The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

  The risk of death for unvaccinated adults in my age group (65-79) was NINE TIMES HIGHER than for vaccinated adults.  I may very well be alive today BECAUSE I got vaccinated.

In the UK during the pandemic, the average age of death (ONS) was 81. The average age of a C19 death was 82.5 years. What does that tell you about the lethality of the virus? You were willing to take a punt on something that was experimental and without data proving its safety. Is that logical? 

 

18 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

    People with a number of co-morbid conditions (including old age) are at an increased risk of morbidity and mortality from COVID infections, but that doesn't mean that COVID didn't "cause" their deaths.

A bad strain of influenza would have achieved to he same results, providing we had treated it like C19. You see, someone with stage 4 cancer dying of flu would not have been presented as a person taken by a deadly virus, in the past it would have been presented as someone on their last legs with no functioning immune system dying of complications to the cancer. Do you see the way the cause of death was marketed differently? 
 

Live in a community of 500 or so people. We have not even one C19 death in the whole pandemic. 20% are unjabbed. We do have a bunch of people with adverse reactions or suddenly developed serious  health conditions. You can argue that is a limited sample size. And that is here are many variables. I can make the same argument that data has been misused and misrepresented throughout this pandemic. Either ignoring variables or choosing which to include to make a case.
 

I am sure you’re familiar with this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/

 

[W. Niederhut]

39 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

I think this is a very difficult one for @W. Niederhut, simply because he has skin in the game of sorts. Nobody should misunderstand me, I am not saying that William profited, administered the treatments etc. I am pointed out that William’s career in the medical profession built a lot of faith and trust both academic institutions and the profession as a whole.

What utter nonsense.

My medical career has been built on the study of science, and on the application of scientific research to clinical psychiatry.  Period.

As for my alleged "faith" in institutions, I have been referenced in the New York Times, on occasion, as a critic of Big Pharma and its corruption of psychiatry, which hasn't exactly endeared me to the psychiatric establishment.*

As for the COVID mortality data, please refer to my most recent post on the subject, which got leap-frogged by this inaccurate, ad hominem nonsense.

There is no bona fide scientific controversy about the efficacy of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines.

The argument that co-morbidities rule out COVID as the cause of excess deaths in infected patients makes no sense, as I explained (above.)

*  Psychiatric Group Faces Scrutiny Over Drug Industry Ties - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

* Veterans Agency to Offer New Depression Drug, Despite Cost and Safety Concerns - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Edited November 20, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Matt Allison]

58 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

It is TEOTWAWKI!

I hope Trump retires. But this is the right call. 

 

Musk bought Twitter in order to replatform Trump and other RWNJs, so everyone knew that would happen.

Strangely though, despite Parler and Truth Social demonstrating that a Twitter clone can easily be built, Musk thought people would just stay at Twitter and deal with it.

They won't.

There will be a new Twitter-like app, people will switch to it, and Twitter will become as relevant as MySpace now is.

Musk will go from being the world's richest man, to being the man that lost the most money in history.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

What utter nonsense.

My medical career has been built on the study of science, and on the application of scientific research to clinical psychiatry.  Period.

As for my alleged "faith" in institutions, I have been referenced in the New York Times, on occasion, as a critic of Big Pharma and its corruption of psychiatry, which hasn't exactly endeared me to the psychiatric establishment.*

As for the COVID mortality data, please refer to my most recent post on the subject, which got leap-frogged by this inaccurate, ad hominem nonsense.

*  Psychiatric Group Faces Scrutiny Over Drug Industry Ties - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

* Veterans Agency to Offer New Depression Drug, Despite Cost and Safety Concerns - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Ok, so you just don’t want to debate it.

No problem. 

[Benjamin Cole]

5 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

Musk bought Twitter in order to replatform Trump and other RWNJs, so everyone knew that would happen.

Strangely though, despite Parler and Truth Social demonstrating that a Twitter clone can easily be built, Musk thought people would just stay at Twitter and deal with it.

They won't.

There will be a new Twitter-like app, people will switch to it, and Twitter will become as relevant as MySpace now is.

Musk will go from being the world's richest man, to being the man that lost the most money in history.

Matt Allison:

It sure looks like Musk stuck his weenie into the wrong hole this time.

While incredibly brilliant, in recent years Musk has shown judgement lapses, including denigrating a man who played a role in rescuing boys from a watery death in a cave in Thailand.

Then, he opened up a car plant in China. 

Perhaps hubris has set in. 

Musk, like Trump, appears to sometimes unnecessarily alienate people. When you are in a people business, a bad idea....

 

[Benjamin Cole]

5 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

What utter nonsense.

My medical career has been built on the study of science, and on the application of scientific research to clinical psychiatry.  Period.

As for my alleged "faith" in institutions, I have been referenced in the New York Times, on occasion, as a critic of Big Pharma and its corruption of psychiatry, which hasn't exactly endeared me to the psychiatric establishment.*

As for the COVID mortality data, please refer to my most recent post on the subject, which got leap-frogged by this inaccurate, ad hominem nonsense.

There is no bona fide scientific controversy about the efficacy of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines.

The argument that co-morbidities rule out COVID as the cause of excess deaths in infected patients makes no sense, as I explained (above.)

*  Psychiatric Group Faces Scrutiny Over Drug Industry Ties - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

* Veterans Agency to Offer New Depression Drug, Despite Cost and Safety Concerns - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

W-

My layman's take is the first couple rounds of C19 vaccine "were worth it."

But later rounds seem to lose effectiveness...and I began to suspect the pharma-industry was angling for a "annual flu shot" type of money-maker. 

Also the C-19 death rates were minuscule in lower age groups. Usually, vaccinating the vulnerable is proper protocol. Forcing pre-schoolers to wear masks and so on...it seemed nutty. 

Some pretty smart people are concerned with side effects of the vaccines. I am a layman, so I do not know what to think. 

In all, the C19 response was an economic debacle, and of course now global inflation has set in. The lockdowns and other business restrictions appear less justifiable. 

The media's role is defining the Wuhan lab leak as a "debunked conspiracy theory" is simply jaw-dropping. Commentary about the Wuhan lab leak was banned on certain forums. This remains inexplicable, and contributes to a robust erosion of confidence in media and government. 

I can see why the public is very dubious about the origins and response to C19. I am too, on many levels. 

In total, C19 generated a public policy catastrophe. 

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[Steve Thomas]

- Donald Trump 11/18/22 -

"I've proven to be one of the most honest and innocent people ever in our country."

 

Steve Thomas

[Ron Bulman]

Legal experts: Special counsel investigating Trump will move very quickly (msn.com)

[W. Niederhut]

7 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

W-

My layman's take is the first couple rounds of C19 vaccine "were worth it."

But later rounds seem to lose effectiveness...and I began to suspect the pharma-industry was angling for a "annual flu shot" type of money-maker. 

Also the C-19 death rates were minuscule in lower age groups. Usually, vaccinating the vulnerable is proper protocol. Forcing pre-schoolers to wear masks and so on...it seemed nutty. 

Some pretty smart people are concerned with side effects of the vaccines. I am a layman, so I do not know what to think. 

In all, the C19 response was an economic debacle, and of course now global inflation has set in. The lockdowns and other business restrictions appear less justifiable. 

The media's role is defining the Wuhan lab leak as a "debunked conspiracy theory" is simply jaw-dropping. Commentary about the Wuhan lab leak was banned on certain forums. This remains inexplicable, and contributes to a robust erosion of confidence in media and government. 

I can see why the public is very dubious about the origins and response to C19. I am too, on many levels. 

In total, C19 generated a public policy catastrophe. 

 

Ben,

     What is it about a NINEFOLD INCREASED RISK of death from COVID in unvaccinated adults over the age of 65 that you and Chris Barnard still don't understand?

     Do you and Chris know how to read graphs?

      Impact of Vaccination on Risk of COVID-19–Related Mortality (cdc.gov)

Edited November 20, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

 Do you and Chris know how to read graphs?

It’s certainly easier for you to assume that, than face the elephant in the room. 

 

You carry on Dr Delusion. 

[Guest]

63K + Scientists & Medical Practitioners who apparently can’t read data. 
 

https://gbdeclaration.org/view-signatures/

 

 

[Matthew Koch]

15 hours ago, John Cotter said:

As an unjabbed 68 year old, it was heartening to see Eric Clapton and of course Van the Man speaking out the against the covid authoritarian groupthink. Here’s what Robert F Kennedy Jnr said to Eric in the course of their conversation about it:

“You took the vaccine. You got hurt by the first one. You believe the propaganda. You took the second one, and you essentially got disabled. You spoke out about your injury and the whole world came down and gaslighted you and marginalized you and vilified you, because you got injured by that product. And here they come after you because you’re not allowed to talk about that. And that is the big problem. The way they’re coping with injuries from these vaccines is to pretend they don’t exist and to punish people who get injured and try to talk about it.”

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/rfk-jr-defender-robert-f-kennedy-eric-clapton-covid-vaccine-injury/

About a year ago, a long-standing member of the Irish national parliament (Dáil) and former government minister called upon the government to establish a redress scheme for vaccine injuries. I haven’t heard anything further about it.

The fact that a populist politician raised the issue indicates that a substantial number of his constituents have suffered vaccine injuries (I know a few myself).  Yet the problem is being pushed under the carpet or disguised as something else and “journalists” seem afraid to report on it for fear of being vilified by the use of such derogatory terms as anti vaxxers, mis/disinformation spreaders, far-right and fascists.

The covid so-called pandemic was really a pandemic of mass insanity.

Hi John I too am un "jabbed".

I don't like to use the word "vaccine" unless it's the J&J  because they changed the definition for this shot. I have "Pure Blood" on my Instagram bio to xxxxx people who love Harry Potter, lol. Where I'm living things weren't as politicized as America I don't know how it is where you are. I've never had Covid-19, I think it's ridiculous to require a vaccine for something that is 99.98% survivable, it really should be left up to personal decision you know "My Body My Choice" as leftists here parrot.

There is a Vaccine Injury Court in America and was set up because vaccines are not a 100% safe procedure. So it is medical Fascism to mandate people take a procedure that is not not considered safe. Funny how people here on the forum who throw the word fascist around liberally don't use it when the government mandates you take a corporations gene therapy relabeled as a vaccine to gain peoples trust, that doesn't have long term safety data... in fact you aren't allowed to see the data for 75 years (sound like anything else we are all familiar with;) I've seen the vaccine injuries (Worm like blood clots, blood blots in the brain, mythocarditis) the science is junk on the spike cell. The people who have it now seem to be most effected by the variants are people with the vaccine. I don't remember people dropping dead before or Futbol players collapsing like I've seen since the introduction of the vaccine. Interestingly on social media you are censored from talking about or discussing what appears to be a vaccine that does not meet salty standards or original terms that it was sold as. 

Donald Trump in my opinion was a big enough threat to the "Deep State" that they literally did the 201 drill Bill Gates and and Co were war gaming to get Trump out of office. It' interesting how drills become live action events over and over again.  The odds of a bunch of states finding 4am votes at the same time to change the election is unprecedented and you get kicked off social media for discussing that also. There is no way Joe Biden could have gotten that amount of votes without what he called "The Greatest Fraud Organization in History" now we are learning in real time about a piece of that Fraud Organization THX and SMB as that implodes and is looking like another BCCI. It was surprising at first to see Ukraine involved but shouldn't be anymore seeing just how corrupt Zelensky and his regime are. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This thread is based on the Curmudgeon Fintan O'Toole article https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-donald-trump-has-destroyed-the-country-he-promised-to-make-great-again-1.4235928   I put the parts that aged really bad or are in-accurate IMO in red. 

Usually, when this kind of outlandish idiocy is displaying itself, there is the comforting thought that, if things were really serious, it would all stop. People would sober up. Instead, a large part of the US has hit the bottle even harder.

US President Donald Trump has claimed he was being sarcastic and testing the media when he raised the idea that injecting disinfectant or irradiating the body with ultraviolet light might kill coronavirus.

Over more than two centuries, the United States has stirred a very wide range of feelings in the rest of the world: love and hatred, fear and hope, envy and contempt, awe and anger. But there is one emotion that has never been directed towards the US until now: pity.

However bad things are for most other rich democracies, it is hard not to feel sorry for Americans. Most of them did not vote for Donald Trump in 2016. Yet they are locked down with a malignant narcissist who, instead of protecting his people from Covid-19, has amplified its lethality. The country Trump promised to make great again has never in its history seemed so pitiful.

Will American prestige ever recover from this shameful episode? The US went into the coronavirus crisis with immense advantages: precious weeks of warning about what was coming, the world’s best concentration of medical and scientific expertise, effectively limitless financial resources, a military complex with stunning logistical capacity and most of the world’s leading technology corporations. Yet it managed to make itself the global epicentre of the pandemic.

As the American writer George Packer puts it in the current edition of the Atlantic, “The United States reacted … like Pakistan or Belarus – like a country with shoddy infrastructure and a dysfunctional government whose leaders were too corrupt or stupid to head off mass suffering.”

It is one thing to be powerless in the face of a natural disaster, quite another to watch vast power being squandered in real time – wilfully, malevolently, vindictively. It is one thing for governments to fail (as, in one degree or another, most governments did), quite another to watch a ruler and his supporters actively spread a deadly virus. Trump, his party and Rupert Murdoch’s Fox News became vectors of the pestilence.

The grotesque spectacle of the president openly inciting people (some of them armed) to take to the streets to oppose the restrictions that save lives is the manifestation of a political death wish. What are supposed to be daily briefings on the crisis, demonstrative of national unity in the face of a shared challenge, have been used by Trump merely to sow confusion and division. They provide a recurring horror show in which all the neuroses that haunt the American subconscious dance naked on live TV.

If the plague is a test, its ruling political nexus ensured that the US would fail it at a terrible cost in human lives. In the process, the idea of the US as the world’s leading nation – an idea that has shaped the past century – has all but evaporated.

Other than the Trump impersonator Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil, who is now looking to the US as the exemplar of anything other than what not to do? How many people in Düsseldorf or Dublin are wishing they lived in Detroit or Dallas?

It is hard to remember now but, even in 2017, when Trump took office, the conventional wisdom in the US was that the Republican Party and the broader framework of US political institutions would prevent him from doing too much damage. This was always a delusion, but the pandemic has exposed it in the most savage ways.

What used to be called mainstream conservatism has not absorbed Trump – he has absorbed it. Almost the entire right-wing half of American politics has surrendered abjectly to him. It has sacrificed on the altar of wanton stupidity the most basic ideas of responsibility, care and even safety.

Thus, even at the very end of March, 15 Republican governors had failed to order people to stay at home or to close non-essential businesses. In Alabama, for example, it was not until April 3rd that governor Kay Ivey finally issued a stay-at-home order.

In Florida, the state with the highest concentration of elderly people with underlying conditions, governor Ron DeSantis, a Trump mini-me, kept the beach resorts open to students travelling from all over the US for spring break parties. Even on April 1st, when he issued restrictions, DeSantis exempted religious services and “recreational activities”.

There is, as the demonstrations in US cities show, plenty of political mileage in denying the reality of the pandemic.

Georgia governor Brian Kemp, when he finally issued a stay-at-home order on April 1st, explained: “We didn’t know that [the virus can be spread by people without symptoms] until the last 24 hours.”

This is not mere ignorance – it is deliberate and homicidal stupidity. There is, as the demonstrations this week in US cities have shown, plenty of political mileage in denying the reality of the pandemic. It is fuelled by Fox News and far-right internet sites, and it reaps for these politicians millions of dollars in donations, mostly (in an ugly irony) from older people who are most vulnerable to the coronavirus.

It draws on a concoction of conspiracy theories, hatred of science, paranoia about the “deep state” and religious providentialism (God will protect the good folks) that is now very deeply infused in the mindset of the American right.

Trump embodies and enacts this mindset, but he did not invent it. The US response to the coronavirus crisis has been paralysed by a contradiction that the Republicans have inserted into the heart of US democracy. On the one hand, they want to control all the levers of governmental power. On the other they have created a popular base by playing on the notion that government is innately evil and must not be trusted.

The contradiction was made manifest in two of Trump’s statements on the pandemic: on the one hand that he has “total authority”, and on the other that “I don’t take responsibility at all”. Caught between authoritarian and anarchic impulses, he is incapable of coherence.

But this is not just Donald Trump. The crisis has shown definitively that Trump’s presidency is not an aberration. It has grown on soil long prepared to receive it. The monstrous blossoming of misrule has structure and purpose and strategy behind it.

There are very powerful interests who demand “freedom” in order to do as they like with the environment, society and the economy. They have infused a very large part of American culture with the belief that “freedom” is literally more important than life. My freedom to own assault weapons trumps your right not to get shot at school. Now, my freedom to go to the barber (“I Need a Haircut” read one banner this week in St Paul, Minnesota) trumps your need to avoid infection.

Usually, when this kind of outlandish idiocy is displaying itself, there is the comforting thought that, if things were really serious, it would all stop. People would sober up. Instead, a large part of the US has hit the bottle even harder.

And the president, his party and their media allies keep supplying the drinks. There has been no moment of truth, no shock of realisation that the antics have to end. No one of any substance on the US right has stepped in to say: get a grip, people are dying here.
If he is re-elected, toxicity will have become the lifeblood of American politics
That is the mark of how deep the trouble is for the US – it is not just that Trump has treated the crisis merely as a way to feed tribal hatreds but that this behaviour has become normalised. When the freak show is live on TV every evening, and the star is boasting about his ratings, it is not really a freak show any more. For a very large and solid bloc of Americans, it is reality.

And this will get worse before it gets better. Trump has at least eight more months in power. In his inaugural address in 2017, he evoked “American carnage” and promised to make it stop. But now that the real carnage has arrived, he is revelling in it. He is in his element.

As things get worse, he will pump more hatred and falsehood, more death-wish defiance of reason and decency, into the groundwater. If a new administration succeeds him in 2021, it will have to clean up the toxic dump he leaves behind. If he is re-elected, toxicity will have become the lifeblood of American politics.
Either way, it will be a long time before the rest of the world can imagine America being great again.

Fintan O’Toole is an Irish columnist, literary editor, and drama critic for The Irish Times, for which he has written since 1988.

 

 

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

11 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

- Donald Trump 11/18/22 -

"I've proven to be one of the most honest and innocent people ever in our country."

 

Steve Thomas

Donnie, Donnie, Donnie.  You can't even believe yourself.  If they put your brain on the edge of a razor blade it would look like a BB rolling down a four-lane highway (John Nitzinger).  Is that why you never would allow release of your college records?  (Alternate take from another version: if they put your brain inside a basketball it would look like a gnat's ass bouncing around inside the Astrodome).

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[Kirk Gallaway]

Whether you're 63 or 23!

[Matthew Koch]

14 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

What utter nonsense.

My medical career has been built on the study of science, and on the application of scientific research to clinical psychiatry.  Period.

As for my alleged "faith" in institutions, I have been referenced in the New York Times, on occasion, as a critic of Big Pharma and its corruption of psychiatry, which hasn't exactly endeared me to the psychiatric establishment.*

As for the COVID mortality data, please refer to my most recent post on the subject, which got leap-frogged by this inaccurate, ad hominem nonsense.

There is no bona fide scientific controversy about the efficacy of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines.

The argument that co-morbidities rule out COVID as the cause of excess deaths in infected patients makes no sense, as I explained (above.)

*  Psychiatric Group Faces Scrutiny Over Drug Industry Ties - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

* Veterans Agency to Offer New Depression Drug, Despite Cost and Safety Concerns - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

William have you read RFK Jr's book? There are a couple of reasons that the data can't be trusted. Part of it is that the data is not reliable because Hospitals were incentivised to inflate the data because they received more funding for it.

 

I would recommend checking out this Doctor because there is an excess in the death rate. The vaccine is linked to this but would need alot more study before it could be called science.