W. Niederhut Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 4 hours ago, Mark Knight said: The Republicans have demagogued the subject of the national debt. I used to be a daily listener to Rush Limbaugh. Started in the Clinton presidency. When there was a Democrat in the White House, the national debt was not just BAD, but EVIL. But when George W. Bush was elected, suddenly the national debt wasn't such a big deal; Limbaugh simply said, "We'll pay it back with fiat money, letting inflation make the money we use to pay it back worth less than the debt when it was incurred. Then Obama was elected. And the national debt was suddenly EVIL again. That's about the time I stopped listening to Limbaugh. I realized he was less about conservative principles and all about Republican politics, despite his protestation to the contrary. Indeed. The Republican (and Tory) "Both Siderists" on the national debt issue simply don't know their history. Bill Clinton and the Democrats dramatically reduced the growth rate of the Reaganomic national debt from 1993-2001 by raising the top income tax rate in 1993. (See chart below) Dubya Bush and Dick Cheney inherited a budgetary surplus and U.S. national debt of only $5 trillion from Bill Clinton in January of 2001-- and had very realistic prospects of paying off the U.S. national debt, as Alan Greenspan, himself, noted in his memoir, A Time of Turbulence. Instead, Bush and Cheney recklessly cut the top income tax rate in 2001 and 2003, and DOUBLED the national debt in eight years-- arguing that "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." And the $10 trillion Bush/Cheney national debt in January of 2009 was further magnified after 2009 by the widespread bank failures/bailouts, Great Recession, and the Bush/Cheney Afghanistan and Iraq War debts. The situation stabilized during Obama's tenure. Then Trump and the Koch Republicons, once again, cut the top income tax rate, and corporate taxes in 2017. The U.S. national debt increased by $8 trillion during Trump's disastrous four-year presidency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 7 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said: Yes, or they never remembered it. The average voter doesn't have a lot on the ball. People think in short term, and right now the headlines are about the effects of inflation. The Republicans are trying to paint the Democrats as too insulated to care about it, and that general message works well, as you can already see with Ben. They can also say that Biden at the beginning of the year, at first said inflation was just a blip, But then you had Putin invade Ukraine and set off oil prices. I don't think the public perception would be half what it is right now, if that didn't happen. But he should take credit for record unemployment. Even though the people who have most benefited from that are not particularly good voters. He also busted the pharmaceutical companies to allow collective bargaining for Prescription Drugs, which you would think would go well with the elderly Fox voter demographic, but they don't vote in their interests. That's why the Dems should get Bernie to go on Fox. He did very well there, the last time when he was running for President. Because if those viewers don't particularly feel the Bern, they do feel the burn! heh heh Why isn't he? Also midwest centrist Democrats in purple states like Klobuchar. The only one whose doing that now is Buttigieg , who comes off much more impressive than the great majority of their guests. The Republicans are trying to paint the Democrats as too insulated to care about it, and that general message works well, as you can already see with Ben.--Kirk Yes, HRC and Nancy Pelosi, Kamala Harris and Joe Biden---they all worked their way up from the shop floor, or were farm hands, and then rose (or declined?) in politics, always eschewing material creature comforts, and living as the vast majority of their fellow Americans do. Well, no. The GOP may even be worse. Kirk! Our leadership classes are insulated. Cocooned. Rich. Engaged in legal grifting. If they do not start off rich, they end up that way (see the Obama's house in Martha's Vineyard. It looks like a medium-sized hotel). Sure, anybody can get $4.8 million from China companies linked to the People's Liberation Army, for doing no work, like the Biden family did. Things are so tight in the Clinton household that HRC is cleaning her own toilets and clipping coupons to save on her Rice-a-Roni purchases. HRC has even sworn off $700 hairdos. Sacrifices! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 9 hours ago, Matt Allison said: Most Americans are massively misinformed and don't even realize it. The GOP effort to Make America Stupid has been wildly successful. Top that off with privileged white millennials thinking voting is passe, while inbred MAGAs treat governing like it's pro wrestling, and there you go. And, incredibly, our most vocal local MAGAt, Ben Cole, still hasn't figured out that the Trump/Koch GOP is the opposite of a populist party. It's false conscioussness. For example, Ben misinterprets the Trump GOP's fascist fear mongering about dark-skinned immigrants as advocacy for American workers! Some guys are slow learners. Does Ben really think that the current covert GOP plan to force cuts to Social Security and Medicare is in the interest of the downtrodden American working class? Has Ben studied the historic relationship between U.S. poverty, Social Security, and the Kennedy's Medicare legislation? The truth is that the Trump/Koch GOP is the party of Robber Barons. Their top priority now is to protect the 2017 Trump/GOP tax cuts for billionaires, and to "starve the beast." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 7 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: And, incredibly, our most vocal local MAGAt, Ben Cole, still hasn't figured out that the Trump/Koch GOP is the opposite of a populist party. It's false conscioussness. For example, Ben misinterprets the Trump GOP's fascist fear mongering about dark-skinned immigrants as advocacy for American workers! Some guys are slow learners. Does Ben really think that the current covert GOP plan to force cuts to Social Security and Medicare is in the interest of the downtrodden American working class? Has Ben studied the historic relationship between U.S. poverty, Social Security, and the Kennedy's Medicare legislation? The truth is that the Trump/Koch GOP is the party of Robber Barons. Their top priority now is to protect the 2017 Trump/GOP tax cuts for billionaires, and to "starve the beast." W- Try for a collegial, conversational style. I would hope denigrating colleagues in the JFKA EF is beneath you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: Their top priority now is to protect the 2017 Trump/GOP tax cuts for billionaires, and to "starve the beast." They are doing a good job of it. My investment retirement accounts lost about 1/7th of their value the last two quarters combined. Record profits for oil=gasoline and natural gas=electricity which fuel inflation are squeezing me. Greed. Edited October 19, 2022 by Ron Bulman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 Everyone will know exactly how much the GOP cares about inflation based on their response to this merger: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/18/us-lawmakers-set-hearing-on-kroger-grocery-mega-merger.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Koch Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said: W- Try for a collegial, conversational style. I would hope denigrating colleagues in the JFKA EF is beneath you. Don't sweat it Ben, they're feeling the heat of losing the Midterms, and are getting desperate. I see it as grasping for straws. These cliche's don't apply and are simply just "Willie Horton" rhetoric. "dark-skinned immigrants" William leaves out the context changing word "illegal". Which changes the context of the framing, hence it's not accurate and at worst it's dishonest. Conservative people don't care about legal immigrants, BECAUSE those types of immigrants tend to have skilled jobs, pay taxes, don't break laws and because of that tend to vote conservative. I like how William goes for the knock out/disqualification instead of making a better argument similar to a polemic. Just tell him to direct that energy to me "Some guys are slow learners." LOL I'll take the kOcHgOp cliches... "the Kennedy's Medicare legislation?" Would the "Kennedy's Medicare legislation" have considered Abortion or Trans Children "Health Care"? I doubt it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Koch Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Chris Barnard said: Hands on leadership. 🙈 This is like Inflation, when it's done by a person on their team Democrats don't have a problem with it. If Trump did this it would be 24/7 coverage. Biden Admin could do the same things the prior Administration did with Oil and bring the cost down which would have a positive effect on inflation. But that's not the Agenda.. Edited October 19, 2022 by Matthew Koch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, Matthew Koch said: This is like Inflation, when it's done by a person on their team Democrats don't have a problem with it. If Trump did this it would be 24/7 coverage. Biden Admin could do the same things the prior Administration did with Oil and bring the cost down which would have a positive effect on inflation. But that's not the Agenda.. It seems to me that this is an exercise in emptying the coffers of the middle class and poor, making people state dependant, collapsing the whole thing to a timeline and ushering in a new system, that they’ll market as good for us but, it’ll be way way worse, more unequal, technocracy. There are plenty that believe this is just poor decision after poor decision but, unforeseen circumstance after unforeseen circumstance. How long until that wears thin? Has anybody looked at Executive Order 14067? Did it catch anyones attention in the USA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said: W- Try for a collegial, conversational style. I would hope denigrating colleagues in the JFKA EF is beneath you. Well, I should probably tone down the criticism, Ben, but these are things that really matter. It galls me to see the Republicans, once again, conning the public into voting against their own interests. How many middle and working class Republican voters realize that the top GOP priorities for the next Congress are to protect the Trump/GOP tax cuts for billionaires and force cuts in Medicare and Social Security by refusing, as in 2011, to raise the debt ceiling? Do you understand the Koch/GOP "Starve the Beast" strategy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said: Does Ben really think that the current covert GOP plan to force cuts to Social Security and Medicare is in the interest of the downtrodden American working class? The problem is Ben, you can't see beyond your nose. You're tough talking here, all the while you've said in the past "but for the grace of God go all of us". i suppose it's just beyond any possibility that you'll find yourself coming back to the country you were born in and try to collect Social Security or Public assistance and find it's not there, or cut by drastic amount. But even if that doesn't happen in your life. You shouldn't begrudge your contemporaries and others of us from collecting out of what we've put in all of our lives. 