

Well, where is the receipt for the evidence from the desk of Captain Fritz? Is it possible that after a half-century that nobody ever found it?

The same applies to the Secret Service. Where is the Secret Service's receipt for this alleged "set of metal filing cabinets"? Is it possible that after a half-century that nobody ever found it?

Is it possible that after a half-century that not one other person ever admitted to seeing it with their own eyeballs?

Or isn't it more likely that after a half-century that we must finally admit that Buddy Walthers was NOT TELLING THE TRUTH.

If I wanted to guess -- to spin a theory on this -- I would guess that Buddy Walthers was part of the JFK murder plot, along with several other members of the DPD and Sheriff's office (including Chief Curry and Captain Fritz), all working for General Walker, using secret clubs like the Minutemen to coordinate activities.

This makes best sense of the data -- that is, that Buddy Walthers would in that case seek to detract attention away from the Dallas Police and towards Ruth Paine.

Here, however, Buddy got too excited and spoke out of school -- so therefore his exaggerations became mere vapor on paper.

SHOW ME THE FILING CABINETS!

SHOW ME AT LEAST ONE RECEIPT FOR THE FILING CABINETS!

SHOW ME AT LEAST ONE SINGLE OTHER EYE-WITNESS TO THESE ALLEGED FILING CABINETS!

Otherwise, common sense must conclude -- at the bare minimum -- that Buddy Walthers exaggerated what he found, and made up this story -- and officers who respected him repeated his story, expecting the evidence to appear sooner or later. It never did.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 4, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Richard Gilbride]

1) The informant "Lee" apprised the Secret Service that four snipers planned to shoot Kennedy with high-powered rifles. They were right-wing paramilitary fanatics. The attempt would probably be at one of the Northwest Expressway overpasses, along the motorcade route.

That's quite consistent with info that might be garnered by DRE infiltrator Lee Harvey Oswald. Directario Revolucionario Estudiantil, the CIA-funded Cuban student revolutionary group. If I remember correctly, one of the snipers was named Homer Ecchevaria.

I'll grant that it's remotely possible that "Lee" worked at the Chinese restaurant near the North Side flophouse where 4 high-powered rifles were noticed.

But I doubt we'll hear the real story until LHO is exonerated. I do agree that he was playing both sides on November 22nd- in contact with an abort team, infiltrating a kill team.

1.3) LHO was surely the shooter? That looks entirely sketchy to me. 2 men, 2 cars, LHO no drive. Imagine if this went to trial in July '63. Would you, as prosecuting attorney, be confident of a conviction? Guilt must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

5.4) I hadn't seen that 1975 Walker letter to Frank Church, thanks- but Oswald in custody by 12 pm the night of April 10th? Which lieutenant do you think might have informed Walker about this, a few days afterwards? Jack Revill? Rio Sam Pierce? Or...? And how did the DPD manage to find Oswald that night? And who could possibly have been his accomplice? Was the accomplice also placed in custody?

This is a spurious lead and Walker offers no definitive information. I'd class it close to hearsay. I suspect that Walker has an ulterior motive here, and uses this "hearsay" to amplify his own status. (i.e. first they tried to get Walker, but they missed, so they went after JFK).

6.0) Life obtained the backyard photo from "an enterprising young man in the Dallas Police Department." (Rosen to Belmont, FBI internal memo, 3/25/64). i.e. Roscoe White, who joined the DPD on November 5th, worked in the ID Bureau, was an expert at trick photography, had an oddball copy of the backyard photo found among his effects after his untimely death.

Sorry, can't buy that Walker had any kind of leverage with Life, which was a Mockingbird branch of the CIA (e.g. Zapruder film). And if you say of course not, then why would Walker be complaining to Church about the CIA attempting to shoot at him, if one of his functionaries (Roscoe) had provided Life (i.e. the CIA) with the cover photo for its 2/21/64 issue?

Agree that Mike Robinson's story reeks of truth, but the evidence on the grassy knoll points to a French hitman. Sources here are INS inspectors Virgil Bailey and Hal Norwood.

7) Kierkegaard was the acknowledged founder of the philosophical school of thought known as existentialism. "The human being is spirit. But what is the spirit? The spirit is the self. But what is the self?The self is a relation which relates itself to itself, or that in the relation which is its relating to itself. The self is not the relation but the relation's relating to itself. A human being is a synthesis of the infinite and finite, of the temporal and the eternal, of freedom and necessity. In short a synthesis. A synthesis is a relation between two terms. Looked at in this way a human being is not yet a self."

- As Despair is the Sickness Unto Death

He hated Hegel, and most of his short life wrote dualistic polemics (posing as thesis & antithesis) exposing the weaknesses of the much-vaunted System of Hegelism.

This philosophical trend grew into that dialectical materialistic monster, Marxism. Hegelism's highest synthesis was the State, and greatest creation was Hegel's System.

Cute. In the hands of Lenin & Stalin it produced 30-plus million executions in the Lubyanka prisons. And the good ol' New World Order uses the same ol' Hegelian tactics of create a problem, start a reaction, propose a solution (thesis + antithesis = synthesis) to massage events to their liking. But this scheme gets bamboozled continually by God-inspired individuals who completely undermine their most conniving Machievelian plans- Michael Faraday, Crazy Horse, Nikola Tesla, Vladimir Putin, and the hits just keep on comin'.

[Paul Trejo]

<snip>

.

1.3) LHO was surely the shooter? That looks entirely sketchy to me. 2 men, 2 cars, LHO no drive. Imagine if this went to trial in July '63. Would you, as prosecuting attorney, be confident of a conviction? Guilt must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

5.4) I hadn't seen that 1975 Walker letter to Frank Church, thanks- but Oswald in custody by 12 pm the night of April 10th? Which lieutenant do you think might have informed Walker about this, a few days afterwards? Jack Revill? Rio Sam Pierce? Or...? And how did the DPD manage to find Oswald that night? And who could possibly have been his accomplice? Was the accomplice also placed in custody?

This is a spurious lead and Walker offers no definitive information. I'd class it close to hearsay. I suspect that Walker has an ulterior motive here, and uses this "hearsay" to amplify his own status. (i.e. first they tried to get Walker, but they missed, so they went after JFK).

6.0) Life obtained the backyard photo from "an enterprising young man in the Dallas Police Department." (Rosen to Belmont, FBI internal memo, 3/25/64). i.e. Roscoe White, who joined the DPD on November 5th, worked in the ID Bureau, was an expert at trick photography, had an oddball copy of the backyard photo found among his effects after his untimely death.

Sorry, can't buy that Walker had any kind of leverage with Life, which was a Mockingbird branch of the CIA (e.g. Zapruder film). And if you say of course not, then why would Walker be complaining to Church about the CIA attempting to shoot at him, if one of his functionaries (Roscoe) had provided Life (i.e. the CIA) with the cover photo for its 2/21/64 issue?

Agree that Mike Robinson's story reeks of truth, but the evidence on the grassy knoll points to a French hitman. Sources here are INS inspectors Virgil Bailey and Hal Norwood.

<snip>

Richard, I do appreciate the continuing dialogue about LHO and General Walker, because Ruth Paine is implied in it.

(1.3) IMHO LHO was surely the shooter precisely because:

(i) LHO didn't act alone;

(ii) LHO confessed to Marina his own role, but he protected the roles of the others;

(iii) the "Walker Note" cinches it for me, and I don't see how anybody could possibly doubt it;

(iv) LHO didn't drive, but LHO could ride as a passenger, so I see no issue;

(v) if the Walker issue went to trial, given Marina's testimony and the "Walker Note" alone, I believe LHO would be found guilty;

(vi) it all depends on whether or not one believes Marina.

(vii) To doubt the "Walker Note," of course, is to accuse Ruth Paine of forging it. That's just ridiculous, IMHO.

(5.4) Walker's personal papers show that he published several variations on that 1975 letter to various people over the decades.

