The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, John Cotter said:

Benjamin, 

Unfortunately, Ireland is very much a vassal state of the US empire as well as, of course, one of the smallest members of the EU. 

The Irish economy is grossly overdependent on investment by multinational corporations, especially pharma and tech ones. 

Accordingly, politics, the media and public discourse largely echo the falsely simplistic manichean worldview of western propaganda. They are bought. 

Thus the "independence" Ireland won 100 years ago after 750 years of subjugation has been frittered away by generations of corrupt politicians elected by an authoritarian majority brainwashed firstly by monocultural Catholicism and latterly by neoliberalism, which has succeeded Catholicism as the state religion.

In summary, Ireland is just as fcuked up, if not more so, as the rest of the western world.

Thanks for your insights. 

The globalist-multinationalists certainly set the world stage today.

The world tune is that all languages, cultures, religions or nations must be driven under the globalist-commercial hoof, if they interfere with commerce. 

Aboriginal tribes in Canada can assert their right to preserve a culture (an easy and self-righteous give by globalists), but any First Worlder who tries that is branded a nativist bigot. 

I hope Ireland prevails. Maybe you still have good pubs. 

 

[Joe Bauer]

Some thoughts on the state of America. California anyway.

In most of our most populated states and especially urban areas we are "too" diverse.

Diverse culturally, ethnically, economically, socially, politically, linguistically, religiously, historically and on and on and on.

In too many important ways we've absolutely lost our commonality, imo.

I can only speak specifically however about California as I live here. I have lived here for 71 years.

Illegal immigration is so massive here it has totally changed everything about California in the last 40 years. Maybe 1/3rd (or more?) the state being 1st and second generation of this out-of-control migration flood?

With the Hispanic ethnic population being the clear majority here now.

Millions of these new immigrants speak Spanish as their main language. Anyone living in California now knows that half the state communicates in Spanish before English.

Not speaking Spanish is actually a communication handicap if you travel pretty much anywhere in the state outside of the higher income and very rural areas.

Hundreds of entire school systems are 90+ percent filled with 1st and second generation Hispanic children, mostly of illegal immigrant parentage. Thousands of schools. Millions of kids.

The same in most all other sections of our communities.

Jobs, Jails, hospital patients you name it.

Spanish is "not" a second language in half the state. English is.

But it isn't just the massive illegal Latino immigration flood that has so noticeably changed California's culture.

This state has always been a magnet for immigration ( illegal and legal ) for many other mostly poor people from different cultures. For decades.

California has millions of 1st, second and now 3rd generation Asian citizens. Chinese, Vietnamese, Pilipino, Indian, Korean, etc. etc.

California's African American population has shrunken in the last 30 to 40 years.

Surely because of the cost of living here which is now mind boggling and even criminally gouging high.

And California is also economically way too diverse.

A wealthy minority owns the majority of homes, properties, businesses and land.

The working, rent crushing class is the clear majority.

If you are a renter in California, you are typically a stressed out month-to-month living slave.

Everything cost "way more" in California than most other parts of the country. Besides rent...gas, utilities, taxes, food, health care ...almost everything. Crazy high.

Gas is well over $5 a gallon and has been for a long time with no price let up in sight.

California is for sure the leading economic stress state in the union.

Also, there is no more religious affiliation commonality here anymore.

The different immigrant culture and religious adherences are nothing like the old ones that dominated Californian society up until the 70's.

In the past the social term "diversity" has usually connotated a liberal, American welcome-to-all mind set.

But there is clearly an overkill point to this social reality.

California is "too" diverse now. In some ways out of control.

There is a social and cultural value confusion going on here. 

The one common bond however is how financially stressed the majority of non-home owning citizens are. Your neighbor may be Hispanic, Pilipino, Korean, Indian, Somoan, Chinese, Vietnamese, gender different, religiously different, politically different...but if you are living on the rent edge every month with them...you at least have "something" in common.

Poverty breeds fellowship in some ways eh?

Getting back to almost unbelievable out of control illegal immigration, you can't take in 25 people ( almost all dirt poor ) into a house built for 4 or 5  without the house falling apart due to the simple over-demand use. Plumbing, structural, parking, utility usage, cost of running and maintaining, loss of privacy, etc.

The house being a metaphor for the state of California.

It's infrastructure, it's social welfare programs system and budgets, it's policing and jails, hospitals, schools, all being stressed to breaking points with just way too many people flooding in and putting demands on the entire structure.

I really feel for the millions of children of illegals, who are suddenly thrown into housing situations like this and a world where they are financially way on the other side of the tracks versus other kids.

