Did the Dallas Radical Right kill JFK?

[Paul Trejo]

18 hours ago, David Andrews said:

Paul, I doubt that backing down the oil and steel interests, and the Fed, plus - the ne plus ultra - refusing war in Laos and Vietnam, were in the interests of assuaging big business.  JFK did what he had to do to preserve peace and equity, and might have done more for those denied those luxuries in a second term.  He was the most capital-P Progressive POTUS since FDR, and a far cry from con-men Progressives Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson, who served the industrialists and the bankers.  (Insert Barrack Obama's name here.)  He was a Progressive for the internationalist age ushered in by FDR, and on that battlefield he opposed big business where the lives of its victims could be spared.

David,

I grant you that Capitalism was divided in the USA after the Second World War between Large Capital and Small Capital.

FDR had the big vision for an American Century of Global Capitalism -- a world without Colonies, without slavery, with Justice for all ensured by a Pax Americana.

We had stumbled into this responsibility at the end of the Second World War, when London and Berlin had been reduced to rubble.  FDR and a few others saw the duty.

But others in the USA did not see it.  The Small Capital interests only wanted to pounce and dominate.

JFK could see the promise of the American Empire and the Pax Americana.  JFK knew that the USSR could never keep up with us, once we got organized.

The vision of Global Capitalism does propose Justice for all, education for all and abundance for all.  It's just that some small-minded Small Capital folks don't see it.

JFK was promoting Large Capital interests.  It was Small Capital that killed him; small businessmen, jealous of the Eastern Establishment and Large Capital -- racist, bigoted, incapable of grasping the duties of Global Capital.  

That's what killed JFK.   There were no Deeper Politics.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited October 16, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Jason Ward]

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

...

...

It was Small Capital that killed him; small businessmen, jealous of the Eastern Establishment and Large Capital -- racist, bigoted, incapable of grasping the duties of Global Capital.  

That's what killed JFK.   There were no Deeper Politics.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Paul,

To me history is more or less static in this regard:

Large Capital lives forever and has little to fear of JFK or any president.

Small Capital lives forever in fear and believes they are on the verge of destruction with the tiniest hint of progressive policy.  

The authors of the assassination were not men who knew their world was more powerful than any president; the men who killed Kennedy believed JFK must die or their own world would end.  It was either "him or me" in terms of survival in their minds, and they chose "me."

Murdering JFK was a gamble and dangerous.  Prison and the electric chair is not what comfortable members of The Establishment gamble on for even one in one million odds.  Only the irrationally insecure and fearful risk everything to kill the president.  IMO.

 

regards

 

Jason

[Jason Ward]

On 10/12/2017 at 11:15 PM, Andrej Stancak said:

The money order to  Klein Sporting Goods and subsequent bank transfer forms.

The money order and anything related to post offices or the US Mail are easily produced in November by none other than Harry Holmes.   The bank documents, which do NOT match the correct dates for the time Oswald allegedly ordered a rifle, merely show Klein's deposited the nominal amount of a rifle' s cost to their bank account.  Any rifle sold would create the same evidence.

See Ian's essay here:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=48706&search=Harry_holmes#relPageId=3&tab=page

 

Regards

Jason

Edited October 16, 2017 by Jason Ward

[George Sawtelle]

Paul and Jason

Sullivan and Cromwell is not small capital. They and their clients would lose $$millions if Castro stayed in power. Kennedy's back channel peace efforts would eventually lead to peace with Cuba where Castro would stay in power.

Capitalist gain drove these people.

The fear of losing their capital drove them to murder, IMO. 

[Mathias Baumann]

15 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Mathias,

Aha -- you triggered my memory when you mentioned the LaRouche group.

LaRouche had a very vivid imagination, and he tried to connect historical dots by using his imagination.

For Lyndon LaRouche, the Queen of England was a heroin pusher (and his followers believe she still is).   His erudition in some areas cannot make up for his ridiculous exclamations in other areas.  LaRouche lacks credibility with me.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Paul,

what I'm driving at is that there seems to be some circumstantial evidence that WerBell was close or at least sympathetic to far-right groups. Not only did he train right-wingers in his camps but some of his machine guns somehow ended up in the hands of Italian neo-Fascists.

In my opinion the whole title of this thread is wrong - the Dallas far-right was certainly not behind the assassination, at least not alone. We've already established there were several other plots in other cities, so the conspiracy had to have been much bigger.

We also know that during the Cold War the "far right" also had an international dimension. I'm specifically talking about groups like the "World Anti-Communist League" (WACL) and its connections to the military dictatorships of Taiwan and Latin American and Apartheid South Africa. I think it's no coincidence that the American section of the WACL would later be headed by WerBell's old pal from Indochina, John Singlaub. (Banister's Anti-Communist League of the Caribbean would later also become part of the WACL.)

It was under the umbrella of the WACL that Latin America's military regimes would launch "Operation Condor", a program of targeted killings of dissidents. The Letelier murder for instance was ordered by Chilean intelligence and carried out by exile Cubans, but it had been planned by former CIA contract agent Michael Townley. Townley again can be linked to David Attlee Phillips. He ran a clandestine radio station that broadcast anti-Allende propaganda during the time that Phillips was running his anti-Allende operation. And there's circumstantial evidence that Phillips was also involved in the planning of the murder of Letelier (see the "Last Investigation"). (By the way, Townley would later also allege that the Pinochet Regime had ordered him to kill Olaf Palme, although he refused to carry out this assignment. There's evidence that the actual killing of Palme had been a mutual operation of South African agents and Neo-Nazis in the Stockholm police force.)

My point is: I think that the lines you draw between the "radical right", the military, the intelligence agencies and politics don't seem to exist in reality. I think there's no way that an operation as big and sophisticated as the Kennedy assassination could have been carried out without the knowledge or even consent of the powers that be in Washington.

Now if you could show how General Walker was linked to, say, Lyndon Johnson, that would be interesting I think. Johnson, Texas oil and the big military hardware makers there certainly had a mutual interest in removing Kennedy.

After all, what did Johnson say in early 1963 about Kennedy when he announced his trip to Texas? "Wait until November until you shoot him down." How prescient.

 

Edited October 16, 2017 by Mathias Baumann

[Jason Ward]

On 10/13/2017 at 10:55 AM, Mathias Baumann said:

Jason,

if you compare the backgrounds of Oswald and Gilberto Lopez you'll realize that the plotters chose their patsies very carefully. Both men had been to Russia, both had been in fights with anti-Castro exiles, both were associated with the Fairplay for Cuba Commitee, both had traveld to Mexico shortly before the assassination etc.

And Dealey Plaza had that peculiar "dog leg" curve, so the crime scene was also chosen deliberately. The plotters left nothing to chance.

Hi Mathias,

For the outcome desired by the prime movers of the assassination: Yes, I agree with you.

For the Lone Nut outcome delivered by Hoover, LBJ, and the Warren Commission - little you say here matters and I therefore disagree with you.  

Russia, Castro, Mexico, Dallas, the backyard photos, Dealey Plaza and so forth are almost completely irrelevant to a Lone Nut explanation.   If the planners wanted a Lone Nut explanation adopted by the public they would have chosen a mentally ill zombie like Sirhan Sirhan, Lynette Squeaky Fromme, or John Hinckley.

Lee Harvey Oswald's grooming efforts do not support the Lone Nut narrative.

Regards

Jason 

[Jason Ward]

10 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

Paul and Jason

Sullivan and Cromwell is not small capital. They and their clients would lose $$millions if Castro stayed in power. Kennedy's back channel peace efforts would eventually lead to peace with Cuba where Castro would stay in power.

Capitalist gain drove these people.

The fear of losing their capital drove them to murder, IMO. 

Disagree.

The assassination did nothing for lost US assets in Cuba.   Wall Street and Big Capital don't fear asset failure, they pass the cost on to the public or government.  The S&L crisis, stock market crashes,  and the more recent Great Recession is how Big Capital transfers losses to the rest of us, who are left holding the bag after they divest.  The clients of Cravath Swaine, Baker Botts, and Sullivan Cromwell always retain their wealth and power regardless of president, they have nothing to fear of JFK nor democracy. 

