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Unveiling The Limo Stop


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2 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Just to be clear...

The limo stop/pause is removed as are 50% then 25% of a 48fps shot film to get us to 18fps with a mathematical adjustment to 18.3 fps to make moving about the 1:18.3 rise:run of Elm.

Agreed, 48fps then 50% removed which would mimick a 24fps version leaving 2/3 true action speed within the film. The last part of the removal process may involve a more random selection of frames than a straight 25% sequence. I say this because of another document I've been referencing which indicates the random process.

But generally, yes, .625 x 48 = 30 frames and 48-30 = 18fps 

The complete removal of all this "time" is incorporated into the edit at 132/133

Not sure about the complete removal by 132/133 with two more splices to go. Definitely considering a stop/pause/slowdown at the Towner/Z film gap - Shot#1  I'll add to this in a bit.

How can the hypotenuse of the 2 25' sides (2+00 to 2+25 to 2+50) be 50 feet?

Sorry if I wasn't clear on this. I was not referring to any triangles, only pointing out the distance via West's path using JFK's position in the limo as the 50ft street distance from Station#2+00 to Station#2+50

Please keep in mind, I am only supplying the reasoning for the 10"/ 15.23ft / 74 extra frames brought about via UPI and Horne's National Archive research.

Ultimately, the 16fps divisor plays too big of a role in this latest work. I believe the final ratio will be 48fps slo-mo to 16 which would be 66% frame removal for specific spans especially from zframe1 at Station 2+00 to extant z207 at Station# 371.1. Meyer's appears to hide this and I'll reveal some more of his BS involving the Elm St turn syncing with a true 16fps.

The speed tests run on the Z camera at "normal" setting could be accurate at 18.3 fps. But, from 48fps, the step-down to the actual speed more than likely was 16fps.

50ft.png

2 hours ago, David Josephs said:

1805178789_LocationofStationCinrelationtoPositionAandZ161CE884168.thumb.jpg.e613e7eedc27ab0a13b320b74c95fc3f.jpg

 

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3 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Please keep in mind, I am only supplying the reasoning for the 10"/ 15.23ft / 74 extra frames brought about via UPI and Horne's National Archive research.

Understood Chris...  where else is there a gap that large and conflict so deep but that corner... in which to hide most any and all evils...

”where the limo would have turned”  ;)

Great work... enjoying every second..

 

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3 hours ago, David Josephs said:

 where else is there a gap that large and conflict so deep but that corner... in which to hide most any and all evils...

”where the limo would have turned”  ;)

 

 

The other logical location (imo) would be the Z/Towner gap.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26676-dealey-plaza-witness-survey/?do=findComment&comment=428287

Euins says 1st shot and then it kind of "speeded up".

I wonder if he means it slowed/stopped at this point?

 

Credit to Vince Palamara for the following info:

" DPD James Chaney (one of the four Presidential motorcyclists)---stated that the Presidential limousine stopped momentarily after the first shot (according to the testimony of Mark Lane; corroborated by the testimony of fellow DPD motorycle officer Marion Baker: Chaney told him that "…at the time, after the shooting, from the time the first shot rang out, the car stopped completely, pulled to the left and stopped." Extant Z135?

"DPD D.V. Harkness---". . . I saw the first shot and the President's car slow[ed] down to almost a stop…I heard the first shot and saw the President's car almost come to a stop and some of the agents [were] piling on the car." [6 H 309];

Dallas Morning News reporter Mary Woodward (Pillsworth)---"…Instead of speeding up the car, the car came to a halt."; she saw the President's car come to a halt after the first shot.

TSBD Supervisor Roy Truly---after the first shot "…I saw the President's car swerve to the left and stop(Extant Z135?) somewhere down in the area…[it stopped] for a second or two or something like that…I just saw it stop." [3 H 221, 266];

 

What 1st shot(limo location) are they referring to? Corroborating Euins?

The gif is a camera shake reaction comparison to extant Z134, in relationship to the firing of a rifle.

