Gary Oldman on JFK/Oswald

[Richard Booth]

In clips from the early 90s, Gary Oldman said about the MC rifle: "it was a piece of xxxx. he couldn't have done it. no way. no way."

Oldman had actually been in the window on the 6th floor of the TSBD and looked through a scope with a MC rifle and said that when he did that, he thought "no way. There is absolutely no way he could have done this."

Oldman's performance in JFK was brilliantly stunning. He became Lee Harvey Oswald, got his mannerisms and speech down very, very well. Evidently he met one of Lee's children (I don't remember which one) and spoke to her and he read a number of books, talked to people he knew him.

Well, today Oldman thinks differently. In this video he says he saw a documentary where it was supposedly shown that the single bullet theory was possible. I haven't watched this documentary because I know based solely on the Zapruder film and JFK's violent back and to the left motion that the shot came from the front right, because that is basic physics and it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt there was a gunman to the front of JFK. 

It's sad that Gary's mind was swayed and he no longer realizes what he saw with his own eyes and probably knew so well had to be true back then. 

 

 

[Guest]

He's brilliant, as is Kostner in the movie, the courtroom scene is brilliant "Do not forget your dying king...". The Mr X scene with Sutherland is also excellent. The bottom line is with celebs, most of them know the score, that speaking out can cut their capacity to earn, whether its JFK, child trafficking, 9/11 or whatever, life is good, don't rock the boat. Thats why those who do are that much more admirable. 

[Joe Bauer]

Even if one bullet hit JFK and Connally I don't see how this makes the JFK shooting any less a conspiracy.

Sometimes actors and entertainers do damage their marketability by taking controversial political stands public.

Roseanne Barr. Kanye West. 

Most purposely avoid expressing any political views publicly. Protecting their "made it" status in the most important mission of their lives once they have.

 

 

[Richard Booth]

11 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

He's brilliant, as is Kostner in the movie, the courtroom scene is brilliant "Do not forget your dying king...". The Mr X scene with Sutherland is also excellent. The bottom line is with celebs, most of them know the score, that speaking out can cut their capacity to earn, whether its JFK, child trafficking, 9/11 or whatever, life is good, don't rock the boat. Thats why those who do are that much more admirable. 

I agree: you speak out on this and it can impact your career...

He was very young when he was saying "There's no way he could do it. There's no way." 

I think he's older and wiser now. There is also the chance that he actually WAS convinced by that TV program which used computer animation to "prove" the single bullet theory. However, he has memory of being in that window and he knows for damn sure it's an impossible shot with the MC rifle. He knows it. 

Oldman is my favorite actor. I was blown away by how good he was at playing Oswald. He became Lee Harvey Oswald. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Richard Booth said:

I agree: you speak out on this and it can impact your career...

He was very young when he was saying "There's no way he could do it. There's no way." 

I think he's older and wiser now. There is also the chance that he actually WAS convinced by that TV program which used computer animation to "prove" the single bullet theory. However, he has memory of being in that window and he knows for damn sure it's an impossible shot with the MC rifle. He knows it. 

Oldman is my favorite actor. I was blown away by how good he was at playing Oswald. He became Lee Harvey Oswald. 

He was excellent, his cameo in True Romance was pretty epic too as the drug dealer/pimp. There aren't many who can immerse themselves in characters like that, Daniel Day Lewis, Joachim Phoenix, to name a couple of others, it's an exceptional talent. 

About the impacting careers, I think it's bigger than people imagine, I don't think it's just colleagues and directors turning their nose up because 'oh he's a conspiracy theorist', it's more than that. How many pro military movies are made, pro-security apparatus films with the hero saving the world or America, who funds them? I look at American Made, did the Colombians get Barry Seal? Works better if it wasn't a CIA hit.  Film is one of the most impactful forms if propaganda, we take it all in subliminally without questioning the narrative as it's just a movie. Oliver Stone's film has got as close to any on a wide scale audience to pointing the finger, but, I wonder if you could go one step further with a screenplay, film etc and still get it made, still get it advertised, still get media support and still get it in theatres etc. My guess is they'd make it dive just like a good book on the topic. It's the one truth that if it comes out, sets in motion a sequence of investigations that must then be done and at the end of those, whats left of governmental integrity and perception of the people we trust for security? Most people don't look at things this way but, it something like 22 Nov 63 can happen once, it surely can be repeated again and again in other forms, we'd be naive to think anything else. 

[Pete Mellor]

3 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

Most people don't look at things this way but, it something like 22 Nov 63 can happen once, it surely can be repeated again and again in other forms, we'd be naive to think anything else. 

Malcolm X, RFK & MLK in many forms repeated Dallas in just a few years.

Although proof is lacking,  killings like John Lennon's raise suspicions, especially when looking at Chapman's background, which could have similarities to Sirhan.

The 60's music scene, like film, was also 'a most impactful form of propaganda' that posed a threat to the establishment.

It is believed that CIA was involved with Operation Chaos and initiated the drug bust against the Stones.  Jimi Hendrix's manager was military Intell.

Yeah, most people don't look at these things that way.....the ones who do are wacko conspiracy theorists!

"Those that are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed by the masses."   Plato.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Pete Mellor

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Malcolm X, RFK & MLK in many forms repeated Dallas in just a few years.

Although proof is lacking,  killings like John Lennon's raise suspicions, especially when looking at Chapman's background, which could have similarities to Sirhan.

The 60's music scene, like film, was also 'a most impactful form of propaganda' that posed a threat to the establishment.

It is believed that CIA was involved with Operation Chaos and initiated the drug bust against the Stones.  Jimi Hendrix's manager was military Intell.

Yeah, most people don't look at these things that way.....the ones who do are wacko conspiracy theorists!

"Those that are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed by the masses."   Plato.

I was referring to later, those 4 are givens, all threats to the establishment. Bay of Tonkin, Oklahoma City, 9/11. A bloke released a book last year about Manson and pointed out the barrel that the government had Vincent Bugliosa over, due to an incident in his past. I don't know enough about Lennon or even Reagan's shooter, who seemed to know know the VP GHW Bush's and family well. We're perpetually expected to believe in coincidence and ignore mathematical probability. Almost every one of these events, when you take a close look, is very shady. All of this was forewarned by JFK and RFK in speeches, particularly ripples of hope, the writing was on the wall. The truth is, people are just comfortable enough not to really care. The fact people have a complete inability to think independently of a new network in 2020 or a google search result is a hell of a state for the human race to be in. But, as psychologists and philosophers alike have pointed out, most people seek comfort in conformity and submit to power, WW2 and what happened in Germany is a great example of that. It's easier to go with the flow. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Chris Barnard

[Kishan Dandiker]

20 hours ago, Richard Booth said:

I agree: you speak out on this and it can impact your career...

He was very young when he was saying "There's no way he could do it. There's no way." 

I think he's older and wiser now. There is also the chance that he actually WAS convinced by that TV program which used computer animation to "prove" the single bullet theory. However, he has memory of being in that window and he knows for damn sure it's an impossible shot with the MC rifle. He knows it. 

Oldman is my favorite actor. I was blown away by how good he was at playing Oswald. He became Lee Harvey Oswald. 

His youth, as well as his failing marriage with Uma Thurman whilst filming JFK, definitely contributed to his anger. It also in my opinion made his portrayal of LHO brilliant. The deleted scene of him talking 'beyond the grave' [39:21-42:00] shows how invested he was in the role. A proper old school character actor. 

[Joseph McBride]

The most moving moment in JFK for me is when Oswald, dying, slumps to the

floor of the police station in slow motion as Costner in VO is saying, "Who

grieves for Lee Harvey Oswald?"

[David Andrews]

The Oldman/Oswald bits start at about 18:45 in this deleted scenes reel, in case the American membership can't view the video Kishan posted:

Winner of the EdForum Palme d'Or for Best Oswald Ever.

Edited September 29, 2020 by David Andrews

[Kirk Gallaway]

Gary Oldman is a great actor. He was great as LHO. And yes, he was great in "True Romance" as well. I wouldn't get too upset about this. When he first got to the window and declared the shot 'impossible'. How is he in any way qualified to make a statement  like that? Does anyone know if he's an expert marksman? I think not.

I have no idea, but he might be  just be an emotional guy whose unduly influenced by computer simulations, by supposed "scientists". I hardly think he was bowing to any outside pressure. If his roles dried up, it's because the roles dry up for an aging character actor and old crazy man parts. That's the business.  I've had experience acting and have known some good actors. Sometimes an actor can bring such a thoughtfulness to a role, you think they're very intelligent people. Sometimes they are, but sometimes not.

"JFK" had a really good cast. I remember this time period and the prevailing opinions. Kevin Costner was super big box office at that time. He had just won "Best Picture" for "Dancing with Wolves".  Even though to me, he was a weak choice for the leading man. Didn't strike me at all as Garrison, didn't buy his New Orleans accent. But some of the supporting actors were previous Oscar Winners themselves.  There were a lot of grade "A"actors at different stages of their careers. Jack Lemon, Donald Sutherlin, Tommy Lee Jones, Walther Matthau, Kevin Bacon, Joe Pesci, Sissy Spacek, John Candy, Ed Asner. I bet if you asked any of these actors if they had fear upon taking the part or thought their careers suffered as result of taking their part in "JFK" they would overwhelmingly say "no". The only person who suffered was the maker of the movie, Oliver Stone.

As far as actors speaking out about "JFK". I know it's hard to understand here. I think there could be many in the cast that have suspicions about the JFKA, but as Joe says, they're not into controversy. It's more out of prudence than any fear. It's mostly they don't believe that strongly, and have too much going on in the careers to want to become  an expert, and have to defend their view is just too much of a pain in the a-s.

 

[Joe Bauer]

8 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

The most moving moment in JFK for me is when Oswald, dying, slumps to the

floor of the police station in slow motion as Costner in VO is saying, "Who

grieves for Lee Harvey Oswald?"

Interesting.

Will watch that scene again.

The many great and well known actor cast just added to the dramatic weight of the movie.

John Candy grabbed me with his Dean Andrews role. Great NO and Jive/Beat accent that didn't seemed contrived or overdone at all.

Jack Lemon, Donald Sutherland, Tommy Jones, so, so many great performances.

Kevin Bacon made me laugh. Sashaying about,  lines like ..."like a snake in the road"..."you ain't' never been f***ed in the a$$!"  " Cause he was Queea", "You're not a bad lookin man Mr. Garrison, we could have some fun..."

Rooker, Sanders, Jo Anderson and on and on.

Lolita Davidovich as Beverly Oliver...OMG! 

One of the sexiest looking actresses in a short scene ever imo.

Pesci as Ferrie?  Didn't work for me.

Not the biggest Kevin Costner fan ... but the film needed one of the top three leading men for main role star power. Good looks, honest face.  His New Orleans accent was terrible.

My recollection was that the real Jim Garrison didn't really have a New Orleans accent. Wasn't he raised in the upper Midwest?

My most emotionally touched scene or scenes?

Well, Costner's closing statement in the Shaw trial of course.

The loud Dealey Plaza bullet shots with no visual scene or dialogue lines.

The entire movie theater audience seemed deeply quieted and moved by them . So powerful to present them in that isolated way.

I think everyone's stomach and heart sank when those shots rang out. The power of that film moment was the most effecting as audience members knew that those shots represented the most tragic and reality changing moment in American Presidential history along with the Lincoln assassination. You envisioned in your own imagination the brutal slaughter those shots were inflicting. You pictured JFK's head exploding and bloody Jackie in breathless shock, horror and pain.

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[Guest]

9 hours ago, David Andrews said:

The Oldman/Oswald bits start at about 18:45 in this deleted scenes reel, in case the American membership can't view the video Kishan posted:

Winner of the EdForum Palme d'Or for Best Oswald Ever.

Great video and commentary from Oliver Stone that I hadn't seen before. Thanks for sharing guys. I really enjoyed Oliver Stone's PodCast on Joe Rogan a few months back, he seems so grounded about things, comes across as caring.