 

Jason 

[George Sawtelle]

Jason

All well and good but big capital doesn't want to make a habit of transfering losses to us by etc, etc, etc. Going to the well too many times leaves them open for discovery. Apparently you've already discovered their modus operandi and many others privy to the same information. When the average citizen finds out it could get ugly and that is what big capital would like to avoid. That is the main reason communism scares them so much. A communist revolution could take them down or drive them out of the country.

A French type revolution and especially a communist revolution in the US would seriously compromise the retention of big capital's assets IMO.

You forgot the disclaimer IMO in your post above. 

 

[David Andrews]

Paul's right - the Better Business Bureau got him.

[Paul Trejo]

19 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

Paul's right - the Better Business Bureau got him.

David,

No, the John Birch Society (and their Minutemen) got him.

Regards,
--Paul

[Paul Trejo]

4 hours ago, Mathias Baumann said:

Paul,

...In my opinion the whole title of this thread is wrong - the Dallas far-right was certainly not behind the assassination, at least not alone. We've already established there were several other plots in other cities, so the conspiracy had to have been much bigger.

...My point is: I think that the lines you draw between the "radical right", the military, the intelligence agencies and politics don't seem to exist in reality. I think there's no way that an operation as big and sophisticated as the Kennedy assassination could have been carried out without the knowledge or even consent of the powers that be in Washington.

...Now if you could show how General Walker was linked to, say, Lyndon Johnson, that would be interesting I think. Johnson, Texas oil and the big military hardware makers there certainly had a mutual interest in removing Kennedy.

Mathias,

The following is my opinion.

There is no way that the JFK plot had to be bigger than the Dallas Radical Right.   I believe you are selling the Dallas Far Right too short.  They had almost no opposition in Dallas.

The lines I draw between the Radical Right and the US Government are very clear and reasonable.  They exist.  The Radical Right hates the US Government and wants to destroy it.  That's their very definition.  For the Radical Right, the US Government is controlled by the Enemy (however a given sect defines Enemy: Communists, Jews, World Bankers, etc.)   (By the way, the reason I use the term, Radical Right, is because Jeff Caufield uses that term -- correctly.)

When you say that the JFK assassination was "a big and sophisticated operation" you must mean far more than the sneak, guerilla attack of Dealey Plaza.   That only took a few seconds and a few dozen people.   It was tiny.

So, you must mean the JFK Cover-up, which took hundreds of people, coordinated over all the USA for many months.  However, I have carefully separated the JFK Cover-up Team from the JFK Kill Team.  I have shown how the JFK Cover-up Team did in fact consist of the US Government, led by J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI. 

The JFK Kill Team killed JFK in Dealey Plaza and tried to use Lee Harvey Oswald to blame the Communists for the assassination, to inspire the USA to invade Cuba and take it back from the Communists.  The US Government, on the other hand, blamed Lee Harvey Oswald alone as the Lone Nut, to calm America down, and to undermine the Radical Right.  It worked.

As for any connection between the sly, political fox, LBJ, and the life-time, closeted homosexual, Edwin Walker, there could never be any connection.  LBJ was a genius (in domestic politics, not in international politics) while Edwin Walker graduated at the bottom of his class.  LBJ loved the USA, while Edwin Walker wanted a racial war in the USA so that he could get revenge for his failed life.

Edwin Walker's reading material was almost entirely magazines -- for his entire life.  The only books he ever read were military ballistic manuals.  He was brilliant (or at least supremely well-trained) in military maneuvers.   We continually forget that Walker was a lifetime, seasoned, US Army veteran.  Give him the proper credit -- and voila! -- you have Dealey Plaza.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited October 16, 2017 by Paul Trejo
typos

[Kirk Gallaway]

Certainly the Central Asian link was prominent back the, hence the U'S-Brit invasion of Iran with the thought of securing their oil fields before Hitler. i think the crown jewel of that area were the Baku fields in Azerbaijan. But of course of Central Asia if you don't include Iraq and Iran were controlled by the Soviets.

It's a great question Steve. But a very speculative and tough one. If you assume the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. You might think of a link to Texas oil men, but it really doesn't involve that much money that any number of groups could have invested, either separately or jointly.

[Jason Ward]

On 10/13/2017 at 10:55 AM, Mathias Baumann said:

Jason,

...

...

The plotters left nothing to chance.

 

Hi Mathias,

The circus stunt fireworks show in Dealey Plaza was left to chance.   The fruitcake pimp Jack Ruby actually doing his job was left to chance.   What perpetual low rent loser Oswald may have said to his wife was left to chance.   That Oswald would show up in the Texas Theatre was left to chance.   That a brilliant and honest man in the FBI, DPD, or Secret Service might happen on to the truth and spill the beans was left to chance.  

That someone might photograph the gunmen and the entire assassination was left to chance.  

That the Dallas doctors would tell the truth of frontal and rear entry wounds was left to chance.  That someone like Mark Lane or Joachim Joesten would discover and publish 90% of the true sequence of events within a year was left to chance.   The possibility that Governor Connally would tell the truth from November 1963 until the day he died was left to chance (Connally's testimony that JFK was hit by a separate bullet BEFORE any bullet hit his body).  That various hookers and Bourbon Street urchins might talk was left to chance - i.e. Rose Cheramie and Perry Russo.

...and on and on.

All of the above was entirely left to chance and many of the items above could or did in fact destroy the Lone Nut narrative if and when the truth is/was revealed.

This isn't some pinpoint precise operation by an all-powerful secretive cabal of Bilderbergers who rule the world without fear of prosecution.  This was a roulette wheel of luck and messy coverups and disastrous leaks from day one.  Nothing left to chance is how Alexander Litvinenko was killed and it's how powerful intelligence agencies like the CIA kill.    Nothing left to chance is the way powerful organized crime families killed Jimmy Hoffa.   

Practically everything left to chance is how Kennedy was killed - there was probably only 1 fatal shot out of 6 or more fired that day - with numerous misses.   People who leave nothing to chance don't count on incompetents like Oswald and Ruby, nor do they leave the likes of Rose Cheramie and Perry Russo hanging around with just enough gossip to sink the lone nut theory.   Those who leave nothing to chance don't shoot from a 6 story building at a guy passing below in a convertible.  The authors of the assassination were a bunch of gamblers taking a gamble.  The gamble failed; the plotters didn't get what they wanted when Kennedy died at the hands of a "lone nut assassin."  

The plotters get what they want only when the murder is blamed on Castro or the Soviets.

If the all powerful intelligence agencies and Hoover did it, then there would be no lingering evidence whatsoever and no industry of conspiracy books-theories-communities for the last 50+ years.  

Where is Jimmy Hoffa or Hale Boggs* right now? - - - these are examples of nothing-left-to-chance-killings, not Dealey Plaza.

 

regards

Jason

 

 

* missing since 45 years ago this day

 

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by Jason Ward

[George Sawtelle]

Jason

Nothing left to chance is sequestering the body of Kennedy and performing a fake autopsy at Bethesda that would become the official autopsy, the only one that counts. The official autopsy trumps all the mistakes made, all the events left to chance that would upset the lone nut theory and all unforseen events that might derail the WC report which would be released later.

The plotters and their helpers could cover-up the crime of the century by dominating the evidence and spreading plausible deniability in the right places. Fifty four plus years later and it still carries the day.

[Jason Ward]

1 minute ago, George Sawtelle said:

Jason

Nothing left to chance is sequestering the body of Kennedy and performing a fake autopsy at Bethesda that would become the official autopsy, the only one that counts. The official autopsy trumps all the mistakes made, all the events left to chance that would upset the lone nut theory and all unforseen events that might derail the WC report which would be released later.

The plotters and their helpers could cover-up the crime of the century by dominating the evidence and spreading plausible deniability in the right places. Fifty four plus years later and it still carries the day.

Hi George,

If nothing was left to chance by the autopsy, how do YOU know it was fake?  It seems like something was left to chance...

 

Jason