The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Ron Bulman]

Edited September 8, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[Douglas Caddy]

Headline from the Washington Post:

Justice Dept. seeks to regain access to classified Mar-a-Lago documents

As they noted their plans to appeal, prosecutors said they must be able to access classified documents to determine if there are more to be found

[Douglas Caddy]

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Miles Massicotte said:

It is no coincidence that the proliferation of these kinds of technologies, increasingly encroaching upon our bodily privacy, have occurred simultaneously with the normalizing of the security state. The once feared FBI, CIA, and federal government have now been successfully propagandized as the "good guys", to such an extent never before seen in history that no major political party deigns to question their authority or allegiance. As Biden's press secretary recently said, anyone who has a belief against the majority opinion is an extremist.

I believe that a right to habeas corpus will increasingly become an "extremist" position, and the combination of state power, so-called technological progress, and corporate hegemony of individuals' personal information will lead to the domination a techno-fascist complex that threatens to eviscerate human rights as we know them.

This is the trajectory that we are on, technocracy, or scientific dictatorship, an idea that was popular in elite circles in the 1920’s and 30’s. Everything is sold as a benefit or progress, such as surrendering our privacy, our biometric data, and the propensity for misuse and an Orwellian situation increases daily. The scary thing is that kids spend more time at school than with their parents, meaning the state will propagandise and coerce them and normalise the loss of things like body autonomy. Children's brains are like sponges between 0 and 8 years old. Parents are apathetical about it all. There is a feeling of futility too. People are so weak, and addicted to the quick release of dopamine from entertainment and substances, that like drug addicts they’d rather do anything other than face reality. 

[Benjamin Cole]

46 minutes ago, Miles Massicotte said:

It is no coincidence that the proliferation of these kinds of technologies, increasingly encroaching upon our bodily privacy, have occurred simultaneously with the normalizing of the security state. The once feared FBI, CIA, and federal government have now been successfully propagandized as the "good guys", to such an extent never before seen in history that no major political party deigns to question their authority or allegiance. As Biden's press secretary recently said, anyone who has a belief against the majority opinion is an extremist.

I believe that a right to habeas corpus will increasingly become an "extremist" position, and the combination of state power, so-called technological progress, and corporate hegemony of individuals' personal information will lead to the domination a techno-fascist complex that threatens to eviscerate human rights as we know them.

Amen, in spades. 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

36 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

This is the trajectory that we are on, technocracy, or scientific dictatorship, an idea that was popular in elite circles in the 1920’s and 30’s. Everything is sold as a benefit or progress, such as surrendering our privacy, our biometric data, and the propensity for misuse and an Orwellian situation increases daily. The scary thing is that kids spend more time at school than with their parents, meaning the state will propagandise and coerce them and normalise the loss of things like body autonomy. Children's brains are like sponges between 0 and 8 years old. Parents are apathetical about it all. There is a feeling of futility too. People are so weak, and addicted to the quick release of dopamine from entertainment and substances, that like drug addicts they’d rather do anything other than face reality. 

Globalism has been sold this way too. 

The leading think tanks and academia are financed by multinationals, who of course are globalists--on their terms. 

https://cohengroup.net/what-we-do/regional-expertise/china

This is Bill Clinton's Secy of Defense, a lifelong Republican.

Now he is a leading member of the China Lobby. 

"Secretary Cohen's international expertise was recognized by his selection to the Board of Directors of the Council on Foreign Relations from 1989 to 1997, whose Middle East Study Group he chaired. He has chaired and served on numerous other study groups and committees at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, the School for Advanced International Studies, and the Brookings Institute."

Today Cohen says China is like Britain, France or Germany, you know, a competitor. 

On the EF, the obsession is with an orange-haired President, who was actually loathed by the establishment, and accordingly drummed out of office. 

Trump is the bent bonsai tree in a crooked  red(blue)wood forest. 