Where most of them come from, everyone is poor. You don't feel bad being poor if everyone you know and live among is poor too. But thrust into a world of not having the better things in life that they see all around them, certainly must breed resentment anger? Maybe even susceptibility to identifying with criminal gangs more than regular society?

Their illegal parents do not rise to middle class in their time usually. It takes being a second generation lift to that level if at all.

And top all this out of control legal and illegal immigration over population and ever growing economic diversity stress chaos with half a million homeless people camping in almost every major city and you have ...well... a societal mess unlike anything America has ever seen.

Oh, and throw in a super serious long term and ever growing water shortage crisis for all of Southern California and it's 25 million residents.

And one major added natural disaster stress like a massive earthquake devastating LA or the Bay Area...could trigger a societal breakdown unlike anything we could imagine. A huge and long term federal military intervention type event.

Sorry for the gloom and doom take on all this. 

But California is just in this reality space right now. 

Who knows what our future here holds.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Matthew Koch]

6 hours ago, John Cotter said:

The false official covid narrative in which China, the USA and the EU were complicit keeps unravelling.

Indeed,

John being a fan of Irish history it's rather funny to me that the extreme left keeps clinging to the Insurrection narrative, when compared to the 1916 Easter Rising Insurrection, it is very easy do discern that this was staged riot to disrupt congress from literally throwing out the problematic states with the 4am mystery votes, and did the opposite of what the media is saying it did and prevented Trump Admin from contesting the election.

I watched live streams on Youtube and DLive from inside of the Capital that day which is why I have always been unsupportive of the "Insurrection" narrative. 90+% of the Violence happened, happened  outside of the capital and looks like it came from Ray Epps and other provocateurs that seem to be undercover Feds.. The Oath Keepers and Proud Boy FBI informant revelations support that belief that a coordinated operation to whip up a riot aka a FEDsurrection is what happened that day.

The J6 event is eerily similar to Charlottesville riot and had the same extremist groups that historically have been infiltrated by FBI and other government agencies, that event was used to cast Trump as a White Supremest and had the same people now parroting the line on Tucker and Dominon parroted the "Good People" out of context. 

 

[Matthew Koch]

Wow more police were injured when radical leftist stormed the White House and attempted to burn down St Johns Church. Then when the Secret Service as a result put the president into a safety bunker as a result, people like @W. Niederhut@Matt Allison@Kirk Gallawaycalled Trump a "Bunker B**ch" for not allowing the mob to kill him, meanwhile these same people will act like they are moral supremacists and that anyone who supports Donald Trump is literally a Fascist 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Matthew Koch

[John Cotter]

28 minutes ago, Matthew Koch said:

Indeed,

John being a fan of Irish history it's rather funny to me that the extreme left keeps clinging to the Insurrection narrative, when compared to the 1916 Easter Rising Insurrection, it is very easy do discern that this was staged riot to disrupt congress from literally throwing out the problematic states with the 4am mystery votes, and did the opposite of what the media is saying it did and prevented Trump Admin from contesting the election.

I watched live streams on Youtube and DLive from inside of the Capital that day which is why I have always been unsupportive of the "Insurrection" narrative. 90+% of the Violence happened, happened  outside of the capital and looks like it came from Ray Epps and other provocateurs that seem to be undercover Feds.. The Oath Keepers and Proud Boy FBI informant revelations support that belief that a coordinated operation to whip up a riot aka a FEDsurrection is what happened that day.

The J6 event is eerily similar to Charlottesville riot and had the same extremist groups that historically have been infiltrated by FBI and other government agencies, that event was used to cast Trump as a White Supremest and had the same people now parroting the line on Tucker and Dominon parroted the "Good People" out of context. 

 

You're right, Matthew. The 1916 Easter Rising was a real insurrection. Hundreds of people were killed, sixteen of the leaders were executed by the British before they had to stop because of public outrage in Ireland, Britain and America, thousands of rebels were imprisoned, and much of Dublin city centre was destroyed.

Compared to that, the Jan 6 shemozzle was a bit of a joke. It's funny how the official covid and Jan 6 narratives are both unravelling at about the same time. 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by John Cotter

[Matthew Koch]

37 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

You're right, Matthew. The 1916 Easter Rising was a real insurrection. Hundreds of people were killed, sixteen of the leaders were executed by the British before they had to stop because of public outrage in Ireland, Britain and America, thousands of rebels were imprisoned, and much of Dublin city centre was destroyed.

Compared to that, the Jan 6 shemozzle was a bit of a joke. It's funny how the official covid and Jan 6 narratives are both unravelling at about the same time. 

 

It just got worse, in the Proud Boy trial an FBI agent lied on the stand and admitted to concealing evidence, that there were criminal informants involved and the FBI destroyed evidence of their involvement!!!! 

 

[Andrew Prutsok]

1 hour ago, Matthew Koch said:

Wow more police were injured when radical leftist stormed the White House and attempted to burn down St Johns Church. Then when the Secret Service as a result put the president into a safety bunker as a result, people like @W. Niederhut@Matt Allison@Kirk Gallawaycalled Trump a "Bunker B**ch" for not allowing the mob to kill him, meanwhile these same people will act like they are moral supremacists and that anyone who supports Donald Trump is literally a Fascist 

 

And you don't think the radical leftists were infiltrated by the Feds? I would bet anything I could gather together that violence associated with the Occupy movement or "ANTIFA," was initiated by fed chaos agents.

They've always done that with left wing groups because they threaten the powers that be with their demands for a more equitable distribution of wealth.

What is their motivation for doing the same with groups like the Oathkeepers and Proud Boys? The wealthy ruling class doesn't want people violently advocating for lower taxes on the wealthy and less government regulation?

[Andrew Prutsok]

4 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Some thoughts on the state of America. California anyway.

In most of our most populated states and especially urban areas we are "too" diverse.

Diverse culturally, ethnically, economically, socially, politically, linguistically, religiously, historically and on and on and on.

In too many important ways we've absolutely lost our commonality, imo.

I can only speak specifically however about California as I live here. I have lived here for 71 years.

Illegal immigration is so massive here it has totally changed everything about California in the last 40 years. Maybe 1/3rd (or more?) the state being 1st and second generation of this out-of-control migration flood?

With the Hispanic ethnic population being the clear majority here now.

Millions of these new immigrants speak Spanish as their main language. Anyone living in California now knows that half the state communicates in Spanish before English.

Not speaking Spanish is actually a communication handicap if you travel pretty much anywhere in the state outside of the higher income and very rural areas.

Hundreds of entire school systems are 90+ percent filled with 1st and second generation Hispanic children, mostly of illegal immigrant parentage. Thousands of schools. Millions of kids.

The same in most all other sections of our communities.

Jobs, Jails, hospital patients you name it.

Spanish is "not" a second language in half the state. English is.

But it isn't just the massive illegal Latino immigration flood that has so noticeably changed California's culture.

This state has always been a magnet for immigration ( illegal and legal ) for many other mostly poor people from different cultures. For decades.

California has millions of 1st, second and now 3rd generation Asian citizens. Chinese, Vietnamese, Pilipino, Indian, Korean, etc. etc.

California's African American population has shrunken in the last 30 to 40 years.

Surely because of the cost of living here which is now mind boggling and even criminally gouging high.

And California is also economically way too diverse.

A wealthy minority owns the majority of homes, properties, businesses and land.

The working, rent crushing class is the clear majority.

If you are a renter in California, you are typically a stressed out month-to-month living slave.

Everything cost "way more" in California than most other parts of the country. Besides rent...gas, utilities, taxes, food, health care ...almost everything. Crazy high.

Gas is well over $5 a gallon and has been for a long time with no price let up in sight.

California is for sure the leading economic stress state in the union.

Also, there is no more religious affiliation commonality here anymore.

The different immigrant culture and religious adherences are nothing like the old ones that dominated Californian society up until the 70's.

In the past the social term "diversity" has usually connotated a liberal, American welcome-to-all mind set.

But there is clearly an overkill point to this social reality.

California is "too" diverse now. In some ways out of control.

There is a social and cultural value confusion going on here. 

The one common bond however is how financially stressed the majority of non-home owning citizens are. Your neighbor may be Hispanic, Pilipino, Korean, Indian, Somoan, Chinese, Vietnamese, gender different, religiously different, politically different...but if you are living on the rent edge every month with them...you at least have "something" in common.

Poverty breeds fellowship in some ways eh?

Getting back to almost unbelievable out of control illegal immigration, you can't take in 25 people ( almost all dirt poor ) into a house built for 4 or 5  without the house falling apart due to the simple over-demand use. Plumbing, structural, parking, utility usage, cost of running and maintaining, loss of privacy, etc.

The house being a metaphor for the state of California.

It's infrastructure, it's social welfare programs system and budgets, it's policing and jails, hospitals, schools, all being stressed to breaking points with just way too many people flooding in and putting demands on the entire structure.

I really feel for the millions of children of illegals, who are suddenly thrown into housing situations like this and a world where they are financially way on the other side of the tracks versus other kids.

