Ruth Paine

[Paul Brancato]

Well Paul -

Thanks for outlining James DiEugenio excellent arguments for why Ruth Paine should have been questioned more thoroughly, and why she should be put under a microscope and investigated by a grand jury. That last sentence proves the point that all James and others have done is state that Ruth deserves a closer look. Reams of circumstantial evidence have led James and others to their conclusions. And all you have in her defense Paul is that she was a Quaker. You of all people, whose theories are completely unproven, ask others to prove their suspicions constantly. The pot calling the kettle black.

I'll say it again - you are baiting DiEugenio for some reason.

[Chris Newton]

But James believes the White Russian Community and the Russian Orthodox Church were CIA Agents.

Whoa there cowboy! I think that was me, in this thread, that threw suspicion on the 'oil engineering / church lady - like' Orthodox Dallas Ruskies. I haven't read Destiny Betrayed yet but if you are referring to that tome, then that's further confirmation to me that that community of exiles requires further scrutiny since Jim and I, independently come to the same conclusions.

CIA Agent Ruth Paine

Can you cite any instance anywhere that anyone you've been raving about has called her an "Agent" or is this simply another "Trejoism"?

[Paul Trejo]

But James believes the White Russian Community and the Russian Orthodox Church were CIA Agents.

Whoa there cowboy! I think that was me, in this thread, that threw suspicion on the 'oil engineering / church lady - like' Orthodox Dallas Ruskies. I haven't read Destiny Betrayed yet but if you are referring to that tome, then that's further confirmation to me that that community of exiles requires further scrutiny since Jim and I, independently come to the same conclusions.

Well, Chris, I took that from the second edition of Destiny Betrayed (2012), page 193. Here's what James DiEugenio wrote:

----------- BEGIN EXCERPT "DESTINY BETRAYED" (2012) by James DiEugenio ------------------------------------

...The late Philip Melanson pointed out that many of the White Russians brought to the USA after the war came via the Tolstoy Foundation, which was in receipt of yearly subsidies from the CIA. In addition, the Russian Orthodox Church, which had a branch in Dallas also received CIA funds. One only has to look at George [De Mohrenschildt]’s brother Dimitri to understand the CIA influence in the White Russian Community.

There is a correspondence between Dimitri and Allen Dulles, going back as far as 1953. Dimitri was involved in Radio Free Europe, the CIA sponsored propaganda arm which tried to broadcast anti-Communist programming into Eastern Europe. Dimitri was also the co-founder of a journal called, Russian Review during the fifties and sixties.

This appears to have been a CIA related endeavor. Dimitri’s friend and co-editor for this publication was a man named William Chamberlain, a conservative columnist for the Wall Street Journal.

----------- END EXCERPT "DESTINY BETRAYED" (2012) by James DiEugenio ------------------------------------

There we see James DiEugenio using innuendo to link the Russian Orthodox Church with the CIA, along with the entire White Russian community in Dallas.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Paul Brancato]

Well Paul - thanks for showing that you were exaggerating, putting words in someone's mouth that they never uttered.

[David G. Healy]

Oh I doubt anyone will forget, nor doubt your vivid imagination, Paul. Now to more important matters, will you post a cite for the below, please:

Trejo quote on:

"Remember -- y'all started it when you started accusing innocent people of murder. These people are still alive, and their children can read your accusations. Y'all owe lots of apologies."

Trejo quote off

WHO is the alleged innocent party and WHO accused said party of murder? Cite please.

Perhaps it's YOU that owes this entire forum an apology?

Well, David, I gather that you're a long-time fan of James DiEugenio.

Apparently you believe that everybody on the Forum is a big fan of James DiEugenio. This would explain why you believe that I owe "this entire forum" an apology. This is because you presume that when I criticize James DiEugenio, that I criticize everybody here.

Yet that's simply inaccurate. Not everybody on this Forum is a fan of James DiEugenio and his sloppy thinking about Ruth Paine and other matters regarding the JFK assassination.

You ask me, "WHO is the alleged innocent party and WHO accused said party of murder? Cite please."

The alleged innocent party, David, is none other than the theme of this thread, Ruth Paine. James DiEugenio accuses Ruth of participating in a material way in a CIA plot to kill JFK. Nevermind that there's no proof of such a CIA plot, nevertheless, James DiEugenio presumes that there was (on the authority of Jim Garrison) and James DiEugenio further presumes that Ruth Paine was part of that murder.

So, David, to answer your question tersely: Ruth Paine is the alleged innocent party, and James DiEugenio accused her of murder.

Evidence for my claim is found in pages 193-208 within the second edition of James DiEugenio's book, Destiny Betrayed (2012), in the section, The Baron, the Paines, and Dulles. I posted several criticisms (assorted posts from #292 to #322) of these weak arguments some weeks ago on this thread, but for the sake of brevity, I'll summarize the eighteen criticisms here:

1. James DiEugenio says that George DeMohrenschildt was a CIA Agent who “handed over” the Oswalds to the CIA Agent couple, the Paines, during a February 22nd 1963 party at Everett Glover’s apartment. DiEugenio is certain that the Paines had known the DeMohrenschildt’s for a long time, despite Ruth’s 1964 claim that she met them for the first and last time in her life, at that party. (James accused Ruth's 1964 testimony of perjury, based on the fact that she met them again in 1966!)