 

 

 

 

[Joe Bauer]

1 hour ago, Chris Barnard said:

This is the trajectory that we are on, technocracy, or scientific dictatorship, an idea that was popular in elite circles in the 1920’s and 30’s. Everything is sold as a benefit or progress, such as surrendering our privacy, our biometric data, and the propensity for misuse and an Orwellian situation increases daily. The scary thing is that kids spend more time at school than with their parents, meaning the state will propagandise and coerce them and normalise the loss of things like body autonomy. Children's brains are like sponges between 0 and 8 years old. Parents are apathetical about it all. There is a feeling of futility too. People are so weak, and addicted to the quick release of dopamine from entertainment and substances, that like drug addicts they’d rather do anything other than face reality. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Miles Massicotte said:

It is no coincidence that the proliferation of these kinds of technologies, increasingly encroaching upon our bodily privacy, have occurred simultaneously with the normalizing of the security state. The once feared FBI, CIA, and federal government have now been successfully propagandized as the "good guys", to such an extent never before seen in history that no major political party deigns to question their authority or allegiance. As Biden's press secretary recently said, anyone who has a belief against the majority opinion is an extremist.

I believe that a right to habeas corpus will increasingly become an "extremist" position, and the combination of state power, so-called technological progress, and corporate hegemony of individuals' personal information will lead to the domination of a techno-fascist complex that threatens to eviscerate human rights as we know them.

Amen In Spades 2.

[Joe Bauer]

1 hour ago, Miles Massicotte said:

It is no coincidence that the proliferation of these kinds of technologies, increasingly encroaching upon our bodily privacy, have occurred simultaneously with the normalizing of the security state. The once feared FBI, CIA, and federal government have now been successfully propagandized as the "good guys", to such an extent never before seen in history that no major political party deigns to question their authority or allegiance. As Biden's press secretary recently said, anyone who has a belief against the majority opinion is an extremist.

I believe that a right to habeas corpus will increasingly become an "extremist" position, and the combination of state power, so-called technological progress, and corporate hegemony of individuals' personal information will lead to the domination of a techno-fascist complex that threatens to eviscerate human rights as we know them.

True. Right in front of our eyes.

[Kirk Gallaway]

Hi Miles,

 

Miles to Ben: Is your point about Cohen that, as an old-school Republican, he should have been ideologically opposed to working with China? (Anti-communism, pro-Taiwan, etc.) 

Good question! but I'm not sure Ben even knows Cohen's a Republican, just a member of the Clinton "donk" globalists.

Miles:but his presidency was essentially a thorn in the paw for neoliberal global capitalists. I don't think he was some kind of revolutionary anti-establishment renegade like some claim, but some of his attitudes, particularly his condemnation of NATO, were untenable for the party elites.

I agree there was a lot of concern about Nato, but you're kind of barking up the wrong tree, talking to Ben about this. Ben  is the foremost forum NATO hawk, getting up on his soapbox and repeatedly demanding that Biden establish a NFZ at the very beginning of the Russia Ukraine war.

:Miles"For example, admitting openly that Syria was about the oil, something the Bush administration would have never dared admit about Iraq. So he was ostracized.)

Actually though Trump said that, Syria in fact doesn't have much oil! He was lambasted more for being inaccurate!. But many people have been talking for years about cutting the ties with the brutal corrupt Saudis, for example. That's nothing new. Bush was hardly going to make that point because his family was in bed with Saudi oil.

But I take your point.Some of Trumps stuff was novel, anti establishment and funny! But the reality of Trump was all of his major accomplishments are because of one person, Mitch Mac Connell. His tax cuts to the wealthy, his Supreme Court judges appointments, and their Citizen's United ruling, and now anti abortion ruling,and he almost came within one vote of dissolving the ACA. Which history has now  proved  would have been a great mistake.As many have signed on , and it's a popular program.

He really didn't accomplish much, he polarized the country and turned off a lot a people and not just the neo liberal globalists.  His appeal was a lot just telling his followers what they wanted they hear, that is by bloviating about culture war issues, but not delivering anything of real substance to them.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Kirk Gallaway

[W. Niederhut]

3 hours ago, Miles Massicotte said:

It is no coincidence that the proliferation of these kinds of technologies, increasingly encroaching upon our bodily privacy, have occurred simultaneously with the normalizing of the security state. The once feared FBI, CIA, and federal government have now been successfully propagandized as the "good guys", to such an extent never before seen in history that no major political party deigns to question their authority or allegiance. As Biden's press secretary recently said, anyone who has a belief against the majority opinion is an extremist.

I believe that a right to habeas corpus will increasingly become an "extremist" position, and the combination of state power, so-called technological progress, and corporate hegemony of individuals' personal information will lead to the domination of a techno-fascist complex that threatens to eviscerate human rights as we know them.

Miles,

     Who among us views the CIA and FBI as "good guys?"  Certainly not the vast majority of Boomers!  Our generation lived through the Cold War, Bay of Pigs, the JFK, MLK, and RFK assassinations, Civil Rights violence, the bombings of Southeast Asia by LBJ and Nixon, Watergate, Iran-Contra, and the Bush-Cheney "War on Terror" in Afghanistan and Iraq.  So most of us have always been generally suspicious about the CIA, FBI, and the police.

      We lived through COINTELPRO.  As an example, I'm reasonably certain that I was flagged by Bush and Cheney's No Fly watchlist after 9/11, for getting involved in a campus movement to Free Mandela back in the 70s.

      We were consistently lied to and manipulated by our own mainstream media for decades. 

     And JFK was the last POTUS who really tried to take on the Deep State and the military industrial complex.  Every subsequent POTUS has cooperated with the military industrial complex, to varying extents.

     As for recent FBI issues, James Comey and the FBI played a major role in helping Trump get elected in 2016.  They leaked weekly rumors about Hillary's Emails to the media in the months prior to the election, then announced an FBI "investigation" of Anthony Weiner's laptop one week before the election, dramatically altering the polls.

     Later, Trump actively tried to blame the FBI for belatedly investigating his 2016 campaign contacts with Kremlin assets.  He tried to blame Obama, ("Spy-gate") Sally Yates, then James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Robert Mueller, etc.-- all the while actively denying that Putin had interfered in our election to install Trump in the White House.

     Now the Trump cult is enraged at the FBI for confiscating Trump's illegal trove of classified documents from Mar-a-Lago., while remaining mostly silent about Trump's January 6th coup attempt and his co-conspirators in the Secret Service, DHS, and Pentagon.

     If you're truly concerned about fascism in the U.S., the Trump cult is the closest we've come to that disaster.

     I agree with your point about our corporate globalist plutocracy, but the "extremists" in the Trump cult that Biden expressed concerns about recently are, basically, white nationalist fascists-- the people threatening and/or attacking our government institutions-- the Congress, (on January 6th) state houses, election officials, etc.

     

     

      

[Matt Allison]

1 hour ago, Miles Massicotte said:

We have noticed that the day care emphasizes "values" such as filing in line, waiting exact specified amounts of time (you have to wait 4 minutes for lunch....3 minutes....etc.), and obeying the teacher's authority.

Go hang out for a while with a kid who hasn't been taught to not be an a**hole in civilized society, then come back and tell us you still think education is awful.

[Benjamin Cole]

4 hours ago, Miles Massicotte said:

Ben, I agree completely with you re: globalism, and this forum's misguided hatred of Trump.

Is your point about Cohen that, as an old-school Republican, he should have been ideologically opposed to working with China? (Anti-communism, pro-Taiwan, etc.) 

(For what it's worth, might as well post it here: In my opinion Trump is a bigot who deserves to be condemned for what he is, but his presidency was essentially a thorn in the paw for neoliberal global capitalists. I don't think he was some kind of revolutionary anti-establishment renegade like some claim, but some of his attitudes, particularly his condemnation of NATO, were untenable for the party elites. But even more so, he continually tipped their hand, "saying the quiet part out loud" as the kids these days say. For example, admitting openly that Syria was about the oil, something the Bush administration would have never dared admit about Iraq. So he was ostracized.)

Miles-

Sure, what you said, and a lot more.

No cheap labor from Mexico? Tariffs on the China imports? 

