Did the Dallas Radical Right kill JFK?

[Jason Ward]

1 hour ago, George Sawtelle said:

Jason

The killers of Kennedy wanted to humiliate him and his family (the family of mom and dad and his brothers and sisters, not his family with Jackie). They wanted to shoot him down like a dog in the street. They hated Kennedy with a passion for what he had done to them. That little Kennedy he thought he was a god. A poison pill wouldn't do.

They had everything planned to the last detail but they couldn't control everything.

They couldn't keep Zapruder from filming.

They didn't plan on a missed shot that caused the injury to Tague.

Those two unforeseen events caused the CIA to scamble to save their lone gunman theory. They invented the SBT which of course is ridiculous. But they were able to plant enough plausible deniability which still stands today.

Everyone's entitled to speculation, George.

I invite you to post some primary sources indicating anyone wanted 1. to humiliate Kennedy like a dog; 2. hated Kennedy with a passion for what he had done to them; 3. had everything planned to the last detail; 4. did not anticipate 100+ photographers in a public crowd in a large US American city; 5. invented the SBT or Lone Gunman theory.

It's all make-believe; it's a novel.

 

Jason

[Paul Trejo]

12 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Paul - Did you say here that the FBI record suggests that Che pulled Castro into Communism?

Paul B.,

I did not say the FBI records suggested that.  There is a recent PBS production (IIRC) on the Cuban Revolution which suggested that.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

 

[Jason Ward]

22 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

 

   It was Che Guevara that pulled the Cuban Revolution to the Radical Left, and Fidel Castro simply didn't have enough help.  

 

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

 

Paul,

In a thread about the Radical Right, I feel an interesting perspective is the Radical Left.   

Both extreme ends of the political spectrum blame one another for JFK, while the mainstream is busy blaming a Lone Nut, the right wing exile Cubans, and/or the Mafia.

Jason

 

The Far Left says:

 

The Far Right says:

&

 

 

[Paul Trejo]

4 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

If, as has been often suggested, that there was a plan to blame the hit on a Communist Conspiracy, then the most likely candidates for a second or alternate set of shooters, would be Cubans... 

Michael, 

Lee Harvey Oswald was portrayed as being in bed with the Communist Conspiracy precisely in Cuba.  That agrees with your perception.  The USA in 1963 was generally obsessed with Cuba.   The CIA certainly was.  The FBI was as well, because so many thousands of Cubans were now ashore in Florida and Louisiana (where Catholics were welcome in the South).

The idea that the shooters were Commie Cubans, would have been approved by the Radical Right.

The idea that the shooters were FPCC officers would have been approved by the Radical Right.

The idea that the shooters were in the Mafia, would have been approved by the Radical Right.

The idea that the shooters were working for the USSR would have been approved by the Radical Right.

The idea that the shooters were working for LBJ would have been approved by the Radical Right.

Even the idea that the shooters were CIA agents, would have been approved by the Radical Right.

The only idea that wasn't approved by the Radical Right, was that the Radical Right did it.

For the past 54 years, the Radical Right in the USA has been winning these JFK CT battles.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

 

[Paul Brancato]

Jason - I don't buy the moral equivalence argument. Notice that the 'left' in the guise of the Daily Worker names prominent rightists whose hatred and perfidy are well known, whether or not they were part of the assassination. There is nothing in the Daily Worker article you posted that is hateful. Hate is a special province of the far right. And the far right has trouble even naming someone hateful or dangerous to Democracy on the far left. The best they were ever able to do was to smear them by association with the Soviet Union and Stalin. My parents were in CPUSA. There was no shame in it from my point of view, other than a reticence to see the true Stalin, which eventually they did, led by the Jews in CPUSA. It's absolutely laughable that you or anyone sees some tit for tat thinking here. The individuals named in the Worker article were shameful hate mongers, and according to Trejo the Worker was correct. Ironic ain't it? 