Also note the shift to the left of the limo at z135.

 

133ShotReaction.gif

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Please keep in mind, I am only supplying the reasoning for the 10"/ 15.23ft / 74 extra frames brought about via UPI and Horne's National Archive research.

Ultimately, the 16fps divisor plays too big of a role in this latest work. I believe the final ratio will be 48fps slo-mo to 16 which would be 66% frame removal for specific spans especially from zframe1 at Station 2+00 to extant z207 at Station# 371.1. Meyer's appears to hide this and I'll reveal some more of his BS involving the Elm St turn syncing with a true 16fps.

The speed tests run on the Z camera at "normal" setting could be accurate at 18.3 fps. But, from 48fps, the step-down to the actual speed more than likely was 16fps.

 

 

Remember 2.24mph of this: 74frames/16fps = 4.625sec x (2.24mph) 3.294ft per sec = 15.23 ft = 10” vertical drop.

Myer's uses the drivers side rear tire(inside radius) as the measuring marker instead of JFK within the limo(outside radius) = a definite distance difference.

Besides that, note the frame total for the backside of his Elm St turn 160-88 = 72frames, rather close to 74.

His last distance for these 72 frames = 42.57ft

42.57ft/72frames = .59125ft per frame x 16fps = 9.46ft per sec / 1.47 = 6.435...mph

At some point, he increases his plat from 100 to 108%(anyone interested in verifying this can download his PDF)which is represented by the second and third frames in the gif(same frames-different sizes) and the last frame scaled at 108% to match the third frame.

Incorporate that plat size change into the 6.435... mph equation above.

6.435...mph x 1.08 = 6.95mph

6.95mph + 2.24mph = 9.19mph

His determined average speed for Towner 88-160 = 9.2mph

Myers-72-Frames7dcc78ae903d6359.png

Meyers-108-percent.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chris Davidson said:

 

Meyers-108-percent.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finally,

His graphic above with the limo plotted around the entire Elm St turn starting at Towner frame#6 and ending with the last Towner frame = 83.83ft traveled, using that inside rear tire as the mark.

If you use Robert West's (+) marks as the posItion of JFK within the limo around the same turn and the existing stationary landmarks(building corners, Street lights, trees, etc) as measuring markers, the total distance traveled by JFK is approx 99.275ft.

99.275 - 83.83 = 15.445ft approx distance difference.

15.25 ft = 10” vertical drop.

Towner-Plotted.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 9/16/2020 at 10:35 AM, Chris Davidson said:

Running the math from what I have labeled as Zframe1 through the final splice at extant z207:

171.1ft/207frames = .8265ft per frame x 16 = 13.225ft per sec / 1.47(1mph)= 8.996mph

Remove an added 15.23ft/74frames = .2058ft per frame

.8265ft per frame - .2058ft per frame = .6207ft per frame x 16 = 9.9312ft per sec / 1.47 = 6.7559mph

8.996 - 6.7559 = 2.24mph

In case you had forgotten how to connect the above with what's been previously presented, here it is again:

74frames/16fps = 4.625sec x (2.24mph) 3.294ft per sec = 15.23 ft = 10” vertical drop.

 

Therefore,

Excerpts from previous posting:

"Towner frame#6 and ending with the last Towner frame 

The total distance traveled by JFK is approx 99.275ft.

99.275 - 83.83 = 15.445ft approx distance difference."

Which leads to:

167-6 =161 Towner frames @ 99.275ft = .6166ft per frame

And is quite close to the equation above in terms of ft per frame: .8265ft per frame - .2058ft per frame = .6207ft per frame x 16 = 9.9312ft per sec / 1.47 = 6.7559mph

Whereas:

99.94ft/161 frames = .6207ft per frame would be a match

And moves us back to this:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26525-unveiling-the-limo-stop/?do=findComment&comment=429333

Connection Completed. imo

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 9/16/2020 at 5:50 PM, Chris Davidson said:

Please keep in mind, I am only supplying the reasoning for the 10"/ 15.23ft / 74 extra frames brought about via UPI and Horne's National Archive research.

Ultimately, the 16fps divisor plays too big of a role in this latest work. I believe the final ratio will be 48fps slo-mo to 16 which would be 66% frame removal for specific spans especially from zframe1 at Station 2+00 to extant z207 at Station# 371.1. Meyer's appears to hide this and I'll reveal some more of his BS involving the Elm St turn syncing with a true 16fps.

The speed tests run on the Z camera at "normal" setting could be accurate at 18.3 fps. But, from 48fps, the step-down to the actual speed more than likely was 16fps.

 

 

Can there be any doubt from where Myer's obtained his bogus Towner frame rate for syncing?

Especially, since the document was created some 10+ years earlier than his multi-sync project.

22.89fps.png

 

 

 

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Is it just me, or does a filming speed of 48 fps indicate some foreknowledge of the assassination on Zapruder's part?  Why take a slo-mo movie of the limo driving by?  I wonder if he used the slo-mo feature on any prior exposures.  Interesting implications for that $16M payout he got for his movie, right?

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On 9/17/2020 at 12:46 PM, Chris Davidson said:

6.435...mph x 1.08 = 6.95mph

Does this somehow explain the visual phenomenon we see just as they complete the turn in Towner? The 108%?

Somehow the background objects grow by 8%(?) while the foreground objects receded as they're should.
Yet it appears the spectators remain the same size...

Extremely well done Chris... tying it all together like that is brilliant.  I had never seen where Myers said Zapruder was filmed at 48fps and cut down to 22.89.  (50%, 5.375%, then 20% to get to 18.3)

What's the added .09 to 22.8 do?

1794964653_TownerSizeanomolie.thumb.jpg.91fd6cad9655b82f3238624d0f70710e.jpg

1008958217_Townershowslimogettingsmallerwhilebackgroundgetsbigger.thumb.jpg.96a8a19e86cfeacb23c2a3e4bc201b76.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, David Josephs said:

Does this somehow explain the visual phenomenon we see just as they complete the turn in Towner? The 108%?

The way it works out is the 108% is strictly a distance adjustment sync(final 72 Towner frames/42.57ft)from what I've been able to determine. I'll post more on that in awhile.

Somehow the background objects grow by 8%(?) while the foreground objects receded as they're should.
Yet it appears the spectators remain the same size...

See below

Extremely well done Chris... tying it all together like that is brilliant.  I had never seen where Myers said Zapruder was filmed at 48fps and cut down to 22.89.  (50%, 5.375%, then 20% to get to 18.3)

Myers never said Z was filmed at 48fps and cut down to 22.89. Those are two separate documents from different people.

What's the added .09 to 22.8 do?

Myers only used 10th's, not hundredth's in his fps designations.

I think it would have been even more obvious if he would have given the exact frame rate from the other study.

 

 

 

 

In one frame, I used the front limo tire in relationship to the column edge(blue line). The other, I used the rear limo tire in approx the same location in relation to the column edge.

You'll notice the whitewall stripes are close to aligning from both tires(closest the frames get).

I scaled the front tire frame which occurs earlier in the film to 117% to match the later frame.

If needed, I can move the frames so the whitewalls align which will shift the rest of the frames registration slightly.

Towner-117-zoom.png

 

 

 

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  • 4 months later...
On 9/11/2020 at 3:16 PM, Chris Davidson said:

Putting this into a ratio context for all that believe the original was filmed at 18.3fps. That, which I am not a part of.

74/560 = .1321

16/18.3 = .8743

             = 1.0064 whole frames

Feels like a trap either way you interpret it.

I suggest rereading UPI's description of their film.

 

 

 

 

The WC provides us with two different versions of CE884. Red Flag Warning
There is an approx 1.5 mph difference (using 18.3fps as the frame rate) between the initial entries of Z161-166 & Z168-171  (2.24 vs 3.734 mph)

A logical place to test this in terms of 74 frames is at two splices: z133-z207.
Cutler places z133 near station# 3+00 ft
Both CE884 versions place Z207 at station# 3+71.1ft
71.1ft/74frames

71.1ft/74 = .9608ft per frame x 18.3fps = 17.58ft per sec / 1.47 = 11.961mph
71.1ft/74 = .9608ft per frame x 16.0fps = 15.37ft per sec / 1.47 = 10.457mph
                                                                                                              1.504 mph

A good reason for two CE884 versions.

It’s even more precise to start with z136 instead of z133 and plot JFK’s position within the limo using Robert West’s path and the drivers side front corner aligning with the the lamp-post in the background, but this is close enough for now.

133-207.png

Edited by Chris Davidson
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On 5/8/2020 at 12:39 PM, Chris Davidson said:

 

On 5/8/2020 at 2:31 PM, Chris Davidson said:

There were 38 frames excised + the remaining 38 frames = 76 frames.

The hairflap on Z appears at z275 = 5 frames before Z280.

76 + 5 = 81 Z frames between the hairflap and extant z313 shot.

81/18.3 = 4.42 seconds

Just substitute Hickey's second of the two with the word "last".

Hickey-4-5-seconds.png

 

Chris D,

I don't know why I didn't make this connection months ago on reading through your material.  OBTW, excellent work.  First Rate.

This photo frame 275 shows this:

z275-2.jpg

There is a large light spot on the top of Kennedy's head.  This connects to your hair flap sequence later.  But, did you notice the large black spot on the back of Kennedy's head.  Sometimes, their is a dent in that area more noticeable in other frames.  I see this light spot and dark spot in earlier frames.  Starting about Z 227 or directly after the p. limo appears from behind the Stemmons Sign.    

These same two spots are shown in Z 242.  It is hard to see if a hair flap is there.  It may be covered by Kennedy's hand:

z242-a.jpg  

and, again in Z 227:

z228-a.jpg

Some folks would say this is just light and shadow in these Z frames.  But, this light spot is connected to the hair flap sequence you have shown.  The black spot looks suspiciously like the Hollywood black spot covering the Kennedy exit wound at the back of his head.

If so, these frames put the Kennedy Head wound ahead of the throat wound and possibly back wound.   That reverses the shot order and won't make sense to others.

But, that is what Mary Moorman said.  Believable? 

 

Edited by John Butler
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On 5/10/2020 at 1:27 PM, Chris Davidson said:

Too many official studies on a film which is faulty(missing frames) to begin with.

Compare the Alvarez study with the previous Itek study I provided and note the differences in frame# related to limo speed and the speed bump up/down from z289-z293

I previously provided a frame rate scenario which includes18.3fps and the missing frames taking the Z/Wiegman syncs into consideration.

The extant film from z133-z318@18.3 fps =10.1seconds
Missing frames 38 = 2.076 seconds
Z318-Z447 = 129Z frames / 7.666seconds = 16.82fps
Z447-Z486 = 39Z frames/16.82fps = 2.318seconds
Total time 22.16seconds

 

 

 

 

If you take the lower frame rate of 16.82 fps you would have 22.16 x 16.82 = 372.73 frames missing by your calculations.

If you add in the Zapruder Gap there would be more.  Various people have estimated the time of this from about 15 seconds to 30 seconds.  If I am recalling correctly David Josephs estimated about 15 seconds.  

Using his estimate and your 16.82 fps one would find 15 x 16.82 = 252.3.

Add 372.73 + 252.3 = 625.03+ missing frames.  This is just a rough estimate, but 625+ missing frames make a statement.

Who could trust anything about this film?  625 frames missing?  That is most of the film!  22 seconds + 15 seconds equal 37 seconds missing.  The film is only 26 seconds long?  If these figures are correct the film should be 22 seconds + 15 seconds + 26 seconds = 63 seconds long instead of 26 seconds long.  That's a lot of missing information.

 

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