Joe Rogan takes on Arlen Specter

[Kishan Dandiker]

Nice to see this topic discussed by such a famous person (historically Rogan has always been against the Warren Commission and its conclusions). In particular, the last few minutes are devoted to Rogan’s attack on the magic bullet theory, with a slight mention in passing of James Teague. 
 

In relation to MKULTRA, I have never heard this claim before. Maybe some more knowledgeable on here than me can clear it up? 

[James DiEugenio]

Its true. 

As some people believe, West destabilized Ruby so he would appear to be a fruitcake and whatever he said would be discarded.  Many people think it got worse and worse. I don't know how accurate the ideas of Ruby as conveyed to West should be taken.

Dulles was not really the second in command on the WC, he was really the top gun.  As Walt Brown shows in his book The Warren Omission, Dulles was the single most active member of the Commission, even more than Warren.  And Dulles did plot with Helms behind the scenes--and Angleton probably--to disguise any connection of LHO with the CIA. And the HSCA did conclude that the weight of the evidence indicated that Ruby stalked LHO, and he did not come down the Main Street ramp. The DPD, in the form of Dean, lied about the entry into the basement.  

 

BTW,  who is this guy?

 

 

 

[Kishan Dandiker]

19 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Its true. 

As some people believe, West destabilized Ruby so he would appear to be a fruitcake and whatever he said would be discarded.  Many people think it got worse and worse. I don't know how accurate the ideas of Ruby as conveyed to West should be taken.

Dulles was not really the second in command on the WC, he was really the top gun.  As Walt Brown shows in his book The Warren Omission, Dulles was the single most active member of the Commission, even more than Warren.  And Dulles did plot with Helms behind the scenes--and Angleton probably--to disguise any connection of LHO with the CIA. And the HSCA did conclude that the weight of the evidence indicated that Ruby stalked LHO, and he did not come down the Main Street ramp. The DPD, in the form of Dean, lied about the entry into the basement.  

 

BTW,  who is this guy?

 

 

 

From just finding out about him today, he seems to be promoting a new book on the Manson killings, in particular an attack on the ‘Helter Skelter’ theory proposed by Bugliosi. He’s very critical of him throughout the podcast. He also makes links between Manson and the CIA.

The stuff about Ruby is fascinating, mainly because it’s seldom talked about outside the research community. Didn’t Ruby’s lawyer end up dying in his 40’s after showing those reporters into Ruby’s apartment (Koethe and Hunter I think?)

Edited April 17, 2020 by Kishan Dandiker

[James DiEugenio]

This then is Dan Piepenring, the co author with Tom O'Neill of the book Chaos. I reviewed the book and it does give Bugliosi a well deserved pasting over the Tate/LaBianca case.

https://kennedysandking.com/reviews/vincent-bugliosi-tom-o-neill-quentin-tarantino-and-tate-labianca-part-1

Tom Howard, Ruby's first lawyer, died in March of 1965 of a heart attack. 

Ruby had taken him off the case though.

Edited April 17, 2020 by James DiEugenio

[Sandy Larsen]

I've always wondered why it was that Ruby said the odd things he did while under custody of the DPD. Now that MKULTRA is brought up, it makes a lot of sense that Ruby could have been under the influence of drugs. (Sorry Jim if that is in Destiny Betrayed. If so, I forgot. Ruby hasn't been the focus of my studies so far.)

I wonder if they used drugs to control Ruby in the short term, and induced cancer to control him long term. I know there are skeptics of cancer cells being injected, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the CIA experimented with that and related idea. Maybe their experiments failed in terms of causing a quick death, but were successful for long-term (months) applications.

 

[Ron Bulman]

Jim, I've never seen a picture of him but this has to be O'Neill himself.  He keeps saying I in he latter part where he's talking about Specter and living with his parents while writing his proposal.  This was before he partnered with Piepering.

He does skip over that he found West had approached Judge Joe Brown who had empaneled the jury that indicted Ruby requesting he be appointed his psychiatrist when Ruby was first arrested. West said somewhere in his notes that someone had asked him to do this, but not who.   Brown turned him down.  Ruby's new lawyer for his appeal after his murder conviction, himself a psychiatrist with a law degree also, brought West in. 

[James DiEugenio]

I wrote about the Ruby case at length in The JFK Assassination: The Evidence Today.

I did not go into West there though.  I probably should have.  

The Jack Ruby angle I think is underplayed a lot.  LIke with Oswald, there was a huge cover up about Ruby.  Not just by the Warren Commission but by more than one author e.g. Gertz, Wills, and of course Aynesworth.

[Anthony Thorne]

 

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

Ron:

I met with O'Neill, granted it was a while back, about 5 years ago.

But if that is him he has aged considerably, he did not have white hair.  And he did not wear glasses at that time.

PS I just noted the above post.  I guess he did age a lot and apparently his vision got worse, either that or he was not wearing glasses the night i met him.

Edited April 17, 2020 by James DiEugenio

[Ron Bulman]

9 minutes ago, Anthony Thorne said:

 

 

 

Woah.  Three hours worth.  I'll need to split it up.  Maybe an hour a day.  This must be mostly about Manson.  Though he likely mentions Od'ing the elephant.  It also probably covers West in Haight-Asbury in 1967 "overseeing" the safe house for anyone needing to crash.  The grad student's actually running it didn't know what to do.  West told them to have fun.  They said West and his associates were always stoned when they did occasionally show up.  

