The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[John Cotter]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Matt,

     I suspected, from day one, that the U.S. was involved in the Nordstream demolition, with the acquiescence of Norway and our EU allies.  Who else had the means and motive to de-fund Putin's mass murder machine?

    But John Cotter has had his panties in a bunch ever since Paul Rigby posted the Seymour Hersch article claiming that the demolition was a U.S. op.   And John has now posted at least ten redundant comments on the subject-- even claiming that the pipeline demolition was an act of "terrorism" by the God awful Yanks.

    What can we say about a guy like Cotter who is outraged about a strategic military pipeline demolition, to undermine a war criminal, while refusing to comment on Putin's historic war crimes and atrocities in Ukraine?  

     Cotter seems to have great empathy for gas pipelines and precious little for the suffering Ukrainians and massacred Russian conscripts in Ukraine.

    

William,

You’re talking nonsense as usual. It would take an age to go through all of it.

One example is this claim:

  “But John Cotter has had his panties in a bunch ever since Paul Rigby posted the Seymour Hersch article claiming that the demolition was a U.S. op.”

On 1st February I replied to Ron Bulman’s comment about the high price of gas as follows:

“Yep, those anti-Russian sanctions and the blowing up of the Nordstream natural gas pipeline have really worked a treat.”

That was a week before Chris Barnard – not Paul Rigby – posted the Seymour Hersch article.

When are you going to stop spamming the thread with your gibberish?

[Ron Bulman]

News Outlets Demand Access To Jan. 6 Footage Given To Tucker Carlson By Kevin McCarthy (msn.com)

[Benjamin Cole]

42 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

Just because I [correctly] deduced that you no longer own property in the US from the fact that you advocate a property tax to fund Social Security does NOT make it an ad hominem.

Ray Charles could see that connection, and he's not only blind but dead for several years now.

As I pointed out, EVERY human advocates for his/her own self-interest. It's not JUST you. It's EVERYONE.

When it comes to taxes, they are most successfully collected from people who HAVE the commodity being taxed. If you were to levy a tax on my yacht, my airplane, or my business, you'd collect nothing. I have no yacht, no airplane, no business.

Ask anyone who thinks SOMETHING should be taxed, what they believe should be taxed FIRST. I will wager that 99.9 times out of 100, that person will suggest something that they personally do NOT own. Like yachts. Like airplanes. Like second and third homes. 

If pointing out that particular common foible of human nature constitutes an ad hominem, then we might as well shut down everything here and go home. Because then EVERY comment becomes an ad hominem.

 

I disagree with you.

I support property taxes in principle, and many of my relatives own property in the US. I assume plenty of people are able to speak about the public interest, without conflating that with their own private interests. 

When other people argue for certain tax systems, I give them the benefit of the doubt, unless they are specifically identified with a group.

For example, I would expect someone from the American Farm Bureau Association, or from a veteran's group, to argue the case from the point of view of their organization. That's fine, that's democracy. 

I expect academics, journalists and ordinary citizens to rise above rank self-interest, and I give benefit of the doubt unless shown otherwise. 

If I move back to the US and buy property, I would still support property taxes. 

Property taxes are more easily collected, and far more transparent, than the entirely vaporous income tax system.

I am hardly a tax expert. But even I can tell you that "adjusted gross income" and globalization of enterprises (and thus employment) render income taxes, personal or corporate, an international shell game. 

There is no perfect tax system, and probably a heavier reliance on property taxes would generate new problems.

But right now, how much money you make is only loosely connected to how much US taxes you pay. There are either 40,000 pages or 70,000 pages in the US tax code, depending on who you believe. 

IMHO, we should grant each benefit of the doubt when discussing issues of the day. It sure makes for more pleasant and civil conversation. 

[Matt Allison]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

From the AP no less.

They must also be Russian stooges....

Good lord.