1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said: The truth is that the Trump/Koch GOP is the party of Robber Barons. Their top priority now is to protect the 2017 Trump/GOP tax cuts for billionaires, and to "starve the beast." Ok, you can argue , you don't vote. So it doesn't matter. But your choice in this issue is clear and you're confusing it with your usual, globalism and deep state foreign polices and hated personalities, but you should really be more informed. There is a real conspiracy, a formidable, well financed group of wealthy people whose aim it is to bring down the "administrative state"to a level before you were born and this danger is greater now than it's ever been during our lives. And your refusal to really look and listen to others just plays right into their plans, and you end up betraying all the sympathies you're always proclaiming for the little guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said: They are doing a good job of it. My investment retirement accounts lost about 1/7th of their value the last two quarters combined. Record profits for oil=gasoline and natural gas=electricity which fuel inflation are squeezing me. Greed. Why waste my time to get buried quickly. Greed got us from JFK to now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said: Well, I should probably tone down the criticism, Ben, but these are things that really matter. It galls me to see the Republicans, once again, conning the public into voting against their own interests. How many middle and working class Republican voters realize that the top GOP priorities for the next Congress are to protect the Trump/GOP tax cuts for billionaires and force cuts in Medicare and Social Security by refusing, as in 2011, to raise the debt ceiling? Do you understand the Koch/GOP "Starve the Beast" strategy? W- Yes, you have opposing views to many of your countrymen. I suspect both political parties of carrying water for financial and global elites. We probably differ in our views regarding the Deep State. My view is the D-Party, the M$M and the Deep State have merged into a blob. They have somewhat supplanted the Old Guard/GOP-Deep State/Establishment Media axis. The new populist wing of the 'Phants has many shortcomings---but is curiously unaligned with the Deep State or the globalists. Trump is another oddity---whatever you may think of Trump, he was the first President since JFK not to be cowed or aligned with or by the Deep State. This may be because Trump was so egocentric he did not want anyone ever to tell him what to do, he had delusions of global peace as effected by Trump, or he was bored with daily defense briefings in which he was not the center of conversation, or any other number of eccentricities. So be it. I suspect the Deep State had long knives out for Trump from even before his President, and they hardly hid it. You do not. So, we differ. On Biden, I am concerned the Deep State is running the Ukraine show, and not to merely evict Russia from Ukraine, or ground them down into a reasonable armistice, but to seek regime change through attrition and quagmire, and ultimate defeat for Putin. That is a legitimate concern. I am no fans of the Kochs. The Donks may be better on certain social issues as you point out, but are worse on "free trade" (Bill Clinton the NAFTA King) and open borders for cheap labor. Like I say, it would be nice to have a few different parties to vote for. I hope for collegial exchanges in the JFKA EF, especially about the Deep State in current context, and I am especially interested in various viewpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 Editorial: Not to be outdone by his fellow culture warriors, Ashcroft takes on librarians St. Louis Post Dispatch https://nordot.app/955401789613932544?c=592622757532812385 “Given the ever-more extreme race to the right by Missouri’s Republican leaders lately, it was perhaps only a matter of time before one of them suggested the government should start dictating what books public libraries can and cannot carry. That’s the essence of a proposed new rule by Secretary of State Jay Ashcroft. The stated purpose, of course, is to protect vulnerable children from that most threatening of societal scourges: librarians. “ “Ashcroft doesn’t offer a single example of inappropriate material to justify forcing librarians around Missouri to file their book-selection policies with the Politburo, er, state. But his statement comes close to acknowledging what culture war nonsense it all is by declaring that he wants children “to be ‘children’ a little longer than a pervasive culture may often dictate.” Forget getting shot at school like Parkland or Uvalde. The greatest threat to children in today’s society is books. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said: Editorial: Not to be outdone by his fellow culture warriors, Ashcroft takes on librarians Missouri is just one giant sh*tshow at this point. I have friends that live there and they say the rate of de-evolution is frightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts