Don Jeffries Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Getting back to the classroom photo- I too have long wondered about the circumstances behind this photo. Oswald blackening out his teeth is a ridiculous notion, but how (and why) this picture was taken is I think an important question. I never remember a single instance of anyone taking a photograph inside a classroom during my twelve years of public education. I'm not sure cameras were even permitted in schools, and one would guess that the teacher (or a student) would have noticed the photographer getting his camera out and snapping the picture inside this classroom. If the idea was to display the remnants of a fight, why not simply take a photo of Oswald outside the classroom somewhere? There is much about Oswald that is almost surrealistic. For example, what kind of cosmic coincidence is it that the only home movie footage of him just happened to be taken on November 22, 1962? How many other young men in his economic class would have been offered both radio and television interviews? How many would have been the subject of a novel (written by his very interesting Marine Corps buddy Kerry Thornley) before the assassination? Some or all of these intriguing questions may be related to the Harvey and Lee phenomenon. But there is no doubt that Oswald- whoever or whatever he was- was far more than a misguided Marxist defector forced to work lowly-paid jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Don Jeffries said: Getting back to the classroom photo- I too have long wondered about the circumstances behind this photo. Oswald blackening out his teeth is a ridiculous notion, but how (and why) this picture was taken is I think an important question. I never remember a single instance of anyone taking a photograph inside a classroom during my twelve years of public education. I'm not sure cameras were even permitted in schools, and one would guess that the teacher (or a student) would have noticed the photographer getting his camera out and snapping the picture inside this classroom. If the idea was to display the remnants of a fight, why not simply take a photo of Oswald outside the classroom somewhere? There is much about Oswald that is almost surrealistic. For example, what kind of cosmic coincidence is it that the only home movie footage of him just happened to be taken on November 22, 1962? How many other young men in his economic class would have been offered both radio and television interviews? How many would have been the subject of a novel (written by his very interesting Marine Corps buddy Kerry Thornley) before the assassination? Some or all of these intriguing questions may be related to the Harvey and Lee phenomenon. But there is no doubt that Oswald- whoever or whatever he was- was far more than a misguided Marxist defector forced to work lowly-paid jobs. Don, I disagree with your claim that the blackening of Oswald's teeth is "ridiculous." A careful look at that photograph shows that the black space indicated in that photo is far larger than a single tooth -- and is closer to 2.5 teeth. If so, then blackening by means of black paper or some such is a rational conclusion. As for that photo -- I have also long considered it an anomaly. The rest of the students in the room seem oblivious to a photo being taken -- and LHO was clearly happy "mugging" for the camera. I often had the impression that the other students were also posing -- pretending to be studying hard. Yet that is unusual. I even had the impression that the teacher herself seems to be posing for the camera. Otherwise, it had to be a quick snapshot -- but in that case it would be unusual for the students next to LHO to be unaware of the camera. (One explanation is that the picture was snapped very quickly, coordinated by LHO and Ed Voebel, and instantly afterwards, the teacher scolded both Voebel and LHO. Another explanation is that the photo is another FAKE created by LHO.) Further, the only source of the "missing tooth" story is the kid who took the photograph. He is probably inventor of the story. (The story does not appear in any of the testimony of LHO's mother, brothers, teachers, doctors, dentists or relatives. His aunt Murrett only says his lip was split by a tooth). As for the surrealistic quality of the life of LHO, I agree completely. Yet I find nothing UNREALISTIC about it, either. In the USA during 1959 through 1963, LHO was a fairly unique character -- but not impossible. As a Marxist in Texas he would have been very rare. However, let us not forget the years LHO lived in New York City as a neglected child who wandered the streets, zoo and public library. As for Kerry Thornley, whose WC testimony reveals a young intellectual who wanted to be a writer -- who would stick out more in the Marines than a young Marxist? A young writer would surely remember such a character -- especially since, as Thornley testified, LHO reminded him of "Beetle Bailey." Finally, in the USA in 1962-1963, a sullen Marxist in Texas who had a less-than-honorable discharge from the Marines could only get minimum wage jobs -- and that seems to me a hard, sociological fact. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited February 13, 2018 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 47 minutes ago, Don Jeffries said: Getting back to the classroom photo- I too have long wondered about the circumstances behind this photo. Oswald blackening out his teeth is a ridiculous notion, but how (and why) this picture was taken is I think an important question. I never remember a single instance of anyone taking a photograph inside a classroom during my twelve years of public education. I'm not sure cameras were even permitted in schools, and one would guess that the teacher (or a student) would have noticed the photographer getting his camera out and snapping the picture inside this classroom. If the idea was to display the remnants of a fight, why not simply take a photo of Oswald outside the classroom somewhere? There is much about Oswald that is almost surrealistic. For example, what kind of cosmic coincidence is it that the only home movie footage of him just happened to be taken on November 22, 1962? How many other young men in his economic class would have been offered both radio and television interviews? How many would have been the subject of a novel (written by his very interesting Marine Corps buddy Kerry Thornley) before the assassination? Some or all of these intriguing questions may be related to the Harvey and Lee phenomenon. But there is no doubt that Oswald- whoever or whatever he was- was far more than a misguided Marxist defector forced to work lowly-paid jobs. Hi Don, good to see you posting. IDK about you but in the mid 70's when I graduated Jr High we had all sorts of fun things in that yearbook... I believe the last sentence continues... "... and had been stopping: into different classrooms to take photos...." What difference does it make in any case? The photo is real, Myra DeRouse even identified the classroom and some of those in the photo but did NOT recognize that boy as the Harvey Oswald she knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Don Jeffries said: Getting back to the classroom photo- I too have long wondered about the circumstances behind this photo. Oswald blackening out his teeth is a ridiculous notion, but how (and why) this picture was taken is I think an important question. I never remember a single instance of anyone taking a photograph inside a classroom during my twelve years of public education. I'm not sure cameras were even permitted in schools, and one would guess that the teacher (or a student) would have noticed the photographer getting his camera out and snapping the picture inside this classroom. If the idea was to display the remnants of a fight, why not simply take a photo of Oswald outside the classroom somewhere? There is much about Oswald that is almost surrealistic. For example, what kind of cosmic coincidence is it that the only home movie footage of him just happened to be taken on November 22, 1962? How many other young men in his economic class would have been offered both radio and television interviews? How many would have been the subject of a novel (written by his very interesting Marine Corps buddy Kerry Thornley) before the assassination? Some or all of these intriguing questions may be related to the Harvey and Lee phenomenon. But there is no doubt that Oswald- whoever or whatever he was- was far more than a misguided Marxist defector forced to work lowly-paid jobs. Don, the memo that David Josephs posted seems to explain the circumstances of the photo in a reasonably sensible way. My own school experience memories tell me that the photo is not suspiciously illogical in it's provenance. In my own high school yearbook is a photo that is so similar to this one it is uncanny. While the teacher is engrossed with interaction with the majority of students who are intently listening, there were always a couple of what I would categorize as Attention Deficit Disorder afflicted kids that were always outside of the inner circle and often fidgeting or looking around and even clowning around at the same time. A school year book picture taker of ours took this photo as well. Seems to me most teachers in the public school system back then with 30+ kids in each class were used to always having 2 or 3 kids in the class who were like this and they just let them alone ( to different degrees ) to do their distracted thing ( usually in the back of the room where they purposely sat these effected kids ) as long as it didn't cause too much noise or distraction for the rest of the class. But your summary of Oswald doing so many strange things and interacting with so many strange people during and after service life which was so far out on the scale of normalcy that this reality forces one to face the fact that he was part of something bigger than his own little world ...is a more logical view than not. When one list even 50% of the out of the ordinary things Oswald was doing and involved with in his short 24 year young life, this alone is enough to rationally conclude this view. Paul's reminding us of Oswald's neglect as a child is a very large and important piece of the Oswald puzzle IMO. Oswald not only had poverty to deal with as a child, he had no fatherly love and nurturing and guidance and protection in his developmental years and if anyone has read much about his mother, he was forced to exist and deal with an absolute ghoul of a person for a mother to boot. The loneliness, neglect and pain he obviously felt as a child and adolescent under those neglectful circumstances must have been tragically horrible. These developmental dynamics usually leave their sufferers with deep life long bitterness and anger and mistrust toward almost everything and everybody. I have known some women like Marguerite Oswald in my life. I don't know how their kids survived their childhoods with them. Edited February 13, 2018 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 2 hours ago, David Josephs said: Hi Don, good to see you posting. IDK about you but in the mid 70's when I graduated Jr High we had all sorts of fun things in that yearbook... I believe the last sentence continues... "... and had been stopping: into different classrooms to take photos...." What difference does it make in any case? The photo is real, Myra DeRouse even identified the classroom and some of those in the photo but did NOT recognize that boy as the Harvey Oswald she knew. David, I just had a couple of quick questions: If WDSU-TV gave the negative of this photo to Life Magazine, why did Life pay Voebel $75.00 for it, as stated in Armstrong's Harvey and Lee? If the picture was taken in 1954, how did WDSU have it in 1963? The News Director said it had never been published before. Did Voebel have some kind of connection to WSDU? If Life didn't pay him, why would Voebel claim they did? Do you know if anyone has looked at the 1955 Beaureguard Yearbook to see if that photo is actually in the Yearbook? Voebel said he was taking photographs for inclusion in the Yearbook,, but he didn't say it actually was in the Yearbook. If it was in the Yearbook, did it have a caption to it? It would be interesting to see what it says. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) If WDSU-TV gave the negative of this photo to Life Magazine, why did Life pay Voebel $75.00 for it, as stated in Armstrong's Harvey and Lee? WDSU took a photo of the photo... this is the reference for the $75 so I've asked John/Jim to help explain... My guess is that some payment was needed for publishing the work and since WDSU did not actually take the original photo, Voebel gets a taste.... The image was not placed into LIFE until Feb 1964.... CE284. This is from an Armstrong notebook on VOEBEL... If the picture was taken in 1954, how did WDSU have it in 1963? The News Director said it had never been published before. Did Voebel have some kind of connection to WSDU? I can only imagine that it was VOEBEL who went to WDSU in '63 since he had a print of the image... Not published before Dec 1963, which it wasn't.... it never made it to the yearbook. If Life didn't pay him, why would Voebel claim they did? So far I do not see corroboration for the $75 payment other than it being stated by John... and he does not refer to an interview with Voebel... I sent him an email asking what he remembers.... with a cc to Jim Hargrove as it was he who posted it... http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/?app=core&module=system&controller=content&do=find&content_class=forums_Topic&content_id=23525&content_commentid=345457 Do you know if anyone has looked at the 1955 Beaureguard Yearbook to see if that photo is actually in the Yearbook? Steve - I can't stress how important the Baylor archive is... and John's raw research files.... I must have 200 of them downloaded already... http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/ref/collection/po-arm/id/27534 is VOEBEL Usually school photos are taken in the fall... Officially Oswald did not start until January 1954... this photo would be from FALL 1954 as he graduated in June 1955. Voebel said he was taking photographs for inclusion in the Yearbook,, but he didn't say it actually was in the Yearbook. Correct... he said he had been taking photos, obviously not all he took would make the yearbook... and while many of the pages were copied, not the entire book was.... If it was in the Yearbook, did it have a caption to it? It would be interesting to see what it says. Me too... it's not in the copies.... Edited August 22, 2023 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 11 hours ago, David Josephs said: If the picture was taken in 1954, how did WDSU have it in 1963? The News Director said it had never been published before. Did Voebel have some kind of connection to WSDU? I can only imagine that it was VOEBEL who went to WDSU in '63 since he had a print of the image... Not published before Dec 1963, which it wasn't.... it never made it to the yearbook. David, Thank you. You've been very helpful. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 That's what we're here for, my pleasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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