On Cohen, my point is more that the Donks and old guard 'Phants have merged, certainly in foreign-military-trade policies.  Globalism first and last, principles not on the radar. 

Also, Cohen was the embodiment of the establishment, and here he is a leading member of the China Lobby. 

When it comes to China, the regrettable Trump is much more trustworthy than the much lionized William Cohen. 

Cohen: Taking money from the same people who gave $5 million to the Biden family. 

As I always say, none of this makes Trump anything other than a bombastic boor. 

But what Glenn Greenwald says is true: The M$M, the Donks and the Deep State have merged. 

Keep posting. You are a breath of fresh air here. Sometimes I try to link what happens today to what happened in the JFKA.

Even if we disagree on certain topics, I always enjoy intelligently presented alternative views. 

 

 

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Miles Massicotte said:

Chris, I have a 2 year old who has just started day care at the moment. It is basically a state entity, affiliated with the university I work at. We have noticed that the day care emphasizes "values" such as filing in line, waiting exact specified amounts of time (you have to wait 4 minutes for lunch....3 minutes....etc.), and obeying the teacher's authority. They also do academics, but they seem to be largely sensory based, i.e. identify this texture (soft, crumpled, etc.) Values that seem to be missing include actual human to child interaction, encouraging creative thinking, comprehension and understanding (why is the plane high in the sky?), and elementary skills like letters and numbers. I think they start them young.

This is an interesting topic. 

I am old enough to be in an age group where the debate was whether kids should go to kindergarten or not. Many did not and simply went to first grade.

My parents were progressive liberals, so I went to kindergarten (I liked it). 

Later came pre-school (Head Start), and then even earlier. 

There are debates, but no real substantial results seen from all this expensive earlier education. 

I completely understand that many households now require two employees to hold onto a middle-class lifestyle, that was usually obtainable for one working parent back in the 1950s and 1960s. 

So there is a market for daycare. 

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

Go hang out for a while with a kid who hasn't been taught to not be an a**hole in civilized society, then come back and tell us you still think education is awful.

As per usual Matt, you only see absolutes. Its another emotional response. I don’t think Miles is suggesting that zero education is the way forward, only that there may be changes or trends that are changing in schooling and academia that are worrying some. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Miles Massicotte said:

Chris, I have a 2 year old who has just started day care at the moment. It is basically a state entity, affiliated with the university I work at. We have noticed that the day care emphasizes "values" such as filing in line, waiting exact specified amounts of time (you have to wait 4 minutes for lunch....3 minutes....etc.), and obeying the teacher's authority. They also do academics, but they seem to be largely sensory based, i.e. identify this texture (soft, crumpled, etc.) Values that seem to be missing include actual human to child interaction, encouraging creative thinking, comprehension and understanding (why is the plane high in the sky?), and elementary skills like letters and numbers. I think they start them young.

John Taylor Gatto, who I think was New York educator of the year or something, has written a great book that covers some of this topic. It’s called “weapons of mass instruction: a school teachers journey through the dark world of compulsory schooling.” This was written pre-C19 and we’ve seen plenty more changes since. 
 

Anyone worth their salt should really look at and understand the impacts of teaching obedience and compliance, as well as using methods such as classical or operant conditioning on children. 
The Prussian style education system that we use in the west was one of the reasons cited for the disasters of the twentieth century, including WW1 and 2. German children were heavily conditioned to be obedient and compliant, with loyalty to the state over anything. It enabled government to get them to justify and carry out any acts. It was the students who burned the books, not the party. 

We should all be worried if the state is assuming ownership of children's minds and taking that away from parents. I was pretty appalled that in Washington DC that laws were being passed to allow children to bypass their parents consent regarding V’s. In fact their parents didn’t need to know about it. Regardless of whether you agree with the procedure, the bigger picture is that it sets a precedent for the state to enable consent for children to take whatever they deem suitable. They’re condoning children lying to their parents. As if minors consenting is acceptable. 

It already seems like society is being sleep walked into technocracy, the idea imagined by HG Wells, Huxley, Orwell, CS Lewis etc.