Ben- you're quoting an article written the day after the insurrection, 1/7/21; obviously written before we knew about the traitors at the Pentagon that lied about the coup:

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/06/jan-6-generals-lied-ex-dc-guard-official-523777

I think we all know that you want to blame anyone but Trump and the MAGAs for 1/6, but you probably shouldn't be this obvious about it.

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Matt Allison said:

Good lord.

Ben- you're quoting an article written the day after the insurrection, 1/7/21; obviously written before we knew about the traitors at the Pentagon that lied about the coup:

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/06/jan-6-generals-lied-ex-dc-guard-official-523777

I think we all know that you want to blame anyone but Trump and the MAGAs for 1/6, but you probably shouldn't be this obvious about it.

Matt:

I dunno. 

First day evidence (as we know from the JFKA) is interesting, as it is in before "the fix is in." 

That is, before narratives have crafted and perfected (although intel agencies often have pre-planned narratives at the ready before they create an event.

When Bush jr. "Bushies" stole the Ohio presidential vote in 2004, they gamed the system through absentee balloting, and they had at the ready a cover story about the "evangelical" vote. That is the view of Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and as much as I know, that appears true.

You are correct that I do not blame Trump for the scrum at the US Capitol on 1/6. I am open-minded about the causes therein.

It appears the two small groups most responsible for instigating the occupation---the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers---were heavily, heavily infiltrated by federal assets and informants and had no connection to Trump. I am not ruling out other provocateurs. 

I am uncomfortable with the 1/6 boob-tube show, and the "investigation" which in many ways mirrors the WC investigation: No defense counsel, no evidence submitted by objective parties or opposing counsel, inadmissible evidence in abundance, and endless conjecture passed as factual. Who selected the witnesses? Who crafted the narrative?

I do not dismiss your views as those of a biased Democrat.  I think you have a different view from me. 

 

 

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

1 hour ago, Matt Allison said:

Good lord.

Ben- you're quoting an article written the day after the insurrection, 1/7/21; obviously written before we knew about the traitors at the Pentagon that lied about the coup:

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/06/jan-6-generals-lied-ex-dc-guard-official-523777

I think we all know that you want to blame anyone but Trump and the MAGAs for 1/6, but you probably shouldn't be this obvious about it.

Ben: I dunno. 

First day evidence (as we know from the JFKA) is interesting, as it is in before "the fix is in." 

But what you're doing is a fix in itself. That's just plain misleading!

Thanks Matt, That's what I thought and Ben didn't address that. Ben, in the future If you're going to quote a 2 year old article that has since been researched in great detail. At least give us the date of the article.

Most reasonable people don't  accept that the more you research something. The less you know about it.

Or you yourself,  wouldn't be here at all.

.

Ben: On property taxes, I think they are a better idea than wage taxes. 

I am tempted to say, "never tax wages." Wages result from working. 

 

That doesn't sound like a "temptation" with  "everyday people" in mind.

"Wages result from working"  is somehow meant to sound noble, but is really rather arbitrary. Particularly in a country where a CEO can make 1000 times what his least paid worker makes.

While I agree, tax wise there are many ways to skin a cat. I do find , when it comes down to brass tacks, you don't really side with the "employee class" at all. What you always harp on is that that an employee is employed in the U.S.which is good, but you're never active in addressing inequities with the U.S. tax structure, where he or she could benefit.

You always have "let the free market decide"  solutions. Like starving the work force of workers to put pressure on wages. But even right now, we have almost 2 jobs for every person willing to work. And  wages have begun to level off.

Never a cigar for your employee class.

 

[Matthew Koch]

[Matt Allison]

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Ben: I dunno. 

First day evidence (as we know from the JFKA) is interesting, as it is in before "the fix is in." 

But what you're doing is a fix in itself. That's just plain misleading!

Thanks Matt, That's what I thought and Ben didn't address that. Ben, in the future If you're going to quote a 2 year old article that has since been researched in great detail. At least give us the date of the article.

Most reasonable people don't  accept that the more you research something. The less you know about it.