Where most of them come from, everyone is poor. You don't feel bad being poor if everyone you know and live among is poor too. But thrust into a world of not having the better things in life that they see all around them, certainly must breed resentment anger? Maybe even susceptibility to identifying with criminal gangs more than regular society?

Their illegal parents do not rise to middle class in their time usually. It takes being a second generation lift to that level if at all.

And top all this out of control legal and illegal immigration over population and ever growing economic diversity stress chaos with half a million homeless people camping in almost every major city and you have ...well... a societal mess unlike anything America has ever seen.

Oh, and throw in a super serious long term and ever growing water shortage crisis for all of Southern California and it's 25 million residents.

And one major added natural disaster stress like a massive earthquake devastating LA or the Bay Area...could trigger a societal breakdown unlike anything we could imagine. A huge and long term federal military intervention type event.

Sorry for the gloom and doom take on all this. 

But California is just in this reality space right now. 

Who knows what our future here holds.

 

 

I'm not certain that "commonality" you refer too ever really existed, at least not to the extent we were all taught about The Great Melting Pot that was the United States in elementary school.

Immigrants, even the ones from the "Non-Shithole Countries," as the former president referred to them, took generations to fully assimilate. There were over 1,000 German language newspapers in the country in the 1890s, nearly 200 years after Germans started arriving on these shores and still 75 years after the great immigration wave of the 1820s. These papers lingered on, with most of them shutting down due to World War I but others limped along into the 1940s. In the 1880s there were 5 German language newspapers in Cincinnati alone.

I read once that the US was the fourth largest Spanish speaking country in the world. I don't know if that's true, but I bet we were once the second largest German speaking country in the world.

My point is that even the people most of us here would recognize as sharing "commonalities"  didn't come here and just automatically become good Americans. It took generations. Who's to say the experience of the Latinos -- documented and undocumented -- will be any different?

The economic despair you reference, too, is not unique to California. Here in Montana,  in the western part of the state, partly fueled by the popularity of the Yellowstone TV series, there has been a flood of wealthy people the last several years driving home and rent prices out of the range of normal people.  Many there are sleeping in cars campers.

Don't apologize for the doom and gloom. It's appropriate.

[Matthew Koch]

14 minutes ago, Andrew Prutsok said:

And you don't think the radical leftists were infiltrated by the Feds? I would bet anything I could gather together that violence associated with the Occupy movement or "ANTIFA," was initiated by fed chaos agents.

They've always done that with left wing groups because they threaten the powers that be with their demands for a more equitable distribution of wealth.

What is their motivation for doing the same with groups like the Oathkeepers and Proud Boys? The wealthy ruling class doesn't want people violently advocating for lower taxes on the wealthy and less government regulation?

There is a little bit of evidence for that, for example in Denver CO an FBI provocateur infiltrated groups and tried to whip up violence.. But when viewed in the bigger context it was insupportable of a Leftist Color Revolution against Donald Trump.. know as the George Floyd Riots where during a pandemic people were told to say home to stop the spread unless they were going to protest. 

I guess you would have to show supporting evidence for "Antifa" being just federal chaos agents (Like we have with Ray Epps), my time with Black Block anarchists proved to me that it was only people in leadership positions (Back in 08' Recreate 68 movement in Denver CO) and the rest where "Useful Idiots" who hated capitalism because they were drug addicts who had a chip on their shoulder for prior arrests and the felonies they received for those. 

 

 

[Andrew Prutsok]

Steve Landesberg and one of the Oswalds would infiltrate and disrupt left wing groups and gatherings.

[Matthew Koch]

 

[W. Niederhut]

13 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

So what does this thread accomplish, exactly? It would seem to me that it has become a garbage scow drifting toward the center of the ocean, rudderless, with the occupants on each side throwing the offal from their side toward the occupants on the other side, and the stench doesn't improve with age. 

...

So since no one wants to attempt to persuade others that they have a valid point -- most here are more than content to beat "them" over the head because they didn't side with "us" -- perhaps it's time for me to start ignoring this thread again until I get the next report for moderator intervention.

 

Mark,

      This is false equivalence.  There is, in fact, a fundamental difference in the veracity of claims made by those of us who are responding to the MAGA/Fox News disinformation here, and the MAGA spam itself.  It's not simply a food fight in which both sides are equally guilty of flinging offal.

      (For the record, I get my "news" from most of the same sources you do, including Axios.  I don't watch MSNBC, Fox, CNN, or any televised news.)

