Unveiling The Limo Stop

[Chris Davidson]

On 3/1/2023 at 2:41 PM, Chris Davidson said:

 

Running it from the beginning thru to the extant Z207 splice frame = 41 frames, which is reflected as a distance traveled of 41ft via CE884. 41ft/41frames - One ft. per one frame  hmm!!!

The immediate tipoff besides two different CE884 documents, is the listing of frame 166/171 in the same location.

1ft per one frame = 18.3ft persec/1.47 = 12.44mph

 

 

 

 

 

For use as a reference:

2.24mph = .18ft per frame

3.74mph = .30ft per frame

5.98mph = .48ft per frame

.481 x 12.44 = 5.98mph

See the connection to the speed, dictated by the tire circumference chalk markings previously supplied? It's the last entry below in my discussions with Tony.

.481 is awfully close to 1/2

Do you know what happens to the vehicle speed on film when you remove over 1/2 the frames in a certain span, depending on what frame removal sequence you utilize.

Especially when the vehicle was slowing down/stopping?

I've previously provided the plotted speed using JFK as the mark from extant z201.5-207 = 5.3mph

Is that close to 5.98mph. It is by .3ft

2.34ft/5.5frames =5.3mph

2.34ft + .3ft =2.64ft/5.5frames = .48ft per frame

And, since they had the limo traveling at .3ft per frame per CE884 extant z168-z171 (3frames/.9ft), I believe my plotting of a 5.3mph limo speed is well within the BS parameters set forth by the WC.

 

 

 

 

[Chris Davidson]

If you have a grip on the previous posting, it should be quite easy to understand the following:

Why would the FBI/SS have a zfilm copy that contained a lot of missing frames (I'll use frame 195-222 span, HINT HINT) which would normally equal 27frames.

When viewing this 19 progressive frame gif, imagine excising the SIX double image frames that appear while it's playing.

That would leave 13 frames for that same 27 frame span in the extant zfilm.

13/27 = .481

I hope that ratio rings a bell.

The elimination rounds for the extant zfilm.

 

 

[Chris Davidson]

Did you really believe this was all camera movement?

I suggest comparing it to the previous gif.

[Chris Davidson]

On 2/6/2023 at 2:15 PM, Chris Davidson said:

The graphic below is an excerpt from what I provided Tony.

The scale is 1" = 10ft so each individual line is 1.25ft.

When I originally sent him the plotting results, I used 1.875ft as the distanced travel, but 1.875 was reflective of the individual measuring lines.

Hence the reason that equation is in red type.

So, 5.3mph(shorter frame span) vs 5.98mph so far.

Fairly close, and it will get tighter.

 

 

 

When you get tired of looking at the gifs above, refer back to the plotted area of extant z195.5-201.5.

The scale is 1"=10ft or each 1/8" mark = 1.25ft

I count approx 7.875 marks at 1.25ft = 9.84 ft total in 6 frames = 1.64ft per frame = 20.41mph

Add that to the next span at 5.3mph and you have an average speed from extant z195.5-207 of:

20.41 + 5.3 = 25.71 / 2 = 12.85mph

Now compare back to the average speed from CE884 z166-z207 = 12.44mph

Take another look at the "camera movement" within the gifs again.

 

[Chris Davidson]

12 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

If you have a grip on the previous posting, it should be quite easy to understand the following:

Why would the FBI/SS have a zfilm copy that contained a lot of missing frames (I'll use frame 195-222 span, HINT HINT) which would normally equal 27frames.

When viewing this 19 progressive frame gif, imagine excising the SIX double image frames that appear while it's playing.

That would leave 13 frames for that same 27 frame span in the extant zfilm.

13/27 = .481

I hope that ratio rings a bell.

The elimination rounds for the extant zfilm.

 

 

And now, as a follow up, it's back to Dino:

https://vimeo.com/807638543

Edited March 13, 2023 by Chris Davidson
More secure personal link

[Chris Davidson]

On 3/1/2023 at 2:41 PM, Chris Davidson said:

It's interesting, how many people have written off the reenactments as "less than perfect" attempts to obtain the truth.

The fact is, the reenactments were far more accurate in hiding the alterations.

Just as with the camera height on the pedestal not being quite the same height as what the extant Z camera was, this was also applied in terms of vehicle speed.

The gif above has the limo starting in the same location in both, when using the traffic signal light post in the background.

Running it from the beginning thru to the extant Z207 splice frame = 41 frames, which is reflected as a distance traveled of 41ft via CE884. 41ft/41frames - One ft. per one frame  hmm!!!

The immediate tipoff besides two different CE884 documents, is the listing of frame 166/171 in the same location.

The QueenMary in the reenactment session only takes 32 frames vs the 41 to arrive at the extant z207 location. (They knew the true speed of the limo)

41/32 = QueenMary traveling 1.28x faster in that span.

1ft per one frame = 18.3ft persec/1.47 = 12.44mph

12.44mph x 1.28 = 15.92mph

15.92mph - 12.44 = 3.48mph x 1.47 = 5.11ft in one second = 18.3frames

If this simple math gets too complicated just ask for refinements.

 

 

What's nice about modern day technology is the ability to recreate the reenactments.

As mentioned above, the reenactment vehicle was moving at a "calculated" faster speed than the extant limo.

This is easily remedied by modern day programs (FinalCutPro) abilities to create interpolated frames.

In this instance(below) more interpolated frames were created by a 52% reduction in speed.

.48 +.52 = 1

Once that was obtained, and the correct "frame removal" sequence was applied to some of the area in question(below is z186-z207), it would be very difficult to decipher that 60% of the whole(real+interpolated) were removed from below.

This could have been completed with an optical printer using the "sequencer" option I believe, in a brief amount of time.

I left a partial view of the speedier 15.92mph reenactment version for comparison.

 

 

 

 

[Ian Lloyd]

How do the rifle angles in CE887 & CE1032 relate/compare?

[Chris Davidson]

On 3/13/2023 at 9:37 AM, Chris Davidson said:

When you get tired of looking at the gifs above, refer back to the plotted area of extant z195.5-201.5.

The scale is 1"=10ft or each 1/8" mark = 1.25ft

I count approx 7.875 marks at 1.25ft = 9.84 ft total in 6 frames = 1.64ft per frame = 20.41mph

Add that to the next span at 5.3mph and you have an average speed from extant z195.5-207 of:

20.41 + 5.3 = 25.71 / 2 = 12.85mph

Now compare back to the average speed from CE884 z166-z207 = 12.44mph

Take another look at the "camera movement" within the gifs again.

 

When you excise frames, the frame count is bound to bite you in the ass.

Another example from both versions of CE884 would be the speeds derived from the same physical location.

In this instance below, 9.54mph and 28.63mph starting with extant z207.

It is the same concept from above, where we have two greatly varied speeds of 5.3 and 20.41mph in adjacent frame spans plotted, that cover z195.5-z207.

 

 

 

 

[Chris Davidson]

10 hours ago, Ian Lloyd said:

 CE1032 relate/compare?

Ian,

I'm not familiar with the relationship of CE1032 and rifle angles.

[Ian Lloyd]

Sorry Chris, I should have explained better but was rushing...

Didn't the WC conclude that LHO fired the shots with the rifle resting on top of a box which was itself resting on the window sill? If so, I struggle to reconcile that with the position that Shaneyfelt is contorting himself into to replicate the shots; the way he's holding the rifle shows a very steep downward angle for the shots compared to what would be achievable if resting the rifle on the box (actually, I think if the rifle were resting on the box, the shots would fly right over the plaza!).

Do the study take into account the angle of the rifle itself, not just the angle from the window sill (including the box)?

Perhaps it does and I'm just missing it...apologies...

As an aside, I wonder if the shots could be fired in the supposed time if firing from Shaneyfelt's position - it looks quite awkward to fire and reload etc.

[Chris Davidson]

8 hours ago, Ian Lloyd said:

Sorry Chris, I should have explained better but was rushing...

Didn't the WC conclude that LHO fired the shots with the rifle resting on top of a box which was itself resting on the window sill? If so, I struggle to reconcile that with the position that Shaneyfelt is contorting himself into to replicate the shots; the way he's holding the rifle shows a very steep downward angle for the shots compared to what would be achievable if resting the rifle on the box (actually, I think if the rifle were resting on the box, the shots would fly right over the plaza!).

Do the study take into account the angle of the rifle itself, not just the angle from the window sill (including the box)?

Perhaps it does and I'm just missing it...apologies...

As an aside, I wonder if the shots could be fired in the supposed time if firing from Shaneyfelt's position - it looks quite awkward to fire and reload etc.

Please watch the 3.5 minute segment above and let me know where they determined a shot (hitting lower than JFK's head) would work with the SBT?

If you can do that, then I'll try to address your previous questions.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Chris Davidson
Spelling

[Chris Davidson]

On 3/15/2023 at 12:05 AM, Chris Davidson said:

When you excise frames, the frame count is bound to bite you in the ass.

Another example from both versions of CE884 would be the speeds derived from the same physical location.

In this instance below, 9.54mph and 28.63mph starting with extant z207.

It is the same concept from above, where we have two greatly varied speeds of 5.3 and 20.41mph in adjacent frame spans plotted, that cover z195.5-z207.

 

 

 

 

The frame count isn't the only variable that will bite you,remnant fallout from trying to keep a sync in place will appear.

For example, the early plat created by Robert West on Dec5, 1963 was revised on Feb7, 1964 after the SS/FBI "fine tuning".

The height(measured up from the street) used for a bullet location in Kennedy was 3.27ft.

The initial elevation used for the extant z313 headshot was 418.35, later officially changed to 418.48.

That change equates to a 2.37ft horizontal distance.

I suggest comparing that difference to the CE884 distance above used for extant z207-208-210.

Now, go back and watch the 3.5 minute segment that I suggested to Ian.

 

 

[Chris Davidson]

David,

I believe this is the answer to what we have been searching for:

 

[Michael Crane]

I would think that one would look for splices near frame 313 & a little beyond.And of course where there is the suspected limo stop.

[Chris Bristow]

18 minutes ago, Michael Crane said:

I would think that one would look for splices near frame 313 & a little beyond.And of course where there is the suspected limo stop.

If by splicing you mean some frames were removed it would not work. We can measure the limo moving forward relative to the background in each frame. Even taking one frame out would make the limo jump twice as far as the previous frames. The limo can't just double its speed in a single frame. Any alteration to remove the limo stop would require a matting process. But the matting process alone would create some fatal errors.

If you used a matte process to keep the background moving  in order to create the illusion that the limo did not stop you would have to make up for approximately 40 ft of travel. In other words you would have an image of the limo from frame 310 matched to a background from frame 370. That is a huge mismatch and the angle from Z to the limo would be way off when compared to the background. So would the shadows and so would the reflections of objects in the trunk. As an example you can see Moormon and Hill reflected in the trunk around frame 310  which would be shifted to frame 360 when they are nowhere in sight.

 To take out a limo stop you would need a combination of several techniques but there would be no splices.