Or you yourself,  wouldn't be here at all.

.

Ben: On property taxes, I think they are a better idea than wage taxes. 

I am tempted to say, "never tax wages." Wages result from working. 

 

That doesn't sound like a "temptation" with  "everyday people" in mind.

"Wages result from working"  is somehow meant to sound noble, but is really rather arbitrary. Particularly in a country where a CEO can make 1000 times what his least paid worker makes.

While I agree, tax wise there are many ways to skin a cat. I do find , when it comes down to brass tacks, you don't really side with the "employee class" at all. What you always harp on is that that an employee is employed in the U.S.which is good, but you're never active in addressing inequities with the U.S. tax structure, where he or she could benefit.

You always have "let the free market decide"  solutions. Like starving the work force of workers to put pressure on wages. But even right now, we have almost 2 jobs for every person willing to work. And  wages have begun to level off.

Never a cigar for your employee class.

 

Kirk--

 I just addressed an iniquity in the tax code---the heavy taxes on wages/

Meanwhile, mortgage payments on property ownership are tax write-offs, and profits from sale are treated as capital gains (when not entirely exempted from taxes).  

The higher your tax bracket, the bigger those mortgage payment write-offs become. 

Oh come, Kirk. You are being contrary for the sale of contrariness. 

I think I make a valid point. If you disagree, fine. 

[Matt Allison]

Ben- I think the tricky thing with that idea is that in the U.S. property taxes are used to fund public schools. Which, in my opinion, is a horrible, unfair situation, as it means some kids, like mine for example, get an INCREDIBLE education, while others, say the kids in a poor neighborhood in Chicago, get shafted. Btw, If I told you what I pay in property taxes you would be aghast, believe me. It's bonkers.

Few things make me sadder than seeing this wealthy country of ours not giving all children the opportunity to receive an equally EXCELLENT education. It makes me sick to think about it.

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Matt Allison said:

Ben- I think the tricky thing with that idea is that in the U.S. property taxes are used to fund public schools. Which, in my opinion, is a horrible, unfair situation, as it means some kids, like mine for example, get an INCREDIBLE education, while others, say the kids in a poor neighborhood in Chicago, get shafted. Btw, If I told you what I pay in property taxes you would be aghast, believe me. It's bonkers.

Few things make me sadder than seeing this wealthy country of ours not giving all children the opportunity to receive an equally EXCELLENT education. It makes me sick to think about it.

I am happy to say we agree on something. Surely, a solid and safe education through grade 12 is a right. 

Like I said, no tax is perfect.

I recoil when I think about people making $10 an hour, and paying 14.4% Social Security-Medicare tax on that (their own 7.2% and then 7.2% from their employer).

My understanding is Illinois has problems with heavy taxes and government debts. For sure, you know 100 times as much about that as me. 

I wish only the best to Chicago and Illinois. 

In Italy a friend of mine complains no matter how much money is poured into the top of an administration, nothing comes out the bottom, in terms of results and services. 

Happily, this problem may afflict the Russian military too. 

 

[Matthew Koch]

Make sure you make it to the 6min mark for Woody's conspiracy script! 😝

 

[W. Niederhut]

Mathew Koch posted the wrong spam today, as usual.

IMO, this comedian does a much better Trump impersonation than Alec Baldwin. 😂

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

Make sure you make it to the 6min mark for Woody's conspiracy script! 😝

 

That may be a bit subtle at the end there, Matt. I am not sure some of the guys will ‘get it’. 
 

Good on Woody, you never would have heard that 6 months ago. 

[W. Niederhut]

8 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

That may be a bit subtle at the end there, Matt. I am not sure some of the guys will ‘get it’. 
 

Yeah, Chris, but fortunately, we have non-scientists like you and Mathew to explain the science to us, eh? 

Did you and Mathew ever pass Immunology 101 or Virology 101 when you were in medical school?

Geez... 🤥

Edited February 26, 2023 by W. Niederhut