[Anthony Thorne]

The full interview has received nearly half a million views already, and will shift a lot more copies of O'Neill's book.

[James DiEugenio]

Its really a nice job he did on West.

As I said, Ruby has been relatively ignored compared to the work done on Oswald going back as far as Melanson, and forward to Armstrong and Newman.

None of the books on Ruby, save Seth Kantor's, is really worth reading or having.  And then what Steven King did with him in that crappy mini series, I mean my God. Please.  

Ruby has so many connections in so many different directions.  He was really the perfect guy to rub out Oswald.  Since you knew the DPD would have to cover it up.  And the WC actually bought this crap.  Sylvia Meagher did a nice job making mincemeat out of that. The guy who probably knew maybe 500 cops before the assassination, suddenly was without any pals on the DPD after.  As Meagher wrote, Ruby probably knew more cops in the basement the day he shot Oswald than the WC said he know on the entire force.  When you add in all the favors he did for them, which she also describes, this is why he was given free rein to wander all over the HQ that weekend, each day.

And mark no doubt, the WC did all they could to conceal those facts. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

This has over half a million views already.  And it really did help his book, its now in the top 300 at Amazon.  

 

It was not that high the last time I looked.

 

[Joe Bauer]

Laughable when DPD Chief Jesse Curry tells the media his department did an investigation survey and found only "25 to 50" of his men "even knew Jack Ruby."

My God, if it was only 5 it would be cause for concern!  But 50?

And even Curry knew it was way more. 

Carousel Club stripper Kathy Coleman ( stage name Kathy Kay ) hooked up with former DPD officer Harry Olsen while working for Ruby. When interviewed after the assassination Olsen eventually named other DPD officers as frequent Carousel Club visiting pals of Ruby. Olsen stated Officer Gerald Hill ( we all know him ) was the closest to Ruby and most frequent Carousel Club drop in. Even getting 6 packs of beer as a freebie now and then!

And as Jim mentioned another researcher's comment that Ruby probably knew that many DPD officers ( 25 ) just in the DPD building Oswald transfer security team on duty the morning of 11,24,1963 alone!

In his interrogation interviews and later court testimony Ruby mentions several officers by their last names that he knew by familiar sight ( Vaughn, Pierce, etc.)  regards his actions in the DPD basement that morning.

And within just feet of Ruby ( and Oswald ) when he bolted out to blast Oswald were another three DPD officers that knew him well.

Patrick Dean, Jim Leavelle and Big William "Blackie" Harrison who was a mere inches from Ruby for several seconds right up to Ruby's bolt and shooting.

Hundreds of DPD officers knew of Ruby's strip joint ( he was right downtown for years!) and it's a joke how many felt they had to personally "drop in" to "check on things" while the gorgeous hot babes were disrobing and grinding just feet away. Even motorcycle traffic control cops!

J.D. Tippett knew Ruby well.

Newbie to the DPD force Roscoe White married a former Ruby employee ( first name Geneva. ) There is a well known photo of Ruby checking out scantily clad Geneva in person that apparently is credible. Even if she was only just a "rail" girl who may have been paid under the table.  Perhaps same with Rose Cherami? Ruby didn't keep many payroll records to avoid stating true income for tax reasons.

Other Carousel drop-ins through out Ruby's years read like a Who's Who of Dallas society. People think raunchy strip joints only attract raunchy low life lechers? Ha!

Carousel employee Nancy Hamilton, when interviewed by Mark Lane in his documentary "Rush To Judgment", mentioned Dallas District Attorney Henry Wade himself as a Carousel Club drop-in.

Wade feigned ignorance of Ruby in his DPD press conference the night of 11,24,1963.

"I believe his name ( speaking of Jack Ruby) is a ... Jack Rubenstein?"

Please...what a ridiculously obvious act of lying distancing.

Ruby set men up with his girls.

Seth Kantor states in his book on Ruby that pimping was just another aspect of Ruby's criminal activities life besides gambling, running guns, and bag man for who knows who. And throw in an occasional side gig of FBI informant. 

Oddly, quirky Ruby was also known as somewhat a sandwich Santa providing bag fulls of these fresh made deli delights to various police friends and others from time to time.

Dallas in Ruby's heyday was a virtual vice playground with all levels of wealth, power and influence and even police dipping into it's sinful indulgence waters.

Gambling, strip joints, girls, guns, booze...you name it. Dallas was a "Swinging" town as they say.

Maybe Chief Curry didn't wet his whistle in this way ... but hundreds if not thousands of others sure did.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[Kishan Dandiker]

8 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Woah.  Three hours worth.  I'll need to split it up.  Maybe an hour a day.  This must be mostly about Manson.  Though he likely mentions Od'ing the elephant.  It also probably covers West in Haight-Asbury in 1967 "overseeing" the safe house for anyone needing to crash.  The grad student's actually running it didn't know what to do.  West told them to have fun.  They said West and his associates were always stoned when they did occasionally show up.  

Much of it is about Manson, however there’s a lot of good information about CIA activities at this time which is somewhat pertinent.

I remember hearing Oliver Stone on the JFK commentary talk about the fact the CIA were working on cancer weapons in the 60s. A scene with Ruby getting injected was cut, but the scene in the movie where he states ‘I want to tell my story, then, I want to leave this world’ is one of the most harrowing parts of the film.