Did the Dallas Radical Right kill JFK?

[Jason Ward]

17 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

Jason

You won't solve the case relying on testimony from the Warren Report or FBI documents.

 

 

Where do you want me to look?

[Paul Brancato]

11 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi Michael,

Are there many around invoking racial tension as a motivation for JFK's killers?  Isn't Vietnam or Cuba far more common?  

I'm not giving credit to Paul Trejo for pioneering racist conservatives as likely conspirators.   I'm recognizing that Trejo is the most consistent voice here denying a government (CIA) centric role in killing Kennedy and instead naming the radical right.   In my view there's a little bit too much concern around here for giving credit or deciding who was first in this or that theory - and not enough concern around here with actually doing research or analyzing the raw data.

There's no shortage of people who think answers are going to come from CIA headquarters in Langley. Paul Trejo is one of the few people who think that answers may come from conservatives in Dallas like Robert Morris, or conservatives in the south like Joseph Milteer, or even in the records of conservative organizations like the Minutemen and KKK anywhere in the country.

Regards, Jason

 

Jason - are you able to look at records of the Minutemen? Or Robert Morris? 

I remember all too well (even though I was 16 at the time) hearing about the Minutemen for the first time within the first week after Nov.22. However I am not so quick to dismiss government involvement. You and Paul seem to think that exploring CIA files has yielded no results. You posted some info on Bringuier a few posts ago and his various connections. I am sure you know that he had a CIA connections as well, and that both CIA and FBI had operations to discredit FPCC. It would seem obvious that Bringuier and Oswald were part of those operations, which included Bannister as well. The CIA man most likely to have been the connector to Bringuier is Joannides, whose files are still hidden despite a decade of lawsuits trying to get access to his still hidden files. Joannides was the very same agent put in charge of CIA liaison with the HSCA, and his true history was unknown to HSCA at the time. What can you dig up about him?

Despite your previous explanations as to why an ultra right conspiracy (why not use the actual term that historians have used rather than Radical right) has been kept hidden all these years - that Hoover was afraid of disclosures that would have ruined his career - I continue to believe that it makes no sense that a small group of such men could pull off the crime of the century and then enjoy the fruits of their labors without exposure. How many times I've heard it said by Trejo and many others that the explanation rests on the idea that the coverup and crime were two different unconnected groups. Again, logic tells me there was considerable overlap. As for Hoover, the same logic - fear of exposure - could apply to explain his participation in a coverup if the actors were mafia, or CIA, or US military. His participation proves nothing as to who he was protecting. 

We have a coverup that is now 54 years old, presumably to protect a small group of racist ultra rightists conspirators, a coverup managed by government agencies, elected and unelected, a compliant media. This makes no sense on its face.

the other thing you have said many times Jason is that you believe that people with too much to lose would not conceive of a crime this dangerous. Well, history has shown us that 'they' got away with it because of the enormous amount of help in covering up the crime and the criminals. Are you really willing to dismiss William Harvey and ZRRIFLE? Are you really willing to ignore the only group that demonstrably benefitted from the crime - those that wanted their war and the continuation of policies that enriched them - because these actors had too much to lose? Actors with just as much hatred for JFK and what he represented, actors often aligned with the ultra right racists in their beliefs, actors with so much to gain, and so much more power to control all aspects of the event? 

[Mathias Baumann]

1 hour ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi Michael,

Are there many around invoking racial tension as a motivation for JFK's killers?  Isn't Vietnam or Cuba far more common?  

I'm not giving credit to Paul Trejo for pioneering racist conservatives as likely conspirators.   I'm recognizing that Trejo is the most consistent voice here denying a government (CIA) centric role in killing Kennedy and instead naming the radical right.   In my view there's a little bit too much concern around here for giving credit or deciding who was first in this or that theory - and not enough concern around here with actually doing research or analyzing the raw data.

