The first "missed shot"

[Chuck Schwartz]

I don't know if it was the first shot, but I believe the shot from behind the fence on top of the grassy knoll hit JFK in the right side of the temple and exited the rear left side of his skull. And, Jackie went to get the remains of his brain on the trunk of the limo. That is what I see when I see when I watch the Z film.  

[Jamey Flanagan]

I do believe there was at least one shot from the fence on the knoll. Whether it hit or missed I can't say but like the previous commenter, that right temple shot is probably the most likely wound to trace back to the grassy knoll area. And it was most probably some kind of explosive round not meant to exit and to cause as much damage as possible once it entered his head as it fragmented. Modern wisdom is that the throat shot probably came from the south knoll across the street. 

[Anthony Mugan]

Hello

I agree that there is a very convincing body of evidence for one of the first two shots hitting the road surface in the manner described. In addition to the eyewitness testimony the acoustic evidence indicates five shots in total and the most persuasive alignment of that evidence with the Zapruder film and medical evidence suggests the main injuries were caused by shots 3 and 4, with the later the head shot from the knoll.

It’s been argued that the high positioned wound at the back of JFK’s head that the HSCA took for an entry wound, combined with the fracture pattern in the skull argues for a severe blow to the rear of JFK’s skull prior to the Z312/3 impact. A ricochet fragment from this early ‘miss’ is quite plausible as the likely cause of that injury.

we need to keep shot five hitting the kerb further down Elm to get the fragment that injured Tague. That leaves the remaining shot from the first pair going into the grass.

By the way the spacing of shots 1-3 are too close together to all have come from the Mannlicher-Carcano yet all three correlate better with the sniper’s nest location than the knoll (the only locations tested acoustically, unfortunately). That implies three shooters, one on the knoll and two behind the president...

 

 

[Jamey Flanagan]

Not sure if it was the first missed shot or possibly a second in close proximity, but I agree with this one documentary (maybe The Lost Bullet, can't remember exactly) that a shot from the so called "sniper's nest" window pierced through a traffic light the limo passed under at that exact moment causing it to be way off course. I do not agree with their conclusion that it was Oswald firing however, at least not the Lee Harvey Oswald murdered by Jack Ruby. You can even see in the FBI reenactment video a small bullet sized hole in the corner of said traffic light as the reenactment limo passed underneath. Whether this went on to be one of the curb shot misses I can't say.

[Tony Krome]

On 5/16/2021 at 10:46 PM, Tony Krome said:

Re Jean Hill: Just how close would you have to be to see that white object sitting down on the seat, and see it long enough to guess that it was dog shaped.

Mr. SPECTER - How would you describe the position of his hands?
Mrs. HILL - He was sitting here [indicating] and Mrs. Kennedy---he was like this [indicating].
Mr. SPECTER - You are indicating the right hand on the left knee? 
Mrs. HILL - Yes.

 

This would be the view perspective for Jean Hill to see the white stuffed toy and hand on knee.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Tony Krome

[John Butler]

2 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

This would be the view perspective for Jean Hill to see the white stuffed toy and hand on knee.

Tony,

That is a really nice piece of work.  The top photo says that the p. limo was close to Jean Hill.  It must have been in the lane, left lane, that Hill described.  Hill Exhibit No. 5 must be fairly accurate in describing Jean's location as she related it to Arlen Specter, and must have shocked him that he couldn't change what she said.  Therefore, Top Secret was the only route to cover that up.

[Tony Krome]

3 minutes ago, John Butler said:

Tony,

That is a really nice piece of work.  The top photo says that the p. limo was close to Jean Hill.  It must have been in the lane, left lane, that Hill described.  Hill Exhibit No. 5 must be fairly accurate in describing Jean's location as she related it to Arlen Specter, and must have shocked him that he couldn't change what she said.  Therefore, Top Secret was the only route to cover that up.

The key is that Jean Hill knew there was something white on the seat between the Kennedys. She filled out her affidavit that afternoon, stating she saw something white, before she could have known that Jackie was in the possession of that white stuffed toy.

Jean Hill was right there, very close to the limo, yelling for their attention, so that Mary could take a photo;

Mrs. HILL - The President's car. We were standing on the curb and I jumped to the edge of the street and yelled, "Hey, we want to take your picture," to him and he was looking down in the seat---he and Mrs. Kennedy and their heads were turned toward the middle of the car looking down at something in the seat [Jackie's white stuffed toy she thought was a white dog as per affidavit]

Here is a possible scenario around the sign sequence in the Z-film; JFK was waving to the right, he brings down his arm as he and jackie momentarily look down at the gifts between them, Jean Hill yells out, the first boom was heard and a deflected bullet enters JFK's neck, then he raises both arms to his neck.

[Jamey Flanagan]

I had just thought of another possible scenario yesterday. A few posts ago in this thread I had mentioned how I believed, as I had seen in one documentary, that a shot from the so called sniper's nest had went through the bottom right corner of the traffic light. It had just dawned on me that this could possibly be the reason that his back wound was so shallow. Could it be that JFK was hit in the back first? Passing through the traffic light had decreased the velocity of the bullet so much that it only penetrated an inch or two into his back. This also allows the statement from Kellerman to work in which he says he heard JFK in his thick Boston accent say "My God, I've been hit!" or something to that effect. People often write this off because JFK can't say that if he has just taken a shot to the throat. Of course this all depends on the timing. We can't have that shot too early. You can see in the FBI reenactment video when the limo passes directly underneath that traffic light to where the said light is in the path of a bullet trajectory from the 6th floor window. In that sniper's nest view it is just before the tree limbs obscure the president. So, what frames of the Z film (or Z fraud) would this correlate to? I could see the hit to the back, followed by the throat shot within a second or two in that first volley of shots if the timing allows it. Just a thought. What do you guys think of the idea of the back shot being the first shot?

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Jamey Flanagan

[Mark Knight]

2 hours ago, Jamey Flanagan said:

I had just thought of another possible scenario yesterday. A few posts ago in this thread I had mentioned how I believed, as I had seen in one documentary, that a shot from the so called sniper's nest had went through the bottom right corner of the traffic light. It had just dawned on me that this could possibly be the reason that his back wound was so shallow. Could it be that JFK was hit in the back first? Passing through the traffic light had decreased the velocity of the bullet so much that it only penetrated an inch or two into his back. This also allows the statement from Kellerman to work in which he says he heard JFK in his thick Boston accent say "My God, I've been hit!" or something to that effect. People often write this off because JFK can't say that if he has just taken a shot to the throat. Of course this all depends on the timing. We can't have that shot too early. You can see in the FBI reenactment video when the limo passes directly underneath that traffic light to where the said light is in the path of a bullet trajectory from the 6th floor window. In that sniper's nest view it is just before the tree limbs obscure the president. So, what frames of the Z film (or Z fraud) would this correlate to? I could see the hit to the back, followed by the throat shot within a second or two in that first volley of shots if the timing allows it. Just a thought. What do you guys think of the idea of the back shot being the first shot?

 

Sounds quite plausible to me.

[Tony Krome]

14 hours ago, Jamey Flanagan said:

a shot from the so called sniper's nest had went through the bottom right corner of the traffic light

A lot of people under that traffic light area. The clanging sound of a super sonic round passing through metal would be notable.

[Sean Coleman]

If the then 10 year old Rosemary Willis was to be believed, the first shot stopped her run down Elm as she glanced toward the SE window circa Z190, maybe before. 

The young and innocent are often unexpectedly wise?

[Jamey Flanagan]

After reading this I went back and watched the Z film zoomed in on Rosemary Willis. Yes, she stops dead in her tracks well before JFK goes behind the sign and gets hit in the throat. At least seconds before. It was hard to pinpoint the exact frame but the 190 you suggested is a good guess although I would say it is just before that when you consider her reaction time. I would estimate maybe 186 or so if I had to make an educated guess. 

[Jamey Flanagan]

Found this online. Don't know when this statement from Rosemary Willis was taken, it didn't say. But here is her account.

“As the motorcade made the turn from Houston to Elm Street, they’d just gone a few feet when the first shot rang out. I didn’t know what it was, but I was looking for what I heard. And the pigeons immediately ascended off that roof of the school book depository building—that’s what caught my eye. The second shot that I heard came from behind my right shoulder. By that time the limousine had already moved farther down. And the next one, right after that, still came from the right but not from as far back—it was up some. Still behind me, but not as far back as the other one. And the next one that came was from the grassy knoll, and I saw the smoke coming through the trees, into the air, and fragments of his head ascended into the air, and from my vision, focal point, the smoke and the fragments, you know, everything met. I mean, there’s no question in my mind what I saw or what I heard.”

[Sean Coleman]

Her sister Linda 14, in her WC testimony said she was in line with the Stemmons sign and the car - ”…..the first shot came and then he slumped forward….” She wasn’t aware of the source of the shot. She implies the first shot (front or back) hit its target.

 

[Jamey Flanagan]

Notice in that Rosemary Willis quote she described 4 shots. She didn't say where she thought the first originated from other than seeing the pigeons fly off of the TSBD roof. The second one she described sounds more like the Dal-Tex to me. The third she says was not as far back but still behind her and up higher. Could this be the roof of the county records building or whatever where many have speculated a shot came from? The last one she said was from the grassy knoll. That would be the (or one of the two) head shot(s). I think everyone in the conspiracy angle pretty much agree that the throat shot was of frontal entry. But her testimony only accounts for the one shot from the front, a head shot. I think it all has to do with perspective and positioning. And I do think some shots were fired simultaneously or almost simultaneously and people thought it was the same shot. Now if the first shot came from the TSBD, pierced the corner of the traffic light slowing it down slightly and goes into JFK's back causing the shallow wound he probably would slump as the shot hit his back. This would've been maybe a second or two before the throat shot as he disappears behind the sign. Human perception and reaction would probably account for if you hear a shot and the president starts slumping and within a second or two he's grabbing his throat you would probably relate these two events together as the same shot. Seems rational to me. Just trying to fit some of these puzzle pieces together. I'll havta check out Linda Willis' statements next.