Secret Service participation in 1/6 coup attempt

[Benjamin Cole]

To me, it appears the mob that occupied the Capitol was unorganized, spontaneous, leaderless. Composed largely of marginalized people, many daft. In uncharitable nomenclature, "rabble and kooks." Misfits, many of whom posted their involvement online before and after Jan. 6. 

There is a possibility there were agent provocateurs in the crowd, either from right-wing groups, less possibly left-wing groups, or from some level of government. 

There is also the possibility some people in the Capitol, such as Mr Buffalo Horns, had associated with informants or infiltrators, and received funding to travel to DC. 

If there were government-agent provocateurs in the mob on Jan. 6, what are the odds a government investigation will uncover that fact? Who gave Mr Buffalo Horns $500 to travel to DC? 

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Steve Bannon planned a putsch, or regime-change operation? And I plan to be the pan-Galactic Jefe!

From Wiki, "In January 2018, Bannon was disavowed by Trump for critical comments reported in the book Fire and Fury,^[33] and left Breitbart."

 

And yet, Trump recently pardoned Steve Bannon for grifting, didn't he, Benjamin?  What do you make of that?

Was it just professional courtesy, or evidence of an ongoing working relationship between those two grifters?

Obviously, there are still many unanswered questions about the planning of the January 6th insurrection.

For example, who warned Republican Congressman Mo "Let's Kick Some Ass" Brooks to wear body armor on January 6th?  Brooks, obviously, anticipated violence at the Capitol.  Did Brooks and his Republican colleagues warn their Democratic colleagues or the Capitol Police about the anticipated violence?

What was Trump's associate Roger Stone, of Brooks Brothers Riot fame, doing with the Oath Keepers who attacked the Capitol on January 6th?  Was Roger Stone in contact with Trump or any of his close associates?

Also, regarding your suspicion about a possible "Deep State" plot involving FBI contacts with insurrectionists like Buffalo Horn guy, I have a different question.

To wit, if the FBI had informants in the ranks of the insurrectionists, why was Capitol security so piss poor on January 6th?  Shouldn't the FBI have warned Trump, Congress, and the Capitol Police that trouble was brewing?

Rather than a Deep State plot to undermine Trump, it seems like, if anything, there was a "Deep State" failure on January 6th to protect Congress and the certification of Biden's election.

[Matt Allison]

No need for "government-agent provocateurs", Ben.

You're going to have to face the reality of who these people were, sooner rather than later.

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/capitol-violence

Edited August 1, 2021 by Matt Allison

[Steven Kossor]

This thread is pulling pieces together and creating a plausible explanation for the pageantry displayed on 1/6 as a distraction to conceal a more diabolical process. Trump is looking more and more like a Trojan Horse that was propped up and pushed into play by oligarchs and fascists who used him to put policies and players into position that would further consolidate their power. Pretty sophisticated -- put "a basket of deplorables" on stage to cavort for the cameras while the levers of power are being manipulated deftly behind the scenes to keep the Horse in play. Ghastly.

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Steven Kossor said:

This thread is pulling pieces together and creating a plausible explanation for the pageantry displayed on 1/6 as a distraction to conceal a more diabolical process. Trump is looking more and more like a Trojan Horse that was propped up and pushed into play by oligarchs and fascists who used him to put policies and players into position that would further consolidate their power. Pretty sophisticated -- put "a basket of deplorables" on stage to cavort for the cameras while the levers of power are being manipulated deftly behind the scenes to keep the Horse in play. Ghastly.

Steven K.--

 

I probably disagree with you, but certainly hold an open mind.

My take is Trump was sui generis, mercurial, unpleasant, undisciplined, amoral---and yet not an national security-state apparatchik.  

Some of Trump's policies, such as doubling the standard deduction, and tightening the border against cheap labor flows, were beneficial to the lower half (income-wise) of the employee class. Trump by at least talking about cutting overseas military involvements, rattled the globalist ruling class. They want the US military as a global guard service for multinationals. 

Trump was an oddball, sort a lowlife character with lots of money. He is not from the globalist class. 

There is little doubt the establishment wanted Trump down, from even before he stepped into office.  Nancy Pelosi and Liz Cheney are joined at the hip when it comes to Trump and his supporters.  The old 'Phant party, and the Donks...are now twinned, on nearly all matters.

There is this reality: Trump can be a loathsome personage, and there can also national security state actions against him. The whole Russiagate farce. 

I am somewhat taken aback that many seem to approve of an authoritarian regime and panopticon state, elaborate censorship...as long as it represents their political party. 

