If Oswald Was "Prayer Man" ...

[Paz Marverde]

22 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

suggest you NOT hijack this thread, even if you started the thread, and instead take it to the thread that pertains to the topic. I should be surprised you asked, but I'm not. As long as you remain center stage, you apparently don't care about the actual discussion around you.

Ditto

[Paz Marverde]

17 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

She...ep you over there?  bump that mitrokian fellah?  Nahh Thomas, why not stay right here and sort it all out?  

KGB is his obsession. He will repeat KGB, KGB, KGB all day long, no matter what the subject of the thread is

[Thomas Graves]

15 hours ago, Paz Marverde said:

KGB is his obsession. He will repeat KGB, KGB, KGB all day long, no matter what the subject of the thread is

 

Paz,

 

You do realize, don't you that nowadays it's no longer the called "KGB," because back in the early 1990s, those nice people in the Kremlin, seein' as how the Cold War was over (lol) and in the interest of establishing warmer relations with the West (lol), decided to split the KGB up (lol) and renamed the old First Chief Directorate (specializing in foreign intelligence) the "SVR," and started calling the old Second Chief Directorate (specializing in internal intelligence) the "FSB".

Regardless, Paz, why do YOU think the bad guys (and gals) let Oswald kinda wander around outside the building while the shots were being fired?

Got any thoughts on that?

 

--  TG

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Sandy Larsen]

The primary purpose of the assassination was to eliminate national security threat John F. Kennedy. There was no patsy necessary to accomplish that. So for that purpose, it didn't matter what Oswald did that day.

The secondary purpose of the assassination was to implicate Cuba and Russia in the assassination, to create a pretext for war. Patsy Oswald was needed for this purpose because it was his alleged Mexico City trip that tied Russia and Cuba to the assassination. In this case it theoretically wasn't necessary for Oswald to be present during the shooting. Other conspirators shot the Mauser and Carcano and killed Kennedy. (That is to say, that is what the plotters expected the police to discover.)

President Johnson didn't bite on the Cuba/Russia conspiracy angle. He decided that Oswald acted alone... regardless of what the evidence indicated.

(IMO)

 

[David Andrews]

Oz had boss Bill Shelley beside him in the TSBD entrance alcove, for babysitting purposes.  Plus the similar-looking, similarly dressed guy for deception.  Plus the guy who claimed he brought curtain rods to work.  Then the boss and the similarly-dressed guy took off down the street, figuring he'd be shot inside within minutes.  Later the big boss and the motor cop made up the lunchroom story to alibi the DPD for not finding Oz and shooting him.

The point may have been to have Oz in a definite place during the shooting, then to abandon him to the DPD, which failed to respond en force and take him out.  Oz may have smelled the wind of all this afterward and left the TSBD.  Nobody would have cared about a few witnesses on the steps, whose names would be lost to history for 30 years - and, de facto the MSM, still are lost.  Witnesses can be discounted, or  bribed, or threatened, or worse.  Who would stick up for the Marxist defector too dumb to call in sick that day, or who was ordered to attend?

Nobody surrounding Oz on the steps stayed by him to alibi him, or spoke up for him afterward.  Not Bill Shelley, who was babysitting him earlier in front of the New Orleans Trade Mart.  Maybe Bill Shelley bought him that Coke.  Is that what Prayer Man's holding - later becoming a meme in the lunchroom fabrication?    

Edited April 7, 2018 by David Andrews

[B. A. Copeland]

Hmm...going off of an Occams Razor response to the topics’ question, perhaps, just as with LHO surviving probably much longer than the planners anticipated (or planned)...well...the plotters cannot possibly control every aspect of even their own plan and so LHO most resembled a slipper eel on 11/22 much to the annoyance and chagrin of the plotters. I think we can probably highlight at least a few error or mistakes that day. I believe we can at least speculate on what they may have been.

This guy leaves the preselected crime scene, gets captured, talks for hours, loudly and clearly says he’s a patsy, is seen (and not seen, to his own benefit mind you) by others....you name it. I would argue that this fascinating 24 year old was probably THE most lucky and unluckiest human being on planet earth that very day....

As as a side note I’d like to mention that I am speculating and could be wrong.

Edited April 7, 2018 by B. A. Copeland

[Thomas Graves]

4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

  .....

The secondary purpose of the assassination was to implicate Cuba and Russia in the assassination, to create a pretext for war. Patsy Oswald was needed for this purpose because it was his alleged Mexico City trip that tied Russia and Cuba to the assassination. In this case it theoretically wasn't necessary for Oswald to be present during the shooting. 

  .....

 

Sandy,

 

Are you ready for some double negatives and a properly used *gerund with a personal pronoun or name* (which, by the way, I bet even your linguistically gifted wife doesn't use correctly, although that Russian-speaking Hungarian boy, "Harvey," somehow "had down cold")?

If, before the assassination, the bad guys knew that after the assassination they might be faced with *Oswald's having* been photographically captured outside the building during the shooting, how then could they proceed with confidence that they wouldn't be eventually "found out," if you'll forgive the British English and the unintentional pun?

 

--  TG

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Michael Clark]

19 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

 

Sandy,

 

Are you ready for some double negatives and a properly used *gerund with a personal pronoun or name* (which, by the way, I bet even your linguistically gifted wife doesn't use correctly, although that Russian-speaking Hungarian boy, "Harvey," somehow "had down cold")?

If, before the assassination, the bad guys knew that after the assassination they might be faced with *Oswald's having* been photographically captured outside the building during the shooting, how then could they proceed with confidence that they wouldn't be eventually "found out," if you'll forgive the British English and the unintentional pun?

 

--  TG

 

Tommy, Are you trying to suggest that LHO could not have been involved with any plan where he was supposed to be on the 6th floor, at the time of the assassination, because he was not on the 6th floor at the time of the assassination? Or, are you trying to suggest that LHO was not out in front of the TSBD, at the time of the assassination, because he was involved in the plot, and could not have been anywhere but on the 6th floor, or the assassination would have been called-off? Tommy, do you think that the plotters would rely entirely on someone like LHO being in-place for the whole operation to proceed? Tommy, do you realize that your above post is asking the same question as the thread title?

[Thomas Graves]

26 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Tommy, Are you trying to suggest that LHO could not have been involved with any plan where he was supposed to be on the 6th floor, at the time of the assassination, because he was not on the 6th floor at the time of the assassination? Or, are you trying to suggest that LHO was not out in front of the TSBD, at the time of the assassination, because he was involved in the plot, and could not have been anywhere but on the 6th floor, or the assassination would have been called-off? Tommy, do you think that the plotters would rely entirely on someone like LHO being in-place for the whole operation to proceed? Tommy, do you realize that your above post is asking the same question as the thread title?

 

Michael,

 

Do you think they would have allowed him outside during the alleged shooting of his one  carbine AND the actual shooting of scores of cameras?

 

--  TG

 

PS  Could not he have been innocent and inside the building during the shots?

Could not PM have been Sarah Stanton, and the sooner we realize that probability enable us to proceed with figuring out whether or not Shelly and Lovelady were "captured" walking down Elm Street Extension in Couch-Darnell, and when Marion Baker entered the TSBD front door, etc?

 

--  TG

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Michael Clark]

2 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

 

Michael,

 

Do you think they would have allowed him outside during the alleged shooting of his one  carbine AND the actual shooting of scores of cameras?

 

--  TG

 

Tommy, Who could have stopped him from coming down to watch the motorcade, or have a drink, or eat a sammich?

[David Andrews]

2 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

Tommy, Who could have stopped him from coming down to watch the motorcade, or have a drink, or eat a sammich?

Bill Shelley, who was his handler in front of the New Orleans Trade Mart, could have kept him from emerging from the shadows.

Edited April 7, 2018 by David Andrews

[Thomas Graves]

1 hour ago, Michael Clark said:

Tommy, Who could have stopped him from coming down to watch the motorcade, or have a drink, or eat a sammich?

 

Michael,

 

How about watch the motorcade AND drink a coke-cola down on Elm Street, say close to where Peggy Burney and Gloria Calvery and John Templin and his new buddy, Ernest Brandt, were standing?

Do you think they would have let him do that?

 

--  TG

 

[Michael Clark]

2 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

Bill Shelley, who was his handler in front of the New Orleans Trade Mart.

Hi David, If LHO had decided to go off script, or not cooperate, I don't think Shelly could have stopped LHO from doing-so. Simply barking orders at LHO would not necessarily get LHO to comply if he wanted to bail-out. Heck, Shelly was out front, so he could not have even held LHO, phicically, or at gun point, in the building.

[David Andrews]

Bill Shelley, who was his handler in front of the New Orleans Trade Mart, could have kept him from emerging from the shadows, perhaps only by power of suggestion because he himself, and Frazier, and for the most part Lovelady, didn't go down to the street.

Time to start thinking about why we see Shelley so close to Oswald twice.  I don't believe for a second that that's Beckham with Oswald by the Trade Mart.

Michael: it's follow-the-leader.  Shelley stayed in the alcove, so the others did, too.  Shelley probably went out to keep Oz from straying.  It hardly matters though: any evidence would have been suppressed, and - as others, including B. A. Copeland, have maintained - Oswald may have been the main focus for a scenario, but his may not have been the only scenario.  The main thing was killing JFK.

Edited April 7, 2018 by David Andrews

[Michael Clark]

2 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

 

Michael,

 

How about watch the motorcade AND drink a coke-cola down on Elm Street, say close to where Peggy Burney and Gloria Calvery and John Templin and his new buddy, Ernest Brandt, were standing?

Do you think they would have let him do that?

 

--  TG

 

Tommy, 

Do you think that, under the circumstances, LHO would have wanted to be out on Elm St.?