David Boylan Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Veciana and "Mr. Bishop." Interesting doc from Feb 1964. "On February 28, 1964 seven Cubans representing the SNFE, and two Americans who were described as lawyers from Orlando, Florida, met in the office of ELLIOT ROOSEVELT, Miami. Five of the Cubans known to the source were ANTONlO VECIANA,. RICHARD VERANES, one GARCIA (first name unknown), one MEDINA; .possibly CARLOS MEDINA, and ARMANDO FLEITES. The two Americans were a Mr. BISHOP and BOB PETRIE, both lawyers, allegedly from Orlando." http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/docid-32302103.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 So Bishop, possibly Maurice/David Phillips, was dealing with Veciana in March 64? Tends to give credence to Veciana's assertions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 On 2/13/2018 at 6:00 PM, David Boylan said: Veciana and "Mr. Bishop." Interesting doc from Feb 1964. "On February 28, 1964 seven Cubans representing the SNFE, and two Americans who were described as lawyers from Orlando, Florida, met in the office of ELLIOT ROOSEVELT, Miami. Five of the Cubans known to the source were ANTONlO VECIANA,. RICHARD VERANES, one GARCIA (first name unknown), one MEDINA; .possibly CARLOS MEDINA, and ARMANDO FLEITES. The two Americans were a Mr. BISHOP and BOB PETRIE, both lawyers, allegedly from Orlando." http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/docid-32302103.pdf David, Have you ever seen this document? https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/180-10144-10153.pdf Did Veciana ever describe David Atlee Phillips as his case officer? Did Veciana out Maurice Bishop as David Atlee Phillips before, or was it after after seeing him with Oswald in Dallas in September, 1963? Reading through that document, it sounds to me like the CIA didn't want anything to do with Veciana. Perhaps Veciana was trying to screw Phillips once Oswald became famous? Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) I've never doubted Antonio Veciana's story -- yet he never said he was involved in the JFK Assassination -- nor did he imply that "Maurice Bishop" was involved in the JFK Assassination. Veciana's only claim was that he met "Bishop" with Lee Harvey Oswald in Dallas in September 1963. Simple claim. No more no less. It was a brief meeting, and it was only an introduction. The context of David Atlee Phillips and Alpha 66 was the planned assassination of Fidel Castro. This is why LHO was claiming to be FPCC in September 1966 -- LHO was part of DAP's plot to kill FIdel Castro. DAP admitted this much in his manuscript, The AMLASH Legacy (1988). Therefore, the meeting of Veciana, "Bishop" and LHO in September 1963 was clearly in the context of planning to assassinate Fidel Castro. Finally, anybody who thinks that smuggling cocaine is somehow new to Latin American underground politics is not paying attention. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited February 16, 2018 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Boylan Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 4 hours ago, Steve Thomas said: David, Have you ever seen this document? https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/180-10144-10153.pdf Did Veciana ever describe David Atlee Phillips as his case officer? Did Veciana out Maurice Bishop as David Atlee Phillips before, or was it after after seeing him with Oswald in Dallas in September, 1963? Reading through that document, it sounds to me like the CIA didn't want anything to do with Veciana. Perhaps Veciana was trying to screw Phillips once Oswald became famous? Steve Thomas Steve, I have not seen this. I'm not sure what to make of the whole Veciana/Bishop connection but I easily get confused. :-) I'm sure that a lot of CIA interactions were intentionally verbal in nature and were never written down anywhere. Oh, and sources tell me that Mr. Bishop, mentioned above, was indeed a lawyer. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 "BISHOP" is Phillips.... and he owned a printing plant in south America... What do you mean he was a lawyer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, David Boylan said: Steve, I have not seen this. I'm not sure what to make of the whole Veciana/Bishop connection but I easily get confused. :-) Dave David, You and me both. BTW, do you happen to know what POA stands for? According to that document, Veciana had been considered for, or used for a short time as a POA. I figure it's Potential something Asset. It's either that or Prisoner Of Azkaban . One or the other. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Price Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 I don't know the context of the reference, but "POA" can be used to represent power of attorney in legal situations. I'm pretty sure you already assessed this possibility, but just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Boylan Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 52 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said: David, You and me both. BTW, do you happen to know what POA stands for? According to that document, Veciana had been considered for, or used for a short time as a POA. I figure it's Potential something Asset. It's either that or Prisoner Of Azkaban . One or the other. Steve Thomas Steve, I believe it Potential Operational Asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Boylan Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 1 hour ago, David Josephs said: "BISHOP" is Phillips.... and he owned a printing plant in south America... What do you mean he was a lawyer? David, no doubt. I was told that this Mr. Bishop was a lawyer in "real life." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 1 hour ago, David Boylan said: Steve, I believe it Potential Operational Asset. David, Thanks. I figured it was something like that. In that document I cited: https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/180-10144-10153.pdf I thought page 6 was interesting. 11/16/62 Index card re: Veciana "Indicates POA requested by Carl Hicks 12/29/61. Note: "Now being used by U.S. Army"." 11/30/62 Agency to Army ISR "Re; Info re Veciana disseminated to Army" Army ISR = Intelligence, Surveillance, Reconnaissance. https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-21-21/chap3.htm Not to detract from your "Mr. Bishop" thread, but you don't hear much about Veciana's work for the U.S. Army. Richard, thank you for your response. Take a look at that Archives.gov doc - that's the context I was using. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Boylan Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 Steve, Commandos L (Tony Cuesta's group) became the action group after they split from Alpha 66.They had the boats and the money to run ops. They often were of "POA" to both the Army and CIA. These guys were the real professionals and were mostly apolitical. They were so highly thought of that the Special Group used and considered them for operations. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [...] 3. Cuba a. The Group then turned to consideration of the paper from the Coordinator of Cuban Affairs dated 12 August 1963, "Support of Autonomous Anti-Castro Groups. In answer to questions, Mr. Cheever said that the project for support of Commandos L would be useful but not essential. He felt that the economic damage which this group might inflict would probably be comparatively minor. On the other hand there would be some psychological advantages to be gained, and also such operations would serve to keep the Cuban security forces busy. In view of the personal interest expressed by Mr. McCone in the project when it was tabled at the meeting of 15 August, it was agreed that no decision should be made until after the DCI's return. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SUBJECT: Minutes of Special Group Meeting, 5 September 1963 PRESENT: Mr. Bundy,. Mr •. Johnson, Mr. Gilpatric, and Mr. McCone. Mr. FitzGerald was present for Items 1 and 2. Mr. Colby was present for Items 3-5. ... 2. Cuba : Support of Autonomous Anti-Castro Group The Group then turned to further discussion of the paper from tile Coordinator of Cuban Affairs dated August 13, on the subject of Commandos L. In response to objections stated at earlier meetings to the use of a British base, Mr. FitzGerald said that it would be feasible to take off from a point in the northern Bahamas, rather than from one of the keys very near Cuba. This would considerably reduce the dangers of hot pursuit. Mr. Johnson said that purely apart from the British problem, whether or not such a change in location would alleviate it, he does not feel that the type of activity proposed accomplishes the agreed objective of reaching internal resistance elements. The Chairman, Mr. Gilpatric, and Mr. McCone all felt that support of this group in the manner outlined, should be considered as action additional to that designed to contact the resistance. Further, they felt that it would be perfectly feasible, and in fact necessary, to avoid any involvement with the British in this matter. It was finally decided that Mr. Bundy would discuss the proposal with higher authority, noting the reservations expressed by Hr. Johnson. In the event of favorable reaction by higher authority, Mr. Bundy will talk further to Mr. Johnson. Mr. McCone said that he would like to see more activity of this general nature and asked whether this could be accomplished if larger numbers of Cuban personnel were obtained. Mr. FitzGerald replied that the problem is not numbers but the degree of training and competence. In this connection, he noted that the Artime group should be ready to go in November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 On 2/16/2018 at 2:01 PM, Steve Thomas said: Steve Thomas Hi Steve, This is the thread I was inquiring about on your "The Women of JFK" thread. I got to reading about Elliott Roosevelt and It quickly became very interesting; so much so that I began to wonder why he does not have his own thread. I'll just post this here, I lieu of a thread for Elliot himself. I read this a couple times. Even so, I could not be sure, but it seems like the author is claiming that a young LHO lived, for a time, on property owned by, or recently vacated by, Elliot Rosevelt, just south of Fort Worth. http://quixoticjoust.blogspot.com/2012/05/colossal-failure-to-research-ekdahl.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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