There's no shortage of people who think answers are going to come from CIA headquarters in Langley. Paul Trejo is one of the few people who think that answers may come from conservatives in Dallas like Robert Morris, or conservatives in the south like Joseph Milteer, or even in the records of conservative organizations like the Minutemen and KKK anywhere in the country.

Regards, Jason

 

Hello Jason,

it's my firm belief that David Sanchez Morales was involved in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. I think Paul Trejo believes the same. But I don't understand how he links him to racists like General Walker.

Morales had been a victim of racism himself as a boy (see "The Last Investigation"). Why would he work for people who despised him? It doesn't make sense in my opinion. On the other hand we know that Morales and Johnny Roselli worked together in Operation Mongoose. Roselli was also friends with Bill Harvey, who hated the Kennedys with a passion.  In the 1970s Roselli was killed when he started talking about the assassination.

In contrast to the southern racists organized crime really DID Profit from the deaths of John and Robert Kennedy, because Lyndon Johnson called off the war on crime when he came to office.

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by Mathias Baumann

[Paul Brancato]

39 minutes ago, Mathias Baumann said:

Hello Jason,

it's my firm belief that David Sanchez Morales was involved in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. I think Paul Trejo believes the same. But I don't understand how he links him to racists like General Walker.

Morales had been a victim of racism himself as a boy (see "The Last Investigation"). Why would he work for people who despised him? It doesn't make sense in my opinion. On the other hand we know that Morales and Johnny Roselli worked together in Operation Mongoose. Roselli was also friends with Bill Harvey, who hated the Kennedys with a passion.  In the 1970s Roselli was killed when he started talking about the assassination.

In contrast to the southern racists organized crime really DID Profit from the deaths of John and Robert Kennedy, because Lyndon Johnson called off the war on crime when he came to office.

 

Matthias - I agree with your point about Mafia, but would add that according to Peter Dale Scott there is a nexus between CIA Mafia and international drug trade. Vietnam ntersects this. The Mafia's international drug trade benefitted from the US military presence in the Vietnam area, as they do now from our presence in Afghanistan. There are such huge sums of money involved. JFK's decision to leave Vietnam was anathema.

[Mathias Baumann]

14 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Matthias - I agree with your point about Mafia, but would add that according to Peter Dale Scott there is a nexus between CIA Mafia and international drug trade. Vietnam ntersects this. The Mafia's international drug trade benefitted from the US military presence in the Vietnam area, as they do now from our presence in Afghanistan. There are such huge sums of money involved. JFK's decision to leave Vietnam was anathema.

Paul,

yes, certainly there's a great deal of overlap between organized crime and the world of intelligence. However I've come to the conclusion that trying to pinpoint a certain group is a futile endeavour. What does it mean when we say "the" CIA or "the" Mafia killed JFK? Both are vast organization, but Kennedy was killed by individual people.

It's my belief that we should not be looking for a certain group but for a common motive - and if you look at the major players in this case that seems to be the anti-Castro struggle. Oswald, Ruby, Banister, Ferrie, Morales, David Attlee Phillips, Gilberto Lopez and many more are in one way or another connected to Cuba and/or the Bay of Pigs Invasion.

[Paul Brancato]

1 hour ago, Mathias Baumann said:

Paul,

yes, certainly there's a great deal of overlap between organized crime and the world of intelligence. However I've come to the conclusion that trying to pinpoint a certain group is a futile endeavour. What does it mean when we say "the" CIA or "the" Mafia killed JFK? Both are vast organization, but Kennedy was killed by individual people.

It's my belief that we should not be looking for a certain group but for a common motive - and if you look at the major players in this case that seems to be the anti-Castro struggle. Oswald, Ruby, Banister, Ferrie, Morales, David Attlee Phillips, Gilberto Lopez and many more are in one way or another connected to Cuba and/or the Bay of Pigs Invasion.

I agree with your point about looking at individuals not organizations. I've never to my knowledge or memory said that CIA or any other organization was responsible.

I would not lump Oswald into the anti Castro group seemingly on equal footing with the others, unless you think he was part of the plot, or was a shooter. 