      Case in point.  Anyone who has studied the facts about Trump's January 6th coup attempt knows that Tucker Carlson's recent revisionist history of J6 -- and selective use of film clips-- is bunk.  Yet, we have had several pages of MAGA spam here this week extolling Tucker's BS, replete with comments from poorly informed members like Chris Barnard and John Cotter about how we Americans were duped into believing that the Trump MAGA mob had engaged in a violent attempt to obstruct the certification of Biden's election on January 6th!

      It's complete nonsense by our verbose Coalition of the Clueless-- Mathew Koch, Benjamin Cole, Chris Barnard, and John Cotter.

     In contrast, I have attempted this week to post some of the contrary evidence debunking Tucker Carlson's false revisionist history of January 6th.

     You are correct in pointing out that the Coalition of the Clueless is not really interested in studying the contrary evidence about J6, as we have seen in Benjamin Cole's case during the past year.

    For my part, I'm tired of trying to correct the fixed delusions of the MAGA/Fox crowd around here.

    Kirk, Matt Allison, and others have tried, without success.  Confirmation bias is a bitch.

    "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

    

Edited March 9, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Kirk Gallaway]

i make no allegations here. But another researcher here has brought to my attention the history concerning Chris's most quoted writer here,. Gustave Le Bon through just a quick researching that I suppose I could have done myself.

Here is an excerpt of his notes below.

Adolf Hitler is known to have read The Crowdand in Mein Kampf drew on the propaganda techniques proposed by Le Bon.

 

"my earlier sense that there was some European vaguely fascist ideology underlying ... there it is. 

From the wikipedia article on Le Bon: "George Lachmann Mosse claimed that fascist theories of leadership that emerged during the 1920s owed much to Le Bon's theories of crowd psychology. Adolf Hitler is known to have read The Crowdand in Mein Kampf drew on the propaganda techniques proposed by Le Bon.^[46][47] Benito Mussolinialso made a careful study of Le Bon..."

Here an article on Le Bon and Trumpism:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/07/trump-le-bon-mob/493118/

etc.

Dark view of the world as you note is right. 

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

i make no allegations here. But another researcher here has brought to my attention the history concerning Chris's most quoted writer here,. Gustave Le Bon through just a quick researching that I suppose I could have done myself.

Here is an excerpt of his notes below.

Adolf Hitler is known to have read The Crowdand in Mein Kampf drew on the propaganda techniques proposed by Le Bon.

 

"my earlier sense that there was some European vaguely fascist ideology underlying ... there it is. 

From the wikipedia article on Le Bon: "George Lachmann Mosse claimed that fascist theories of leadership that emerged during the 1920s owed much to Le Bon's theories of crowd psychology. Adolf Hitler is known to have read The Crowdand in Mein Kampf drew on the propaganda techniques proposed by Le Bon.^[46][47] Benito Mussolinialso made a careful study of Le Bon..."

Here an article on Le Bon and Trumpism:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/07/trump-le-bon-mob/493118/

etc.

Dark view of the world as you note is right. 

Thanks for posting this, Kirk. 
 

The best part about this post is that you are accidentally making the case that we should all read the book, something I encouraged yesterday. 
 

Think about it, it’s been a manual for understanding the popular mind and how people behave in a group. You’ve just named some of the most famous  effective propagandists in history. Learning how its done will help you identify when the techniques are being used on you. That was my primary reason for reading it.

I trust you’ll now be reading it to broaden your mind and understand things better? 🙂  You’re welcome. 

PS Its available for free as a PDF via a google search. I would recommend Edward Bernays and Walter Lippmann if you’re seeking to further your thinking in this area. 

[Matthew Koch]

1 hour ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

i make no allegations here. But another researcher here has brought to my attention the history concerning Chris's most quoted writer here,. Gustave Le Bon through just a quick researching that I suppose I could have done myself.

Here is an excerpt of his notes below.

Adolf Hitler is known to have read The Crowdand in Mein Kampf drew on the propaganda techniques proposed by Le Bon.

 

"my earlier sense that there was some European vaguely fascist ideology underlying ... there it is. 

From the wikipedia article on Le Bon: "George Lachmann Mosse claimed that fascist theories of leadership that emerged during the 1920s owed much to Le Bon's theories of crowd psychology. Adolf Hitler is known to have read The Crowdand in Mein Kampf drew on the propaganda techniques proposed by Le Bon.^[46][47] Benito Mussolinialso made a careful study of Le Bon..."

Here an article on Le Bon and Trumpism:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/07/trump-le-bon-mob/493118/

etc.

Dark view of the world as you note is right. 

Back to your old ways of attempting to smear forum members as (N)azis, I guess I shouldn't expect less since you were attacking me over my religion yesterday.. But we all know this is because you are losing the narrative battle and can't admit you are wrong.. So par for the course I suppose