But that is where we are today. 

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

No need for "government-agent provocateurs", Ben.

You're going to have to face the reality of who these people were, sooner rather than later.

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/capitol-violence

Matt A.

Would you expect an government investigation to reveal if there were government-agent provocateurs in the crowd on Jan. 6? 

After decades of dubious FBI reports on any and all political matters (the JFKA, for leaders), now you cite the FBI as an authority figure? 

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

And yet, Trump recently pardoned Steve Bannon for grifting, didn't he, Benjamin?  What do you make of that?

Was it just professional courtesy, or evidence of an ongoing working relationship between those two grifters?

Obviously, there are still many unanswered questions about the planning of the January 6th insurrection.

For example, who warned Republican Congressman Mo "Let's Kick Some Ass" Brooks to wear body armor on January 6th?  Brooks, obviously, anticipated violence at the Capitol.  Did Brooks and his Republican colleagues warn their Democratic colleagues or the Capitol Police about the anticipated violence?

What was Trump's associate Roger Stone, of Brooks Brothers Riot fame, doing with the Oath Keepers who attacked the Capitol on January 6th?  Was Roger Stone in contact with Trump or any of his close associates?

Also, regarding your suspicion about a possible "Deep State" plot involving FBI contacts with insurrectionists like Buffalo Horn guy, I have a different question.

To wit, if the FBI had informants in the ranks of the insurrectionists, why was Capitol security so piss poor on January 6th?  Shouldn't the FBI have warned Trump, Congress, and the Capitol Police that trouble was brewing?

Rather than a Deep State plot to undermine Trump, it seems like, if anything, there was a "Deep State" failure on January 6th to protect Congress and the certification of Biden's election.

W.--

I don't know the answers to all the questions you pose. If that clump of misfits on Jan. 6 planned an insurrection...I think we are safe. 

You keeping suggesting there is more to the story...behind the curtain, what do you suspect? 

AOC and others were asking some of the questions you are. What happened? The Capitol Police Department has a budget larger than the total budget of large cities. 

So....to get to the bottom of this, we rely on...Liz Cheney.  

Now, one might assume there is a tight relationship between the national security state and Cheney.

Do you have faith Liz Cheney will reveal to us the full and complete story. 

 

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Steven K.--

 

I probably disagree with you, but certainly hold an open mind.

My take is Trump was sui generis, mercurial, unpleasant, undisciplined, amoral---and yet not an national security-state apparatchik.  

Some of Trump's policies, such as doubling the standard deduction, and tightening the border against cheap labor flows, were beneficial to the lower half (income-wise) of the employee class. Trump by at least talking about cutting overseas military involvements, rattled the globalist ruling class. They want the US military as a global guard service for multinationals. 

Trump was an oddball, sort a lowlife character with lots of money. He is not from the globalist class. 

There is little doubt the establishment wanted Trump down, from even before he stepped into office.  Nancy Pelosi and Liz Cheney are joined at the hip when it comes to Trump and his supporters.  The old 'Phant party, and the Donks...are now twinned, on nearly all matters.

There is this reality: Trump can be a loathsome personage, and there can also national security state actions against him. The whole Russiagate farce. 

I am somewhat taken aback that many seem to approve of an authoritarian regime and panopticon state, elaborate censorship...as long as it represents their political party. 

But that is where we are today. 

 

 

After the first read of Stephen’s comment I was going to agree with him and then it suddenly occurred to me that it can mean two different things and i’d likely interpreted it differently to the way it was actually intended. 

 

“A distraction to reveal a more diabolical process.” 
 

 “ a Trojan Horse that was propped up and pushed into play by oligarchs and fascists who used him to put policies and players into position that would further consolidate their power.” 
 

Despite the potential of a coup being a fantasy IMHO (for reasons cited earlier ij the thread). The idea of it being used as a distraction and there being a more diabolical process behind that seems possible and, there is a consolidation of power. 
 

The psychological impact of that day seems massive, just amongst forum members here, they mostly think democracy almost fell and was lost. The impact of that will be the state cracking down on, profiling, surveilling, censoring and criminalising people who express dissent, and plan or carry out protests. This will be the reason. They are domestic terrorists now. In the world of ‘thought crimes’, where is this going to take us? Sounds like power is and will be consolidated, the state vs the people. 
 