2. James DiEugenio insists, that Michael Paine had “hidden associations” in the CIA, namely, the elder members of his own family – a grand uncle and a cousin involved in United Fruit, and another cousin who leased land to David Atlee Phillips for Radio Swan. Oh – and Michael’s mother had a childhood friend who later became the mistress of Allen Dulles. This figures huge in James’ theory.

3. James DiEugenio insists that Ruth Paine had “hidden associations” in the CIA, namely, her father, an insurance actuary, also led an organization called AID (Agency for International Development) to stimulate business in Latin America. As the CIA would often hitch a ride with USA international corporations, to seek out international crime, James concludes that AID=CIA. Ruth’s brother in law also worked there. Ruth denied knowing they were in the CIA. Ruth’s elder sister was a psychologist – who secretly worked for the CIA, and Ruth denied knowing that, too. James just accuses Ruth of lying about not knowing.

4. Dallas Sheriff’s Deputy Buddy Walthers claimed that he saw in Ruth Paine’s garage “six or seven metal filing cabinets with names of Castro sympathizers.” The fact that no other witnesses ever saw these, and they were never documented, and never photographed, doesn’t slow down James DiEugenio at all. He’s certain they prove Ruth Paine was a CIA Agent.

5. James DiEugenio accuses Ruth Paine of CIA murder in Nicaragua, because she was part of an Interfaith movement of Catholics, Quakers, Methodists and other churches in 1991 to provide Relief to women and children in the Civil War torn region. (James has an open Forum thread on just this topic.) When further deaths of Relief Workers became a great strain, the leaders of the movement asked Ruth Paine to please return to the USA because her history with Lee Harvey Oswald and the JFK assassination made too many people suspicious and afraid. Ruth understood and complied as soon as she was requested. But James accuses Ruth Paine of CIA murder in Nicaragua, which he also presumes is evidence that Ruth Paine helped the CIA murder JFK.

6. A personal friend of Ruth Paine confided to journalist Steven Jones elements of her conversations with Ruth Paine about Ruth's strained relationship with her daughter, who was into Wicca at that time. One of the statements Ruth’s daughter said was that her mother could never be free until she confronted the “evil” within her. No more detail was given, but James DiEugenio presumes that this referred to Ruth’s role in the CIA conspiracy to murder JFK.

7. Marina Oswald told the FBI in early December 1963 that LHO confessed to her on the night of 10 April 1963 that he had tried to kill General Walker at his Dallas home. According to James DiEugenio, LHO never shot at Walker, but Ruth Paine and the CIA forged evidence to make it appear so, and somehow made Marina Oswald perjure herself, and also made George and Jeanne DeMohrenschildt perjure themselves on this topic.

8. The “Walker Note,” which was verified by handwriting experts to be written by LHO, and sworn by Marina Oswald to have been left in her possession by LHO on 10 April 1963, is a set of instructions, in Russian language, telling Marina what to do in case he got arrested on that night. According to James DiEugenio, Ruth Paine forged the "Walker Note" to frame LHO for the Walker shooting.

9. James DiEugenio even recognizes the mismatch between the Walker shooting and the JFK shooting – Walker was missed; JFK was hit – Walker was a fascist, JFK was a liberal. Despite the fuzzy connection, James is comfortable blaming Ruth Paine for framing LHO for the Walker shooting so that she could also frame LHO for the JFK assassination.

10. James DiEugenio also insinuates that of the four cameras the DPD found in Ruth Paine’s house: the Cuera, the Stereo Realist, the Imperial Reflex and the miniature Minox spy camera, that the latter two really belonged to Ruth Paine, because she was the spy and the Walker photos were taken with the Imperial Reflex. That's the extent of his logic.

11. James DiEugenio denies that LHO went to Mexico City, but insists that CIA Agent Ruth Paine framed LHO as having been there by using Mexican souvenirs which were all CIA props. James’ proof is that LHO denied it, and at first Marina just denied everything to the FBI. (James prefers to believe Marina’s blanket denials to the FBI and Secret Service when she was first put under house-arrest, and wasn’t under oath – over the times when she was comfortably in her own home and was under oath.) James also omits the Lopez Report (a formerly classified CIA report that became a FOIA release in 2003) which confirms that LHO was indeed in Mexico City.

12. James DiEugenio accuses Ruth Paine or the CIA of inventing the Undelivered, Undeliverable package that was officially reported in the Irving Post Office nine days after the JFK assassination, addressed to Lee Oswald at a bogus address, which contained nothing but a paper bag. In James’ imagination, the CIA hoped that LHO would put his fingerprints on the paper bag, so they could link this paper bag with the one later found at the TSBD 6th floor. James has no explanation for the fizzling failure of this imaginary plot.

13. James DiEugenio strains to link the Undelivered, Undeliverable package (which has no date or postage on it) onto a Postage Due notice of November 20th 1963 found at Ruth Paine's house. Although the Post Office says it was fulfilled with a ‘magazine delivery,’ James insists it couldn’t have been fulfilled, because it *must have been* for the Undelivered, Undeliverable package. After the JFK assassination, claims James, the CIA or FBI put a bogus address sticker over Ruth Paine’s address to conceal this imaginary CIA plot. Sheesh.

14. James DiEugenio seizes upon a double “Postal Form” found in Ruth Paine's house, with the name and address of both George Bouhe, leader of the White Russian Community, and Lee Harvey Oswald. That *must have been* a CIA plot – somehow. Actually, since LHO was also receiving mail at Ruth Paine's house, and George Bouhe was well-known to both Marina and Lee Oswald, there is no real mystery. But James believes the White Russian Community and the Russian Orthodox Church were CIA Agents.

15. James DiEugenio harps on Ruth’s marking in her calendar on the day after the JFK assassination that LHO bought a rifle back in March. Ruth explained it as a result of the pressure of this news hitting everybody from all sides on 11/23/1963, when she made the entry. James finds her explanation, “bewildering.”

16. James DiEugenio then claims that Ruth Paine couldn’t have wanted to improve her Russian conversational skills by having Marina Oswald live with her, because Ruth was already fluent enough, in James DiEugenio’s opinion. She could teach small boys Russian grammar – so what more could she possibly want?

17. James DiEugenio is "surprised" that Ruth Paine could be offended by the way LHO treated her from jail –- phoning her, cool and calm, and bossing her like a personal secretary to call attorney Abt for him – and keep calling until she got him. I think most people would be offended. I know I would have.

18. James DiEugenio expresses outrage at a report that Michael Paine told the Houston Post on November 23 that Oswald may have been involved in the Walker shooting. But the only source James cites for this is PROBE magazine – his pal’s journal. (Somebody told the Houston Post, but nobody knows who. Robert Allen Surrey is a better guess, IMHO; or Walker himself as he told the Deutsche Nationalzeitung less than 18 hours after JFK was killed.)

Anyway, there it is. Based on this “careful research” James DiEugenio claims that “the Paines should be on the short list to be sworn before a grand jury.” (DB2, p. 208) It’s “open season” on the Paines, announced James DiEugenio. The 18 points above are examples of his marksmanship.

Regards,

Paul Trejo

Frankly I've never met Jim. Although he has my admiration as an author, reviewer and investigator.

Is there any doubt as to why the WCR played touchy-feely with Ruth Paine and her association with the murder of the century accused and his family?

The above 18 points looks like an investigative road map for an intensive, all round investigative documentary (with some modifications) regarding a major player re the assassination of a sitting president of the United States... is that what your sniffing around for, Paul?

P.S. It may of escaped me Paul but I see no accusation of murder made by anyone, but I do hear what you're now turning into a *siren call* for a grand jury investigation.

Perhaps you're representing a law firm these days? AND you still failed to cite the "murder" claim

Edited November 12, 2015 by David G. Healy

[Paul Trejo]

CIA Agent Ruth Paine

Can you cite any instance anywhere that anyone you've been raving about has called her an "Agent" or is this simply another "Trejoism"?

Well, Chris, I get that also from the second edition of Destiny Betrayed (2012), page 199. Here's what James DiEugenio wrote:

----------- BEGIN EXCERPT "DESTINY BETRAYED" (2012) by James DiEugenio ------------------------------------

...This portraying as a liberal Quaker, but then acting as a sdurveillance agent, was not just vaguely suggested by Allen Dulles.. It was clearly suspected by other intelligence agencies about the Paines...When a member of the grand jury asked Marina Oswald if she sill associated with Ruth Paine, Marina replied that she did not . When asked why she did not, Marina said that it was upon the advice of the Secret Service...They had told her it would not look good if the public found out that "she [Ruth] had friends over there and it would be bad for me if people fine out connection between me and Ruth and CIA."

...When Ruth's surveillance activities finally became too suspicious in Nicaragua, the two women drove to Costa Rica...When they arrived near the Costa Rican camp, some people approached the car to help them out. When they saw it was Ruth, they walked away, moaning, "Oh no, its Ruth Paine. Keep away from her. She's CIA."

----------- END EXCERPT "DESTINY BETRAYED" (2012) by James DiEugenio ------------------------------------

There we see James DiEugenio using innuendo to portray Ruth Paine as a CIA "surveillance agent."

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Ernie Lazar]

Oh I doubt anyone will forget, nor doubt your vivid imagination, Paul. Now to more important matters, will you post a cite for the below, please:

Trejo quote on:

"Remember -- y'all started it when you started accusing innocent people of murder. These people are still alive, and their children can read your accusations. Y'all owe lots of apologies."

Trejo quote off

WHO is the alleged innocent party and WHO accused said party of murder? Cite please.

Perhaps it's YOU that owes this entire forum an apology?

Well, David, I gather that you're a long-time fan of James DiEugenio.

Apparently you believe that everybody on the Forum is a big fan of James DiEugenio. This would explain why you believe that I owe "this entire forum" an apology. This is because you presume that when I criticize James DiEugenio, that I criticize everybody here.

Yet that's simply inaccurate. Not everybody on this Forum is a fan of James DiEugenio and his sloppy thinking about Ruth Paine and other matters regarding the JFK assassination.

You ask me, "WHO is the alleged innocent party and WHO accused said party of murder? Cite please."

The alleged innocent party, David, is none other than the theme of this thread, Ruth Paine. James DiEugenio accuses Ruth of participating in a material way in a CIA plot to kill JFK. Nevermind that there's no proof of such a CIA plot, nevertheless, James DiEugenio presumes that there was (on the authority of Jim Garrison) and James DiEugenio further presumes that Ruth Paine was part of that murder.

So, David, to answer your question tersely: Ruth Paine is the alleged innocent party, and James DiEugenio accused her of murder.

Evidence for my claim is found in pages 193-208 within the second edition of James DiEugenio's book, Destiny Betrayed (2012), in the section, The Baron, the Paines, and Dulles. I posted several criticisms (assorted posts from #292 to #322) of these weak arguments some weeks ago on this thread, but for the sake of brevity, I'll summarize the eighteen criticisms here:

1. James DiEugenio says that George DeMohrenschildt was a CIA Agent who “handed over” the Oswalds to the CIA Agent couple, the Paines, during a February 22nd 1963 party at Everett Glover’s apartment. DiEugenio is certain that the Paines had known the DeMohrenschildt’s for a long time, despite Ruth’s 1964 claim that she met them for the first and last time in her life, at that party. (James accused Ruth's 1964 testimony of perjury, based on the fact that she met them again in 1966!)

2. James DiEugenio insists, that Michael Paine had “hidden associations” in the CIA, namely, the elder members of his own family – a grand uncle and a cousin involved in United Fruit, and another cousin who leased land to David Atlee Phillips for Radio Swan. Oh – and Michael’s mother had a childhood friend who later became the mistress of Allen Dulles. This figures huge in James’ theory.

3. James DiEugenio insists that Ruth Paine had “hidden associations” in the CIA, namely, her father, an insurance actuary, also led an organization called AID (Agency for International Development) to stimulate business in Latin America. As the CIA would often hitch a ride with USA international corporations, to seek out international crime, James concludes that AID=CIA. Ruth’s brother in law also worked there. Ruth denied knowing they were in the CIA. Ruth’s elder sister was a psychologist – who secretly worked for the CIA, and Ruth denied knowing that, too. James just accuses Ruth of lying about not knowing.

4. Dallas Sheriff’s Deputy Buddy Walthers claimed that he saw in Ruth Paine’s garage “six or seven metal filing cabinets with names of Castro sympathizers.” The fact that no other witnesses ever saw these, and they were never documented, and never photographed, doesn’t slow down James DiEugenio at all. He’s certain they prove Ruth Paine was a CIA Agent.

5. James DiEugenio accuses Ruth Paine of CIA murder in Nicaragua, because she was part of an Interfaith movement of Catholics, Quakers, Methodists and other churches in 1991 to provide Relief to women and children in the Civil War torn region. (James has an open Forum thread on just this topic.) When further deaths of Relief Workers became a great strain, the leaders of the movement asked Ruth Paine to please return to the USA because her history with Lee Harvey Oswald and the JFK assassination made too many people suspicious and afraid. Ruth understood and complied as soon as she was requested. But James accuses Ruth Paine of CIA murder in Nicaragua, which he also presumes is evidence that Ruth Paine helped the CIA murder JFK.

6. A personal friend of Ruth Paine confided to journalist Steven Jones elements of her conversations with Ruth Paine about Ruth's strained relationship with her daughter, who was into Wicca at that time. One of the statements Ruth’s daughter said was that her mother could never be free until she confronted the “evil” within her. No more detail was given, but James DiEugenio presumes that this referred to Ruth’s role in the CIA conspiracy to murder JFK.

7. Marina Oswald told the FBI in early December 1963 that LHO confessed to her on the night of 10 April 1963 that he had tried to kill General Walker at his Dallas home. According to James DiEugenio, LHO never shot at Walker, but Ruth Paine and the CIA forged evidence to make it appear so, and somehow made Marina Oswald perjure herself, and also made George and Jeanne DeMohrenschildt perjure themselves on this topic.

8. The “Walker Note,” which was verified by handwriting experts to be written by LHO, and sworn by Marina Oswald to have been left in her possession by LHO on 10 April 1963, is a set of instructions, in Russian language, telling Marina what to do in case he got arrested on that night. According to James DiEugenio, Ruth Paine forged the "Walker Note" to frame LHO for the Walker shooting.

9. James DiEugenio even recognizes the mismatch between the Walker shooting and the JFK shooting – Walker was missed; JFK was hit – Walker was a fascist, JFK was a liberal. Despite the fuzzy connection, James is comfortable blaming Ruth Paine for framing LHO for the Walker shooting so that she could also frame LHO for the JFK assassination.

10. James DiEugenio also insinuates that of the four cameras the DPD found in Ruth Paine’s house: the Cuera, the Stereo Realist, the Imperial Reflex and the miniature Minox spy camera, that the latter two really belonged to Ruth Paine, because she was the spy and the Walker photos were taken with the Imperial Reflex. That's the extent of his logic.

11. James DiEugenio denies that LHO went to Mexico City, but insists that CIA Agent Ruth Paine framed LHO as having been there by using Mexican souvenirs which were all CIA props. James’ proof is that LHO denied it, and at first Marina just denied everything to the FBI. (James prefers to believe Marina’s blanket denials to the FBI and Secret Service when she was first put under house-arrest, and wasn’t under oath – over the times when she was comfortably in her own home and was under oath.) James also omits the Lopez Report (a formerly classified CIA report that became a FOIA release in 2003) which confirms that LHO was indeed in Mexico City.

12. James DiEugenio accuses Ruth Paine or the CIA of inventing the Undelivered, Undeliverable package that was officially reported in the Irving Post Office nine days after the JFK assassination, addressed to Lee Oswald at a bogus address, which contained nothing but a paper bag. In James’ imagination, the CIA hoped that LHO would put his fingerprints on the paper bag, so they could link this paper bag with the one later found at the TSBD 6th floor. James has no explanation for the fizzling failure of this imaginary plot.

13. James DiEugenio strains to link the Undelivered, Undeliverable package (which has no date or postage on it) onto a Postage Due notice of November 20th 1963 found at Ruth Paine's house. Although the Post Office says it was fulfilled with a ‘magazine delivery,’ James insists it couldn’t have been fulfilled, because it *must have been* for the Undelivered, Undeliverable package. After the JFK assassination, claims James, the CIA or FBI put a bogus address sticker over Ruth Paine’s address to conceal this imaginary CIA plot. Sheesh.

14. James DiEugenio seizes upon a double “Postal Form” found in Ruth Paine's house, with the name and address of both George Bouhe, leader of the White Russian Community, and Lee Harvey Oswald. That *must have been* a CIA plot – somehow. Actually, since LHO was also receiving mail at Ruth Paine's house, and George Bouhe was well-known to both Marina and Lee Oswald, there is no real mystery. But James believes the White Russian Community and the Russian Orthodox Church were CIA Agents.

15. James DiEugenio harps on Ruth’s marking in her calendar on the day after the JFK assassination that LHO bought a rifle back in March. Ruth explained it as a result of the pressure of this news hitting everybody from all sides on 11/23/1963, when she made the entry. James finds her explanation, “bewildering.”

16. James DiEugenio then claims that Ruth Paine couldn’t have wanted to improve her Russian conversational skills by having Marina Oswald live with her, because Ruth was already fluent enough, in James DiEugenio’s opinion. She could teach small boys Russian grammar – so what more could she possibly want?

17. James DiEugenio is "surprised" that Ruth Paine could be offended by the way LHO treated her from jail –- phoning her, cool and calm, and bossing her like a personal secretary to call attorney Abt for him – and keep calling until she got him. I think most people would be offended. I know I would have.

18. James DiEugenio expresses outrage at a report that Michael Paine told the Houston Post on November 23 that Oswald may have been involved in the Walker shooting. But the only source James cites for this is PROBE magazine – his pal’s journal. (Somebody told the Houston Post, but nobody knows who. Robert Allen Surrey is a better guess, IMHO; or Walker himself as he told the Deutsche Nationalzeitung less than 18 hours after JFK was killed.)

Anyway, there it is. Based on this “careful research” James DiEugenio claims that “the Paines should be on the short list to be sworn before a grand jury.” (DB2, p. 208) It’s “open season” on the Paines, announced James DiEugenio. The 18 points above are examples of his marksmanship.

Regards,

Paul Trejo

Although I have no dog in this fight -- it may be significant to remind everyone that 2 of the 4 remaining FBI documents which are scheduled to be released in October 2017 are serials from the FBI HQ main file on Ruth Paine.

[Paul Trejo]

Frankly I've never met Jim. Although he has my admiration as an author, reviewer and investigator.

Is there any doubt as to why the WCR played touchy-feely with Ruth Paine and her association with the murder of the century accused and his family?

The above 18 points looks like an investigative road map for an intensive, all round investigative documentary (with some modifications) regarding a major player re the assassination of a sitting president of the United States... is that what your sniffing around for, Paul?

P.S. It may of escaped me Paul but I see no accusation of murder made by anyone, but I do hear what you're now turning into a *siren call* for a grand jury investigation.

Perhaps you're representing a law firm these days? AND you still failed to cite the "murder" claim

Well, David, I used to regard James DiEugenio as a valuable JFK researcher, but his performance in his more recent works has left me disappointed.

You say I fail to cite a "murder" claim, which is strange, since you yourself infer the same murder claim in your statement, and I quote: "Is there any doubt as to why the WCR played touchy-feely with Ruth Paine and her association with the murder of the century accused and his family?"

First, I don't believe the WC played "touchy-feely" with Ruth Paine in their JFK murder investigation. Ruth Paine answered more questions than any other WC witness. Walt Brown says that Ruth Paine answered 5,236 questions for the WC. By contrast, Marina Oswald with 2,615 questions, and Jack Ruby answered 760 questions for the WC.

James DiEugenio claims that Ruth Paine tried to frame LHO for the Walker shooting, and that she produced the BYP, and that she manipulated events to place LHO in the Texas School Book Depository building by the time JFK drove past it. This is all in Destiny Betrayed (2012). Trying to paint Ruth Paine with a role in the murder of JFK is part of James DiEugenio;s theory.

To help him make that CIA-did-it link with Ruth Paine, James DiEugenio also implicates Ruth Paine of CIA murder in Nicaragua in the 1990's, both in his book and in his current Forum thread

The 18 points given above reveal a series of lame arguments REACHING to implicate Ruth Paine in the JFK murder. James fails to present even one piece of solid evidence.

I have no connection to any law firm, David -- but I do find it morally offensive when I see a genuine Quaker Charity Lady trashed in public the way that James DiEugenio (and Carol Hewett) treat her.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[David G. Healy]

Frankly I've never met Jim. Although he has my admiration as an author, reviewer and investigator.

Is there any doubt as to why the WCR played touchy-feely with Ruth Paine and her association with the murder of the century accused and his family?

The above 18 points looks like an investigative road map for an intensive, all round investigative documentary (with some modifications) regarding a major player re the assassination of a sitting president of the United States... is that what your sniffing around for, Paul?

P.S. It may of escaped me Paul but I see no accusation of murder made by anyone, but I do hear what you're now turning into a *siren call* for a grand jury investigation.

Perhaps you're representing a law firm these days? AND you still failed to cite the "murder" claim

Well, David, I used to regard James DiEugenio as a valuable JFK researcher, but his performance in his more recent works has left me disappointed.

You say I fail to cite a "murder" claim, which is strange, since you yourself infer the same murder claim in your statement, and I quote: "Is there any doubt as to why the WCR played touchy-feely with Ruth Paine and her association with the murder of the century accused and his family?"

First, I don't believe the WC played "touchy-feely" with Ruth Paine in their JFK murder investigation. Ruth Paine answered more questions than any other WC witness. Walt Brown says that Ruth Paine answered 5,236 questions for the WC. By contrast, Marina Oswald with 2,615 questions, and Jack Ruby answered 760 questions for the WC.

James DiEugenio claims that Ruth Paine tried to frame LHO for the Walker shooting, and that she produced the BYP, and that she manipulated events to place LHO in the Texas School Book Depository building by the time JFK drove past it. This is all in Destiny Betrayed (2012). Trying to paint Ruth Paine with a role in the murder of JFK is part of James DiEugenio;s theory.

To help him make that CIA-did-it link with Ruth Paine, James DiEugenio also implicates Ruth Paine of CIA murder in Nicaragua in the 1990's, both in his book and in his current Forum thread

The 18 points given above reveal a series of lame arguments REACHING to implicate Ruth Paine in the JFK murder. James fails to present even one piece of solid evidence.

I have no connection to any law firm, David -- but I do find it morally offensive when I see a genuine Quaker Charity Lady trashed in public the way that James DiEugenio (and Carol Hewett) treat her.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

oh Paul, infer? A cite, please... who accused on this forum Ruth Paine of murder? The only one raising that topic here is YOU, although you have toned it down a bit...

And of course the WCR played touchy-feely with a whole host of characters. George DeM for instance, how many questions did he answer re the WC?

Quick summary of WCR/RPaine questions please?

Edited November 12, 2015 by David G. Healy

[Paul Trejo]

oh Paul, infer? A cite, please... who accused on this forum Ruth Paine of murder? The only one raising that topic here is YOU, although you have toned it down a bit...

And of course the WCR played touchy-feely with a whole host of characters. George DeM for instance, how many questions did he answer re the WC?

Quick summary of WCR/RPaine questions please?

Say, David, have you read the second edition of Destiny Betrayed (2012) by James DiEugenio? Because it sounds like you haven't.

James DiEugenio is using every literary trick in the book to link Ruth Paine with a CIA that he is certain killed JFK. How could anybody possibly miss that? Please don't play dumb.

As for George DeMohrenschildt, he answered 1,628 questions for the WC, more than double that of Jack Ruby.

Granted -- the WC steered all questions away from conspiracy. The most visible conspiracy, however -- the one that George De Mohrenschildt held back about, was about the shooting at General Walker. We know this from his 1978 manuscript, I'm a Patsy! I'm a Patsy!, where he admitted that he goaded LHO to hate General Walker (calling him General "Fokker") early in 1963. George also names Volkmar Schmidt, who also admitted he tried to get LHO to hate Walker, and to think of him as Adolf Hitler. This never came out in the WC. BUT THE CLUE TO THE JFK MURDER IS THERE.

Yet the WC didn't want to hear anything about it. They steered questions around it.

I'm not saying that the WC promoted the Truth -- because Earl Warren himself admitted that the Truth about JFK was being withheld for 75 years. So, there *was* a Conspiracy. That means that the key WCR lie was that LHO was a "Lone Nut."

Now -- the real question is, WHO WERE LHO'S ACCOMPLICES. Rather, who made LHO a Patsy? Who got LHO's confidence so well that LHO just handed over his rifle early in the morning on 11/22/1963 -- that's the question.

The WC lied about ACCOMPLICES. But it's jumping to conclusions to imagine that the accomplices were the CIA, FBI or LBJ. The *facts* point to General Walker and his gang, over and over. But the WC let George DeMohrenschildt off that hook.

Ruth Paine didn't have a clue in the world that LHO even had *friends* much less a posse. Ruth Paine was *clueless* about the JFK murder. But General Walker was getting revenge on both JFK and LHO on the same day. A resigned US General ruled the day in Dallas on 11/22/1963.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 13, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[David G. Healy]

oh Paul, infer? A cite, please... who accused on this forum Ruth Paine of murder? The only one raising that topic here is YOU, although you have toned it down a bit...

And of course the WCR played touchy-feely with a whole host of characters. George DeM for instance, how many questions did he answer re the WC?

Quick summary of WCR/RPaine questions please?

Say, David, have you read the second edition of Destiny Betrayed (2012) by James DiEugenio? Because it sounds like you haven't.

James DiEugenio is using every literary trick in the book to link Ruth Paine with a CIA that he is certain killed JFK. How could anybody possibly miss that? Please don't play dumb.

As for George DeMohrenschildt, he answered 1,628 questions for the WC, more than double that of Jack Ruby.

Granted -- the WC steered all questions away from conspiracy. The most visible conspiracy, however -- the one that George De Mohrenschildt held back about, was about the shooting at General Walker. We know this from his 1978 manuscript, I'm a Patsy! I'm a Patsy!, where he admitted that he goaded LHO to hate General Walker (calling him General "Fokker") early in 1963. George also names Volkmar Schmidt, who also admitted he tried to get LHO to hate Walker, and to think of him as Adolf Hitler. This never came out in the WC. BUT THE CLUE TO THE JFK MURDER IS THERE.

Yet the WC didn't want to hear anything about it. They steered questions around it.

I'm not saying that the WC promoted the Truth -- because Earl Warren himself admitted that the Truth about JFK was being withheld for 75 years. So, there *was* a Conspiracy. That means that the key WCR lie was that LHO was a "Lone Nut."

Now -- the real question is, WHO WERE LHO'S ACCOMPLICES. Rather, who made LHO a Patsy? Who got LHO's confidence so well that LHO just handed over his rifle early in the morning on 11/22/1963 -- that's the question.

The WC lied about ACCOMPLICES. But it's jumping to conclusions to imagine that the accomplices were the CIA, FBI or LBJ. The *facts* point to General Walker, over and over. But the WC let George DeMohrenschildt off that hook.

Ruth Paine didn't have a clue in the world that LHO even had *friends* much less a posse. Ruth Paine was *clueless* about the JFK murder. But General Walker was getting revenge on both JFK and LHO on the same day. A resigned US General ruled the day in Dallas on 11/22/1963.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Actually Paul, that's the only book I own of Jim's. And it's a great read... And for the life of me, I simply don't see where he or anyone accused Ruth Paine of murder. In that book, or here, on this forum.

So 5,000+ questions asked of the Christian/Quaker lady, Ruth Paine? A naive do-gooder extending a hand to a young Russian mother, perhaps so she can practice her Russian language skills?

I gotta tell ya, 5000+ questions will get you a ton of mileage in an investigation and/or court proceeding, a megaton of mileage with an attorney worth his/her salt... I suspect Ruth is no longer "clueless?"

What is truly mind-boggling concerning the entire 1963-64 WC proceedings, is the sheer incompetence of the commission, staff, and its attorney's...

After merely 2000 questions, I suspect I could find something wrong with a (to use a well-used phrase) *ham sandwich,* maybe even expose one.

Edited November 13, 2015 by David G. Healy

[Paul Trejo]

Actually Paul, that's the only book I own of Jim's. And it's a great read... And for the life of me, I simply don't see where he or anyone accused Ruth Paine of murder. In that book, or here, on this forum.

So 5,000+ questions asked of the Christian/Quaker lady, Ruth Paine? A naive do-gooder extending a hand to a young Russian mother, perhaps so she can practice her Russian language skills?

I gotta tell ya, 5000+ questions will get you a ton of mileage in an investigation and/or court proceeding, a megaton of mileage with an attorney worth his/her salt... I suspect Ruth is no longer "clueless?"

What is truly mind-boggling concerning the entire 1963-64 WC proceedings, is the sheer incompetence of the commission, staff, and its attorney's...

After merely 2000 questions, I suspect I could find something wrong with a (to use a well-used phrase) *ham sandwich,* maybe even expose one.

So, let's see, David, you say you actually read the second edition of Destiny Betrayed (2012) by James DiEugenio, and you came away believing that Ruth Paine had NOTHING to do with the JFK murder? REALLY?

I think you're putting us all on.

As for the 1963-64 WC proceedings -- they were Extremely Competent in their main goal -- to push the "Lone Nut" Oswald -- despite all the evidence against it. They did this for National Security, they said, and I have no reason to doubt them, and every reason to believe them.

That is, if the USA found out who REALLY killed JFK in 1963-1964, there would have been riots in the streets during the Cold War -- a recipe for National Disaster.

The same was true in 1968 during the Jim Garrison trials.

The same was true in 1979 for the HSCA trials.

The WC was Extremely Competent, David -- and they did their job to maintain National Security. One day the USA will see that.

George De Mohrenschildt knew far more about the Walker shooting than he ever told -- but the WC deliberately steered clear of that topic.

That way they could push their "Lone Nut" theory. The reason the WC concentrated so much on Marina Oswald and Ruth Paine, is precisely because they knew NOTHING about the political connections of LHO. That worked perfectly according to the WC plan.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 13, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[David G. Healy]

Actually Paul, that's the only book I own of Jim's. And it's a great read... And for the life of me, I simply don't see where he or anyone accused Ruth Paine of murder. In that book, or here, on this forum.

So 5,000+ questions asked of the Christian/Quaker lady, Ruth Paine? A naive do-gooder extending a hand to a young Russian mother, perhaps so she can practice her Russian language skills?

I gotta tell ya, 5000+ questions will get you a ton of mileage in an investigation and/or court proceeding, a megaton of mileage with an attorney worth his/her salt... I suspect Ruth is no longer "clueless?"

What is truly mind-boggling concerning the entire 1963-64 WC proceedings, is the sheer incompetence of the commission, staff, and its attorney's...

After merely 2000 questions, I suspect I could find something wrong with a (to use a well-used phrase) *ham sandwich,* maybe even expose one.

So, let's see, David, you say you actually read the second edition of Destiny Betrayed (2012) by James DiEugenio, and you came away believing that Ruth Paine had NOTHING to do with the JFK murder? REALLY?

I think you're putting us all on.

As for the 1963-64 WC proceedings -- they were Extremely Competent in their main goal -- to push the "Lone Nut" Oswald -- despite all the evidence against it. They did this for National Security, they said, and I have no reason to doubt them, and every reason to believe them.

That is, if the USA found out who REALLY killed JFK in 1963-1964, there would have been riots in the streets during the Cold War -- a recipe for National Disaster.

The same was true in 1968 during the Jim Garrison trials.

The same was true in 1979 for the HSCA trials.

The WC was Extremely Competent, David -- and they did their job to maintain National Security. One day the USA will see that.

George De Mohrenschildt knew far more about the Walker shooting than he ever told -- but the WC deliberately steered clear of that topic.

That way they could push their "Lone Nut" theory. The reason the WC concentrated so much on Marina Oswald and Ruth Paine, is precisely because they knew NOTHING about the political connections of LHO. That worked perfectly according to the WC plan.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

you still haven't posted that cite, Paul. Is it because you don't have it?

What you think about what I've read and when, is irrelevant Paul. Nor do I care what you've read. And pssssst, we're on to the lone nut nonsense and have been since the SBT. Incompetence reigns supreme back to the 60's...

Why not just simply write that book for GAWD sakes and spare us?

[Paul Trejo]

you still haven't posted that cite, Paul. Is it because you don't have it?

What you think about what I've read and when, is irrelevant Paul. Nor do I care what you've read. And pssssst, we're on to the lone nut nonsense and have been since the SBT. Incompetence reigns supreme back to the 60's...

Why not just simply write that book for GAWD sakes and spare us?

Why does it bug you, David? If you don't like this thread, then just go away.

I'm doing what I said I would do -- remain open for SOLID EVIDENCE against Ruth Paine to substantiate the accusations that James DiEugenio and countless other CIA-did-it CTers have been saying for years, namely:

(1) Ruth Paine set-up LHO as the shooter at General Walker

(2) Ruth Paine set-up LHO with the BYP

(3) Ruth Paine set-up LHO with a job at the TSBD

(4) Ruth Paine's mother-in-law had a friend who knew Allen Dulles, so Ruth must be a CIA agent.

Nobody has yet posted better evidence than James DiEugenio, and his evidence is as flimsy as a dandelion.

I'm still waiting for SOLID EVIDENCE. I'm also waiting for James DiEugenio's Key Source, namely, attorney Carol Hewett, in her PROBE articles from the 1990's. James swears by her.

Once I get my copy of the PROBE back-issues, I'll feel off the layers of that onion, layer by layer. We'll have a really GOOD look -- right here on this thread.

You're welcome to stay-tuned -- or just go away.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 13, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Brancato]

Solid Evidence - good one.

David - just go away.