Tom Hume Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Sandy said: "Also, I want to personally thank Robert Prudhomme for bringing to my/our attention that Baker was running (roughly) parallel to the TSBD, not toward the stairway. This is a big deal imo." I'll second that. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Hastings Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 +1 I agree with Robert P and Sandy's conclusions above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Panorama. Looking at Chris' panoramic view (which for some reason doesn't display in the quotation box above) made me realize something odd... officer Baker didn't just run straight from his motorcycle and then past the entrance of the TSBD. He had to have made a ~45 to 90 degree right turn somewhere. Look at this birds-eye view: Somehow officer Baker got from Elm Street over to the red road directly in front of the TSBD, somewhere to the left of its entrance, before making a right turn or veering to the right so that he was running roughly parallel with the front of the building. He then ran right past the entrance. (After that, we do not know.) This surprises me because, given how fast he was running, I would have thought he'd take a direct path, straight to his intended destination. It seems that staying on Elm Street would have been a direct path to the general area he was headed. Does anybody know how Baker got to the red road from Elm Street? It seems that he would have had to run through the grove of trees in front of the building. Is there a fence there? Once on the red road, he didn't run straight along the road. He ran at somewhat of an angle so that he'd end up at the corner of the intersection, perhaps on the sidewalk -- assuming he didn't change course after passing the TSBD entrance. Any thoughts? Edited December 17, 2015 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 If you look just above the open door of the '62 Chev Impala at the left of Chris's still, I believe you can see Baker's motorcycle parked next to the curb. Baker would have ridden to this point and parked his motorcycle there as this was the first point, close to the TSBD, he could get next to a curb without going through a crowd of onlookers. From this point, Baker ran across the concrete island between Elm St. and the Elm St. extension, and partly crossed the Elm St. extension. As there were cars parked along the north side of the extension, he likely turned toward Houston St. while still out in the extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 To get to where Baker was seemingly headed, it seems to me that a more straightforward path to take was to go east the 40 ft or so and cross the Elm Extension at the crosswalk. Instead he chose to cross the concrete barrier and jump a 3 ft. fence (if it was there at the time). Maybe he was trying to avoid the crowd, but that doesn't seem likely given that there was plenty of room on Elm Street. It seems like he was initially headed for the TSBD entrance, but veered to the right and went somewhere else instead. To the intersection to talk to another officer? To the Dal-Tex building? What else is there? Nothing, it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Yes, there was a more direct path but, there were onlookers in his way all around the corner, blocking the crosswalk. From all indications, there was no fence blocking the concrete island at that time. Baker parked roughly at the location of the traffic signal pole, on the concrete island, and as it was a pedestrian area joining Elm St. and the extension, it would not make sense to have it fenced. Yes, it's a shame Darnell panned away to the left at the critical moment. Another second or two of Baker's run, and we would not be discussing when he went up the steps. Edited December 17, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 If you look closely, Baker crosses just behind the signal light post on his way toward the TSBD curb/front steps. His path appears to be somewhere close to the red line I have drawn in. If you go to this link, I have stabilized the Darnell footage (labeled Truly-Baker gif) to give you a better look at Baker crossing just behind the signal light. https://spideroak.com/browse/share/JFKFILES/JFKVIDEOS password: assassination chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Yes, there was a more direct pat but, there were onlookers in his way all around the corner, blocking the crosswalk. From all indications, there was no fence blocking the concrete island at that time. Baker parked roughly at the location of the traffic signal pole, on the concrete island, and as it was a pedestrian area joining Elm t. and the extension, it would not make sense to have it fenced. Yes, it's a shame Darnell panned away to the left at the critical moment. Another second or two of Baker's run, and we would not be discussing when he went up the steps. You're right... I made a mistake. The motorcycle was parked near the traffic light, as you said. Here is what Baker saw when he got off his bike (other than the GoogleCam distortion): He could have gone straight across had he wanted to, but for whatever reason (maybe too many spectators) he actually went the opposite direction, but not by a long ways as far as we can tell. I'd say about 25 feet. Then he started to cross the street as he turned to the right. He passed just about where the guy on the Elm extension is in the photo above. And then passed the front entrance of the TSBD. I have a theory as to what Baker was up to. Maybe when he heard the shots, the first thought that entered his mind was "snipers on the TSBD roof." So he looked up at the roof as he was running west, and then decided to check the roof from the east side of the building. That would explain his going both directions but not to the entrance right away. Edited December 17, 2015 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Lloyd Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 A couple of thoughts on that: 1. Was he going to talk with a cop that was standing somewhere near the corner of the building before entering (which I think RP may have mentioned previously)? 2. Had he seen the emergency escape stairs at the side of the building on Houston as he rode toward the building and was checking those first since he may have thought that, if someone was shooting from the roof, they may have tried to escape from the building that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) If you look closely, Baker crosses just behind the signal light post on his way toward the TSBD curb/front steps. His path appears to be somewhere close to the red line I have drawn in. If you go to this link, I have stabilized the Darnell footage (labeled Truly-Baker gif) to give you a better look at Baker crossing just behind the signal light. https://spideroak.com/browse/share/JFKFILES/JFKVIDEOS password: assassination chris Chris, You are like Radar O'Reilly on M*A*S*H. You seem to post every video or still we need right before we need it! You did an awesome stabilization job on this latest video.. Anyway... so much for my "roof sniper" theory. What I don't get is, in this video, Baker appears to be going pretty close to a straight line across the street, toward the stairway handrail on our left. Yet in the video you posted earlier he seemed to be much further west as he enters the frame of the video. Appearances can be deceiving, as they say. In this latest video I do believe I detect a sudden turn to the right. Just after Baker passes behind the tall guy in the road (is that Roy Truly?), he appears to do a quick turn to our right. And he must have, given that the earlier video showed that he hadn't even reached the sidewalk by the time he was in front of the middle handrail. Anyway, it now appears that Baker did run toward the stairway, but changed his mind right after passing behind the tall guy. I stand by my earlier analysis that showed Baker to be about 16 feet from the stairway when he was right in front of the middle handrail. In that case I had some frames of reference to work with (the running girl, the sidewalk, shadows rising up the curb). I still contend that Baker was not headed toward the stairway at that time. Though, for all I know, he could have abruptly changed direction again after running off the frame of the (first) video. Edited December 17, 2015 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Lloyd Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) If you look closely, Baker crosses just behind the signal light post on his way toward the TSBD curb/front steps. His path appears to be somewhere close to the red line I have drawn in. If you go to this link, I have stabilized the Darnell footage (labeled Truly-Baker gif) to give you a better look at Baker crossing just behind the signal light. https://spideroak.com/browse/share/JFKFILES/JFKVIDEOS password: assassination chris Superb GIF Chris, thanks. Edited December 17, 2015 by Ian Lloyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Lloyd Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Looking at that nice clear GIF that Chris has supplied, it does look like I was incorrect regarding Baker about to step up the kerb, though IMO, he probably did step up the kerb with his next step. Who's the cop seen in the background running down the extension towards the Grassy knoll? Does Baker momentarily turn his head to look down that way, possibly caught the movement in the corner of his eye and then, seeing it's a cop, carried on? Edited December 17, 2015 by Ian Lloyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) [deleted] Edited December 17, 2015 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Lloyd Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Can frame captures as clear as the GIF be done of the last few frames? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Lloyd Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Deleted Edited December 17, 2015 by Ian Lloyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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