(i) The first variation was his phone call to the German newspaper less than 18 hours after the JFK murder.

(ii) In each of his many variations, the person who "informed" him changes (but is never named)..

(iii) Yet one phrase recurs ominously -- "if Oswald hadn't tried to kill Walker, then JFK would still be alive today."

(vi) IMHO Walker tried to confess every year of his life from 1963 to 1993.

(v) It's only a half-spurious lead. It's also a half-confession.

(vi) Walker has been ignored for 50 years. But he's the key to the JFK assassination, IMHO.

(vii) Here's the German newspaper article: http://www.pet880.com/images/19631129_Deutsche_NZ.jpg

(viii) Here's his last article before he died: http://www.pet880.com/images/19920119_EAW_Oswald_arrested.pdf

(6.0) Um, LIFE magazine obtained LHO's Backyard Photograph from George De Mohrenschildt.

(i) What is your theory -- based on the data you're sharing about it?

(ii) Yes Roscoe was a new DPD cop, but he was also LHO's fellow Marine at Atsugi.

(iii) Jack White, photography expert, shows that the chin, neck, shoulders, right wrist and back-leaning stance in ALL the Backyard Photographs always belong to the body of Roscoe White. I'm convinced of this.

(iv) IMHO, LHO created all of the BYP Fakes with the assistance of Roscoe White when LHO worked at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall.

(v) I'd like to verify from J-C-S personnel if anybody there ever saw a BYP. (No way they would ever admit to it during the 1960's).

As for the GN shooter, JD Tippit's pock-mark on his left cheek can now be determined by advanced photography of shadows behind the picket fence, IMHO.

I'm unclear about the rest of your theory -- but I'm interested to sort it out.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 4, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Richard Gilbride]

Paul,

It is interesting to see the Nov. 29 National Zeitung article, I hadn't seen that before, but this has very suspicious origins and was covered in Harvey & Lee on p. 510. It's 6 paragraphs worth of information, but basically shows that West German reporter Hasso Thorsten was likely prompted to contact General Walker on Nov. 24 to get him to say that LHO was the one who took a shot at him. And Chief Curry was prompted about it at a Nov. 23 news conference. But Liebeler clarified while taking Walker's testimony that this information was not known to anyone until a few days after Nov. 29, and Walker expressed surprise at seeing the Zeitung article, and said he didn't tell Thorsten that LHO was the one.

Your thoughts are well-organized and it seems you are on a path towards a book to supplant the new Walker book just out, but you might want to double-check a couple things, which I have issues with.

The info on Life getting the backyard photo from "an enterprising young man in the DPD" is directly referenced by John Armstrong as FBI 124-10043-10058 HQ 62-10960-2766. I'm a klutz at finding stuff like that on-line, and spent an hour just proving that again. But while I agree entirely that Jack White nails Roscoe as posing for the backyard photos, I cannot agree about DeMohrenschildt giving the photo to Life.

I've studied the Tippit murder quite closely, and can't understand why it's become fashionable to place him on the grassy knoll. Call me a traditionalist, but not only did he take an early lunch at home with his wife Marie, at 12:17 he radioed in: "Be out of the car a minute, 4100 block of Bonnie View." The manager of Hodges Super Market at 4121 Bonnie View had caught a woman shoplifter and called the police. Tippit was somehow informed of this, but it is not known just how. He radioed: "78 clear" 3 minutes later. Researcher Larry Ray Harris interviewed the grocery store manager in 1978, and was told that Tippit had put the woman in his squad car.

Grassy knoll studies are specious at best, but it is noteworthy to recall that when I was a member of JFKLancer 5-6 years ago I think it was Jerry Dealey who mentioned hearing, at a DPD get-together about the assassination, that one of the first cops responding remembered seeing Roscoe White up by the stockade fence just after the shots. I can't recall accurately whether that was Haygood, Hargis or Harkness.

My own take boils around CIA #632-796, "Jean SOUETRE'S expulsion from U.S.", that being an alias for Michel Victor Mertz. INS Inspector Virgil Bailey recalled in 1980 picking up someone who matched Mertz's physical description and bringing him to the INS offices at 1402 Rio Grande Building; his supervisor Hal Norwood recalled receiving a request from the DPD to come pick up a foreigner they had in custody, whence the Washington INS twice phoned the Dallas INS requesting a pickup on this man.

So this division of the Justice Department, run for the time being by Nicholas Katzenbach, wanted this guy deported immediately. And the FBI would learn later that "Souetre" had been "flown out of Dallas."

Mertz's personal history fits the profile of someone capable (and experienced in triangulated crossfire ambushes of Nazi officers) of firing a headshot from the knoll.

I have many personal obligations to take care of and may be a couple or three days in responding further.

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

It is interesting to see the Nov. 29 National Zeitung article, I hadn't seen that before, but this has very suspicious origins and was covered in Harvey & Lee on p. 510. It's 6 paragraphs worth of information, but basically shows that West German reporter Hasso Thorsten was likely prompted to contact General Walker on Nov. 24 to get him to say that LHO was the one who took a shot at him. And Chief Curry was prompted about it at a Nov. 23 news conference. But Liebeler clarified while taking Walker's testimony that this information was not known to anyone until a few days after Nov. 29, and Walker expressed surprise at seeing the Zeitung article, and said he didn't tell Thorsten that LHO was the one.

Your thoughts are well-organized and it seems you are on a path towards a book to supplant the new Walker book just out, but you might want to double-check a couple things, which I have issues with.

The info on Life getting the backyard photo from "an enterprising young man in the DPD" is directly referenced by John Armstrong as FBI 124-10043-10058 HQ 62-10960-2766. I'm a klutz at finding stuff like that on-line, and spent an hour just proving that again. But while I agree entirely that Jack White nails Roscoe as posing for the backyard photos, I cannot agree about DeMohrenschildt giving the photo to Life.

I've studied the Tippit murder quite closely, and can't understand why it's become fashionable to place him on the grassy knoll. Call me a traditionalist, but not only did he take an early lunch at home with his wife Marie, at 12:17 he radioed in: "Be out of the car a minute, 4100 block of Bonnie View." The manager of Hodges Super Market at 4121 Bonnie View had caught a woman shoplifter and called the police. Tippit was somehow informed of this, but it is not known just how. He radioed: "78 clear" 3 minutes later. Researcher Larry Ray Harris interviewed the grocery store manager in 1978, and was told that Tippit had put the woman in his squad car.

Grassy knoll studies are specious at best, but it is noteworthy to recall that when I was a member of JFKLancer 5-6 years ago I think it was Jerry Dealey who mentioned hearing, at a DPD get-together about the assassination, that one of the first cops responding remembered seeing Roscoe White up by the stockade fence just after the shots. I can't recall accurately whether that was Haygood, Hargis or Harkness.

My own take boils around CIA #632-796, "Jean SOUETRE'S expulsion from U.S.", that being an alias for Michel Victor Mertz. INS Inspector Virgil Bailey recalled in 1980 picking up someone who matched Mertz's physical description and bringing him to the INS offices at 1402 Rio Grande Building; his supervisor Hal Norwood recalled receiving a request from the DPD to come pick up a foreigner they had in custody, whence the Washington INS twice phoned the Dallas INS requesting a pickup on this man.

So this division of the Justice Department, run for the time being by Nicholas Katzenbach, wanted this guy deported immediately. And the FBI would learn later that "Souetre" had been "flown out of Dallas."

Mertz's personal history fits the profile of someone capable (and experienced in triangulated crossfire ambushes of Nazi officers) of firing a headshot from the knoll.

I have many personal obligations to take care of and may be a couple or three days in responding further.

Richard, I continue to appreciate your thoughtful objections and observations. Once again by the numbers:

(1) You cited "HARVEY & LEE" about the Deutsche Nationalzeitung interview, but it is mistaken in many respects. I'm going by memory here, but I believe my statements below can all be verified by the German BND (like our FBI) and also film clips found on the Mary Ferrell web site. (I may revise and extend these remarks in the next day or so.)

(1.1) First, there is no such person as Hasso Thorsten, which is merely an alias for Helmet Muench. The German BND verified that when they sought the writer of the article at high priority.

(1.2) Helmet Muench, a news reporter, told the BND that he was sought by the newspaper's editor, Gerhard Frey, a longtime friend of Walker's, to contact Walker by Nov. 3rd, at 6am CST (less than 18 hours after the JFK murder).

(1.3) Helmet Muench told the BND that General Walker promptly told him that LHO was his shooter back in April 1963. This was the opening bit of news.

(1.4) Helmet Muench then conducted a further interview with Walker, using questions supplied by Gerhard Frey.

(1.5) Helmet Muench gave these materials to Gerhard Frey during the afternoon of Nov. 23rd.

(1.6) Also that afternoon, somebody (we don't know who, but possibly Walker himself) called the HOUSTON POST newspaper, and also suggested that LHO was Walker's shooter back in April.

(1.7) On the night of Nov. 23rd, a reporter from the HOUSTON POST asked DPD Chief Jesse Curry if LHO tried to shoot Walker. Curry said he didn't know.

(1.8) On Nov. 24th, when LHO was himself murdered, Gerhard Frey instructed Helmet Muench to again call General Walker for another statement.

(1.9) The second interview was given to editor Gerhard Frey, who rewrote the interviews into the final form that we read in the Deutsche Nationalzeitung published on the weekend edition of that newspaper on 11/29/1963 (where the full text can be found on the Mary Ferrell web site).

(1.10) Liebeler asked Walker about the article in 1964, and Walker told Liebeler that the "Germans are very advanced, and probably guessed it." Liebeler simply accepted this -- and so has virtually all JFK literature for the past 50 years.

(1.11) Regarding the new Walker book that came out last September by Dr. Jeffrey Caufield, namely, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015), I like that book very much and I don't want to supplant it. Actually, we've shared a bit of data, Dr. Caufield and I, over the past three years.

(2.0) As for John Armstrong, I find he makes too many errors and far too many guesses for my demands.

(2.1) The legal contract between LIFE and George DeMohrenschildt about the BYP is historical fact.

(3.0) I'm glad you agree with Jack White about Roscoe White. IMHO this is one of the most important clues in the JFK murder.

(4.0) The story about Tippit being on the GN is not taken from any story, but from Photographic Evidence. I invite you to ask your local library for this book: A Deeper, Darker Truth: Tom Wilson's Journey into the Assassination of John F. Kennedy (2009) by D.T. Phillips.

(4.1) The photographic evidence is stunning. It changes everything.

(5.0) It wasn't only those DPD cops you mentioned who saw Roscoe White on the GN, but Beverly Oliver, who knew Geneva White personally, also saw Roscoe White and P.T. Dean on the GN immediately after the JFK murder.

(5.1) Not only that, but Geneva White had taken a photo of Roscoe and Dean at that critical moment. Sadly, Roscoe saw her, and hours later, the DPD confiscated her camera before she had a chance to develop the film. That's her story -- and I believe her.

(6.0) Insofar as Jean SOUTRE was involved at all, it would have been as a backup Patsy, just in case LHO had skipped town at the last minute.

(6.1) SOUTRE might have been useful as an advisor in such matters, or even as one of the many shooters on one of the many teams. But he wasn't central, IMHO.

(6.2) The JFK murder was a DALLAS plot, and there were plenty -- more than enough -- volunteers for the deed who worked for FREE. Why pay somebody when free volunteers were everywhere?

(7.0) To say that General Walker was the mastermind of the JFK murder is the same as saying that the DPD and Sheriff Deputies who were also members of the Dallas Minutemen (led by Walker) were the actual Ground Crew of the JFK murder.

(7.1) After 50 years of wheel-spinning, it is finally time to turn our attention to DALLAS to solve the crime that occurred in DALLAS. That's my position.

(8.0) Let me bring all this back around to Ruth Paine.

(8.1) Current thinking (e.g. James DiEugenio, Destiny Betrayed, second edition, 2012) says that Walker isn't a suspect, and that the "Walker Note" was forged by Ruth Paine.

(8.2) Current thinking also says that the photograph of the Walker house was forged by Ruth Paine.

(8.3) Current thinking also says that the BYP Fakes were forged by Ruth Paine.

(8.4) Current thinking also says that the WC testimony by Marina Oswald about LHO shooting at Walker was orchestrated by Ruth Paine.

(8.5) Current thinking also says that the WC testimony by George and Jeanne De Mohrenschildt about their suspicions that LHO was Walker's shooter, was also orchestrated by Ruth Paine.

(8.6) Therefore, to show that LHO really did try to kill General Walker changes a great deal of CT literature about Ruth Paine.

(9.0) It's very kind of you, Richard, to explain why you'll be absent from this thread for a few days. I appreciate that, just as I appreciate your intelligent contribution to this thread.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 5, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

This memo you posted, Chris (which has no letterhead) merely repeats hear-say. Anybody can do that.

Again, my hear-say is documented hear-say where yours is typically made up of whole cloth, In Your not-so-Humble Opinion, as it were.

Are you suggesting this is not what Buddy Walthers reported in his Supplementary Investigation Report to Fritz on Nov. 22?

Have you read that report?

Well, Chris, it's very clear that Buddy Walthers told a lot of people what he thought he saw at Ruth Paine's house -- but the main problem is that nobody else ever saw it.

Nobody.

Doesn't that bother you one little bit?

Buddy can say anything he wants -- and he can write anything he wants -- and other people can repeat what Buddy said -- but just ask one other person if they ever actually saw a "set of metal filling cabinets" with names of Cuban sympathizers in them -- and what do you find?

NOTHING!

Not even one single photograph of this "set of metal filing cabinets!" Something; anything; to suggest that Buddy Walthers didn't just exaggerate his findings at Ruth Paines house.

What the Warren Commission did list in its official report was a box of FPCC fliers that Lee Harvey Oswald still had -- some evidently stamped with Guy Banister's address in New Orleans -- 544 Camp Street. Maybe this is what Buddy Walthers was referring to? If not, then where in the world is this "set of metal filing cabinets?"

Common sense tells us that Buddy was exaggerating. Also, common sense suggests that Buddy knew something of Guy Banister's operation in New Orleans -- because Guy Banister himself did personally possess in his offices in New Orleans a "set of metal filing cabinets" containing, among other things, names of Cuban sympathizers.

What was Buddy Walthers HOLDING BACK? That's what I want to know.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Well, Paul, why would Walthers "exaggerate" about that?

Wouldn't it have made more sense for him not to mention the file cabinets at all, and to make sure that they just "went missing"?

Is your using the word "exaggerating" here a a word-twisting synonym for "lying"?

Isn't that what you really want to say? "Lying"?

Or do you "now" think that whoever wrote the report was uhh... "exaggerating" in order to make Walthers look "bad" ?

Or do you "now" think that it was just a stupid, misguided attempt by the person who wrote the report to make Oswald look "worse" than he really "was"?

--Tommy

Edited November 5, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Well, Paul, why would Walthers "exaggerate" about that?

Wouldn't it have made more sense for him not to mention the file cabinets at all, and to make sure that they just "went missing"?

Is your using the word "exaggerating" here a a word-twisting synonym for "lying"?

Isn't that what you really want to say? "Lying"?

Or do you "now" think that whoever wrote the report was uhh... "exaggerating" in order to make Walthers look "bad" ?

Or do you "now" think that it was just a stupid, misguided attempt by the person who wrote the report to make Oswald look "worse" than he really "was"?

--Tommy

Well, Tommy, I don't know enough about Buddy Walthers to start accusing him. I'm willing to guess, but I don't know for sure, yet.

I feel confident that there never were "six or seven metal filing cabinets" in Ruth Paine's garage that contained names of Cuban Sympathizers.

My confidence comes from the fact that nobody else saw them. Nobody photographed them. Nobody logged them. There is no official paperwork on them. They never existed except in the imagination of one man.

There are semi-official repetitions of what Buddy Walther's said -- but no official paperwork on them.

OK. Why do I say exaggerate? Because Ruth Paine said that the DPD took from her garage on 11/22/1963: "two boxes of Folk Dance records, two boxes of her college papers; one box of Oswald's FPCC fliers; and one box containing a 35mm projector."

That's six boxes. That's raw material to work from. The six boxes were not imaginary. So, it seems to me that Buddy Walthers and his imagination simply glanced at this "Communist" material -- because every gun-totin' WASP cop knows that a Yankee Quaker is a "Communist," by definition.

So Buddy glances at Oswald's FPCC fliers. OK, that's Cuba material. PROOF that they're all a bunch of Communists!

Then Buddy looks at Ruth Paine's college papers. Sociology. Russian literature. Words he could never understand. PROOF that they're all a bunch of Communists!

Then Buddy looks at Ruth's Folk Dance records. Right there! A Russian Folk Dance! PROOF that they're all a bunch of Communists!

To make himself out to be somebody important at the DPD headquarters, Buddy Walthers boasts about what he found at Ruth Paine's garage -- "Well, you know, I found six or seven boxes full of Communist and Cuba material!"

"Wow, Buddy! You're the man! You probably busted a Communist cell wide open right here in Dallas! Gather 'round fellas, listen to this!"

"Well, you know, I need to look at it again, but I'm pretty sure it was six or seven metal filing cabinets full of Communist papers, with names of Cuba sympathizers, and so forth."

"Wow, Buddy! You cracked the case! Hey, everybody! Listen to what Buddy found!"

In the meantime, the Secret Service is logging two boxes of Folk Dance records, two boxes of college papers, one box of Oswald's FPCC fliers, and one box with a 35mm projector.

I don't need to accuse Buddy Walthers of lying. Exaggeration is enough for a WASP cop in 1963.

Of course, the JFK Killers did try to frame a Communist FPCC Director for the JFK murder. Reports went out of Dallas to all quarters, including to the FBI, with certainties that LHO was a Communist FPCC Director from New Orleans who had recently been to Mexico City, trying to go to Havana.

Was Buddy Walthers involved with these people? I don't know yet.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 5, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Well, Paul, why would Walthers "exaggerate" about that?

Wouldn't it have made more sense for him not to mention the file cabinets at all, and to make sure that they just "went missing"?

Is your using the word "exaggerating" here a a word-twisting synonym for "lying"?

Isn't that what you really want to say? "Lying"?

Or do you "now" think that whoever wrote the report was uhh... "exaggerating" in order to make Walthers look "bad" ?

Or do you "now" think that it was just a stupid, misguided attempt by the person who wrote the report to make Oswald look "worse" than he really "was"?

--Tommy

Well, Tommy, I don't know enough about Buddy Walthers to start accusing him. I'm willing to GUESS, but I don't know for sure, yet.

I feel confident that there never were "six or seven metal filing cabinets" in Ruth Paine's garage that contained names of Cuban Sympathizers.

My confidence comes from the FACT that nobody else saw them. Nobody photographed them. Nobody logged them. There is no official paperwork on them.

There are semi-official REPETITIONS of what Buddy Walther's said -- but no official paperwork on them.

OK. Why do I say EXAGGERATE? Because Ruth Paine said that the DPD took from her garage on 11/22/1963: "two boxes of Folk Dance records, two boxes of her college papers; one box of Oswald's FPCC fliers; and one box containing a 35mm projector."

That's six boxes. So, it seems to me that Buddy Walthers quickly glanced at this "Communist" material -- because every gun-totin' WASP cop knows that a Yankee Quaker is a "Communist," by definition.

So Buddy glances at Oswald's FPCC fliers. OK, that's Cuba material. PROOF that they're all a bunch of Communists!

Then Buddy looks at Ruth Paine's college papers. Sociology. Political Science. Words he could never understand. PROOF that they're all a bunch of Communists!

Then Buddy looks at Ruth's Folk Dance records. Oh my, a Russian Folk Dance! PROOF that they're all a bunch of Communists!

To make himself out to be somebody important at the DPD headquarters, Buddy Walthers boasts about what he found at Ruth Paine's garage -- "Well, you know, I found six or seven boxes full of Communist and Cuba material!"

"Wow, Buddy! You're the man! You probably busted a Communist cell wide open right here in Dallas! Gather 'round fellas, listen to this!"

"Well, you know, I need to look at it again, but I'm pretty sure it was six or seven metal filing cabinets full of Communist papers, with names of Cuba sympathizers, and so forth."

"Wow, Buddy! You cracked the case! Hey, everybody! Listen to what Buddy found!"

In the meantime, the Secret Service is logging two boxes of Folk Dance records, two boxes of college papers, one box of Oswald's FPCC fliers, and one box with a 35mm projector.

I don't need to accuse Buddy Walthers of lying. Exaggeration is enough for a WASP cop in 1963.

Of course, the JFK Killers did try to frame a COMMUNIST FPCC Director for the JFK murder. Reports went out of Dallas to all quarters, including to the FBI, with certainties that LHO was a COMMUNIST FPCC Director from New Orleans.

Was Buddy Walthers involved with these people? I don't know yet.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Well, Paul, I think you have an over-active imagination.

You should look into screen writing for daytime soap operas.

In My Humble Opinion, of course.

--Tommy

[Chris Newton]

I don't need to accuse Buddy Walthers of lying. Exaggeration is enough for a WASP cop in 1963.

Wow. How do we know he's protestant? He could be agnostic.

About the boxes/filing cabinet thing, how do we know Buddy didn't just switch out the communist manifestos and pinko rolodexes for Chubby Checker records when the plot required it?

[Paul Trejo]

Well, Paul, I think you have an over-active imagination.

You should look into screen writing for daytime soap operas.

In My Humble Opinion, of course.

--Tommy

The interesting thing, Tommy, is that almost none of this comes from my imagination -- but from eye-witness and official testimony and accounts.

Former CIA agent VIctor Marchetti said that LHO was a dangle in the USSR. LHO was never a Communist, but always a phony Communist.

Jim Garrison demonstrated very well that LHO worked for Guy Banister, a radical rightist in NOLA, always as a phony Communist.

Harry Dean says that he attended a JBS/Minuteman meeting in SoCal in September 1963 in which General Walker said that LHO was his Patsy.

Harry Dean says that he personally knew Loran Hall and Larry Howard, and helped them load their trailer with weapons and drugs for Cuban Exile training camps and groups like Interpen, and he literally saw them receive money to drive LHO to Mexico City from NOLA via Dallas.

The Lopez Report of 2003 demonstrates clearly that LHO was in Mexico City with phony Communist credentials -- which is why the Consulates shrugged him off.

And there's so much more eye-witness material that is just ignored by the CIA-did-it, Mafia-did-it, LBJ-did-it CTers.

All we need to do is take Marina Oswald at her word -- and Ruth Paine at her word -- and we can avoid all the nonsense that Walker was a sad old-man victim of LHO, and recognize that LHO really tried to kill Walker to please George DeM and Volkmar Schmidt.

Once we admit that LHO really tried to kill General Walker -- and then we take a GOOD LOOK at General Walker, and realize he was one of the greatest military minds of his generation who turned into a Radical Rightist fanatic -- then we can see clearly that: (1) General Walker plotted the JFK murder; and (2) General Walker made LHO into his Patsy in revenge for the April shooting.

Once that is certain, then all the tons of nonsense we find in the JFK CT literature for the past 50 years falls away like dandruff.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 5, 2015 by Paul Trejo