If Castro and Cuba was first and foremost in the minds of the plotters, I guess you could say they failed. Trejo believes that for various reasons the cover up actors thwarted the aims of the totally separate plotters. My own view is that the proof is in the pudding - If the plotters got what they wanted then it wasn't the anti Castro crowd that did it. 

 

[George Sawtelle]

Jason

Where do you want me to look?

Normally I wouldn't instruct anyone on what to do, what research to do, what to study, etc., but you asked so here it is. 

It seems you have some resources. With that in mind I suggest you look into the following ...

1) Travel, appointments, phone records,  and correspondance of Allen Dulles and D. Eisenhower starting in June 1963 and ending Nov 22, 1963

2) Travel and phone record of Bill Harvey for the same period

3) Phone record of David Atlee Phillips for the same period

4) Find out if Dulles met with David Atlee Phillips when Phillips visited Wash DC in summer of 1963

Any info would be very helpfull. Good luck

 

 

[Roger DeLaria]

During this 1960s time period, the radical right movement most certainly had a lot in common with protestant fundamentalism, and their common battle against communist atheism. I think the most outward symbols of this are persons like Billy James hargis, Gerald L.K. Smith, Kent & Phoebe Courtney, others. Cerainly less visible person could be John Foster & Allen Dulles, many of the Georgetown set with their wasp background. JFK being Catholic was a huge thing. All these groups/individuals whether east coast protestant or deep south/southwest protestant all had a common thought that liberals, catholics, democrats, etc. were all "communist", and it was like a dominoe theory.

[Paul Trejo]

3 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

Jason

You won't solve the case relying on testimony from the Warren Report or FBI documents.

George,

Actually, the truth is right there in the Warren Report and FBI documents -- but one must read with careful discernment.   The SBT is make-believe, but the rest of the WC testimony is as good as GOLD.

In 1971, one of the former assistants to Allen Dulles, whose name was Jacques Zwart, published a book entitled, Invitation to hairsplitting. A hypercritical investigation into the true function of the Warren Commission and the true nature of the Warren Report (1971).

Zwart begins his book with a story.  He and Allen Dulles were having coffee, and the subject of the Warren Report came up.  Allen Dulles then told Zwart words to this effect: 'The full story of the JFK assassination is in the Warren Report -- but one must become an expert at hair-splitting."

Of course Allen Dulles knew that the Warren Report had conveyed a false conclusion.  So did Earl Warren.  So did J. Edgar Hoover.  So did LBJ.   So did a lot of people (although not everybody on the Warren Commission knew the full truth -- because even some of these could not see the forest for the trees).

Earl Warren was kind enough to convey the REASON why they could not tell us the whole Truth -- it was a matter of National Security.  By saying this to us, he told us bluntly that the Warren Report had provided a false conclusion.

Yet the full 26 volumes of the Warren Commission hearing and exhibits are much larger than the single-volume Warren Report.  All the truth is there -- but we must become experts at hair-splitting.

What Jason Ward is finding is that there are many FBI documents out there which have not yet been perused, because so many people in the CT community are obsessed with some version of a CIA-did-it CT.   They keep looking in the wrong places, and requesting the wrong FBI documents.

We have barely scratched the surface of the Walker-did-it CT, and we have spent more than a half-century on the CIA-did-it CT.

The full truth of the JFK assassination is in the Warren Commission volumes -- if one carefully focuses on the WC witnesses from the Radical Right.

I suppose it does take some political savvy to distinguish the shades of Right wing -- become some Right wingers are entirely innocent of the JFK murder.  But when we focus intently on the Radical Right -- the ones who published t he WANTED FOR TREASON: JFK handbill, for example, we have them cornered.  The Truth is there.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

5 minutes ago, Roger DeLaria said:

During this 1960s time period, the radical right movement most certainly had a lot in common with protestant fundamentalism, and their common battle against communist atheism. I think the most outward symbols of this are persons like Billy James hargis, Gerald L.K. Smith, Kent & Phoebe Courtney, others. Cerainly less visible person could be John Foster & Allen Dulles, many of the Georgetown set with their wasp background. JFK being Catholic was a huge thing. All these groups/individuals whether east coast protestant or deep south/southwest protestant all had a common thought that liberals, catholics, democrats, etc. were all "communist", and it was like a dominoe theory.