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

I wouldn't be at all shocked if there were some infiltration by the FBI into the Trumpers on 1/6. And here's a shocker, I think most of the public expects the FBI to infiltrate right wing and left wing groups, as they do in a lot of the industrialized nations.. But the idea that the FBI fomented the 1/6 capitol riots in a false flag operation is about as paranoid absurd a notion as I could imagine.

I guess Ben's next obsession  we'll hear over and  over again is about "Liz Cheney and the Democrats". Liz Cheney  is allying with the Democrats solely to investigate the Capitol riots. Anybody who knows anything about U.S. politics knows that won't increase her National Security profile influence in a Democratic held Congress one wit. The Dems owe her nothing, and she's naively trying to salvage her party.

 Now we have record of Trump telling the DOJ to declare the election a "fraud', and 'I'll do the rest". So just  because over and over he's proven so inept at overturning a Democratically elected government,  we should just let him go?

But we know he's not going to jail , so we're going to pass it off on some of his lemmings but more vigorously some people who were trying to control those lemmings to "ineptly"try to turn over the government. But again,just like Trump, it doesn't matter how inept they were. 

*****

I don't totally trust Joe Biden in future foreign policy but I know nobody here was thinking Joe Biden would pull out of Afghanistan. It flies in the face of that whole phony narrative that U.S, Presidents are completely beholden to the MiC "deep state".

"Mr. Peace", record Defense spender Trump could also have done it, but he chose not to for whatever reason, including the last person who got his ear. Biden could have been given hell by his party that control both houses of Congress, but he knew he could easily get away with it. It's that simple.

They'll be a lot of reporting about possible atrocities by the Taliban of the people who were U.S, allies in their occupation and Biden will take the heat. To say all that heat is from the MIC/ MSM complex is the usual dummying down. Certainly some of it is, and some of it also reflects some more hawkish individuals and organizations but a lot of it is also because it's a news story,  and not reporting the inevitable consequences of a long standing U.S foreign policy debacle, and acting like it didn't happen  would be completely irresponsible. The overall effect is actually positive in that it adds to a already growing reticence  about future U.S. involvements.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Kirk Gallaway

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

After the first read of Stephen’s comment I was going to agree with him and then it suddenly occurred to me that it can mean two different things and i’d likely interpreted it differently to the way it was actually intended. 

 

“A distraction to reveal a more diabolical process.” 
 

 “ a Trojan Horse that was propped up and pushed into play by oligarchs and fascists who used him to put policies and players into position that would further consolidate their power.” 
 

Despite the potential of a coup being a fantasy IMHO (for reasons cited earlier ij the thread). The idea of it being used as a distraction and there being a more diabolical process behind that seems possible and, there is a consolidation of power. 
 

The psychological impact of that day seems massive, just amongst forum members here, they mostly think democracy almost fell and was lost. The impact of that will be the state cracking down on, profiling, surveilling, censoring and criminalising people who express dissent, and plan or carry out protests. This will be the reason. They are domestic terrorists now. In the world of ‘thought crimes’, where is this going to take us? Sounds like power is and will be consolidated, the state vs the people. 
 

 

Chris B.--

Certainly, the squalid and small events of Jan. 6, involving such lugubrious characters as Mr Buffalo Horns, have been magnified by a pliant and affiliated media into a Major Threat, and this justifies yet another round of police-state enlargement, fearmongering, and attendant censorship. 

My guess is the occupation of the Capitol was spontaneous, leaderless, and essentially unimportant, but has been seized upon by the national security state, the Donks and the old wing of the GOP to expand the security state---which is what happened right after 9/11 as well. Lessons, anyone? 

(Curiosity: Some on these pages assert 9/11 was a Deep State operation, and then was seized upon, a propaganda platform, to justify two Mideast wars. But those people assert 100%, with certitude, that 1/6 not a Deep State operation.) 

It is possible the 1/6 scrum was triggered by agent provocateurs, and surely this has happened before, and will happen again. I do not rule it out. 

The takeaway for citizens: Yes, remember there are domestic subversives and foreign threats. You should be afraid, very afraid. Nancy Pelosi and Liz Cheney say so. 

Stray thought: 

We have discussed the JFKA as a "regime change operation."  I now think that is a misnomer.

The JFKA was actually a "regime re-installation operation." The regime was already in place, in the form of the national security state and an affiliated media.  

This is why discussion of the Jan. 6 scrum as an "insurrection' is so unconvincing, and laughable.  Surely, no one can be serious that a few hundred gadflies and misfits would successfully overthrow the US government by physically occupying a building. 

But as we have discussed, Jan. 6 has become useful to the national security state, and affiliated media and political parties, as a propaganda platform.

