Ruth Paine

[Thomas Graves]

Well, Paul, I think you have an over-active imagination.

You should look into screen writing for daytime soap operas.

In My Humble Opinion, of course.

--Tommy

The interesting thing, Tommy, is that almost none of this comes from my imagination ...

[...]

Well, Paul. Of course not.

In My Humble Opinion, of course.

Just some of it.

I love the way you spin it weave it all together!

It makes me want to run out and buy some Huggies.

--Tommy

Edited November 5, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Gene Kelly]

Perhaps Buddy Walters was actually a devoted Quaker ... not a Protestant

[Paul Trejo]

The fact that so many of the attacks on Ruth Paine come from the Radical Right sympathizers (i.e. those who believe the WC testimony of General Walker -- the man who had a full-sized billboard on his front-lawn reading, IMPEACH EARL WARREN), and from the DPD and Dallas Sheriff sympathizers (e.g. those who believe Buddy Walthers), suggests CTers are not really interested in looking at the extensive new evidence of a Radical Right conspiracy to murder JFK.

General Walker is the key to the JFK murder -- and Ruth Paine has been the scapegoat for General Walker since the days of Jim Garrison.

The bizarre theory of the Garrison-followers, that Ruth Paine coordinated the "Walker Note," the BYP, the Walker photo, Marina's testimony and the De Mohrenschildt testimony, should have been exposed decades ago. The very fact that it survived nearly a half-century shows the profound weakness of the CIA-did-it scenario.

It's time to reevaluate the political kinship between Jim Garrison and Guy Banister. They didn't just have lunch together. They were chess partners for years.

Also -- the JFK murder wasn't a NOLA plot, it was a DALLAS plot. NOLA was only a support group. So -- is it possible that Jim Garrison suspected General Walker, but kept this under wraps?

This would go far in explaining why Jim Garrison chose to persecute Ruth Paine -- for NOTHING.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 5, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Brancato]

I have no doubts whatsoever that the conspiracy to kill JFK came from the radical right. I was blissfully unaware that the attacks on Ruth Paine come from right wing sympathizers.

[Paul Trejo]

Some CTers claim that Ruth Paine orchestrated the accusations that Lee Harvey Oswald tried to shoot General Walker (i.e. by "forging" the Walker Note, the Walker home photograph and the BYP, and by scripting Marina's story and the DeM stories.)

In their accusations, they absolve LHO from the Walker shooting.

By obscuring the important element of the Walker shooting in the JFK murder, they scramble the motive for the murder, and they scramble the motive for selecting this particular Patsy, LHO.

Furthermore -- they accuse Ruth Paine of lying to the WC, but they also insist that General Walker told the truth to the WC.

By defending General Walker's testimony, while attacking Ruth Paine's testimony -- they are supporting the Radical Right wing cause.

In effect (knowingly or not) they are defending General Walker whenever they attack Ruth Paine.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 5, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Chris Newton]

By defending General Walker's testimony, while attacking Ruth Paine's testimony -- they are supporting the Radical Right wing cause.

I believe Walker may have staged the entire episode. It would come as no surprise if Walker owned a Springfield '03 that could have fired a round through a window striking a wall and which later was removed and determined to be a 30.06 round.

This does not alter my suspicions of Ruth and Michael Paine one bit.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Chris Newton

[Paul Trejo]

It was bizarre to me 50 years ago -- and it remains bizarre to me today when people say that the Backyard Photographs convicted LHO of the JFK murder.

The rationale offered was -- "by showing that LHO was a homicidal maniac, most people were convinced he was guilty of the JFK murder."

Then we learned that the BYP's are FAKES. I completely accept the evidence of the experts.

So -- we are faced with the first Mystery: WHO CREATED THE BYP FAKES?

Nobody has proof -- but we hear that it *must have been* the CIA because the photography tricks are so sophisticated. Ruth Paine is blamed, but only after it is *presumed* that Ruth was a CIA Agent (because her step-mother's childhood friend had a romance with Allen Dulles in the 1950's.

This nonsense then goes on feeding on itself.

The more rational explanation is that Lee Harvey Oswald created the BYP FAKES himself when he worked at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall (and thus got himself fired).

Why would he do it? For PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY. That's why.

The BYP's commemorate the Walker shooting. (Not the JFK murder). They are strong evidence of LHO's shooting at Walker (like the Walker house photo, like the Walker letter, like Marina's testimony and like George and Jeanne DeM's testimony).

By accepting the LHO Walker shooting as *real* we remove 90% of the heat that is unfairly placed on Ruth Paine.

Doesn't this convict LHO of the JFK murder? By no means. It only convicts LHO of the bungled Walker shooting. And since Walker admits he learned it was LHO only a few days later, it also explains why LHO was made into the Patsy in Walker's JFK plot.

General Walker (along with Banister's crew) and the Dallas Minutemen killed JFK when he came to Dallas.

J. Edgar Hoover (along with LBJ, Dulles and Warren) decided the Truth was a National Security risk -- so they created the JFK Cover-up, including the Bethesda autopsy secrets. (The guilty were punished in other ways.)

Tippit was supposed to kill LHO, but failed his mission. Jack Ruby was pressured by the DPD to get revenge on this cop-killer, LHO, and so unwittingly completed Tippit's mission.

That's how it looks to me.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 5, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Jon G. Tidd]

Please excuse my ignorance, but who was the first person to assert that Oswald shot at Walker?

Paul Trejo, I believe the answer to the question "Who created the BYP fakes?" is best sought by seeking who had possession of the Imperial Reflex at various key times in 1963. IMO, Marina by her own W.C. testimony did not take the three BYP. Oswald obviously didn't take the BYP. If the BYP were taken by the Imperial Reflex, and that's an "if", someone other than Oswald or Marina took the BYP with the Imperial Reflex. I have to nominate Ruth Paine as the someone.

I don't believe Ruth or Michael were culpable in the killing of JFK. I do believe they knew right away Oswald had been set up; that the official story was going to be that Oswald did it; and that for their own well-being they needed to bolster this fiction.

Call Ruth Paine a good, charitable, Christian lady if you wish. I believe she knows far more than she's ever revealed.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Jon G. Tidd

[Paul Trejo]

Please excuse my ignorance, but who was the first person to assert that Oswald shot at Walker?

...

It's a great question, Jon. OFFICIALLY speaking, the FIRST time it appears as a statement (instead of a question) was 18 hours after JFK was murdered, when General Walker told this to German newspaper reporter Helmet Muench.

This is found on the Mary Ferrell web site, in the form of the German BND interview of Helmet Muench. Former Nazi newsman, Gerhard Frey, who was an old acquaintance of General Walker (probably from 1959 to 1961, when Walker was Commander of the ten thousand troops at Augsburg), had called Helmet Muench and arranged the interview. Muench from Germany called General Walker at about 6pm CST in Louisiana on 11/23/1963. Muench says Walker told him affirmatively that LHO had been his April shooter.

That newspaper article was then published on November 29th, 1963. Here's a sample: http://www.pet880.com/images/19631129_Deutsche_NZ.jpg

The SECOND affirmation of LHO's shooting at General Walker was by Marina Oswald to the FBI, on December 2nd, 1963, when she explained the circumstances of the "Walker Note" that the Secret Service found inside one of her books.

OK, that's the OFFICIAL record.

Now for the story by Dick Russell in his book, THE MAN WHO KNEW TOO MUCH (1992). According to Dick Russell's interview of Mr. and Mrs. Igor Voshinin, four days after the Walker shooting, George De Mohrenschildt came to visit the Voshinins early in the morning, Easter Sunday, and told them anxiously that he and Jeanne had visited the Oswalds the night before and found a rifle in their house.

George DeM had asked Lee, jokingly, "Lee did you take that potshot at General Walker?" At this point Lee froze, with a guilty look on his face. Then George burst out laughing, and they all laughed, and that was the end of it. But at that point George and Jeanne were convinced that LHO was the Walker shooter. After hearing George's story, Mrs. Voshinin insisted that George call the FBI and tell them immediately. George refused. But after he left, says Dick Russell's report, Mrs. Voshinin called the FBI and reported to them *affirmatively* that LHO had been General Walker's shooter four days earlier.

OK, that's Dick Russell's report of Mrs. Voshinin's story. IF (AND ONLY IF) that is true, then that would be the first time. But the FBI has not yielded any such report about that Easter Sunday 1963 report by Mrs. Voshinin. That might be explained by the standing order from J. Edgar Hoover to squash any evidence of a Conspiracy or accomplices of LHO -- I don't know. But Dick Russell's story ought to be confirmed or disconfirmed by the FBI one day, right?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 6, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Chris Newton]

I want to add some information about a subject that brought up earlier in this thread, USAID sometimes referred to as just the "Agency for International Development" (AID).

Ruth Paine's father did some "work" for AID. Some researchers have said "so what" and other researchers have pointed out that AID is frequently used for CIA cover. I personally don't know if Ruth Paine's father's role was one of intelligence gathering or benign statesmanship but I would like to put an end to the debate about the possibility that CIA may have used USIA as a cover.

This video has a lot of CIA info (it disappears from youtube frequently). If you watch just the first 4 minutes you will hear one CIA agent describe another CIA Agent planted in USIA in Uruguay and then hear an associate of that CIA Agent describe how they murdered some unfortunates to teach "students" how to apply torture techniques.

[Paul Trejo]

...Paul Trejo, I believe the answer to the question "Who created the BYP fakes?" is best sought by seeking who had possession of the Imperial Reflex at various key times in 1963. IMO, Marina by her own W.C. testimony did not take the three BYP. Oswald obviously didn't take the BYP. If the BYP were taken by the Imperial Reflex, and that's an "if", someone other than Oswald or Marina took the BYP with the Imperial Reflex. I have to nominate Ruth Paine as the someone.

I don't believe Ruth or Michael were culpable in the killing of JFK. I do believe they knew right away Oswald had been set up; that the official story was going to be that Oswald did it; and that for their own well-being they needed to bolster this fiction.

Call Ruth Paine a good, charitable, Christian lady if you wish. I believe she knows far more than she's ever revealed.

(1) Well, Jon, you've misunderstood several aspects of the BYP.

Marina testified that she actually did take one photograph of the BYP with that Imperial Reflex camera. That camera belonged to Lee Oswald. Marina re-affirmed to the WC that she took one, and only one, photograph. She remembered that clearly. She pushed the button only one time.

HOWEVER -- the WC refused to accept her testimony, because they had in their hands THREE different poses of BYP. Clearly LHO was standing in three different positions, so he had to change positions for THREE separate poses, and Marina -- insisted the WC -- *must have been* the one who took the other two pictures.

Marina denied it. She took only one, she said. She clearly remembered that. But the WC only raised its voice, and shouted, NO! We have THREE photograph here! Take a GOOD look! And pushed them in Marina's face.

Marina -- cowed by their anger and their dogged insistence replied, "Well, maybe I don't know cameras very well -- but I only remember taking one photo."

Experts have analyzed the BYP for decades -- and the consensus is that Oswald's face is superimposed on somebody else's body in all of the BYP's.

Jack White is one of those experts -- and Jack White showed -- convincingly, IMHO -- that the chin, neck, shoulders, right wrist and back-leaning-stance of those photographs all belong to Roscoe White -- a fellow Atsugi Marine who joined the DPD in October 1963 (and whose son Ricky claimed was one of the JFK shooters).

Of course, the FBI and WC could not go there -- because they built their case on a "Lone Nut" in order to squash any rumor of Conspiracy -- for National Security. So, the evidence that points to Roscoe White has been stomped on for 50 years. It's time to revive it, IMHO.

The best theory is that Marina took the first BYP, and then LHO took three more BYP's, with Roscoe White holding the weapons and newspapers. Then, LHO used the company equipment at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall where he worked, and completed the FAKES. The WC got three of the FAKES. Years later, the HSCA retrieved a fourth FAKE from Roscoe White's household. This is strong evidence for my theory, IMHO.

Ruth Paine had nothing to do with the BYP, and never even knew they existed until after the JFK assassination.

(2) Both Ruth and Michael Paine did indeed know right away that Oswald had been set up -- and they quickly suspected that "those people" who had printed the WANTED FOR TREASON:JFK handbill, as well as the WELCOME MR. KENNEDY TO DALLAS: WHY ARE YOU A COMMUNIST full-page black-bordered advertisement in the Dallas Morning News -- were the true killers.

Ruth and Michael Paine had to be convinced by months and months of hammering by the Warren Commission, relentlessly repeating the "Lone Nut" case with tons of circumstantial evidence -- before they reluctantly agreed.

Also, since the WC report, nothing convincing was ever published to identify anybody else for the JFK assassination. The CIA-did-it, Mafia-did-it, and LBJ-did-it CT's are each one more sloppy than the next, full of mere suspicion and naked speculation.

(3) Ruth Paine knows nothing more about the JFK murder than what she told the WC. She gave more testimony than dozens of other witnesses put together. She was called eight separate times. She is articulate, intelligent, insightful, and honest.

(3.1) Michael Paine is another story. He told the WC he had no idea that LHO had any weapons -- but he told Dan Rather in 1995 that he saw a BYP on April 2nd 1963 -- the very first time he met LHO in person.

(3.2) I hope somebody can find Michael Paine and ask him more about the BYP, General Walker and the JFK assassination.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 6, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Richard Gilbride]

Paul Trejo,

Thank you for providing a richer understanding of the names involved with the National Zeitung article. But I have to take issue again with regards to your contention that DeMohrenschildt provided the BYP to Life for its Feb. 21, 1964 cover. He was in Haiti at the time. When he returned to Dallas in 1967 he found in his storage garage a black-bordered version of CE-133-A, the pose used for the Life cover.

So when was this contract with Life dated, that you are claiming occurred with DeM? I have never heard about that. When did this information come out? What is this document's provenance- can it be trusted?

The quote I provided was directly footnoted by Armstrong- a memo from Rosen to Belmont a month after the cover, that "an enterprising young man" had provided the BYP to Life. Armstrong provided the document number and I am confident this is not a mistake on his part.

But this is only tiddlywinks.

You have a massive faux pas concerning Tippit being on the knoll, and have said that that conclusion derives from Tom Wilson's computer enhancements. I saw one of his videos a couple years ago, about the hole in the back of JFK's head. He's a talented enhancer and should probably be applying his skills toward Prayer Man instead of Badge Man. And Tippit as Badge Man is the brainchild of Robert Morningstar, where I would guess Wilson got his ideas from.

And they are as loopy as they get.

Photography is used in conjunction with other evidence, to support or detract from it. It is easily faked and doesn't have the evidentiary weight to stand alone, to be the sole determinant for a legal finding.

Imagine standing in front of a jury, holding up Mary Moorman's Polaroid, pointing at a bunch of leaves and the gaps of light between them, and professing that modern computer enhancements conclusively demonstrate that the pock-marked face you see in that bush is JD Tippit.

But then Tippit's defense attorney plays a tape of the transcript of the radio call "4100 block of Bonnie View" and then cross-examines the woman shoplifter Tippit put in his squad car outside Hodges Super Market.

The question you should be asking here is how was Tippit informed about this shoplifter, because it's not on any of the transcripts. Was it erased? Did he have a private back-channel, such as a walkie-talkie, to communicate with the dispatcher? Please consider the source of this shoplifter information: Larry Ray Harris, one of the most gifted, driven seekers of JFK truth to come down the pike.

Do you think Morningstar and Wilson did very much scholastic investigation of Tippit? As they say in the computer biz, "garbage in, garbage out".

I had never heard of Sgt. Patrick Dean being up on the knoll, but sorry, can't put my trust in the whimsical memory of Babushka Beverly. Dean interested me enough to record his HSCA interview at the Archives in 2010. He's my leading suspect for escorting Ruby into the DPD basement. The sound quality was not so hot and his audio interview did not get published at the ROKC site. But I've made an appeal to Greg in my recent interview to get some of those tapes on-line, for the historical content.

[Jon G. Tidd]

"Dangle"? I never heard this term in my intelligence training or intelligence work. It's an inviting term. It suggests "bait".

So, Marina's husband was sent to the USSR as bait; sent by some U.S. intelligence organization.

Think about how ridiculous this is.

Marchetti was a B.S. artist who had a brief heydey in the 1970s. He revealed nothing important. What he wrote was misleading.

"Dangle" is a term meant to deceive you. It's a term that appears to be infused with meaning. It means nothing.

Sure, there were some double agents. So I've heard. Sure, M.I. sought to infiltrate anti-war groups in the 1960s. None of this activity involved "bait".

"Bait" is the stuff of fiction, not history.

[Paul Trejo]

Richard, thanks again for the relevant discussion. I'm pleased that we at least agree that the DPD involvement in the JFK murder is greater than generally presumed.

Regarding the George De Mohrenschildt connection with LIFE magazine, I reviewed my sources, and I must now admit that I was mistaken. I had recalled the sources incorrectly, and I thought this was settled, years ago. So I apologize.

To clarify the source of my error, here's the account from George DeM himself in his 1978 manuscript, I'm A Patsy! I'm A Patsy! Notice the part where George De Mohrenschildt calls his friend at LIFE magazine to dicker about publishing his version of the BYP.

---------------- BEGIN EXTRACT OF DE MOHRENSCHILDT 1978 TRANSCRIPT ------------------------

My wife began taking the albums out of the box and as she opened to see if the records were not broken, she shrieked almost hysterically.

"Look, there is a picture of Lee Oswald here!"

This was the same, so controversial picture of Lee, which appeared on the cover the defunct "Life". Many newspapermen and "investigators" had assumed and had written hundreds of pages that this picture was a fabrication, a "fake", a superimposed photograph. Frankly we did not care but now, right there, was a proof that the picture was genuine.

We stood literally frozen stiff, Lee staring at us in his martial pose, the famous rifle in his hands. like in a Marine parade. It was a gift for us from beyond his grave.

"What did he mean by leaving this picture to us?" I wondered aloud. "He was not a vain kind of a person."

Then Jeanne shouted excitedly again: "look there is an inscription here. It read: "To my dear friend George from Lee." and the date followed -- April 1963, at the time when we were thousand of miles away in Haiti. I kept looking at the picture and the inscription deeply moved, my thoughts going back when Lee was alive.

Then I slowly turned the photograph and there was another epitaph, seemingly in Marina's handwriting, in Russian. In translation it reads; "This is the hunter of fascists! Ha! Ha! Ha!"

Here Marina was again making fun of her husband, jeering Lee's very serious anti-fascists feelings, which we knew so well and described in several chapters of this book.

It's hard to describe the impact of this discovery on us, especially Lee's dedication and Marina's inscription. This message from beyond the grave was amazing and shocking. From the grave we did not even dare to visit, because FBI considered with suspicion all the visitors at Lee's burial place.

The confirmation that Lee considered me his best friend flattered me but Marina's message expressed a chilling scorn for her husband. Anyway, if he were a hunter of fascists, and we agree with such a description, who was the making fun of him?

First of all it makes one doubt her assertion that Lee tried to shoot General Walker, secondly for a Soviet Russian refugee the word "fascist" is not a laughing matter -- some fifteen million people lost their lives fighting them. And how many more died of cold and hunger?

We kept this photograph for ourselves and showed it only to a few close friends. Their reactions were interesting: to some the photograph indicated that Lee was a maniac, a killer, it constituted a proof of his aggressiveness, of his guilt.

To others, just the opposite -- it gave him the aura of a militant idealist. The man of such anti-fascist inclinations COULD NOT be the assassin of the most liberal and race-conscious president in the history of the United States.

We did not show the photograph to any authorities, to them Lee Harvey Oswald's case was closed and we did not want any further involvements. Neither did we show it to any investigators or reporters in the United States.

But I did write a letter to a friend, one of the editors of LIFE Magazine, explaining that I had a message from Lee Harvey Oswald and I did ask him to keep the matter confidential. I added to my letter a short resume of the facts - how this picture got into our possession.

Immediately I received a call from my friend saying that LIFE had a team working on Oswald's case, a team of investigators, because the magazine had doubts of Warren Committee's conclusions.

The next day a reporter assigned to the assassination case called me and we talked for a long time. He was intimately familiar with all the details, psychological and technical, of this unbelievable complex case, having worked on it since November 1963. Like ourselves, he was at Marina's inscription and gave it the same meaning as ourselves.

"We shall use to as a main feature of our special edition if and when we know something definite about Oswald's involvement or of his innocence," he said.

Again I asked the man to keep this matter confidential temporarily and he promised to do so.

Obviously either LIFE's people were talkative or, more probable, our telephone was tapped. This we found at several occasions. Now we know much more about "Watergate" type tactics of our government agencies, especially FBI, but at the time we did not have anything to conceal -- except the existence of this picture -- and this only for our own sentimental reasons.

Whenever we heard a suspicious noise on the telephone, we laughed, spoke in foreign languages or made offensive remarks at whoever was listening in. Some voluminous files must be hidden somewhere containing "transcripts", translations and obliterations of our conversations...

---------------- BEGIN EXTRACT OF DE MOHRENSCHILDT 1978 TRANSCRIPT ------------------------

So, Richard, now I'm asking you -- who gave the BYP to LIFE magazine -- and how do we know this?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 8, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

"Dangle"? I never heard this term in my intelligence training or intelligence work. It's an inviting term. It suggests "bait".

So, Marina's husband was sent to the USSR as bait; sent by some U.S. intelligence organization.

Think about how ridiculous this is.

Marchetti was a B.S. artist who had a brief heydey in the 1970s. He revealed nothing important. What he wrote was misleading.

"Dangle" is a term meant to deceive you. It's a term that appears to be infused with meaning. It means nothing.

Sure, there were some double agents. So I've heard. Sure, M.I. sought to infiltrate anti-war groups in the 1960s. None of this activity involved "bait".

"Bait" is the stuff of fiction, not history.

Jon,

Are you a dangle? Hmmm?

--Tommy

Edited November 8, 2015 by Thomas Graves