Roger,

The following is my opinion.

Granting all that you say here -- there are SHADES of the Rightwing, and we should focus on the Radical Right -- the only SHADE that openly advocated violence, assassination and overthrow of the Government.

There are Rightists among WASPs and Catholics -- yet these are typically very peaceful and law abiding people -- even those who own guns and rifles.

Yet I'm talking about violent racists who exploit the divisions in our society, because of their unbridled ambition for power at any cost.  They are true criminals.

Billy James Hargis, however, was not just a WASP, he was also an outspoken Racial Segregationist.  This is what makes him interesting in the JFK assassination case. 

Also, Hargis was a close, personal friend of General Walker, and he knew Carlos Bringuier quite well. 

It is an interesting  twist, Billy James Hargis (a self-made millionaire from Bible preaching) published an LP phonograph record in the mid-60's, in which he pretended to interview Lee Harvey Oswald.  In this LP, Hargis had obtained the rights to the radio interview of Oswald by Bill Stuckey.  Then, in a recording studio, Hargis dubbed in his own voice over Bill Stuckey's voice, and filled in the questions -- and this gave the illusion that Billy James Hargis interviewed Lee Harvey Oswald.

That's getting too close for my comfort.  Yet I have researched the segregationist Reverend Billy James Hargis.  I find him to be a Fake Conservative, because after he founded a college and a child-care center in the South, he was later sued for sexual molestation of both his college students and his child-care center kids.

He lived a VERY SECRET LIFE.   Just like General Walker.  When people are violent and SECRET -- there is real danger -- I'm convinced.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Roger DeLaria]

17 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Roger,

The following is my opinion.

Granting all that you say here -- there are SHADES of the Rightwing, and we should focus on the Radical Right -- the only SHADE that openly advocated violence, assassination and overthrow of the Government.

There are Rightists among WASPs and Catholics -- yet these are typically very peaceful and law abiding people -- even those who own guns and rifles.

Yet I'm talking about violent racists who exploit the divisions in our society, because of their unbridled ambition for power at any cost.  They are true criminals.

Billy James Hargis, however, was not just a WASP, he was also an outspoken Racial Segregationist.  This is what makes him interesting in the JFK assassination case. 

Also, Hargis was a close, personal friend of General Walker, and he knew Carlos Bringuier quite well. 

It is an interesting  twist, Billy James Hargis (a self-made millionaire from Bible preaching) published an LP phonograph record in the mid-60's, in which he pretended to interview Lee Harvey Oswald.  In this LP, Hargis had obtained the rights to the radio interview of Oswald by Bill Stuckey.  Then, in a recording studio, Hargis dubbed in his own voice over Bill Stuckey's voice, and filled in the questions -- and this gave the illusion that Billy James Hargis interviewed Lee Harvey Oswald.

That's getting too close for my comfort.  Yet I have researched the segregationist Reverend Billy James Hargis.  I find him to be a Fake Conservative, because after he founded a college and a child-care center in the South, he was later sued for sexual molestation of both his college students and his child-care center kids.

He lived a VERY SECRET LIFE.   Just like General Walker.  When people are violent and SECRET -- there is real danger -- I'm convinced.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Paul,

You make some very good points.

The radical right, most certainly thought JFK was an appeaser and had sold out the US to the "reds". To them, Kennedy was a traitor. They wanted to set the clock back. Granted many others outside of the radical right also thought JFK was an appeaser. 

Interesting tidbits about Hargis. That gives a good example to the motto: "Do as I say, not as I do."

Edited October 9, 2017 by Roger DeLaria

[Paul Trejo]

On 10/9/2017 at 11:31 AM, Mathias Baumann said:

Hello Jason,

it's my firm belief that David Sanchez Morales was involved in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. I think Paul Trejo believes the same. But I don't understand how he links him to racists like General Walker.