Edited October 9, 2017 by Paul Brancato

[George Sawtelle]

Jason

Your true colors are coming out. I guess you believe the SBT and the lone gunman theory are viable alternatives since you apparently believe they are not inventions.

If you planned an operation, any operation, wouldn't you plan it down to the last detail. This goes without saying. No documentation is needed.

Filming Kennedy's limo  from the time it made the turn onto Elm from Houston is not the same as taking photos of the presidential limo.

Kennedy humiliated Dulles first by not backing him at the Bay of Pigs then dismissing him as CIA director. He returned the favor in Dealey Plaza.

By the way, have you solved the Kennedy murder yet. That's what I thought. What good are all the documents you've posted when you still keep going around in circles.

 

[Jason Ward]

2 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Jason - I don't buy the moral equivalence argument. Notice that the 'left' in the guise of the Daily Worker names prominent rightists whose hatred and perfidy are well known, whether or not they were part of the assassination. There is nothing in the Daily Worker article you posted that is hateful. Hate is a special province of the far right. And the far right has trouble even naming someone hateful or dangerous to Democracy on the far left. The best they were ever able to do was to smear them by association with the Soviet Union and Stalin. My parents were in CPUSA. There was no shame in it from my point of view, other than a reticence to see the true Stalin, which eventually they did, led by the Jews in CPUSA. It's absolutely laughable that you or anyone sees some tit for tat thinking here. The individuals named in the Worker article were shameful hate mongers, and according to Trejo the Worker was correct. Ironic ain't it? 

Paul, I'm not making an argument for moral equivalence.

I'm just presenting evidence of points of view in the post you reference.  Make of what you will.  I think it's important to make CTers answer the evidence.   For example, I do take seriously much of what Paul Trejo says and consider him something of a voice of reason in the face of crowd-mentality; nevertheless I post evidence like this that challenges his PoV from time to time.......

..... So, Paul T, if Walker and the Dallas far Right are in bed together and behind the assassination, what's your thinking on the December 1963 letter from General Walker to DPD chief Curry - evidenced by the National Zeitung article, envelope, and apparent notes from Walker that I attach below?  Seems like Curry could be a bit more cooperative with Walker if they're on the same team, right?

 

Here's a couple more dichotomies:

1. THE FAR RIGHT

Walker is so intent on his own assassination theory that he mails a [at the time] obscure German newspaper article to Jesse Curry and then is pissed off that Curry doesn't respond.  {Odd that Walker knows about this article and has it so quickly after it is published, complete with English translation no less....hmmmm.....}

 

2.  THE FAR LEFT

...and here's the CPUSA version of the assassination, as revealed by a paid FBI informant reporting on a late November 1963 CPUSA meeting:

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Jason Ward]

19 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

....

 This goes without saying. No documentation is needed.

...

 

 

Hi George,

This is the heart of our disagreement.

You believe there exists aspect of the murder that go without saying and require no documentation.

I do not.

...

 

There is an entire religion built on an ever-taller house of cards in the assassination community - too many "truths" that "go without saying" and "require no documentation."  This excuse gets invoked anytime evidence is missing and is the #1 reason why no one outside of the CT community takes the CT community seriously.

 

 

Jason

[Jason Ward]

On 9/7/2017 at 12:04 PM, Paul Trejo said:

I perceive a new interest in the CT that the Radical Right in Dallas was behind the JFK assassination.   This would include such WC witnesses as General Walker, Robert Allen Surrey, Revilo P. Oliver, Bernard Weisman, and possibly included Dallas officials, Will Fritz, BIll Decker, Jesse Curry, Buddy Walthers, Harry Holmes, James Hosty, Forrest Sorrels,  Earle Cabell and others in their company. 

Such a theory would attempt to harmonize with Jim Garrison and Joan Mellen's identification of a dozen people in New Orleans, including Guy Banister, David Ferrie, Clay Shaw, Jack S. Martin, Fred Crisman and Tommy Beckham.  Also implied are Rightist elements in the South including Joseph Milteer, Billy James Hargis, Ed Butler, Carlos Bringuier and Kent Courtney.  

It would also include people who have already confessed, such as Frank Sturgis, Howard Hunt, David Morales, Roscoe White, Loran Hall, Gerry Patrick Hemming and Lee Harvey Oswald.  As a starting point, the recent book by Dr. Jeffrey Caufield, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: the Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015) is presented.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

 

Paul,

 

It's been there for 53 years - if you are right.   The origination of the Radical Right CT has a longer history than most of us realize, but perhaps we should fairly place its genesis on Warren Commission lawyer Albert Jenner?

Not only is Carlos Bringuier magically walking down Canal Street just in time to fight Oswald and get publicity for Oswald's commie persona; Bringuier's also in Oklahoma commiserating with the Radical Right...and when Bringuier is in New Orleans he's with Bannister/Walker/Perez segregationist pal Kent Courtney:

 

Warren Commission Volume 15. p 720

---the above is from General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy by Jeffrey Caufield, M.D.; p. 211.

.

. 

 

This is where Warren Commission attorney Jenner nails General Walker & Revilo Oliver as perjurers.  

It is 100% certain that Jenner in 1964 Warren Commission witness examination is after precisely the same Radical Right CT that Paul Trejo pursues today.  

Jenner's evidence is that Oliver and Walker can't get their story straight as to how they know Oswald shot at Walker before this information was made public.  

...

...

 

[Jason Ward]

 

A little more radical right related evidence to chew on...

...this is an internal CIA memo describing a National Enquirer article purporting to reveal that RFK prevented Oswald and Ruby from arrest in the April 1963 Walker shooting - because they worked for the CIA.

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Jason Ward]

If Paul Trejo is right, the assassination has strong motivations in the racial climate of the era;

Paul T - isn't there something somewhere about Garrison as a member of the Citizens Council?

Jason

 

[Michael Clark]

3 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

If Paul Trejo is right, the assassination has strong motivations in the racial climate of the era;

 

Jason

 

 

That's funny. Your giving Trejo credit for ferreting-out that little tid-bit.... lol!

[Paul Trejo]

7 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

If Paul Trejo is right, the assassination has strong motivations in the racial climate of the era;

Paul T - isn't there something somewhere about Garrison as a member of the Citizens Council?

Jason

Jason,

Thanks for your documentary focus on the USA in 1963, instead of the more common focus of succeeding years

Also, thanks for your focus on the South as the specific killing ground of JFK.

The following is my opinion.

The Southern paranoia of a Communist invasion from Cuba in 1963 had spread Nationwide in a group known as the Minutemen.  Harry Dean was a member of the Minutemen and can tell us a lot about it.

The Radical Right in the South particularly had carefully combined the paranoia about Cuban Communism with fears about racial integration of public schools.  Local slogans included "Race mixing is Communist!" And, "Impeach Earl Warren!"

This became inflamed in the South after JFK's June 11th speech.

The political climate in Dallas had reached a critical mass.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Jason Ward]

6 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

That's funny. Your giving Trejo credit for ferreting-out that little tid-bit.... lol!

Hi Michael,

Are there many around invoking racial tension as a motivation for JFK's killers?  Isn't Vietnam or Cuba far more common?  

I'm not giving credit to Paul Trejo for pioneering racist conservatives as likely conspirators.   I'm recognizing that Trejo is the most consistent voice here denying a government (CIA) centric role in killing Kennedy and instead naming the radical right.   In my view there's a little bit too much concern around here for giving credit or deciding who was first in this or that theory - and not enough concern around here with actually doing research or analyzing the raw data.

There's no shortage of people who think answers are going to come from CIA headquarters in Langley. Paul Trejo is one of the few people who think that answers may come from conservatives in Dallas like Robert Morris, or conservatives in the south like Joseph Milteer, or even in the records of conservative organizations like the Minutemen and KKK anywhere in the country.

Regards, Jason

 

[George Sawtelle]

Jason

You won't solve the case relying on testimony from the Warren Report or FBI documents.