Witness Liz Cheney. 

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Benjamin Cole
typo

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

My guess is the occupation of the Capitol was spontaneous, leaderless, and essentially unimportant, but has been seized upon by the national security state, the Donks and the old wing of the GOP to expand the security state---which is what happened right after 9/11 as well. Lessons, anyone? 

Yes, you got the patriot act, a mass loss of privacy and the the biggest data capture in history began. That term 9/11 became the justification for any overt action anywhere, just as long as the MSM kept it firmly in the public conscious. Of course anyone taking flights could never forget it. 

TBH, I haven't read too much on it, it looked like protestors breaking into a government building. I did a little refresher as to when thats happened before in the USA,  which was interesting. It looked like a rabble of the disenfranchised. Knowing America's past, it would not surprise me if plain close cops or FBI were in the mix. 

If we're holding down and outs for 6 months in solitary for breaking and entering or disorderly conduct, how far are we off Maoist China or the Soviet Union? What do genuine subversives get, waterboarding at GTMO? Oh wait, America already did that. 🙂  Its not even funny ... But, actually 9/11 made that acceptable, most of us heard about torture and didn't think it was the type of thing a despotic regime does, we thought it was necessary after 9/11. Thats the power of media. 
 

 

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

The JFKA was actually a "regime re-installation operation." The regime was already in place, in the form of the national security state and an affiliated media. 

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. He was expected to be the corruptible establishment guy, who would use power to further his and his family wealth. I bet the first person who went to call a favour from JFK, left thinking "this isn't how its supposed to work". They got a shock, they assumed he wouldn't betray his class. The more I read, the more I think the person who have the nod to kill JFK had a surname name starting with R ....  I tend to take Carroll Quigley's work as credible, he had no motive to invent, he was a serious historian and lecturer at Harvard, Georgetown and Brown. Bill Clinton's mentor too. 


 

 

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

But as we have discussed, Jan. 6 has become useful to the national security state, and affiliated media and political parties, as a propaganda platform.

It's another incremental step toward something Huxley & Orwell forecasted in different ways. 
 

[Matt Allison]

7 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Certainly, the squalid and small events of Jan. 6, involving such lugubrious characters as Mr Buffalo Horns

Ben- are you suggesting the videos and photos on the FBI page I linked are all fake? 

Having a real hard time taking much of anything you're writing lately seriously...

[Mark Knight]

Mr. Cole, IMHO your posts betray your claims of being open-minded. It appears you have already fixed upon a narrative and apparently will defend it until hell freezes over.

Of course, the 1/6 insurrection was executed by the "rabble." Had it been successful, I have zero doubt that Trump would have said that it reflected "the will of the people," and that it indicated that he should not vacate the White House...casting more doubts upon the election results.

To what do I refer when I said, "Had it been successful,..."? Two possibilities. One, the insurrectionists capture Pelosi, Schumer and Pence and execute them. Or two, the Secret service manage to spirit Pence away to parts unknow, possibly to a "tragic" plane crash or other alleged accidental death scenario.

In either of these scenarios, there would be no VP to certify the Electoral College results. Had that been the case, the Constitution has no "fallback" provision in the absence of a VP. So what happens then? LITIGATION. And there is no inauguration on January 20, because the case is yet to be decided. And in a worst-case scenario, Trump retains office because the situation is not only unprecedented in our history, but also heretofore unanticipated by the architects of the Constitution.

And America then becomes the biggest banana republic in the history of the world.

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

8 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

Ben- are you suggesting the videos and photos on the FBI page I linked are all fake? 

Having a real hard time taking much of anything you're writing lately seriously...

No, I am not suggesting all videos and photos are fake. I am suggesting that a government cannot be trusted to investigate itself. 

Witness the JFKA....

[Steven Kossor]

I do believe that the pageantry put on display in the US Capitol on 1/6 was probably a diversion intended to conceal (not reveal) a more diabolical production that was underway behind the scenes, which was thwarted by unexpected actions that couldn't be countered fast enough to get the production back on the rails (the JFKA plotters were a little more successful). I'm really interested in knowing exactly why Mr. Pence refused the ride offered to him; suspicion about the intentions of the SS players seems a viable hypothesis. The effort we've been expending in trying to figure out what really happened on 11/22/63 seems to have been time well-spent as we try to figure out what's happening to our country right now. We need to keep the events in focus and slice up the time line carefully so we don't overlook crucial events (the best way to thwart the confirmation bias) and minimize sidebar attacks on each other.