Morales had been a victim of racism himself as a boy (see "The Last Investigation"). Why would he work for people who despised him? It doesn't make sense in my opinion. On the other hand we know that Morales and Johnny Roselli worked together in Operation Mongoose. Roselli was also friends with Bill Harvey, who hated the Kennedys with a passion.  In the 1970s Roselli was killed when he started talking about the assassination.

In contrast to the southern racists organized crime really DID Profit from the deaths of John and Robert Kennedy, because Lyndon Johnson called off the war on crime when he came to office.

Mathias,

The following is my opinion.

I agree that David Morales was part of the JFK plot -- mainly because he confessed to his friend, Ruben Carbajal.

Yes, he was a CIA officer -- but that, IMHO, does not lead to a hard conclusion that the entire CIA was involved.   

Howard Hunt also confessed on his deathbed to his son -- and he named David Morales (IIRC), so these two CIA guys are definitely guilty.

Yet they were not top-level in the CIA.  They were middle-level.   Let's look closer at both. 

First, Howard Hunt said that he was "on the sidelines."   I believe his confession, so I must also believe his qualifying statement.  He was on the sidelines, like a payroll guy, or some such role.  This is what Marita Lorenz testified -- that Hunt was a payroll guy.   OK.  

Howard Hunt said he got involved in the JFK plot at the invitation of Frank Sturgis -- who was not a CIA officer or regular employee.  That's important because Frank Sturgis also confessed (actually boasted) about some role in the JFK assassination.

Frank Sturgis also knew David Morales.   David Morales is often thought of as a leader in the JFK plot -- yet if Frank Sturgis (a civilian) invited Howard Hunt into the plot, then it is also possible that Frank Sturgis invited David Morales into the plot.  This makes it possible that we are really talking about a Civilian Plot to kill JFK.

Now -- what is the character of David Morales?   He was actually an assassin himself.  He had killed countless people in South America at the request of the CIA, in their battle to stop Communism from spreading in South America.   David Morales lived at the level of Executions.  That was his job -- his daily bread.

David Morales was also shattered by the Bay of Pigs.  He was personally involved (and I realize that Hunt, Phillips and Harvey, were too) but Morales could not get over it.  Morales was Latino himself, and he identified perhaps too much with the Cuban Exiles -- many of whom were his personal friends whom he saw mowed down at the Bay of Pigs.

David Morales took it personally.

So, in my CT, Frank Sturgis and David Morales were desperately seeking some way to kill Fidel Castro, and for YEARS they failed.  This made them increasingly bitter and desperate.  Then they started listening to groups that wanted JFK dead.  Frank Sturgis, who wandered closer to mercenary and civilian circles, probably through Interpen's leader, Garry Patrick Hemming, was invited into Radical Right plan to reverse the Brown Decision by starting a Racial War in the USA. 

Two of the leaders of that movement were Joseph Milteer and General Walker.  Gerry Patrick Hemming had a written correspondence with General Walker.

Joseph Milteer was obsessed with the Racial issue.  General Walker was not -- he exploited it for personal power.  Walker was willing to do anything to advance the politics of the Radical Right, which alone had kept faith with him after the disastrous failure of the 1962 Ole Miss riots to keep that college all white. 

In my CT, Frank Sturgis joins the Radical RIght plot -- not for the racism; but for the best chance to kill JFK and get revenge for the Bay of Pigs.   Frank Sturgis invited David Morales and Howard Hunt into the plot, and Morales jumped at the chance, because he wanted revenge on JFK so badly -- he had taken it personally.

General Walker's craving for revenge was also personal, because after the Ole Miss fiasco (which occurred around the same time as the Cuban Missile Crisis), JFK and RFK had sent Walker to an insane asylum -- ruining forever any chance of a mainstream political career for Walker.   (Remember that Walker had run for Texas Governor only a few months before the Ole Miss riots).

So, I could go on, obviously, but there is my explanation for how David Morales, a CIA rogue, joined General Walker's plot to kill JFK in Dallas.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited October 11, 2017 by Paul Trejo
typos

[Jason Ward]

3 hours ago, Mathias Baumann said:

Hello Jason,

it's my firm belief that David Sanchez Morales was involved in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. I think Paul Trejo believes the same. But I don't understand how he links him to racists like General Walker.

Morales had been a victim of racism himself as a boy (see "The Last Investigation"). Why would he work for people who despised him? It doesn't make sense in my opinion. On the other hand we know that Morales and Johnny Roselli worked together in Operation Mongoose. Roselli was also friends with Bill Harvey, who hated the Kennedys with a passion.  In the 1970s Roselli was killed when he started talking about the assassination.

In contrast to the southern racists organized crime really DID Profit from the deaths of John and Robert Kennedy, because Lyndon Johnson called off the war on crime when he came to office.

 

Hi Mathias,

I have no strong opinion about Morales, so Paul Trejo can address how he connects to the racist conservatives if he likes.  

I will say that whatever Morales might have done in regards to the assassination I am certain he did outside of the CIA or any other government capacity.   That's an important point that a lot of CTers forget about the 100k+ people who have ever had contact with the CIA as career agents, contractors, hired workers, informants, or other assets.

Just as a general opinion based on no research on him personally, I don't think Morales would risk going to prison or the electric chair merely to kill JFK because it avenges his hatred.   He'd have to believe that the consequences of Kennedy staying in office were so bad that he had few choices anyway; i.e. the country was going to get destroyed so it's worth risking prison and death for:  Do you think Morales was that agreeable to his own life in prison or capital punishment?

Thanks for re-joining the conversation, I hope you'll stick around.

 

regards

 

Jason

 

 

 

[Paul Trejo]

4 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

...We have a coverup that is now 54 years old, presumably to protect a small group of racist ultra rightists conspirators, a coverup managed by government agencies, elected and unelected, a compliant media. This makes no sense on its face.

Paul B.,

I agree that this makes no sense -- and that is the best evidence that it is simply a mistake.

The JFK assassination Coverup which was started by J. Edgar Hoover -- the SBT -- was intended as he said (and repeated by Earl Warren, Allen Dulles and LBJ) for NATIONAL SECURITY.

In other words, without this SBT excuse for hiding thousands of documents from the American People, it appears that Hoover (and Warren, Dulles and LBJ) feared RIOTS and other uprisings that the FBI could not handle.

People have said -- that's no excuse!  Just let the US Military handle it!   But that ignores the politics of 1963 -- the Cold War.  It would have been a disastrous move.

So, the SBT -- although quite false -- was probably the best choice among bad choices.   So LBJ bought it. 

That's all it takes for a Government -- if the US President said that the Warren Report must be the US Government position -- then the US Government will keep that position until another US President says it no longer needs to be the position.

Earl Warren in 1964 gave the deadline to release the true JFK record -- 75 years later -- 2039.

Yet in 1992, President GHW Bush signed the JFK Records Act, which would release the true JFK record on Thursday 26 October 2017.  That is only about two weeks away.

Let's see what J. Edgar Hoover and Earl Warren were hiding all these decades.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

15 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

 

A little more radical right related evidence to chew on...

...this is an internal CIA memo describing a National Enquirer article purporting to reveal that RFK prevented Oswald and Ruby from arrest in the April 1963 Walker shooting - because they worked for the CIA.

 

Jason,

It is my opinion that just as General Walker leaked the Oswald/Walker story to that German newspaper you cited above from Jesse Curry's mail -- so also did General Walker leak this story about Oswald/Ruby to the National Enquirer.  Not just this story, but other stories, too. 

Propaganda was important to General Walker -- he called it the "fourth dimension" of warfare.  He had been reduced to tabloids and underground press -- but he used them continually and consistently.   He has left history many clues about his actual behavior in 1963.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo